He meant to have good days ahead. (for us poor working folks)
He doesn't realise for ordinary folks 'Holidays' have a different meaning from his.!!!

Bobby C,
IMHO You are reading too much hope into the press report.
The gist of the press report is ADDITIONAL NEW OPERATORS, which is the reason training is to be provided.
Nothing in the report allude to giving the amts out to folks wanting to move their shoplot BHs to agri land.
Since these are all new operators (who knows next to nothing abt the biz), it will be obvious that everything will be prescribed, including in my cynical thinking even a standard building (which is the bulk of the capital outlay)
If one has the inclination to, it will all be traced back to a favoured supplier, contractor whatever.
Agro Bank is not a pure commercial bank (it was formerly Bank Pertanian), profit is not the objective of it's existence.
It's merely an cash dispenser of tax money in the name of eradicating poverty thru agri related activities.
Every few decades or so it has to morph into a different name so that folks do not identify the stench associated with it.
Writing abt it is threatening to bring my breakfast out onto my keyboard.

1GP...
The bulk of the requirements in 1GP came from the PBT, as they have jurisdiction over the land and the premises.
PBTs come under state matter as such have their own state legislation.
Licenses for housing of swiftlets and harvest of nest comes from either Perhilitan or Forestry for Pen M'sia/Sabah and S'wak respectively.

When one talks abt both Sabah & S'wak, A peninsular M'sian tend to forget that their respective Immigration still treat us like foreigners.
Try staying beyond 3 mths. It's easier to get a PR in Australia then in either of these 2 states.
I recall a Peninsular M'sian is not allowed to own any land in S'wak cos' not a local, either that you need to marry one.
It's a little easier in Sabah, but ownership thru a company.
Just my recollection; as at a point in time, I did consider moving there for good.

If not for the immigration nuisance, both places are great places to be.
Folks over there are beautiful people, they ought to be examples of how Malaysia ought to be.
Maybe their immigration is right after all, keeping BAD folks frm Peninsular OUT.
(or refine their Immigration rules and only keep racist politicians out at the risk of a shrunken head)
The 2 states still have a major portion of their natural environment intact.
Just for discussion, not to discourage anyone.

Maybe this fren of yours has the latest on the immigration nuisance.
My info may be out of date.

This post has been edited by Cergau: Mar 15 2010, 06:11 PM

Shoo them away..not enough. Better be more than that BUT w/o harming them.
Remember 1 of the requirement is 1 frm Perhilitan/Forestry to house them?
Else they can charge you for housing the swiftlets w/o license as well as causing harm to a protected specie while trying yr darnest not to house them.

"Like to see Perhilitan going after rats, wild creatures also mah"

Pembetulan dari Perhilitan......memang tikus liar...bila gua balik rumah buta malam ...isteri pun gila liar
Kedua dua ini liar tapi domestik!!!!
bela isteri kena lesen, tikus tak payah-lah

burung walet

Bobby C,
I think you have a very good point there and I feel can be taken a step further.
There are NGOs who care abt the old buildings that gives certain places their charm.
They work with the Culture ministry to have them gazzetted as heritage buildings and such.
More often then not, once restored and the money for conservation runs out, it will deteriorate until taken notice of by these dedicated volunteers.
Continuous funding for upkeep will be an never ending problem. Charging entrance has never really worked.

IMHO, you shd google for them and check out their sites and test the water there.
If both are sincere I am very certain a solution can be found.
They get to keep these buildings and the owner get to utilise it economically and contribute to the upkeep.

Not only the gazzetted heritage buildings, there are plenty of these nice looking old buildings these NGOs would like to conserve but the govt doesnt have so much money to preserve and conserve them. Working with these NGOs are so much better then fighting alone against greedy developers who can convince short sighted PBTs with the magic word 're-development'. To the PBTs redevelopment is a much neater solution than conservation.
I can picture, BHs ate top and selling EBN to tourist on the grnd floor.
If you recall there was this mention in the DRAFT 1GP that was posted here.
Also abt repainting a std color for tourist attention.
The idea is in place but the details needs a lot of tidying up. So there are govt folks putting their thinking caps on for the 1GP.
If only they will share the draft with us and we provide feedback.
I think the main fault (per DRAFT 1GP) lies with treating all premises as similar.
If they expand the guidelines with finer details with suitable categorising of shoplots the 1GP can be made to work for everyone.
BUT I would like to end with a caveat... there will always be delinquent operators. I have no sympathy for them. These delinquent ones are giving the industry a bad name. It will take a very long time to correct the existing bad public perception even w/o these delinquent ones undermining the education effort.

The Penangs guys did a good piece on heritage buildings a few mths back with the mainstream media.
Talk to your assoc if all these can be coordinated or not.

I hv 2 I just googled
www.vintagemalaya.com/
www.badanwarisan.org.my/

It's a worthwhile effort engaging them.
May be some have done so already.
This is an interesting topic and I hope more can contribute and share info.
Who can tell, that some day one of us here will get to advise and sit in discussion with the powers-that-be, and we will hv the necessary info at our finger tips to help the govt make properly informed decisions.
Good for the country as a whole, responsible engaging citizens as an example to our young ones.

As for the govt's current stand on gazetted heritage sites, I believe it was reported the govt was to refer to UNESCO for advice.
I think this has to do with the funds frm UNESCO for the upkeep of these sites.

This post has been edited by Cergau: Mar 16 2010, 01:07 PM

Well well,
I retrieved swiftlet related MSM reports and I copy here the links

Here ASNI (the Penang assoc I mentioned earlier) had provided a very good argument...
the BHs were in existence before granted Unesco World Heritage status.
and also the NGOs I mentioned are against letting the BHs to continue operating
I guess they have their work already cut out for them.
http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=...2322&sec=nation

ahwee1987,
That's alot of birds. u sure that wasnt next to a BH?
Thought I saw a roof at some point.
Anyway I have never seen that many in all my testing, but then I dont test at areas I cannot afford anyway.
Like some sifus oredy lamented, these choice coastal land has gone up 300% in price attributed to BHs demand.
Dont ever say it's for BH when looking for land.
Good luck at yr grandad's place and hope u turn the sky into black mass when u turn on the chirp.

There must be very successful BH(s) around for that nos to be around.
To find the owners?
Various ways depending..you have to play detective a little
1)There shd be a sign board on site with info on developer, engineer, etc....you trace frm these info ELSE
2)Get the rough location and a lot of your verbal description to a real estate agent and ask for a title search...charges varies RM50-RM150 depending on travelling cost. I think if u DIY u pay RM30 to the local land office, but how to get the LOT nos and so on? Real estate agents have stakes of plans to identify and narrow down the place. ELSE
3)This is the fun way....
a)Get a GPS or the the ones that are packaged into yr hp also can
b)Mark the spot (waypoint in GPS speak) - required for step (d)
c)Start GoogleEarth,
d)Add Placemark
edit the lat and long with values frm step (b)
OK and close
see the placemark (a thumbtack) automaticaly go to the spot u made the waypoint
now eyeball the place on GoogleEarth and get a bearing of the place
Show to the real estate agent the location.

PS There is a way which I stumbled on accidentally in a certain govt department online where u can get to the lot nos.
I do not wish to disclose the way as I found out later its a source of info to a group of local enthusiast whose hobby is to locate all the surveyors markers in the country. I wouldnt wanna to be the cause of stoppage to their hobby if the govr dept closes that gap.
There markers are all over the place, mountain tops, in jungles, in towns, along roads, hiways, next to old buildings etc...a lot were laid down by the colonials. An interesting hobby for adventurous folks with a GPS. You get bragging rights with pics of the markers.

Pt 1)
Hypocrites..they are probably sharing out some of the confiscated items amongst themselves.
Only a token nos are required for court exhibits. Some of them will find their way to the market again.

Pt 2)
I do not recall electing any of them for them to impose their belief on me in one way or the other!!!
If my MP turned out to be a clown in Parliament I correct my mistake at the next GE.
I certainly did not elect these bunch of clowns. They are being paid off tax payers money.
May be when I got lot's of money I will take them to court exerting my constitutional right. (below) I wanna pay only the part that doesnt go to them.
Article number: 11
(2) No person shall be compelled to pay any tax the proceeds of which are specially allocated in
whole or in part for the purposes of a religion other than his own.

Hackwire,
Are you registered to vote?
If not go get yrself registered.

Good for you.
Agreed.
As for our beloved Malaysia, it's like the case of the rotting fish.
It rots from the head first.
Fix the heads and the rest of the body will follow suit.
I have confidence in our civil service that it can be turned around.
It only takes the heads to walk the talk and the rest will slowly regain their faith in the system and start to regain pride in their jobs.
And waiting for an asteroid strike is not realistic, and taking no action is not an option too.

"The only thing needed for evil to triumph is that good men do nothing"

So we do what we can at every opportunity.
Just like the EBN biz, a lot has to do with public perception.
Until the advent of the internet, we have had 50 years of propaganda garbage fed to us.
It;s only over the last few years folks get to read alternative news.
Do you think that all these alternative news and writeups came from paid sources?
A lot are from volunteers who do at their own time for the love of the country.
These are the real patriots ...only OKU (otak only) think sticking a flag up during Merdeka day are patriots.
Some cant decide if they are being nationalistic or patriotic.
It's like religion, it's in your chest/heart.

Share alternative info, dispel myths, then slowly a more balanced truth will prevail.
Let readers make up their own minds.
These are the things we can do apart from voting.

My apologies, I am out of topic.

This is exactly what I meant (pt2 ) in my earlier posting , since when did I elect a person who earns his salary frm my tax to tell me what I can or cannot buy based on nothing but his values. I do not care two hoots where he thinks he got his right from. There is no such specific law. Imposing their values on someone else in guise of enforcement? If it was my shop, I would have demanded that they write it down in their charge that my merchandise is haram. Their laws are meant for their kind, since when can they impose their beliefs on me in whatever form? Maybe the dildos need to be made by a Muslim? Camel turd.!!!! I do not know why they are doing things like this that do nothing but divide us? maybe after all the corrupted policticians are got rid off, they want to start us on a religious war. Camel 2xturds.
Dildos are a much better prevention for abandoned babies. Bigots!!!

This post has been edited by Cergau: Mar 19 2010, 05:19 PM

Reading WW and your comments on the same pt.
They are related to the following in the DRAFT 1GP (which WW stated was oredy or existing requirement)

6.11 (ii) Bangunan tingkat bawah dimestikan menjalankan perniagaan, manakala tingkat atas dibenarkan untuk dijadikan bangunan
industri burung supaya kawasan pekan tidak sunyi, muram dan, terpinggir.

8.1 (i) Bangunan yang digunakan bagi maksud perusahaan sarang burung layang - layang ini hendaklah ditempatkan secara
berasingan dan tidak dijadikan sebahagiannya sebagai tempat kediaman I tempat memproses makanan atau penstoran makanan

As for 6.11 ...the stated reasons are merely speculative and too general. 1 size fit all kind of prescription.
8.1...similarly prescriptive (and I presume) frm a public and health perspective.

We have read from both of you examples of the 2 extremes.
1)Abandoned shoplots rescued from being dilapidated further by setting up BHs and
2)Roaring food biz on the grnd flr of a shoplot BH.

IMHO 6.11 is already partially achieved by setting BHs in these 'dumps'.
As for the aesthetics...sprucing up the ground floor maybe with a dark tinted glass/office frontage will suffice.
We can always oblige by turning up vol of the chirps if that's what they want ie if too 'sunyi'.

As for 8.1 ....IMHO let market forces rule.
The authorities shd not be prescribing to potential entrepreneurs.
Let the customers exercise their freedom of choice.
If they have no problem eating at such places, well and good.
Otherwise, no one is compelling them to eat where they do not wish to.
What business is it for the public to complain that a certain food business is under a BH?
They still have the choice of not patronising the joint! If there are enuff of them and the food biz owner thinks it fit, then....move to where yr customers want you to be.
Let market forces decide.

The only difficulty is when a neighbouring shoplot feels disadvantaged by the presence of your BH next door.
His property is now less desirable and possibly potential clients restricted by the some of the 1GP conditions.
I sense this is the point that gave rise to 6.11 (ii)

IMHO not talking about these small details doesnt make the problem go away.
We may be setting up these BH owners for disappointment and panic when the full force of the 1GP is implemented.
It may be more constructive if arguments are presented with possible solutions.
That may help to gather more opinions for a counter solution to the 1GP guidelines.

The ugly truth is we can't save ALL the shoplot BHs if there was no way they can fully comply.
(some may argue 1GP is not all abt shoplots, but I beg to differ as they are the most at risk of non compliance
and I'll add most of the conditions are scripted for shoplots)

Are we going to leave them be? We can at least try with some counter solutions to the authorities!
May I humbly request that we present arguments on the forum and leave out personal statements?
Attack the arguments by all means but leave out the personal stuff.
Being polite folks... alot of us may wish to remain silent on the side if the arguments get too personal.

Educating these BHs operators now may be more beneficial then keeping quiet and go on denial.
I sense that the impending 1GP implementation is not reaching the grassroots.
I hope I am wrong, and these shoplot operators are all huddling in their assoc debating the likely impact and counter solutions.
(Oh yeah I can hear arguments...debate what!!! there is no 1GP to debate!!! Does anyone here think that the draft we have sighted will differ very much from what will go for implementation?)

We get to read both CK and WW's sharing but by inference both have no difficulties complying.
We have yet to read at least 1 BH operator who may have difficulty complying.
Maybe a non issue after all!


Cheers

---

Added on March 21, 2010, 11:23 amUncle Ben,
I am eagerly awaiting what other sifus may have to say abt this practice.
Definitely controversial...nice topic.

This post has been edited by Cergau: Mar 21 2010, 11:23 AM

In Addition
If this practice is adopted by even a small minority and subsequently 'discovered' by animal rights group, there will be hell to pay.
Just wait till these NGOs lobby their govts to apply trade pressure on EBN from Malaysia.
(and frm another earlier posting..it was reported on HK TV that Vietnamese EBN is superior and thus commands the same in price.
no one in the international market will miss M'sian EBN if banned or restricted)
Remember the local animal rights group are just as vocal!!!
All they need to show in their campaign to ostracise us are
1)curry coated deep fried baby swiftlets (ala Mamak) and the 'preparation' complete with helpless, flapping, screaming fledgings!!
2)giant swiftlet egg omelettes followed by aerial shots of free flying swiftlets. (to show what the world has lost cos' we kill their young and unborn).
....and we do not even have a shadow of a finger on the impending 1GP.!!

Probably husband and wife......after hearing what was advocated in KK.

Are these just coincidences? All on the same day?
http://www.nst.com.my/Current_News/NST/art...icle/index_html
http://www.nst.com.my/Current_News/NST/art...icle/index_html
http://www.nst.com.my/Current_News/NST/art...icle/index_html
http://www.nst.com.my/Current_News/NST/art...icle/index_html

This post has been edited by Cergau: Mar 29 2010, 06:44 PM

All these reports are too coincidental aren't they?
Wonder what all these are a buildup to?

Hackwire,
IMHO you may have misunderstood.
There was a suggestion not to be too free with posting that is self incriminating to the industry.
Friends and foe troll this forum.

It;s has even surpass the stock market forum.
Maybe there's no longer any money to be made there!!!

Hackwire,
I agree. on the disorganised info.
Engineer Lee has most of the relevant V1 postings organised at the front pages of this thread.
May be a thread-specific FAQ?
I do not know if this forum has that technical feature to hold the FAQ in a separate frame or at least a visible boilerplate-type hyperlink?
Why dun you initiate a chat with Admin if we can do something like that.
I will be back probably tomorrow to cont this and see if we can do something to organise the info.
Anyone else...any suggestions welcome. The hosting MUST be free and long term, I will contribute time.
Be back tomorrow.

This post has been edited by Cergau: Mar 31 2010, 12:05 PM

All,
The situation is bad enuff, let's not add on to by blurting out stuff along racial lines.
We ourselves have to alleviate by living it and not merely complain about it.
I am of the human race.
(am writing frm a cybercafe...missed u guys too much -lah)