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 ★ LYN Yamaha 135LC Club V2 ★, ~The Power of Liquid Cooling~

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charge-n-go
post May 8 2009, 02:49 PM

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Same goes to YYPang valvespring. It is kind of sux. Mine is broken.

btw, kena accident. I throttle less than 1/4 and reached 90kph. Suddenly got 1 car come out take my lane while I half asleep.. Able to brake very quickly from 90kph to 20kph, but front tyre kenot tahan ady. Overloaded.

I let go the bike, roll on the road and jump back up to the roadside. The front fork and its mounting bent...

So, the last thing I'll do to engine is racing camshaft + racing valvespring + NGK iridium spark plug. No more big block, this one already too terrible, hahahaah.
charge-n-go
post May 9 2009, 10:04 AM

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thanks guys, I am ok. Now can ride bike ady. Front fork a bit problem but still can chase down some people in corners tongue.gif

80/80 tyre is good, I tied it on the front now. Pretty good stability and cornering. I bought at Bee Hock about RM80. Brand forgotten, haha.
charge-n-go
post May 10 2009, 02:53 PM

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TOKICO BM opened a new branch in Penang. It is near to Sunshine Bayan Baru. It is just opposite CIMB bank.
charge-n-go
post May 14 2009, 02:01 PM

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haha, whysomany, thanks for concern.
I do login to read, just that I really have nothing new to post tongue.gif

I just think... 135cc is dem enough, scared to go bigger block ady...
charge-n-go
post May 15 2009, 07:19 PM

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QUOTE(whysomany @ May 15 2009, 02:42 PM)
wah...charge....
you are reading d la..
then how is your bike now?
and are you still dare to go top speed?
some phobia like someone mentioned...
I dare to go a while only, not more than 5 seconds. COndition is, must be early in the morning when very few cars on the road, hahaha.
My bike is even better than before. The head turns better now, bcoz I modded abit when fixing it, haha.

Nowadays quite bored.. always rain, 90kph already fast enough. I scared liao blush.gif
charge-n-go
post May 15 2009, 10:57 PM

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QUOTE(Spayz @ May 15 2009, 08:16 PM)
90kmh at tlk bahang corners la rite???  brows.gif  brows.gif  brows.gif
*
dry road sure can, wet road is suicidal,hahaha


QUOTE(whysomany @ May 15 2009, 08:30 PM)
lol...
charge...can give me suggestion on my science fair???
*
take out ur LC engine and display. brows.gif
charge-n-go
post May 27 2009, 04:16 PM

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Stiffen the front fork for better braking grip, especially during emergency brake.
charge-n-go
post May 28 2009, 09:41 AM

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I bought fr Hen Motor @ Bayan Baru
charge-n-go
post May 31 2009, 03:30 PM

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QUOTE(alexei @ May 31 2009, 11:41 AM)
From fizik law, it is correct bigger radius, given the same applied force, it has bigger rotational friction. (I'm a physics degree grad, teacher, and tuition teacher). Haha.

The theory covers the relationship between the total areas of the brake pots (Note, its area not count), brake pads, masterpump, the rigidity of the brake hose and the property of the brake pads. The point of improvement is to look for the limit of the system and upgrade it.

Side note: Single pot is less prone to uneven brake force compared to multiple pots when in case one of the pot jams. My friend tyre tends to jam in wet because of this he crash in rain one time... mistakenly thought was the tire until sevice brakepump).

Changing the brake rotor is a start. But if you do not see improvements, that means rotor is not the limitation, and you need to change other things to do a stopee (Nose brake).

Change brake hose to steel braided, so it is less likely to expand and eat up the brake budget. Try this, wrap ur hands around standard brake hose, and press the brake you will feel it expand. Anymore you press also won't increase braking performance liao.

Change brake pads, I use Ferodo imported by Racing Boy. Ask for original ones, one set front about RM30~40. You can see more copper strands on the pads. Other good pads use metal strands so u can see silverly metal strands.

Other things, like someone said earlier is to have a stiffer suspension (so that tyre won't bounce like basketball when you hardbrake); and better tyres, of course.

Side note, race car change brake pumps, brake hoses, ventilated cross drilled rotor, calipers etc etc. They DO have bigger rotors. It's very similar and we're all limited by the size of our wheels... smile.gif
*
Nice info here dude.



Allow me to add on my experience in front brake tuning.

1. change to bigger disc ( i m using racing boy)

2. change to steel brake hose (rm150 per hose, rm50 dont work tat well on my bike, it still flex)

3. change to DOT5 brake oil (normal 1 can, but easily overheat. I go hill run for >1 hr, DOT5 is mandatory)

4. Brake pad, i forgot what brand i used.

5. Must stiffen front fork absorber, and add a stabilizer bar. Use 15W-20 fork oil, make it about 25% stiffer than stock. 20W-50 fork oil is too stiff bcoz (the oil is too not lean enuf), the bound and rebound SUX, I feel like riding on a horse. The traction sux too, bcoz front tyre can hardly grip on the road when going through uneven road (esp penang road).

6. ABS device (about RM100). <-- optional. I have not tried yet, dont know if it really helps to prevent front wheel lock. RM100 is way to cheap for a complete ABS system.. and I wonder how the locking sensor work when I m inspecting that ABS device... can't find any sensor actually, lol

Bullet 5 is very important. Using stock fork, your front tyre easily overload under heavy braking. Now, even under hard braking, the head is hard to dip, so the braking G is less too. I've tried a dual pot on Suzuki Shogun. The feel is rili sux0r, bcoz the head dips so easily that, I can hardly do 100% braking. It is especially dangerous on wet road.


bro are_keem
perhaps u can help to combine my experience above with alexei's brake tuning information and put it as guideline in our 1st page.

This post has been edited by charge-n-go: May 31 2009, 03:35 PM
charge-n-go
post May 31 2009, 07:06 PM

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QUOTE(saranjeevi @ May 31 2009, 04:07 PM)
nice info ther charge and alexei...  rclxms.gif as chrge said, dun use the rm 50 steel-braided hose... very flexy liao... hehe... used to get stuck between the fork when turning the handle..  mad.gif  hey charge, wat carb r u using...? plan to change carb oso.. but some say flatside is better for pikup(low-mid rpm) and roundslide better response for topspeed ( high rpm).... is tat true? do comment ya ppl.. notworthy.gif
I am using Keihin PE series. Round slide, but the needle is metal. It is the best carb I've tried so far (RM300 price range). There are better carbs of course, but they easily cost more than Rm500.



QUOTE(EngChee @ May 31 2009, 04:53 PM)
haha...charge, if install ABS system, then nid to upgrade CDi which have support ABS de..

if not i don think it works...

but now got this type of CDi meh...haha
Eh? How come we need CDI?
For car ABS, the sensor just need to sense if the wheels are slipped, and then start the anti-lock system (ie tapping the brake fast instead of pressing hard on it). So for bike, we need CDI to support this feature?


QUOTE(thunderbird @ May 31 2009, 04:59 PM)
Bought YSS monoshock today

2pcs ACME tyre, front and rear.

Almost Rm500 gone. sigh
*
Fuhhhh
charge-n-go
post May 31 2009, 10:50 PM

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QUOTE(saranjeevi @ May 31 2009, 08:27 PM)
changed in bee hock rite?? laugh.gif tat guy recommend to me as well... so hw's the response?? does it suit long distance 'kaki' like me?? ..hehe... scared it will be fuel drinking.. blush.gif
*
haha, drinks a bit more. long distance, stick to 24mm, better fuel consumption, and slightly higher accel + top speed.


QUOTE(Are_keem @ May 31 2009, 09:53 PM)
nite all. smile.gif

sorry guys, really busy this 2-3 days. yesterday got makan2 at my house, today forced to clean up the house. now got cold + flu (not those influenza A one lol tongue.gif ).
I've already updated the user list, and will update the 2nd post later. thanks for the great tips bro alexei and charge smile.gif
*
nites

QUOTE(EngChee @ May 31 2009, 10:33 PM)
hmm..

but as i know car ABS is control by ECU...

so i think if motor, should be control by CDI gua...haha laugh.gif
*
ECU controls air/fuel + ignition or whatever related to engine, Engine Control Unit mah.
CDI just controls ignition --> capacitance discharge ignition... js ignition.
charge-n-go
post Jun 1 2009, 06:11 PM

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For people with NOB1 SSS pipe. There are some drawbacks.

The best match for stock 135cc engine is still our stock pipe. Just gotta remove those catalyst, make the extracter 1/4" bigger and smoother, that's it. NOB1 SSS mid and tail is slightly oversized for 135cc engine. No matter how I tune, the high rpm power just doesn't come.

I suspect the pipe doesnt have enough pulling power at the tail (smaller diameter allows higher gas velocity). I asked my sifu and he has verified it. Well, I don't know how to listen to exhaust note to diagnose, but pro can use ear to 'hear' powerband, hahaha.

I am going for 150cc soon. NOB1 SSS will be a good match then. rclxm9.gif


sidenote: camshaft machine in BeeHock isn't ready yet. My custom cam still pending sad.gif

This post has been edited by charge-n-go: Jun 1 2009, 06:13 PM
charge-n-go
post Jun 1 2009, 09:05 PM

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saranjeevi, are u using 150cc now?
charge-n-go
post Jun 1 2009, 10:42 PM

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I am trying out other racing blocks. No plan for FZ block, as it doesnt have enough compression.

We can meet up when the cam machine is ready, haha
charge-n-go
post Jun 1 2009, 10:48 PM

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wider pipe? how much wider?
charge-n-go
post Jun 1 2009, 11:06 PM

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I am going for 57mm block and piston. Rm150.
I already got my racing cam design ready, just waiting for his machine. hehehe.

will do cylinder head porting as well.
charge-n-go
post Jun 2 2009, 09:34 AM

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QUOTE(TryX @ Jun 1 2009, 10:57 PM)
Charge what u think about Nob1 SSS, on stock engine??? please tell us ur experience ?? is it advisable for stock bike to install Nob1 SSS any extra power? :Peace And Go
It is adding torque from low - mid rpm. top rpm power remains the same. So you will get better acceleration. As saranjeevi said, the bike feel very ringan.


QUOTE(samba18 @ Jun 2 2009, 12:48 AM)
So my next upgrade will be my engine.

Will be changing a few items such as:

-TZ Carb (to pair with my 60mm block)
-FX125 custom head + Valve's
-Racing Cam

plus one more i forgot what rod is it. Its in the engine one haha.. to take away the knocking noise.
haha, where do u get FX125 custom head and valve??



QUOTE(saranjeevi @ Jun 1 2009, 11:41 PM)
wow.. ur design huh...? cool man... so wats ur cam profile like...hi,lo, or bit of both... wats ur design like?? mind to share?? wat brand of block u hv in mind?? hmm.gif and charge, m thinkin of the 3bond thing instead of thelower gasket.. wats ur opinion?? take ur time ans all the questions ye... hehe notworthy.gif
For lower gasket, I still keep them. Using 3bond basically increases the compression ratio. I already have my cylinder head shaved off 0.6mm, compression already increased wink.gif

I dont know what brand is BeeHock selling. Just want to try out 150cc, haha. my cam profile, i focus on all band power. I like a FAT power band, hahahah. So the camshaft is a bit aggressive I would say. Put a lot of stress on the valve and valve spring.

some basic parameters:
stock:
IN duration - 225 deg
OUT duration - 275 deg
IN-OUT overlap - 30 deg

my design
IN duration - 245 deg
OUT duration - 275 deg
IN-OUT overlap - 50 deg
increase IN lift by 1mm, increase OUT lift by 0.5mm

It will sacrifice torque below 3000rpm (which we seldom use for do full acceleration). Torque from 3000rpm - 5000rpm should be similar to stock, but 5000rpm and above will increase.

I would say, from mid range to high end, the engine response and power will be much better, while maintaining the mid-low rpm torque.

This post has been edited by charge-n-go: Jun 2 2009, 09:39 AM
charge-n-go
post Jun 2 2009, 02:08 PM

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QUOTE(saranjeevi @ Jun 2 2009, 12:10 PM)
wow... tats awesome man... do u thnk the 3bond wil b able to withstand the heat?? coz m scared it wil giv way.. do u thnk its safe... coz d guys in t135 r giving gud remarks on it...  rclxub.gif
*
haha, then you can listen to t135 ppl. I have no experience in it, really cannot comment on 3bond.

QUOTE(samba18 @ Jun 2 2009, 01:04 PM)
Charge: My foreman says he uses ori fx125 head, then he send it to somewhere in hatyai for them to custom something. I also forgot what he told me hahaha.. anyway i'll find out the exact thing and let u know.

Im not that pro in this interior thing hehe.
*
ohh. Actually we can modify LC head too. BeeHock can get an exact LC head with much bigger valve. The valve angle is superb, about 30 deg I would say. Cost about RM500.


QUOTE(alexei @ Jun 2 2009, 11:43 AM)
Wow, looks like the next thing to do is vtec for LC. Serious.

Questions:
1. By increasing valve lift by 1mm, did you have to machine the block too?
2. IN duration is increased before TDC or after BDC? Based on the overlap calculation, my guess is you increased it before TDC. This would impact torque performance because more waste gas is being recycled.
3. Any plan to modify OUT duration? smile.gif This would be similar to powervalve in providing higher RPM and hence a 2nd powerband.

What's the topspeed now? smile.gif
Someone about 50+kg tried on my bike and able to hit 170kph. I can only do 160kph for a while... damn scary.

answers:
1. I already machined the piston. Got a deeper valve pocket.

2. perhaps I can give more detail cam spec.
stock
IN open -15 deg before TDC
IN close +30 deg after BDC
IN center +100 deg after TDC (not very sure)
OUT open +100 deg after TDC
OUT close +15 deg after TDC
OUT center +70 deg after BDC

my design
IN open -25 deg before TDC
IN close +40 deg after BDC
IN center +110 deg after TDC
OUT open +90 deg after TDC
OUT close +25 deg after TDC
OUT center +80 deg after BDC

basically OUT shift by 10 deg in overall. The limitation is actually at the intake. We don't have enough air/fuel mixture going into the cylinder at mid-high --> high rpm. So my idea is to increase the IN duration, give it 1mm extra lift and then increase the overlapping a lil. Exhaust duration is good enough, js increase 0.5mm lift will do. Well, these are all theoretical estimation, gotta fine tune again using butt dyno, hahaha. And yes, I really hope to get some VTEC feel on LC rclxm9.gif

AFAIK, Yamaha R15 / FZ150i cam is even more aggressive. It is a 270 IN / 270 OUT cam, with 60 deg overlapping. Mine is only 50 deg overlap,
I have tried a Genuine Yamaha racing cam, which is VERY VERY aggressive. 330 IN / 290 OUT, with 110 deg overlapping. The high end power simply R0X! low end sux like shit la, hahhaha.
charge-n-go
post Jun 2 2009, 05:44 PM

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QUOTE(alexei @ Jun 2 2009, 05:29 PM)
Charge,
What steel you use to mill the cam? Or BeeHock provides that?
This is where I'll have to stop asking technical questions, and find out more about calculating compression ratio, ignition timing etc after all the mods you have done.

What is the idling RPM? My guess is slightly higher than stock?
*
haha, material supplied by BeeHock. I have no idea on the material at all. He has a friend who was once an engine designer. He has a list of chemical, material and other necessary stuff for Bee Hock. We just need to send in the specification, and they'll do the dirty jobs tongue.gif

The best shop I found on engine mod is Bee Hock at the moment. I've done my port and polish, tapette settings and carburetor calibration there. CDI firing angle is done there too.

And yes, my idling is slightly higher than stock.

Hey, are u riding an LC? laugh.gif



QUOTE(saranjeevi @ Jun 2 2009, 05:34 PM)
tat yamaha genuine racing cam is considered high cam i thnk... because the degree is so high.. 330/290  shocking.gif but as for standard LC n FZ.. its still considered low cam rite bro?? so it gives more low end power rite?? smile.gif
*
It is a SUPER HIGH cam, hahaha.
LC actually js normal cam, focus on mid range torque only.
FZ is slightly higher, as the max torque is at 7000rpm.

max torque at 7000rpm for me is sweet, good enough. I just want the max power at 9500rpm --> 10,000rpm (FZ's 8500rpm). I'll have a wider powerband then rclxm9.gif

This post has been edited by charge-n-go: Jun 2 2009, 05:51 PM
charge-n-go
post Jun 5 2009, 08:20 AM

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yes, this is the one to shave. I really found no where to shave in ur 1st pic.
I shave the cylinder head though, about 0.6mm.

This post has been edited by charge-n-go: Jun 5 2009, 08:21 AM
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