Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

28 Pages « < 4 5 6 7 8 > » Bottom

Outline · [ Standard ] · Linear+

 BARF Diet, Bones And Raw Food Diet

views
     
dongdong86
post Dec 11 2008, 11:01 PM

New Member
*
Junior Member
11 posts

Joined: Nov 2008


QUOTE(iluv2zzz @ Dec 11 2008, 05:38 PM)
Just a note for those who want to start BARF,

Make sure you have the knowledge on BARF feeding. Some people might say if you are scare that you can't give a complete balance meal, just buy the pre-packed one. Before you BLINDLY buy them, ask them for the ingredient PRECISELY and the proportion of them. Our BARF market in Malaysia is still not well developed. Not like the other country, where they have this company preparing BARF with all the nutrition tested.

Main concern, source of the meat. If it is chicken, ask them what kind of chicken, pasar chicken or carrefour chicken. Ask them, rib, thigh, drumstick or what? If offals added, is it beef/lamb/chicken/pork? Grounded meat and bone. How many % of meat? How many % of bone? Vegetables added, specific what is the vegetables, and how much was added? Supplement added, and what supplement is that? Named it to the details. But I can rest assure you, they won't be telling you 100% because its their "Secret Recipe". And please be aware that your dogs on BARF need a rotation of food. Sticking to one recipe won't do your dog good. Go for more variety for more balance vitamin and minerals.

Be aware of some bad traders adding in cheapo meat and sell at higher price. I don't know if there is any at the current market, but please be aware. Do not risk your dogs' life.

Best of BARF, learn and do it yourself, so you get to see how it is prepared, the hygiene, and confident about what goes into your dogs' stomach. Learn about supplements, and how much to be added. Over dose will do no good.

I am not against anybody here, just voice out my opinion.
*
GOOD POINTS!!!

This should be one of my considerations when i do BARF. Well, i can make sure 99% customer satisfaction. As in now, our BARF main meat is chicken keel which is very meaty and less bones, it is very expensive also. We want to start adding fish oil even it sounds silly, at least from business view point, but we want the best for your pets smile.gif

Lets the quality prove the games. cool2.gif


Added on December 11, 2008, 11:08 pmWe are also looking for large amount of wild boar supply, as it is "wilder" then normal farm chicken, less artificial thingy in the meat, safer for pets. Other than that, other meat such as lamb and beef are also available.


Added on December 11, 2008, 11:35 pmI dont mind sharing some method of judging quality of a commercialized BARF.

1) De-freeze it, then see how many water coming out. For little amount of water, it maybe fruit or vege juice, apple cider vinegar and blood. If a lot of water come out, there may be water added in BARF. Water is FREE substitute to expensive meat.

2) De-freeze it, try to smell whether got rotten or weird smell or not. Rotten smell means it is not fresh. But do differentiate well between meat smell and rotten smell, especially chicken, sometime chicken smell may be disgusting.

3) See by your eyes, you can see vege, meat, bones, oil in it. The color of it should be fresh red but not dark red. Dark red means too much CHEAP liver added.

4) Your dog will know everything. Dogs like fresh meat but not rotten one, pure BARF without water, right portion of meat:vege:fruits. if you are feeding cats, good. Some cats dont like BARF at all, but most cats dont like cheap BARF!

5) A nutritious BARF will make your dog more active, fur more shiny. But you need a strong observation for it.


Else than Tails Unlimited in Sungai Long and Pet Epicure in Taman Melawati, any pet shops else selling BARF also? Have to mention this two are both pet rescuers which have done their social responsible parts. smile.gif

This post has been edited by dongdong86: Dec 11 2008, 11:35 PM
Doraemon11
post Dec 12 2008, 12:02 AM

On my way
****
Senior Member
530 posts

Joined: Jul 2008


QUOTE(crazymouse_yyh @ Dec 11 2008, 09:12 PM)
From what I follow, Meaty bones is normally 60 to 80% of the diet, and meaty means the bones with 50% meat and 50% bones on them. Feeding meat alone without bones is not so good coz phosphorus level.... the bones is a source of calcium. Another diet ppl follow is the prey diet, which is 80% meat and meaty organs, 10% bones and 10% offal.

Glad I know what goes in and the quality of the products in the raw food I get, but yah, we must give variety, so rotating different sorts of meats, bones, offal is a must to gain proper nutrition.
*
QUOTE(dongdong86 @ Dec 11 2008, 11:01 PM)
GOOD POINTS!!!

This should be one of my considerations when i do BARF. Well, i can make sure 99% customer satisfaction. As in now, our BARF main meat is chicken keel which is very meaty and less bones, it is very expensive also. We want to start adding fish oil even it sounds silly, at least from business view point, but we want the best for your pets smile.gif

Lets the quality prove the games.  cool2.gif


Added on December 11, 2008, 11:08 pmWe are also looking for large amount of wild boar supply, as it is "wilder" then normal farm chicken, less artificial thingy in the meat, safer for pets. Other than that, other meat such as lamb and beef are also available.


Added on December 11, 2008, 11:35 pmI dont mind sharing some method of judging quality of a commercialized BARF.

1) De-freeze it, then see how many water coming out. For little amount of water, it maybe fruit or vege juice, apple cider vinegar and blood. If a lot of water come out, there may be water added in BARF. Water is FREE substitute to expensive meat.

2) De-freeze it, try to smell whether got rotten or weird smell or not. Rotten smell means it is not fresh. But do differentiate well between meat smell and rotten smell, especially chicken, sometime chicken smell may be disgusting.

3) See by your eyes, you can see vege, meat, bones, oil in it. The color of it should be fresh red but not dark red. Dark red means too much CHEAP liver added.

4) Your dog will know everything. Dogs like fresh meat but not rotten one, pure BARF without water, right portion of meat:vege:fruits. if you are feeding cats, good. Some cats dont like BARF at all, but most cats dont like cheap BARF!

5) A nutritious BARF will make your dog more active, fur more shiny. But you need a strong observation for it.
Else than Tails Unlimited in Sungai Long and Pet Epicure in Taman Melawati, any pet shops else selling BARF also? Have to mention this two are both pet rescuers which have done their social responsible parts. smile.gif
*
Thanks for sharing..... rclxms.gif
Much much appreciated..... notworthy.gif
iluv2zzz
post Dec 12 2008, 03:32 AM

Professional Pet Groomer
*******
Senior Member
2,730 posts

Joined: May 2006


LOL, if I were to buy BARF, I would prefer no supplement added, so I will just add myself. For example, fish oil, don't see the need to freeze the fish oil along with the meat. Furthermore, most of the supplement is best to be added right before meal.

QUOTE
our BARF main meat is chicken keel which is very meaty and less bones


So there is the concern. does the bones in this one is enough? For the meat:bone ratio. Like Crazymouse said earlier, some recommend 50:50 for meat:bone, and some say 80% meat 10% bone 10% offals. It would be best if this commercialized BARF would tell their proportion and why is it so, and not the other way round smile.gif It would be more convincing that way smile.gif

I would not feed my dog with the mix without proper research smile.gif

By the way we should discuss how is the proper BARF should be, so we all can learn and at the same time judging the commercialized BARF. To buy or to prepare our own is individual choice smile.gif

This post has been edited by iluv2zzz: Dec 12 2008, 03:33 AM
dongdong86
post Dec 12 2008, 03:51 AM

New Member
*
Junior Member
11 posts

Joined: Nov 2008


QUOTE(Doraemon11 @ Dec 12 2008, 12:02 AM)
Thanks for sharing..... rclxms.gif
Much much appreciated.....  notworthy.gif
*
thanks biggrin.gif
QUOTE(iluv2zzz @ Dec 12 2008, 03:32 AM)
LOL, if I were to buy BARF, I would prefer no supplement added, so I will just add myself. For example, fish oil, don't see the need to freeze the fish oil along with the meat. Furthermore, most of the supplement is best to be added right before meal.
So there is the concern. does the bones in this one is enough? For the meat:bone ratio. Like Crazymouse said earlier, some recommend 50:50 for meat:bone, and some say 80% meat 10% bone 10% offals. It would be best if this commercialized BARF would tell their proportion and why is it so, and not the other way round smile.gif It would be more convincing that way smile.gif

I would not feed my dog with the mix without proper research smile.gif

By the way we should discuss how is the proper BARF should be, so we all can learn and at the same time judging the commercialized BARF. To buy or to prepare our own is individual choice smile.gif
*
Some customers want readily made, we want to do like this also, but seems troublesome for customers.

Oh i forgot to mention we add bones which are softer in the BARF also like rib bones. so the grinder can grind it and mix with meats. From Dr.B, he suggested 60% for meat only, which i think chicken keel is enough for this 60% of meat, then some bones, vege, fruits which consist 40% of the weight.

Actually you can put some cheap things in BARF, then you do experiments mentioned above, you will understand. erm...i think iluv2zzz know this!

Yup, for some ppl busy working, we provide them convenience. For ppl in suburban with little budget but extra time, I will still encourage them to DIY, summore i can provide simple recipes of BARF. Sharing is caring mah wink.gif
cattykatkat
post Dec 12 2008, 02:35 PM

New Member
*
Newbie
0 posts

Joined: Nov 2008
QUOTE(iluv2zzz @ Dec 12 2008, 03:32 AM)
LOL, if I were to buy BARF, I would prefer no supplement added, so I will just add myself. For example, fish oil, don't see the need to freeze the fish oil along with the meat. Furthermore, most of the supplement is best to be added right before meal.

well said, it's not freezing for freezing sake, it is more of a convenience. some people, incl. myself, may forget to add the supplement if packed separately.

So there is the concern. does the bones in this one is enough? For the meat:bone ratio. Like Crazymouse said earlier, some recommend 50:50 for meat:bone, and some say 80% meat 10% bone 10% offals. It would be best if this commercialized BARF would tell their proportion and why is it so, and not the other way round smile.gif It would be more convincing that way smile.gif

as far as i know, i buy from TU and their proportion is 60% raw meaty bones. if the bones are not meaty, they will use 60% bones, extra 20% meat. i think this is very close to the recommended proportion by Dr Billinghurst. so far, no complaints from my dogs. when the meat thaws, it is not soggy.

btw, plse explain commercialized Barf; i think anyone who makes barf for sale, or for that matter anything for sale, is commercialized. it's whether the code of ethics is observed and whether the bottom line is purely profit first or the animals' welfare first.

i have a suggestion for u. why not walk in to King's Confectionery or any famous food chain such as Big Apple, etc. and ask them for their ingredients and the exact proportion they use. better still, go to KFC and ask them what they put in to fry their chicken to make it so tasty. let us know the response u get.


I would not feed my dog with the mix without proper research smile.gif

neither would I.

By the way we should discuss how is the proper BARF should be, so we all can learn and at the same time judging the commercialized BARF. To buy or to prepare our own is individual choice smile.gif
*
iluv2zzz
post Dec 12 2008, 03:00 PM

Professional Pet Groomer
*******
Senior Member
2,730 posts

Joined: May 2006


That's why I said they won't be telling you the recipe smile.gif But for your dog's sake, you have the right to ask what is inside. Like the main thing, how much bone and how much meat. What vegetables and supplement added. Ain't that is basic thing a customer should know?

However this is stretching too far away promoting the people selling BARF. Yes, commercialized barf is whoever making it and sell it. I am not against anybody who is doing that, nor I say any BARF sold out there is not at proper amount, as I did not try them before. I just ask the customer to be aware. Get more info and do not buy BLINDLY. There might be some people taking the opportunity selling cheap BARF!! But I don't mean that they aren't good one out there.
TSWhite Palace
post Dec 13 2008, 01:30 AM

Angel - Top Maltese 2006 @ Best Malaysian Bred In Show
*******
Senior Member
2,309 posts

Joined: May 2006
From: Kepong, Kuala Lumpur



Normally what I do is to get the whole chicken and grind everything in. Once a while I will give my dogs some chicken necks or wings or legs to chew on.

As for the other ingredients, certain ingredients we use it consistently and many we rotates.

A sample recipe for this batch of BARF we did:

The proportions are according to Doctor Ian Billinghurst's formula and the decision made on which ingredients to choose from is based on our group readings and discussions.

I'm striving hard to educates people regarding BARF diets but at the same time learning whatever I yet to know of. So, please acknowledge if there is any suggestion.

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


I do agree that it would be good to give dog owners a choice to get the grinded meat + bones only and let them mix in the rest since some dogs might be allergic to certain ingredients and some owners might prefers to get things done on their own, PROVIDED we make sure they are well educated regarding BARF.

BUT on the other hand, for owners who only own 1 or 2 toy breeds, it might be too costly to get all the other ingredients and supplements, the dog might not be able to finish them before they even expired! Also, some owners might not border to do research before preparing the meals, or thought that missing out certain ingredients is alright and leads to problems which totally forfeit the purpose of feeding BARF diets.

dongdong, I disagree that darker red = use too much liver. My 1st batch of BARF is dark color and liver % is not high, it is due to the apple we place in and apples arent cheap. icon_rolleyes.gif

This post has been edited by White Palace: Dec 13 2008, 01:42 AM
iluv2zzz
post Dec 13 2008, 03:08 AM

Professional Pet Groomer
*******
Senior Member
2,730 posts

Joined: May 2006


LOL I once tried to freeze apple alone, and it works well staying in the original colour... but when I take out, in a while only it turns black LOL... so I obmited apples in the meal, and give them freshly peal as treats tongue.gif
TSWhite Palace
post Dec 13 2008, 04:02 AM

Angel - Top Maltese 2006 @ Best Malaysian Bred In Show
*******
Senior Member
2,309 posts

Joined: May 2006
From: Kepong, Kuala Lumpur



That's why you see I rotates the fruits tongue.gif Pros + Cons lor~ The purpose we use Apple for the 1st batch is because we need some moisture to grind the veges nicely but we do not want to mix water. So we use one of our fruit selection ---> apple. Well, it turns up well and I do not mind the darker color coz all our dogs love it very much! It is an amazing experience feeding BARF. I felt sorry to my dogs coz I fed them kibbles for quite some time. I love to see their "THIS IS WAT I CALL FOOD!!!" expression when feeding them BARF. laugh.gif
PangurBan
post Dec 13 2008, 02:25 PM

On my way
****
Senior Member
584 posts

Joined: Nov 2008
From: Ulaan Baatar, Mongolia


[quote=White Palace,Dec 13 2008, 01:30 AM]
Normally what I do is to get the whole chicken and grind everything in. Once a while I will give my dogs some chicken necks or wings or legs to chew on.

You give your dog eat chicken wing neat not afraid the bone cucuk his tummy meh?

iluv2zzz
post Dec 13 2008, 05:08 PM

Professional Pet Groomer
*******
Senior Member
2,730 posts

Joined: May 2006


QUOTE(White Palace @ Dec 13 2008, 04:02 AM)
That's why you see I rotates the fruits tongue.gif Pros + Cons lor~ The purpose we use Apple for the 1st batch is because we need some moisture to grind the veges nicely but we do not want to mix water. So we use one of our fruit selection ---> apple. Well, it turns up well and I do not mind the darker color coz all our dogs love it very much! It is an amazing experience feeding BARF. I felt sorry to my dogs coz I fed them kibbles for quite some time. I love to see their "THIS IS WAT I CALL FOOD!!!" expression when feeding them BARF. laugh.gif
*
I also find difficulties when blending greens. But I don't care lah, just blend no matter how difficult, when they are mashed, it will auto have the moisture to "run" in the blender. Perhaps you can blend in cucumber since cucumber contain more water.

I have read somewhere not to feed fruits together with vege, I forget where and why already. It says its best to feed fruits at least an hour before or after the main meal. But because of the apple incident, I took away all fruits from the diet, and just add as treat, since I no longer giving commercial treat. *well, trying to finish my last bit of commercial treat though*

I make mix fruits puree (sherbet) as treat tongue.gif
TSWhite Palace
post Dec 13 2008, 08:54 PM

Angel - Top Maltese 2006 @ Best Malaysian Bred In Show
*******
Senior Member
2,309 posts

Joined: May 2006
From: Kepong, Kuala Lumpur



QUOTE(PangurBan @ Dec 13 2008, 02:25 PM)
You give your dog eat chicken wing neat not afraid the bone cucuk his tummy meh?
*
If you are feeding cooked bones, then you need to be very worry cause it makes the bones sharp.

But if you are feeding raw bones, your dog can chew it nicely and your dog's stomach is much more acidic than human's, bones are no problem for them to dissolves at all.

But of corse, no matter what we are feeding or treating our dogs, we must always keep an eye on them. Some dogs love to swallow everything without chewing, this type of dog no matter you are feeding raw or kibbles or giving them chew toys, must keep an eye.
PangurBan
post Dec 14 2008, 10:19 AM

On my way
****
Senior Member
584 posts

Joined: Nov 2008
From: Ulaan Baatar, Mongolia


*well, trying to finish my last bit of commercial treat though*

You're best off tossing it all into the bin. I once came home from one of those dog events at Bandar Utama with bags and bags of those treats (give-aways and prizes). They were so chemical-laden I gave them all away. Should've binned 'em actually.

This post has been edited by PangurBan: Dec 14 2008, 10:20 AM
adreina
post Dec 14 2008, 02:46 PM

Getting Started
**
Junior Member
149 posts

Joined: Oct 2008


Is that feed BARF is much more cheaper than kibbles?
iluv2zzz
post Dec 14 2008, 07:23 PM

Professional Pet Groomer
*******
Senior Member
2,730 posts

Joined: May 2006


QUOTE(PangurBan @ Dec 14 2008, 10:19 AM)
*well, trying to finish my last bit of commercial treat though*

You're best off tossing it all into the bin.  I once came home from one of those dog events at Bandar Utama with bags and bags of those treats (give-aways and prizes).  They were so chemical-laden I gave them all away.  Should've binned 'em actually.
*
Yes you are right they (the commercial treat) should be in the bin. But for some reason I'm keeping it. You may ask why, but then this is more to personal reason. If you insist to know, just pm me, as I see no point telling in this BARF thread.

And regarding the freebies from the events, I do not toss them into the bin, but I gave it to some dog owners who feeding tablescraps, rubbish and also to the dogs that wander around mamak. There are still many dogs that are not eating properly. A not so good kibbles is still anyhow better then leftovers.


Added on December 14, 2008, 7:27 pm
QUOTE(adreina @ Dec 14 2008, 02:46 PM)
Is that feed BARF is much more cheaper than kibbles?
*
It may, or may not cheaper then kibbles tongue.gif If you are feeding normal meats, it may be cheaper.

But I know some that are feeding expensive imported meats, aussie beef, nz mutton, kangaroo, venison, crocodile meat this and that that I have never tasted before too! And if you go on with organic, it is even more to a bomb smile.gif

This post has been edited by iluv2zzz: Dec 14 2008, 07:37 PM
dongdong86
post Dec 14 2008, 09:03 PM

New Member
*
Junior Member
11 posts

Joined: Nov 2008


White Palace,

My dark red refers to dark until a bit greyish. I know apple will make it a bit dark, but actually there is a way to prevent it, try to search on some information.

adreina,

If you want quality, sure it is expensive. high quality meat, bones, vege, fruits, supplements all are not cheap. If you give cheaper alternatives like chicken neck, carcass all those cheap but not so good part, it may be cheaper.

But in long term, you will find it cheap because your dog is more healthy, thus reduce vet expenses. This is one of the reason why most vet dont recommend BARF as they will not have so many business. They recommend Hill's. Summore, you dog live longer.
PangurBan
post Dec 14 2008, 09:50 PM

On my way
****
Senior Member
584 posts

Joined: Nov 2008
From: Ulaan Baatar, Mongolia


*Yes you are right they (the commercial treat) should be in the bin. But for some reason I'm keeping it. You may ask why, but then this is more to personal reason. If you insist to know, just pm me, as I see no point telling in this BARF thread.*

No need. I'm not on a BARF crusade or an anti-commercial dog food crusade biggrin.gif. Anyway, I don't feed my dog 100% BARF. Sometimes I'll cook her a beef stew or a pilaf with millet and amaranth and all sorts of things in it, and I bake her treats with liver and stuff in it. I avoid the commercial stuff for the same reason I avoid putting processed food into my own stomach. But loads of people pump that stuff into their bodies and loads of people feed their dogs only processed food. Such is life.
dongdong86
post Dec 14 2008, 10:01 PM

New Member
*
Junior Member
11 posts

Joined: Nov 2008


I am pursuing a life like yours, but it needs $$$
iluv2zzz
post Dec 15 2008, 01:00 AM

Professional Pet Groomer
*******
Senior Member
2,730 posts

Joined: May 2006


QUOTE(PangurBan @ Dec 14 2008, 09:50 PM)
*Yes you are right they (the commercial treat) should be in the bin. But for some reason I'm keeping it. You may ask why, but then this is more to personal reason. If you insist to know, just pm me, as I see no point telling in this BARF thread.*

No need.  I'm not on a BARF crusade or an anti-commercial dog food crusade biggrin.gif.  Anyway, I don't feed my dog 100% BARF.  Sometimes I'll cook her a beef stew or a pilaf with millet and amaranth and all sorts of things in it, and I bake her treats with liver and stuff in it.  I avoid the commercial stuff for the same reason I avoid putting processed food into my own stomach.  But loads of people pump that stuff into their bodies and loads of people feed their dogs only processed food.  Such is life.
*
FYI I don't do BARF tongue.gif I do HCF (homecook food) but I came across a lot BARF when I doing my research. So I am just sharing with what I know. Generally most ingredient in BARF and HCF are similar. The major different is the preparation, proportion, and the bone tongue.gif

Perhaps we should have another proper thread for HCF includes all the treat baking recipe. Planning to bake some this week.

Alright, back to BARF. other then Dr.B that dongdong and yang said, what about Pitcairn? Anybody have a copy of Dr.Pitcairn's Complete Guide to Natural Health for dogs n cats?

http://www.drpitcairn.com/books/pitcairn_book.html

This post has been edited by iluv2zzz: Dec 15 2008, 01:02 AM
PangurBan
post Dec 15 2008, 01:11 AM

On my way
****
Senior Member
584 posts

Joined: Nov 2008
From: Ulaan Baatar, Mongolia


QUOTE(dongdong86 @ Dec 14 2008, 10:01 PM)
I am pursuing a life like yours, but it needs $$$
*
Not very much more really, if not less. It's a whole lifestyle - I opt out of the consumer culture as much as possible. (that's the equivalent of processed food I think) and save some money there. As I think you have suggested in an earlier post in this thread with reference to dogs, you might pay more for good quality fresh produce, but in the long run, you save on medical bills AND more importantly, you (or your dog) are happy and healthy. At least, that's the ideal situation. Real life of course, is more complicated than that. As far as feeding my dog BARF and home-cooked food is concerned, I think I'm only spending marginally more than if I were to get her good quality kibble. But no money can buy the satisfaction you get from seeing your dog chomp with relish on the food you've prepared for her.

28 Pages « < 4 5 6 7 8 > » Top
 

Change to:
| Lo-Fi Version
0.0370sec    0.44    6 queries    GZIP Disabled
Time is now: 5th December 2025 - 02:44 AM