after browsing this low yat forum, whoever have not buy any insurance yet , i can say that chew-ronnie is the most outspoken person in the insurance details and info regarless of which company he represents. I have to give him my salute for being a kind, patient and tremendous effort to reply even a blood coughin question i setup in this forum.

I would love to see more agents and most importantly sincerity to deal with human beings who know nuts about the insurance trick or treat. there's a lot of policy option that could make any layman to go bankrupt or lapse their policy if they buy wrongly from the insurance agent.

I had came across this 4 terms which can interwine and causing many people to put their money in the wrong basket and they have to pay for it due to their lack of information and understanding about the money.

1) Saving
2) Investment
3) Hospitalization and surgery
4) Life Protection, Accidental and Critical Illness

Than don't forget that the plot gets thicker when you buy Family Plan vs Individual vs Child ....

So , now if you are clear of what you intent to purchase and also your ability to pay for it, than you will get a very clear cut policy without having to lose it out if something happen.
If any policy binded with a child, i also figure out the cost of buying it individual may be cheaper than associate with your child since he/she is eligible for lower premium due to their age after that. If binding with your age, the premium seems to be higher too. Correct me if im wrong.

Than come to the part where you want to choose for the company or agents.
After reading so much about the opinion here, i think more agents should speak out sincerely and seek information without having to be narrow minded of your competitor. if your product is not the best in the market, reveal it out and identify , rectify it.

I discover these companies seems to be favourable by some of you but let me rank it base on the times i saw people commented in this forum

1) Allianz
2) Ing
3)Pru
4)AIA

Quite unbelivable insurance policy is the one produced by AXA AFFIN with no lifetime limit but AIA also have that now with their optional premium to over ride the lifetime limit.

Im not very sure where or how strong Allianz position itself as one of the insurance company as books did gave away their cons when policies provided by bank may have a very different way in handling insurance claim and agents are not as professionals compare to the others like pru and aia. they are bankers and administration on claims handling is a question mark too.

alliance and Ing seems to be the perfect choice for those who want a policy that protects the buyer and fulfill their promises on hospital claims and surgery but their let down is in the low limit for cancer and dialysis treatement. further more , renewal claim is some more up to their discretion (true or false). Annual limit is quite low too. But they seems to be pretty covered on everything. I wish to see more details on their plan if anyone has a copy of the the information and their strength as compare to other.

will continue again .

Thank you for your comments and really appreciate that.

On your question on binding an adult and a child, the most important feature is that it covers the adult from death/tpd or critical illness and this in turn getting the insurance companies to waive all future premiums. This is definitely a lil more expensive than buying a policy under the childs name. There is another option to cover this, where the parents shall buy a larger sum assured on their life/critical illness policy so in the event that they are diagnosed with either one of this, the beneficiary will get the insurance payout to pay off the childs policy. So make a balance which is cheaper. Every single sen counts. Again either one of this has its pros and cons.

Allianz is an insurance company but Alliance is a bank, so i hope u dont get this wrong. In M'sia, Allianz is only dealing with insurance be it general or life, so claims procedure and handling are all the same as PRU or AIA as u mentioned.

I dun understand y u say Allianz and ING has very low limit for cancer and dialysis treatment? Have u really seen these 2 companies brochure or u hear what people say? Renewal claim? What u mean? U mean guaranteed renewability? Allianz guarantee renews its policy holders card up to age 80. I believe this is applicable to ING, PRU, GE and AIA as long as the cards are attached to a life policy. Do i answer ur queries here?

I'll attached an Allianz med brochure here. Check this out yourself, and if u still say the limits are low, then its very hard to satisfy you unless u get a card that covers u internationally from other countries. Again u bear more cost.



Attached File(s)
 MediCover__AZ0110.pdf ( 1.01mb ) Number of downloads: 260

Even you think that it is impossible policy. . Anyway this is my opinions

1 ) Budget is too low to cover all your needs from number 2-11

2 ) This can be done. maybe take up a whole life policy or ILP which can covers up to age 100

3 ) This is very difficult. Some of riders and life policy insurance charges will increase due to age

4 ) Many insurance have no co-insurance such as AXA,MAA and many more

5 ) if you take up medical card sure have limit. Therefore attach another critical illness rider with high coverage which can cover all this cost if you strike this illness

6 ) All medical card got annual limit. Only Prudential have this Annual Limit Waiver but still the have lifetime limit
which people should carefully look in to.

7 ) This can be attach and some medical card already provided it.

8 ) I have few client which doctor visit them more than 1 time a day but still the insurance company paid full
the total bill. This is because some hospital, billed the fees lump sum with room &board plus other charges
together. So its hard for the insurance company to tell. Normally they will just pay.

9 ) What medical report? When applying for insurance?

10) This benefits normally attached to a medical card.

Regards

This post has been edited by Brother Nick: Apr 18 2010, 02:48 PM

Please quote which insurance plans of AXA or MAA that has total Nil Co-Insurance. Otherwise, your statement might be false based on what I know about them. They both have co-insurance kicks in when room is upgraded or exceeding the plan one has purchased.

And about the Doctor report. That's the form filled up by the doc for one to submit their claims.

thank u brother nick, so far i know only AIA have the extra MedicPlus which have to buy separately to increase the limits of dialysis and cancer treatment. Also waive the annual limit like you said.. Co-insurance begins after a certain amount from RM 22K above. So for normal treatment like Dengue, co-insurance never exist which is quite good .

medical report is probably report we ask from the hospital after discharge i guess. Is the report provided or have to pay to the hospital? This is suppose to be kept by us and human resource i guess.

What i like about Allianz is
1) no co insurance payment
2) dialysis and cancer treatement is as charged to the bill

What's their policy for renewal ? up to 80 years?
If we had claimed before for a few times before , will Allianz allow the renewal?
Does the plan of the room rate is also the monthly premium payable or have to base on the schedule accordance with age?



This post has been edited by hackwire: Apr 19 2010, 10:31 AM

most med cards require us to pay this RM50 to the doc who completes the form/report, the original copy goes to insurance co. for them to process your claim. Some doc may charge higher as far as I know...


And again, the logic of 'give peanuts get monkeys' applies.. Allianz is good, but expensive(lowest) based on the sum coverage per RM1 you paid. This is based on a comparison based on more than 10 med plans (all NON ILP related).

This post has been edited by numbertwo: Apr 19 2010, 10:35 AM

Allianz (Linked to ILP), guarantee renew up to age 81. Allianz guarantee renews regardless of how many times u claim. This med card is attached to an ILP policy to its a month to month payment basis.

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Added on April 19, 2010, 10:58 amHi,

What i we mentioned above are ILP based med cards. I strongly dun recommend Allianz's stand alone card because it has a lot of limitations and of cos expensive as u've said (compared to GE's Great Medicare 2).

So only go for Allianz Medcard which is attached to ILP or Traditional Life. Do NOT buiy an ALlianz stand alone.

This post has been edited by chew_ronnie: Apr 19 2010, 10:58 AM

Co-insurance and co-payment are two different things.

Co-insurance means cost sharing between you and the insurance company. You need to pay a certain percentage of the medical bill (for example, 10%), and the rest will be paid by the insurance company.Not all benefits covered are subjected to co-insurance. Benefits subjected to co-insurance vary widely among insurance companies.

Common benefits subjected to co-insurance include:

Hospital Supplies & Services
Intensive Care Unit
Day Care Benefit
Surgical Fees
Pre-hospitalization Treatment
Post-hospitalization Treatment
Home Nursing Care
Outpatient Cancer Treatment, etc.

Co-payment is the mandatory cost sharing which is 20% of the total medical bills. You have to bear it if you are warded at a hospital room which is higher than your eligible benefit. For example, if the H&S insurance you purchase covered RM150 per day for a hospital room, but you choose to stay at a room which is costs RM200 per day.


And to answer you question : AXA Medical Card ( Medical Card ) don't have co-insurance

This post has been edited by Brother Nick: Apr 19 2010, 12:03 PM

what is the best option for a baby and parents who are not covered with H&S . Parents already have life policy

1) buy H&S standalone + life policy with 33 critical illness. (not a linked policy) ( for baby only) Parents buy their own.

2) buy H&S linked with life policy + 33 critical illness (as riders)

3) buy a H&S Family plan (husband + wife + children included ) and buy a separate life policy with 33 critical illness for baby only

4) buy a male or female + baby H&S policy and a life policy with 33 critical illness for baby.


I know some agents wants parent to take up family plan or even the investment linked for their commision purpose. I afraid to pay more for my child since usually child premium is not as high as adult.
Will buying a separate plan for them will save cost?
Whats the pro and cons?

This post has been edited by hackwire: Apr 19 2010, 01:09 PM

It all come down to your budget. How much you willing to put aside and then try to find an insurance company which can match your needs. Prioritize is the key if in budget. If I'm the father I would normally rank this way

1 ) Medical Card ( Hospitalization bill is huge and will effect my income if my child admitted )
2 ) Education Fund ( For future )
3 ) 36 Critical Illness ( its hard for kids to strike one of the 36 illness )

Different people different needs. Anyway to answer your question, if you want complete coverage for your baby only .... then opt for the No.2 Option and dont forget to add payor benefit.

This post has been edited by Brother Nick: Apr 19 2010, 01:25 PM

My opinion as follows.

2 will be the best choice. Remember to get a protection policy 1st then only an education policy. This will definitely save u bucks if the child would to get admitted especially we are living in a world of dengue and H1N1. Then after that only plan on the education things. Because an education plan will not pay your hospital bills!

If u get a standalone card, remember to get a card with guarantee renewability!

It is regardless of what plan u choose (whether the agent recommend or what) the most important thing is get the right thing for coverage/protection. So the best Critical Illness plan is to link the Critical Illness with the Life portion meaning the policy will pay the sum assured when C.I or Death comes. This will save u some bucks.

Either way there are pros and cons.

There is no difference between co-insurance and co-payment. What is more important to know for consumers like us is : when that kicks-in, you have to start sharing the BILL!

I was asking if you could name the plan of the AXA medical card. Here i'm quote AXA SmartCare Optimum:

If the Insured Person is hospitalized at a published Room & Board
rate and Room Category which is higher and better than his/her
eligible benefit, the Insured Person shall bear 20% of the other
eligible benefits described in the Schedule of Benefits.


So, if you know any of AXA medical plan that does not incur Copayment or Co-insurance, do alert us here..

Brother Nick,

is this the AXA med card u mentioned? Got it from AXA's corporate website. http://www.axa-affin.com/axa-affin/axa-aff...8Apr2010%29.pdf

Everything is good except the out-patient cancer and kidney dialysis treatment. 20k to 60k per lifetime? This is too little considering todays rate. If this out -patient treatments are no limit, then this is the card to buy.

Also would like to know whether this is a stand alone or a rider, coz from what i see its a rider.
Pls advice.

Thanks

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Added on April 19, 2010, 3:32 pmnumbertwo,

This is my humble opinion. Just for sharing.

I know your concerns on buying a med card - concern of paying hospital bills be it large or small amount.

IMHO,
A card with co-insurance - have to pay a % no matter what.
A card with co-payment if exceed the room limit - still can control provided that don't stay in a room more than eligible. So get a card that have a room rate of RM400 to Rm500 a day coz a standard single room is at the range of RM250 toRM270.

Is this a good choice of choosing a card? U can give me ur opinions. Thansk

This post has been edited by chew_ronnie: Apr 19 2010, 03:32 PM

My opinion is , if a card has a co-insurance, irregardless whether by default or only upon upgrade of room cat, we have to say 'It has a co-insurance' clause, no way we should tell client that it has no co-insurance becoz there is no co-payment.. hopefully u got my point too .

Yes, we can always max out the room category and purchase the highest, this is the way to have a peace of mind as nowadays, getting into a 2 bed-room in goverment hospital is also a problem!

Now i got ur point. U are right in this sense. So i guess every single card in M'sia has charges be it co-insurance or co-payment. Make sense? hahaha

Yes a 2 bedded room in gov hosp or private are also normally full! My experience in doing claim, so another option is to get a card with a wider range of panel hospitals. This will at least be a alternative solution to it.

thanks ronnie, so u advise to buy child policy as separate from the family which will be cheaper isn't it.

than i shall proceed with child H&S with the life term policy. Can you quote me please and email me the info and details of Allianz pls.

thanks.

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Added on April 19, 2010, 4:36 pmthank u brother nick, at least i can see the reason y i shouldn't buy those family plan now since our age range also affected the premium of our child policy and hospitalization fees.

Pru dential family plan had quoted us above RM 2K and after seeing another plan MAnulife made for the child , we figure out how cheap the kids medical card fee is.

i still plan to look for something that is renewable every year in contract terms.



This post has been edited by hackwire: Apr 19 2010, 04:36 PM

chew_ronnie,

Yes. that's the one. As for the outpatient cancer and kidney dialysis treatment it is per lifetime. For us, we normally asked the client to add 36 critical illness rider if that is their concern. This medical card is a rider and can be bought with minimal RM5,000 term life policy which is not that expensive. For example female kids age 3 is only RM 40.40 for a RM100,000 and RM5,000 term



numbertwo,

I disagree, this is because the co-payment can be avoid if the customer stick to the room and board that he/she entitled. While co-insurance is something you can't avoid. It's the agent to make the client understand so that they dont need to pay the co-payment.

This post has been edited by Brother Nick: Apr 19 2010, 05:20 PM

Avoidable or not, is not something under your control. Go do a check on a regular private hospital let say during a pandemic, maybe at the children ward, you will be amazed what room categories are left...

So, unless your client has chosen the max room&board plan, otherwise please tell your client AXA is not totally free from co-insurance, tat's the point i want to emphasize.

Hackwire,

My take is first to determine as to what is the objective and then proceed to find the suitable products to match your needs based on your budget. I would suggest you to do the same. It's good to bear in mind that insurance is a financial instrument that can create either instant or gradual wealth while granting protection concurrently.

Family medical plans could be slightly more pricey than individual ones. Also ensure you attach payer benefit riders if you're buying life or saving products for your kid. This might cost you a bit more but it would ensure your kid the future you want for them.

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Added on April 19, 2010, 8:30 pmAs far as I'm concerned, co-insurance is here to stay. This is a good way to ensure medical insurance is not abused by some quarters.

During such as H1N1, insurers have come forward to absorb the quarantine ward charges. Most other times there'll absorb up to RM50 in additional room charges. I have checked on this and confirmed it.

However, for intentional room upgrade when there's no pandemic breakout, I don't think it's fair to others in the insurance pool fund to absorb the intentional over costs on an individual. In my opinion, it's like you paid for a Kancil but want Perdana delivered instead. Analogically speaking, assuming A, B & C pays for Kancil. A & B gets their Kancil while C gets Perdana delivered to him. Do you think this is fair to A & B?

*No offense intended to Kancil owners .


This post has been edited by HHalphaomega: Apr 19 2010, 08:30 PM

HHalphaomega , thanks to you for sharing such detail. I take my time to look for the best for my child as once i sign the paper , i have to commit till the end.

i think many agents out there failed to create a checklist to identify the needs before they proposing a schedule or quote which fail to explain a lot of things.
this help im getting here really an eye opener now.

now have understood alot of jargons and insurance language which were once like a south somalia accent to me... haha.

will take a break and than comeback with more questions and comparison before i pick the right one.