Here are the clans and teams that participated in the meeting.

Team FFF - Warlo - 3 votes
Team SwL - Grr, pr8sh & pixy - 2 votes
Team NX, NX2, NX3 - Psycho, Gangster & AkiGod - 3 Votes
Team PAR - Mama - 1 Vote
Team XEF Lulz, Fcuk., NaaBs - Sync, Silver & aKa - 3 Votes
Team Project [VTS], [XXX] - Kaiser & BigBoss - 2 Votes
Team H2o - D3ath - 1 vote
Team RnF - Rie, mello & goofy - 1 vote
Team FsN - T3q - 1 vote
Team ESP eMo,eGo,aXe,oNe - Sanction, Phyo, Holyboy, Death - 4 Votes

Total Clans 10, Number of votes - 21
*Each vote represents the number of teams or reps representing those teams. Each team is entitled to 1 vote.*

Agenda - Ruleset Changes
- Here are some of the changes agreed upon by the council -

1. Dead Silence Removal - 14 votes FOR
2. C4 Reinstatement x1 - 12 votes FOR
3. Broadcast SnD - 16 votes FOR
4. Crash SnD - 12 votes FOR
5. Ambush DOM - 18 votes FOR
6. Countdown TDM - 11 votes FOR
7. Defuse/Plant time, 5-7 - 20 votes FOR
8. SMG Limit 3 - 16 votes FOR
9. Bomb Drops - No votes - TBA
10. Music Removal - 18 votes FOR
11. Strat Time change to 15 - 19 votes FOR
12. Forfeiture allowed for DOM - No Contest
13. Scroll Attack Ban - No Contest

- Dead Silence Removal -
The Majority of the council agreed upon the unbalance state of the perk Dead Silence when thoroughly abused by players. As most players use headsets, the Dead Silence perk renders them less effective or not effective at all. There are plans to reinstate Dead Silence in the future when a code is created to limit perks to classes is done. (Making Dead Silence a Spec Ops only Perk)

- C4 Reinstatement x1 -
C4 is now available as a perk however, it has only 1 charge. C4 was initially removed as many teams stacked it with claymores in the HQ gamemode as a mode of defence, which many teams found unbalanced. C4 is now reinstated with only 1 charge instead of 2 in hopes of being a more balanced perk.

- Broadcast SnD -
Broadcast SnD was initially a trial for gamers to try in SnD. Majority voted to keep broadcast in with the removal of Dead Silence from the perk list.
Broadcast is now an official map for the SnD game mode.

- Crash SnD -
Crash is now a "map for testing" for the SnD mode, while Countdown will replace Crash as a TDM map. Crash was initially thought to be a good SnD map, having multiple levels of buildings and varied amounts of cover on both defensive and offensive teams. It is now in testing to see if its a viable addition to the SnD game mode.

- Ambush DOM -
A Majority of the council agreed upon the need to add additional maps for the DOM game mod. Ambush was chosen for its near symetrical design, very close to what bloc is built upon. This map is also in "testing",.

- Countdown TDM -
As Crash becomes SnD, Countdown will replace Crash as TDM. This map was chosen for its symetrical design and level terrain. This tests the teams skill and allows spectators to view what is happening much easier. This is a for spectator map, basically it makes the play faster and more interesting.

- 5-7 Defuse/Plant Time -
Planting time has been reduced to 5 seconds to give planters an advantage in defensive SnD maps, while defusing has been reduced to 7 seconds to even the odds. Originally, both were 8.

- SMG Limit to 3 -
The amount of SMG classes are now limited to 3.

- Bomb dropping -
Bombs will be droppable once the codes are done, TBA.

- In-game Music -
Ambient Music is removed.

- Strat Time Increased to 15 -
Strat time is increased to 15 to allow teams to eventually talk after a round ends. Since the "dead talking" is now heavily enforced, the strat time now(originally 12) should give teams enough time to strat.

- Forfeiture allowed for Domination Maps -
Teams are now allowed to forfeit a Dom map once they pass the 8 minute mark. All they need to do is declare forfeiture to the marshals and they will automatically lose that map. This is to give organizers buffer time and also allow weaker teams in Dom to actually try the next map.

- Scroll Attack -
No players are allowed to bind attack keys to the scrolls mouse. This should disallow the rapid fire scroll attack for the G3, M14 and Pistols.

On a personal note, the turn up was pretty good. Although i would have wanted more input from other teams, the 20 over people that came including players gave very good feedback and remarks. In the future i hope more clans will participate in these meetings.

I would like to thank all those who attended yesterday.

Thank you,
With Regards,

Brian
[ESP].Death
[ESP] Gaming,

This post has been edited by crashtec: Nov 9 2008, 02:04 AM

There goes my fav perk

My love for Brian grows stronger and stronger everyday... My hate for scroll-wheelers and people calling me a scroll-wheeler grows stronger and stronger too. Suck on it, cheaters.

owh.. ur spacebar spamming trick was also discussed.. i believe its banned too

'Team RnF - Rie & Enzo - 1 vote'

should be ' Team RnF - Rie, goofy and mello - 1 vote' haha XD

Yesterday, we came of us only. Rie, goofy and mello. haha. Enzo wasn't coming cause his lazy. Here goes his fav perk banned. hahaha. Too bad enzo.
YAY! c4 FTW!

wad abt this uber bind i made??
bind 2 "+attack;wait 10;-attack;wait 10;+attack;wait 10;-attack;wait 10;+attack;wait 10;-attack;wait 10;+attack;wait 10;-attack;wait 10;+attack;wait 10;-attack;wait 10;+attack;wait 10;-attack;wait 10;+attack;-attack;-attack
if u tweak the wait time a bit u can increase the spd ur deagle shoots

WTF. GTFO. I DON'T SEE IT IN THE RULES. TELL ME THAT'S A LIE.

Is that all? I was expecting moar changes...

Then you should've went for the meeting.

Crash SnD - 12 votes FOR
Countdown TDM - 11 votes FOR
C4 Reinstatement x1 - 12 votes FOR

menang sikit sahaja..
possible to revise it?

Yeah we'll be using the November period to test it out. If is not okay, then during Jan season open again the marshalls might consider to remove it again.

means no more bloc for DOM ? and the main map for snd that we;re gonna play is broadcast, and crash only ?

Four SnD map, Two Domination map and Countdown as TDM.

SnD is Broadcast, Backlot, Strike and Crash.
Domination is Bloc and Ambush.

o.O thank youuu...

wow !!! we had more map to training ... lol ~~~

This post has been edited by dumb: Nov 9 2008, 12:44 AM

They've taken everything from me...

Dead silence
3 SMG..

Team 2 might as well retire now...

Well, after the first 2 weeks of the league, it will be revised (including all rule changes and current rules) in time for the reopening of the league in Jan.

As been discussed... the way to Tembak only on your mouse that can be click.. I don't know how to explain, but it must be there, can't be in your keyboard as well..

Go ahead we won't miss you.

Kekeke~

What the crack nuggets... Should've stayed and put forth my case about keyboard shooting D:

Didn't say also seems Brian already know the answer lol. Chill la, make it fair to everyone who still use old skool shooting by clicking

D: What, I only spam with keyboard cause sometimes spamming with mouse can handicap you (double finger spamming). Unless I practice using my fourth finger to ADS and my second and third are always on shoot XD.

Nah, if spam it using left and right click button are allowed

I'm saying you'll be handicapped in a way if you do or if you're not used to it, cause that takes a long time to get used to lol.

Hmm no moar dead silence yey.

This post has been edited by Echo: Nov 9 2008, 12:49 PM

ure face is handicapped........randomzooooor =P
havent seen u in a while. hows fsn going? heard u improved

Sigh, I kenot come coz...

1. No transport
2. I'm not a team leader...

So is the rules finalized?

Im actually if anyone actually suggested vacant as a tourney map. Tight spaces, lots of CQB.

I was suggested that 1 on that day, and it's categorized as "imba" map, u can nade from spawn to spawn. I don't really agree Crash though...

Correct me if I'm wrong... but I think that whoever spawns at the marine's spawn in Crash will have a slight advantage over the enemy.

whut? Crash is SnD... so what do u mean, everyone who spawns?

Countdown is kinda blek for me. I dont know why though, it just seems unfriendly. Heh. Vacant tdm isnt that bad, unless im wrong.

Strike for SnD sounds okish, though might be kinda tough in a way.

But yes, i believe crash gives marine side alil more advantage cause you can get to the 3 floor building first and literary camp protect there. While you can get a sniper to cover the entire alley alone provided he is confident in his sniping.

This post has been edited by Echo: Nov 9 2008, 10:13 PM

By the time you reach third floor, people won't be around the heli area anymore. You can hold from there, but if you're playing with good people, they won't just run around middle.

And just smoke the alley to disable the sniper. Now the map's balanced.

No one said attacking was easy.

I would like to see District being introduced though. That's a nice map

This post has been edited by Strayfah: Nov 9 2008, 11:52 PM

For those who think that Countdown TDM is a stupid, silly, dumb or <insertthelabelhere>, I'm hereby to let you know why Countdown TDM is being introduced as the new TDM map. The TDM map wasn't even suppose to "exist". It's like football extra time after 90th minute. You won't be able to play it unless you lost.. let say SnD and you won Domination. That's the situation where you'll need to play Countdown TDM. And the reason why Countdown TDM was being picked because there's not complication like Crash, where you can hide in the 3 story building or any of the second floor building. TDM are meant to be tie breaker.

Ish muaa explanation good enough? <3

EDIT: Added the bold.

This post has been edited by Belphegor: Nov 10 2008, 12:07 AM

haha, yay, got people do work for me! XD

even if u r not a team leader u can come to make urself heard n give good opinions but ur vote would not be accounted for.we need people to join in on the healthy debate on the issues brought up so that better decisions can be made.if u think u r experienced enough in cod4 to give ur opinion on it u should come.

Sigh. It's too late already, is it?

Ah well, if I did come, I'll probably make my 2 cents suggestions to beef up underpowered weapons (exp MP44) and nerf overpowered weapons like P90 etc. instead of banning them from tourneys.... you know, removing too much things from the game ain't gonna be fun.

Thank you for that explanation, it pretty much clears it up for me.

Then you'd be shot down. Not only by me, but by almost everyone, I can assure you. Firstly, there isn't enough time to do the changes. Secondly, there isn't enough time to do testing. For the p90, you'd have to lower the clip size to even balance the thing AT ALL. Plus, you have the casual gamer to think about. People who aren't in clans will wonder why their version of the game is different compared to the ones they play in tournaments. There are reasons why the banned weapons are banned weapons. And besides, I'd like to remind you that almost all the other weapons are available except for the auto-snipers (they are also banned for a reason). People just don't want to use them for various reasons. Balance everything and eventually almost all guns will be the same. Now that'll be FUN FUN FUN!*

*hint of sarcasm if you haven't caught it already

why u guys debating and voting over the rules, christ......league organisers just set the rules and teams if u dont like it QQ and dont play lor. (:

my 2 cents.

This post has been edited by [XEF]-No Fear.my: Nov 10 2008, 05:45 PM

*I have no intention to start a flame bait, so plz don't take offence to whatever I'm about to type, or I'll just shoot myself *

- Well yea, you're right about that. That's why a 1-2 hours meeting isn't enough to implement all the changes needed to balance the game. We should slowly implement changes over time and test em out before the next big tourney comes around the corner (next year's WGT, WCG? )

- There are a lot more variables in the game than just "clip size". You've got other stuffs in the game to consider about too (weapon's damage, damage reduction over range, gun sway, damage multiplier to the certain parts of the body, penetration, weapon differences with various attachments, recoil, recoil center speed, primary weapon's movement speed & sprint duration, ammo share, rate of fire etc). There are practically tons of methods to torture overpowered weapons.

- Promod/Pam4/<insertmodhere> had already altered weapons in the game, I don't see what's wrong with it.

- And that's the very reason why I want to nerf them so that nobody will complain about em.

- Yes, I'm very aware of that. Thx for the reminder.

- *Ahem*. *Cough*Cough*. I believe that I've mentioned the word "balance" instead of "duplicate" in my previous posts? If I have any intention to create duplicate weapons with different skins, it would defeat the very purpose of having a variety of weapons in the first place right?

Cheers,
Wacko inside...

P.S. Although I don't really agree with the R&R, I accept it coz it's already finalized

This post has been edited by Luftwacko: Nov 10 2008, 05:54 PM

At the end of the day, you shoot to kill. If the gun can't kill, don't use it. Simple. Not all guns were made to be balanced. In that case, no one would win a war.

- Oh yes. All those things matter as much as the clip size for the mini LMG. I'm saying the first thing you need to do is fix the clip size. p.s. Please read my post properly for full assimilation of information. kthx.

- I'm sure you could furnish me with some facts if I asked for it. I know Promod has already altered weapons, but Pam4? Educate me.

- Yeah, sure. Let's see how many people will use the M21 if it does 2 dmg per shot. Nerf/Ban = Same Result. No one will use it.

- Oh yeah. Let's balance what hardly anybody will use anyway. =/

Here. Let's repeat for emphasis. Let's put all our effort into balancing something that hardly anybody uses anyway.

would i use a nerfed p90?i dont think so...to find the right balance to the extend that the gun is not nerfed to useless is very hard especially when we have many other issues to focus on.

changing
debate
changing
debate

are we getting anywhere?

Grr is sexay when he's annoyed and irritated. LOL.

Me here ish jz bout happ-ay to play as long as it s not promod, no sway, glide running gheyness with no muzzle flashy.

Unless the in game models/skins can pull a 'flash' ahh.... now dats a very different 'muzzle' flash XD

Chill every1. Lets play with the new R&R update n see how thing goes.
COD4 is still less than 1 year old here. The community is still young. Always room for feedback & improvement if it is agreed upon later.

luftwacko the decision have been made....so no point whining about it.....train up your skill and adept to the changes

This post has been edited by Pro-MX: Nov 10 2008, 07:01 PM

omg
wraith
i was so wrong about you...

that "muzzle" flash is something that shouldnt be allowed at all T_T
imagine marines and op for flashign their muzzles at each other ..

OMG no fear long time no seee... how r u dude..

anyway regarding all the changes, i will accept em without prejudice.. time to train my skills without ds

when dat happens... worldpeace will be achieved. and pigs will be flying over the moon.

roxxor.....all we have 2 do is play with the current ruleset. If they is anything anybody finds *imbalance* all we have to do is have another meeting........AFTER the tourney

This post has been edited by [ESP].quack: Nov 10 2008, 08:59 PM

Rofl Yeah I have a nub-face ( ) <-- The face of a nub. Umm FsN is goin fine thanks for asking, and I've improved <3 I guess LULz, not good enough to counter-rush to almighty Quack yet But I'm getting there, soon I'll be known as the duck-eater! The duck-eating-turtle! Or Green-Mean-Terawr!... Okay I'll stop (High on Coffee EHEHEHEHEHEHEHE)

Again, grats on WGT, I'm still eager to find out what you guys won lol, apparently, no one has any news on it.

Are you kidding, I saw someone get to third floor once in a scrim as soon as I did the plank jump, and I was pretty damn fast in getting there.

You should distribute those comment things you find at fancy restaurants Haha "Rate our service", "How was the food (Rigs)", "What can be improved?", "How many times were you tubed today?"

Just a suggestion, but then again that would lead to extra costs.

Chill guys chill. Oh wait, that's the wrong thing to say.

Ye bastiches should be shot i tell ye!!

There slightly better. Let's try again.

Yer all whiners and noobs. Hmmm nope not yet there.

But back on topic, doesn't matter what the rules are, but what Grr is trying to say through the 6 feet of sarcasm is:

"If a weapon that no one uses is nerfed, no one is going to use it STILL."

On a personal note, weapons wise; i think people tend to lean towards highpoweredweaponry>accuracy>clip size

Plank =/= Middle. He'd be too busy checking the whole place before checking the plank.

It's not my fault if you opt to run through heli or arches and get shot down from the third floor.

Luft, the weapon changes cannot be done too soon. Honestly speaking, the p90 ban is there because there just too much to tweak to balance it out. You tweak it too much, it becomes a different weapon. The more you tweak it, most likely it will turn into a promod weapon.

50 ammo is still imba for a SMG and with the ROF of a LMG and the move speed of a sniper(std 1.0) its just too much to account for. The ban most probably wont be lifted until IW themselves change the gun. The reason why it takes so many levels to get a p90 tells you that its meant to be a little imba over the rest of the SMGs. >.< (they just HAD to add an imba weapon to make it worth leveling your profile online)

Although it would have been possible for you to bring it up in the R&R meeting, i would say that a majority will still not like it OR everyone will use it. By adding 1 weapon, you reduce the tendency of players using other weapons instead. So rather than adding 1 weapon and forfeiting the rest, i would rather forfeit 1 weapon and allow the rest to continually be used.

I humbly apologise for turning this thread up in flames.

Sorry.

I'm not asking for your forgiveness. If I had worded my posts properly, none of these responses would have occured in the first place.

This post has been edited by Luftwacko: Nov 11 2008, 05:54 PM

*Guys, it'll all be better if we think before we post so we don't have to apologize in the future. Then again, a more logical cause of action is to report the people who instigate the flames so we never have to hear from them ever again. Quote from a TV series : "Sheldon, it's okay to be smarter than everyone but you can't go pointing it out." "Why not?" "CAUSE PEOPLE DON'T LIKE IT."*

@ Crashtec : IMO this game was made for 'FUN' not for 'Competition'. Cause most of the weapons are not balanced or obsolete. The P90 is actually doing what it's supposed to do, being imba. It's even imba in real life, so there's enough said here.

@ Strayfah : Hmm IMO we should have a ground runner spraying the plank at the start of the rush then lul Then again, there's a nade from spawn where you can actually hit the 3rd story. Not telling where, for those who know; good for you :3. Same like there's a nade from defense spawn that can actually go into blue. That, or smoke the heli.

Hard to see lar Kura! Use another color like blue or something!

You're meant to highlight it lol

hightlight ure FACE........randomzorrr.....dude heard u participating in Skoth4. Good luck =D, record ure game and impress me