DENON AVR-1909 IN COMPARISON TO 2309:-

Due to some curiousity from some forumers, I have extracted below post from AVForums & hope it helps,



Q. I noticed that the AVR 2309ci/889 is only a couple hundred more. Is it worth it to step up to the higher model?

A. The primary benefit of the 2309/889 vs the 1909/789 is the addition of the fourth HDMI input.

Both 1909/789 and 2309/889 have identical audio decoding capability, identical video processing capability, identical multizone functionality, and identical Audyssey feature sets.

This is a list of features you gain stepping up from 1909/789 to 2309/889:

1. 2 lbs heavier, and slightly more power (100Wx7 instead of 90Wx7)
2. A fourth rear HDMI input
3. A fourth rear S-video input
4. S-video and optical audio inputs on front auxilliary input
5. Dedicated phono input with pre-amp stage
6. Component video bandwidth is rated at 100MHz (up from 60MHz on 1909/789)
7. Slightly better DAC
8. Detachable power cord
9. RS232 and 12V Trigger ports (2309ci only)

Only you can decide if these features are "worth it", please do not ask


Q: I’m afraid to buy a Yamaha because it clips the HDMI video signal, and I’m afraid to buy a Harman Kardon because of all the problems with the PS3. Please tell me the Denon works?

A: Denon seems to get HDMI implementation correct.

At this point, there are no known bugs at all with the 1909/789 and the PS3. Enjoy!

The Denon 1909/789 will also correctly pass BTB/WTW signals over HDMI (no video clipping), and test patterns have confirmed that it does not touch digital video while passing it through.

The only thing generally wrong with Denons is the sucky manual!


Q. Does the AVR 1909/789 screw up the video at all?

A. Not that we know of. As noted above, all Denon AVR’s correctly pass BTB/WTW.

The 1909/789 will not do ANY processing to HDMI video. The only thing it will do is pass the video through. There is NO processing and NO degrading/clipping of HDMI video at all.

The only video processing available is analog-to-digital transcoding and scaling. The analog>digital transcode may soften the picture slightly, although you probably will never notice it. If you leave all the video settings at the defaults, the Denon will take any analog signal you input and output it via HDMI at the highest resolution setting your TV accepts.

The Faroudja scaler in the Denon does a good job in general with standard definition material (as it was specifically designed for 480i deinterlacing in progressive DVD players), but it is no great shakes in terms of scaling and HD processing (especially 1080i deinterlacing).

However, it may still be better than the video processing in your TV. You will have to test this out yourself and see which does a better job.

If you would like to disable the video processing on an analog source, set “i/p Scaler” to OFF under MENU > INPUT SETUP > VIDEO. When the scaler is set to OFF, it will just pass through analog signals to the HDMI output at the same resolution they came in, with no processing or scaling.

Q: I'm afraid to buy an Onkyo because people say it runs so hot. Does the 1909/789 run hot?

A: The 1909/789 does not run very hot. AVS member Bugs has graciously tested this out for us, his results are pasted below:

Temperature

The 1909 is a relatively cool-running component. Installed in a 5.1 system, on an open shelf, with 8" of clearance on the sides and 5" of clearance on the top and back, the 1909 had a temperature rise of 26F -28F (14C - 15C) after running for 2 hours at a volume of -18dB.

For a comparison, an Onkyo TX-SR606 installed in the same system had a temperature rise of 50F - 52 F (28C - 29C) under the same conditions.



Anyone owned a DENON AVR currently? Which model do you think is BEST value for money?

Any potential buyer, please share your view.......

Nadky,

Where do you get that prices from.....? Seems very attractive huh?

Avr 1509/1709, I think you have to ask Junwei.......maybe he does carry these models.

If you would like to get a loseless audio DTS-Master, Video upscaling etc features, you have to buy at least avr-1909 onwards. Avr-1709 does not decode HD-Audio, only offer 7.1 DTS channels.

---

Added on December 23, 2008, 4:03 pmI would like to know are there any other brands owners switch that have or going to switch to Denon??






This post has been edited by mikapoh: Dec 23 2008, 04:03 PM

I nearly or in fact paid a "deposit" to order a Yamaha 663, until out of nowhere, this person introduced me Denon. I have known this brand before but not really bother to see it not to mention test it.

Now that I owned Avr-1909 and is very pleased with its all-round movie presentation. I must say its strength lies on its all channels sound separation whereby front, centre & rear are clearly feeded from the amp. The dynamic effects generated from the surround is second to none. These strengths are partly due to its "softer" approach to sound being amplified. Unlike some other brands which produce warmer & omph sound.

The LCD display at front panel is LARGE compare to its rivals. I think Onkyo is the worst. It will reads DTS SURROUND in BIG font at the panel or DOLBY DIGITAL, DTS-MASTER etc... when difference sources are detected. The smaller 7.1 speakers boxes signal will also lit telling you how many speakers are in active.......for different listening.

Even switch to Astro FM radio, you can even sense its dynamic sound. Test it and you know what I mean.

The cons are many features are hiding no thanks to its unfriendly manual. Eg, for manually ajusting the speaker levels after running auto set-up, I have to re-read the manual few times. The steps are not in sequence. The volumme of 90W per channel might not be sufficient for very large room, I guess. There are also no pre-amp out to add more power in the future. However, to me I dont listen even at reference level. I even have to run Audyssey EQ at nite and I must say it spice-up all the speakers at lower volume like -28db and above. Just love the babe................cheers.

Hey, 2309 is not entry level. It should rates as middle range....

Maybe some Denon distributor would like to clarify on this issue.

So u have been using 2807, & can we have your review on its performance please??

The price of 2309 should be RM3,xxx but less than RM4k for sure......subject to your negotiation with your dealer...


FEATURES


GENERAL Availability August 2008

Finish Black

--> Power Output; Watts Per Channel 100

All Channels Rated @ 0.05 THD –

All Channels Rated @ 0.08 THD

Weight: In Pounds 27.1

Width (inches) 17.1

Height (inches) 6.7

Depth (inches) 16.9


SOUND MODES
THX Ultra2-Certified –

Dynamic Discrete Surround Circuit – D.D.S.C - D –

Processor(s) – Bit Depth and Type 1 - 21367 32-bit Floating Point

Dolby Pro Logic IIx – with Cinema, Music, Game Modes

THX Post-Processing – DPL (4.0), DPL2 Cinema, DD/DTS (5.1), ES Discrete (6.1), ES Matrix, Neo:6 Cinema –

THX Ultra2 7.1 Cinema, Music and Game Modes –

THX Surround EX Decoding –

Dolby Digital Plus –

Dolby Digital Surround EX Decoding

Dolby Digital Pro Logic II –

dts ES Discrete 6.1 Decoding

dts ES Matrix 6.1 Decoding

dts Neo:6 Stereo-to-Surround Cinema and Music Modes

dts 96/24 5.1 for DVD-Video Processing

Dolby Headphone –

HDCD Decoder –

Audio Signal Delay (Sync. Audio with Video signal) – By source

Pure Direct/Direct/Stereo Modes on Digital/Analog inputs

Stereo/Direct Modes w/Pure Analog Path

5-Channel Stereo Mode –

5-Channel Equal Power –

Video Game Mode

Wide Screen 7.1 Mode

Mono Movie Surround Mode

Rock Arena Surround Mode

Matrix Surround Mode

Jazz Club Surround Mode

Virtual Surround Mode – For 2 Speakers/Headphones

Multi-Channel Stereo Mode 5/6/7

DSP Effect Modes 7

Auto Surround Mode (Analog or Digital Input Type)

Active Center Channel In All Surround Modes

Dynamic Discrete Surround Circuit - Digital HD Dynamic Discrete Surround Circuit - Digital HD

Dolby TrueHD and Dolby Digital+

dts-HD Master Audio

MP3 Decoding –

WMA Decoding –

HD Radio –

tr> XMHD

Neural Surround Mode XMHD


CONNECTIVITY
True 24-bit/96-kHz Digital Input Capability

True 24-bit/192-kHz Digital Input Capability (Denon Link & 1394) –

Assignable Digital Inputs

Digital Input – DENON Link 3rd (SACD Ready) –

IEEE-1394 Digital Audio Input/Output –

Digital Inputs: Coaxial 2

Digital Inputs: Optical 2

Digital Outputs: Optical 1

Digital to Analog REC Out

Analog Audio Inputs, Incl. Tuner 9

Phono Input

Source Function Renaming

Analog Record Outputs 2

Front Panel A/V Inputs w/Cover * Composite and S-Video * with Optical

Video Conversion –Composite to S-Video to Component

Video Conversion – Composite to S-Video to Composite

Video Conversion – Analog to HDMI –

DVI/HDMI Video Inputs – Compatible with 1.1 Spec. – Multi-Channel Audio *1080p HDMI –

HDMI Video Outputs *1080p *

Composite Video Inputs 4

Composite Video Outputs 2

S-Video Inputs 4

S-Video Outputs 2

Component Video Inputs x Bandwidth - *Assignable *3 x 100

Component Video Outputs

6-Ch. External Analog Input –

8-Ch. External Analog Input

Banana Plug Speaker Terminals, All Channels

Cinema EQ

Front A/B Speaker Selector –

56 Station Auto-Preset Memory Tuning

Radio Data System (RDS) –

XM Satellite Radio 'Connect and Play' Ready – with optional antenna –

Sirius Ready

Rhapsody –

Direct Function (Tone Bypass)

Volume Control Un-muting

Selectable Muting Levels (Full/-40/-20)

Video Select Control

RS-232 Port – Third Party Remote Controllers

RJ-45 Ethernet Port – Same Functionality as AVR-5805/4806 –

PC Setup and Control Capability via RS-232C

IR Serial Remote In/Out terminals –

+12v Trigger Output - Assignable –

Multi-Source/Multi-Zone (*Uses REC OUT) –

Pre-amp Outputs for Multi-Zone

High Pass Filter for Multi-Zone Outputs –

Multi-Zone Pre-Amp Outputs – Selectable Output Levels –

Discrete Multi-Zone Composite Video Output - *S-Video also –

Discrete Remote Power On/Off, Source Selection and Volume for Main and Second/Third* Zones

Discrete Remote Source Selection for Zone 3 –

Assignable Amplifier Configuration of Surround Back Channels –

Speaker Time-Delay and Level Controls: L/R, Sub, C, Surr. L/R, Surround Back

Pre-Amp Outputs Sub

Internet Radio –

iPod Port (Using optional AKP-100 cable) –

iPod Dock Control Port (Using optional ASD-1R Denon iDock)

USB Flash Drive Port –



pre Labled Assignable Digital Inputs

BNC Digital Inputs - Audio & Video –

Digital to Analog Conversion Multi Zone Outputs –

XLR Analog Input –

XLR Analog Output –

Input Delete Function

Front Panel AV Inputs Inside Panel Composite & S-video –

s-Video Down Conversion 2nd Zone –

Video Conversion Analog to HDMI Scaling 480p 720p 1080i 1080p

Faroudja DCDi Video Processing and Scaling FLI2310

Silicon Optix Realta HQV Processing and Scaling –

HDMI Video Output s1.1 Spec 1080p –

HDMI 1.3a Inputs 4

HDMI 1.3a Outputs 1

HDMI Audio/Video Repeater Function

HDMI Video Switching Function –

HDMI Deep Color Support-36Bit

HDMI xvYCC Color Space Support

HDMI SACD Support –

Component Video Output 2nd Zone –

10-Ch External Analog Input –

Enhanced Power Amp Assignment –

Builtin WiFi Connectivity WiFi B/G certified –

Network Enabled –

USB Port with HDD Support –
HQV –

COMPONENT TECHNOLOGY
Equal Power Amplifiers

Low Impedance Drive Capability

High-Current/Discrete Amplifiers

Independent Power Supplies

Pure Audio Construction –

Toroidal Power Transformer –

Dolby Digital, dts and DSP Modes – Analog Devices, HammerHead SHARC

Dolby Digital, dts and DSP Modes – Texas Instruments Aureus –

AL24 Processing - All Channels –

24-bit/192-kHz DACs – Burr-Brown PCM-1791 –

24-bit/192-kHz DACs - Analog Devices 24-bit/192-192kHz ADAU1328

Analog-to-Digital Conversion - Bit Depth/Sampling Rate 24-bit/96-kHz ADAU1328

Variable High/Low Pass Crossover Points (12/24dB) 40/60/80/100/120/150/200/250

Built In Time Based Correction

Advanced AL24 Processing Multi Channel –

Automatic Lip Sync

HD Radio Tuner Built-in –


CONVENIENCE FEATURES
Front Panel A/B Speaker Selector

Auto Setup Calibration

Auto/Manual Room Equalization

Audyssey MultEqxt Room Eq. with up to eight position setup –

Audyssey MultEQ

Audyssey Dynamic Volume

Auto Setup Microphone Included/Type Y/Mold DM-A409

Dual Surround Mode Spkr. Selector –

Icon-Based On-Screen Display

Front Panel System Setup Control

Personal Memory Plus

System Setup/Surround Parameters Lockout

Relay-Controlled Protection Circuits

Microprocessor User Re-set Y/pg. 64

Detachable Power Cord

Subwoofer Peak-Level Limiter (THX) –

Pre-programmed (10 Devices) Glow Key Remote Control with Punch Through Commands –

Pre-programmed/Learning EL Remote with Backlighting and Punch Through Commands –


Audyssey MultEQ XT Room Correction with up to eight position setup –

Audyssey Mult EQ Room Correction Positions 6



Attached thumbnail(s)

DENON lowest crossover is 80HZ..........How come it cannot go lower than that for those who have larger floorstanders which can produce lower bass frequency?

I am wondering does Denon has multi-channels crossover? The lowest 80HZ is overall cut-off frequency for all speakers channels. 80Hz is recommended by THX but if you are using smaller satellite speakers, the crossover should be set much higher, probably around 120Hz......

However, most of the people I know are using bigger front speakers or centre speakers and the surround speakers are of smaller size, more like satellite speakers. One way is to save space at the back which can wall-mount the surround. Bigger size speakers like Bookshelf as surround will have to find a pair of proper speaker stand or shelf to accomodate them. So, by setting the standard recommended corssover of 80Hz, this will load the smaller surround spearkers much more burden which they cant generate even close to 100Hz, not to say 80Hz. As as result, they will sound distortion. In turn, if we tweak the crossover higher to say 120Hz, the larger front speakers will not be fully-utiilised. By offering multi-channel crossover settings, it will sounds more practical as most of us have very different sizes of speakers. WHat's your view?

Wahlau, how much did you sell your V1800 for?

Sigh, some of the top branded av manufacturers just followed rigidly what the THX certified. They still think it is widely acceptable crossover frequency. I dont know top model Denon has to offer about multi crossover settings. Maybe Junwei can help as main distributor of Denon.

However, in UK, they dont normally set the crossover lower than 80Hz. They claimed the front and the Sub will produce DOUBLE BASS which can distort the lower bass freqency as timing of the two bass will be different.

Some of expert there recommend to change all front to small and tweak it higher to 120Hz! .....and let the Sub do the job. I will still stick to 80Hz as starting point. But, let see the below article extracted:-


[B]OK, What if my Speakers are considered LARGE

For some, your main speakers may actually extend down to 30Hz or lower, especially if they include 10” or 12” side-firing low frequency drivers. The temptation will be to set these speakers to LARGE., The setting is there so there must be a place for its use, right? Actually, we recommend setting almost all speakers to SMALL, even if they are physically large floorstanding speakers. Here’s why: Even though those floorstanders have a low extension, they won’t necessarily go down to the lowest range of your subwoofer as linearly and free of compression (unless your main speakers have more piston area and box volume than your sub – but we won’t address that here) The problem with the LARGE setting is: the ultra low frequency information will not be heard if the speaker cannot reproduce it. Well if by some chance you were able to get your main speakers bass extension flat down to 20Hz, then adding the subwoofer on top of that would yield too much (up to 6dB) of bass output at the frequencies both are producing. Hence integration between the loudspeakers and subwoofer will be poor and the bass may be overpowering, sloppy and/or boomy.


As a practical example, Reference System 3 has a pair of RBH Sound 1266-LSEs which extend down to 32Hz. I have them set to SMALL and I set my crossover frequency to 60Hz. Because of this, the subwoofer handles everything up to 60Hz that would otherwise go to my front speakers. The front speakers are now freed up to concentrate on only 60Hz and up. The result is no lost information, less distortion, more headroom and a better overall sound.


written by Audioholics editor....

Longmile9, are u sure avr-2308 is able to set individual speakers crossover??

Thats great, you dont have to spend a fortune to get this feature....BTW, how do you set the crossover for all your speakers, if you dont mind telling us..........

A change is necessary if you plan to add a bluray player to your HT combo in the future. At least AVR-1909 model onwards will support HD Audio. I guess your AVR-1709 only decodes DTS or Dolby 7.1 only. So, if you want future proof amp, go change it...... . Dont think twice!

I still think the 1909 is doing a very reasonable job in upscaling the video signal. However, some prefer to use their dvdp to upscale. It is up to your eyes to judge.

Longmile9,

For 1909, isn't it can decode all HD-Audio by the amp itself right? Therefore not necessary to use PS3 to feed in LPCM. I think it will sound better to bitstream the HD signal & let the amp decodes internally.

Hey guys,

I am thinking that AVR-1709 is able to support True HD-Audio via LPCM from PS3. Looking at the back panel of the amp, it features 8 channels audio input. Correct me if I m wrong, you can use PS3 to decode & then connect all individual speakers channels to these input and you will still receive True HD surround sound........... ?
If not, what are these 8 channels input for (FL, FR, C, SW, SR, SL, SBL, SRL) ?

Good reply from aiman04. Now we get hell a lot better understanding about receiving lossless signal.

Richard, your question each time gets more complicated......

Richard,

It does not mean you turn off the volume of the Sub. For basic Sub volume, it should be set at 12 o'clock & set the frequency level to the max. Then Audyssey will do the calculation later.

I think you should visit this site for more details;

Official Audyssey Details Set-Up


Enjoy your reading & make sure you tweak the kits up.

Well, for me, I will manually adjust the Sub volume via Denon AVR. For dvd, I adjust to +2.5db and for Astro I set it to +8db so that to get a bit of bass for assstro listening, no complain la.....what to do, the least I can do. I will also set my astro input to Dolby PLII Cinema so that the dialogue can channel to the centre speaker.

Tell me your settings after running the auto set-up in your room....

Well, I am just wondering why your father is so keen in tuning the AVR settings. I guess most of our old men, wives or uncles would like the system to tune everything for them so that they plug & play. Just like HTIB system. To tune an AVR properly is not a straight forward thing. YOu got to study & read up a bit.

It is true that it says the Auto setup has to run in a very quiet room with minimu noise. After running the set-up, speakers are to remain where they are placed to avoid inaccurate timing & speakers not integrate correctly. But some people prefer to do manual settings as they dont like the conservative settings of Audyssey mult-EQ. I personally prefer Audyssey EQ but not its dynamic volume, when watching movies as I dont listen in very high volume. Average volume for me is at -28db and at this volume, the audyssey EQ is doing wonderful job in presenting open yet dynamic sound across all speakers.

As for astro, I set to dynamic volume ON because there are plenty of advertisements noise that keep charging up at your ears.......

But with new Denon AVR-1709, I am sure you will discover more in your dvd collection. This will in turn make you glue to movies more than ever.......not to mention BD movies though...

Char,

May I know how much your friend offer to you 2nd HT sets? less than RM2k?

Folk out RM1k to take back whole kits except the AVR1800.

Well, since you are planning to buy PS3 which will play HD audio in the future, it is pointless to take on the 1800 coz it cant play the loseless audio. It is considered outdated amp with no HDMI connectivity. To enjoy bluray audio, for a start, you need to get AVR-1909. However, it is > RM2k. Maybe the price has dropped now......

For my case, the Audyssey always set my surround level higher than other front speakers eventhough they are nearest to my listening position.

I always watch with mulit-EQ but dynamic volumme off except astro where there plenty annoying advertisement noise. I found with the EQ on, the surround effect are greatly enhanced. But, if you like to watch your movie at high volumme, then turning the EQ off is ideal.
My LFE vol is at 12 o'clock at the sub and the +2.5db at the avr. For astro, I have made it memorised to +8.0db so to boost the bass frequency.

Richard,

If the Audyssey lights turns red, it means you are turnning the dynamic EQ On & dynamic volume Off. If it shows green, both EQ & Volume are active.

If you adjust the settings after running auto setup, the Audyssey will detect it and you can notice it on the display screen of your avr. The frame box of the Audyssey on the display panel will disappear. Check it......& have fun.

If you are planning to use PS3 to stream HD audio, then it should not be a problem coz it can decodes itself and transfer as multichannel to your old AVR. This way you are still get those HD audio signal.

But if plan to hook it up BD standalone player or Dvico HD media player, then I think should upgrade to HD support AVR, at very least is AVR-1909. Like they say, HD Audio compare to core audio is a huge difference even on a budget speaker set-up. Those hi-def sound will be much felt compare to HD-Audio which depends on your sitting distance or sizes of your HDTV to make a difference.

I think HTkaki should be able to comment on this as his Yammy Amp is frequently light up those Magical words feeds from Dvico.

---

Added on April 30, 2009, 10:35 pmThis post has been edited by mikapoh: Apr 30 2009, 10:35 PM