Any comments/feedbacks from the Malaysian students studying there?




Thursday August 7, 2008 MYT 4:18:55 PM

By P. VIJIAN


NEW DELHI: In an abrupt move, the Medical Council of India (MCI) has said that it will not recognise medical degrees offered by India's leading Manipal University, citing lack of clinical facilities and flouting of regulations.

Last week the MCI, a regulatory body of medical institutions, announced its decision not to recognise the Bachelor of Medicine and Bachelor of Surgery (MBBs) courses offered in the university's Kasturba Medical Colleges in Manipal and Mangalore.

"There were several inadequacies in the college which would not allow students to benefit completely from the course," a senior MCI official was quoted as saying.

But responding to MCI's action, Manipal University's ProChancellor Dr H.S Ballal said that although the MCI had derecognised the institution, the ultimate decision would depend on the Health Ministry.

"We have written to the Health Ministry and they have sent a team to observe the university. They wanted a compliance report from us.

"We have submitted the report and the matter is still pending. We hope to get a reply within two to three weeks. We hope the matter will be resolved in favour of us," Dr Ballal told Bernama.

Manipal is popular among Malaysian students and this year 54 students have enrolled for the MBBS and dentistry courses.

Established in 1953, Kasturba, the first private medical college in India, is among the top 10 medical colleges in the country and has the largest concentration of foreign students, from over 50 countries.

Five government medical colleges in Madhya Pradesh are also on the MCI's black list. - Bernama

heh? my friend a JPA scholar is there... so is a lot of self paid msian students... now they are doomed?

Haih, dun worry, only degree from KMC is affected. Degree from MMMC (the twinning programme) is still recognized.
Same incident occurred back in 2005, due to large amount of foreign students studying in the U, exceeding the quota set by the MCI. However, the ruling was later overturned by the Ministry of Health, India.
Ministry of Health, India has the final verdict.
This is actually a political issue. Think of it this way, how can a medical college which is ranked top 10 consistently in India lacks of clinical facilities? Does it make sense?

This post has been edited by hypermax: Aug 7 2008, 05:39 PM

Technically speaking, it just means that the degree from there is not recognized by India. However whether Malaysia chooses to recognize the degree still or not is another thing.

de-recognition by the imc means graduates cannot register with imc to practice medicine.......and this will apply to the branch at malaka as well, as the awarding body for mmmc is the parent manipal in india......

this just means graduates cannot register and practice in india.......but the malaysian medical council still at this point still recognise the degree, and graduates still can register and practice in msia......but this sets an unusual precedent, where the parent country does not recognise, whereas a foreign country recognises the qualification.....and begs the question, is the uni serving their own country, or a foreign country.....

this scenerio will NEVER happen in the developed world......

be that as it may, the fact that a statutory body like the imc should express enough doubts about the med school to delist it, suggest all is not right......there is obviously a problem.....

That's y KMC is having trouble getting into the Schedule of recognised medical schools of the SMC.

Don't you think the heading is a little misleading? It literally means MMC has derecognized the degree from Manipal U while apparently, the issue is exclusively with MCI.
But i guess MMC will wait until the final verdict is out before making any decision.

well, it's too soon to tell isnt it? if they only announced the derecognition today, malaysia shouldnt hastily jump on the bandwagon as well. we have 54 students currently studying there, so it would only be wise if malaysia would send a team to evaluate manipal university ourselves and see if we agree or not with the derecognition.

Since they are sending JPA scholars to Manipal, it is unlikely that they will derecognise it.

well, it has happened before for architecture. so it's not entirely unprecedented.

and hasnt the same thing happened to russian medical schools before?

Haha, forever bashing 3rd world countries' medical schools and how superior is his first world med degree.

in what way was what i said bashing 3rd world countries and med school?.......what did i say that wasn't factual......? do you even know where i graduated from??

This post has been edited by limeuu: Aug 7 2008, 07:58 PM

my jpa friend scholar there...i dont think the degree not recognize

As i have stated before, this is not the first time it happens. Back in 2005, same issue occured because of the intake of foreign students exceeded the quota set by MCI (More than 60% of the students in MBBS program were foreigners). It was resolved as the Indian Ministry of Health overturned the decision made by MCI. So the final verdict lies in the hand of the Indian Ministry of Health.

Btw, does it make sense that a school consistently ranked in the top 10 suddenly got de-recognized due the "lack of facilities"?

Also, KMC is still listed in IMED. So it has yet to be officially de-recognized by the Indian Government. Link

Pls do a info search before you jump to conclusion.

Oh, btw, MMMC's degree is never recognized in India, as there is no Indian national studying in MMMC. It is in fact a malaysian degree.

---

Added on August 7, 2008, 8:10 pmWell, i think it's about time you share with all of us where you graduated from. It has remained a mystery for a very long time.

This post has been edited by hypermax: Aug 7 2008, 08:24 PM

imed listing means nothing, as far as sovereign rights of individual countries to recognise degrees for registration is concerned.......they are completely different things....

mmmc is awarded by the university of manipal, which is an indian university, therefore it's degree is an indian degree.......if what you say is true, that it's msian version of their degree is NOT recognised in india, that is worrying.......

other foreign universities with branch campuses in msia all award degrees fully recognised in their parent country.........ie monash, pmc/irish med schools, including other professional degrees like pharmacy etc.....

i don't know why people are so defensive about this matter..........it obvious strike a sore point.....perhaps the intrinsic realisation that there is indeed a problem with certain medical schools......i didn't invent there issues........

For an institution to be listed as "recognized" in IMED, it must first be recognized by the country where it is situated. There's no such thing as a school being listed in IMED as "recognized" while it is not recognized by the country of origin. The last time when KMC was de-recognized, its status in the IMED was written as "de-recognized".

Link 1 Link 2
As listed in IMED, both schools' graduation years are "current", which means they are recognized by the country of origin. As i have stated before, the final verdict lies in the Indian Ministry of Health (damn, i am beginning to sound like a broken radio).

As funny as it sounds, but India only recognizes medical institutions which have a sizable amount of Indian nationals. I am not sure how the recognition in India works but i am pretty sure that MMMC is not recognized by India. Also, many western institutions are not recognized by India.

Degree from PMC is not recognized by Ireland. Under IMED, PMC is listed as a distinct institution, which means that PMC's degree is actually a degree of its own. That's also the reason why PMC is not recognized by Singapore Medical Council, while the partner schools are recognized. In addition, Irish medical council only recognizes 5 Irish institutions, of which PMC is not included. The 5 schools are:

University of Dublin
Royal College of Surgeons in Ireland
University College Cork
University College Dublin
National University of Ireland, Galway

Also, you are wrong about MMMC's degree. It is a Malaysian degree, i can assure you, and MMMC is listed under Malaysia in IMED. Link Therefore, even though KMC is de-recognized, MMMC will still be recognized by Malaysia. You can call/email MMMC or Malaysia Medical Council regarding this matter.

I am not defensive about this matter, it's just that you have the wrong concept of the whole thing. I am here to correct you.

Btw, are you going to reveal where you graduated from? I wonder why are you so secretive about it?

This post has been edited by hypermax: Aug 8 2008, 12:42 AM

whether msia recognizes it or not.. it would bring a reflect badly on the students that went there and those currently practicing in msia after graduating

imagine graduating from a uni where the home country's gov dont recognize it.. outsiders will have a say in this matter

Even if it's recognised by the JPA or MMC, you cannot run away from the fact that you graduated from a lousy school. Yes, you may find a job locally. But you may not be as competent as your peers.

What you say are usually "obvious truths". So you don't really have to rephrase it in a way that could send those people you insulted banging balls.

Usually you sound like a kangaroo. But from this sentence, you may have graduated from a third world country lol.

This post has been edited by edge85: Aug 8 2008, 02:09 AM

yupp its happen w those fr Japan before in 2005
they were re-attached with local Meds Uni for re-test and supervise



waa .. a lot of my friends fr mannipal ..
but to be judge competent or not .. It Is Individual

recognition and derecognition doesnt affect retroactively. meaning if u've graduated before the date of derecognition, it should be fine, bcoz before that it was recognized.

it's the same if a school is recognized in 2008, and if u graduate in 2007, doesnt mean ur degree will automatically be recognized. usually the recognizing body will have a specific statement on what is and what is not recognized.

i dunno why i bother............maybe i should just let you all wallow in your own misconceptions and misinformation.........

i wish you should leave that crutch called the imed, and stop thinking that being listed there is all important.......

as far as manipal is concerned, this thing just happened days ago.........you expect imed to delist it immediately? you obviously don't know how this thing works.......

pmc does NOT award any degree.....graduates gets the MB BCh BAO degrees of the National University of Ireland (NUI) as well as with the Licentiates of the Royal College of Surgeons in Ireland and the Royal College of Physicians of Ireland. They are registerable of course in Ireland.......pmc homesite is down so alternatively, nah: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penang_Medical_College

and you are 'correcting' me??!

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Added on August 8, 2008, 8:55 amin one swift blow, you insulted me, contradicted yourself, insulted people in 'lousy school' after criticizing me of bashing 3rd world schools...........

and what's this obsession about where i come from anyway?.....i thought it is not important, and it is how the individual proves himself that is important??? so now where one graduates from becomes important again?.........

This post has been edited by limeuu: Aug 8 2008, 08:55 AM

erm, Singapore Medical Council does not recognise PMC bcos PMC clinicals is done outside Ireland,
But if clincials is done in the country where the medical degrees are recognised, eg UK, Ireland, then the degree will be recognised by SMC lor. that's the case for IMU-PMS.

This post has been edited by wgy589: Aug 8 2008, 10:35 AM

Yes, i am correcting you. So you think you are always right and no one is qualified to correct you?

IMED is a directory where the status of medical schools are being listed upon recognition by the countries of origin as well as approval from WHO. In order to take PLAB and USMLE, one's school has to be listed and its graduation year must be current. Therefore, being listed as recognized in IMED means the school is currently recognized by the country of origin as well as WHO.
IMED is pretty prompt about the recognition status. Back in 2005, when both KMCs were de-recognized, it was listed so in IMED immediately, even before the media reported it. It was, however, overturned by the Indian Ministry of Health. Therefore, as long as Indian Ministry of Health still recognizes KMC, graduates from KMC are still registrable in India. We shall see in the upcoming days any change in the IMED listing, then we will know who's right.

No, PMC's degree is not registrable in Ireland, as it is not a full degree from its partner schools. Unlike IMU twinning, the degrees awarded are full degrees from the partner schools, and are virtually indistinguishable from those of the full course. This is what i've been told by a student from PMC. If you can find a concrete evidence about PMC being registrable in Ireland, pls post here.

Also, all this while, you have been b****ing about how bad local med schools and those of the 3rd world are. It makes people wonder where are you from exactly. If you are from a 3rd world medical school, whatever you said will have more weight, as you have been through the system and you know its loopholes and weaknesses.

This post has been edited by hypermax: Aug 8 2008, 03:38 PM

eh.........you are saying the pmc website is lying through it's teeth.......?

Is it stated anywhere on the web site that its degree is registrable in Ireland?
Also, if Moscow state medical can lie about their school being ranked no. 2 worldwide, why not PMC?
Oh, btw, the article on Wiki is not reliable, as the article does not cite any references or sources.
Btw, where did you graduate from?

This post has been edited by hypermax: Aug 8 2008, 03:42 PM

now you are accusing pmc of deliberately lying......wow........talk about badmouthing rivals......

the pmc site is down, so this will have to do, if you don't trust wiki.....http://www.rcsi.ie/index.jsp?1nID=93&pID=97&nID=1118

the degree is irish......so you will have to show us where is it ever stated the pmc pathway one is NOT recognised in ireland......

I can however show you that the pmc pathway is NOT recognised by smc........just go to the smc website.......

Nah, i never view them as my rival. In fact, training there should be better than Manipal, since the students there spent their pre clinical years in Ireland. I was just saying that even if they lied, there's no big deal to it, as according to you, Moscow state medical also lied about being ranked 2nd worldwide on its web site.

As i have stated before, i was told as such by a PMC student. Also, i have provided the list of Irish schools being recognized and registrable in Ireland, of which PMC is not included. Just go and check out Irish Medical Council web site yourself if you dun believe.
About the entry in wiki, it is stated by the wiki that the article is not reliable as it doesn't cite any sources or references. I didn't say those words.

Yeah, i know that PMC is not recognized by SMC, as i have stated that in my previous post. Pls dun repeat what i have stated.

This post has been edited by hypermax: Aug 8 2008, 06:19 PM

imc site says NOTHING about not recognising the irish degree from the pmc pathway.....in fact there is NO SUCH THING AS A PMC DEGREE.....

you did not say anything about smc not recognising, wgy589 said it just a few posts above...

Dude, pls read my post properly.

There are two possible reasons why the web site says nothing about PMC:
1. It is not recognized
2. Its degree is full degree from its partner schools.

If it is option 2, how come SMC doesn't recognize PMC?

This post has been edited by hypermax: Aug 8 2008, 06:26 PM

i stand corrected......

but the fact remains, there is NO pmc degree......its the Mb BCh BAO from NUI.........

If there's no degree from PMC, why it is listed as a distinct entity in IMED? How come IMU's PMS program is not listed in IMED as a distinct entity?

stop arguing would be wise a move now. heh.
PMC= rich dudes
MMMC= average-income dudes+ some are good,some are average,some are just lousy
1st world med schools (hate that labeling)= rich dudes+majority of them are good
But all will graduate as doctors that are equally competent,inquisitive, and caring.
We shud instead share amongst ourself what we've learnt in our respective colleges so we can know what's lacking in us.
you may be complete, but u'r not perfect

there is NO degree from pmc......



School Name
PENANG MEDICAL COLLEGE
University Name
National University of Ireland
School Address
PLEASE REFER TO CONTACT INFORMATION
IRELAND
Phone
Data not currently available.
Fax
Data not currently available.
Email
Data not currently available.
Contacts
DEAN
4, JALAN SEPOY LINES
10450 PULAU PINANG
MALAYSIA
+60-4-226-3459 (phone)
+60-4-227-6529 (fax)
medfaculty@pmc.edu.my

DEAN
C/O UNIVERSITY COLLEGE DUBLIN
EARLSFORT TERRACE
DUBLIN 2
IRELAND

Website
http://www.pmc.edu.my
Former Official Names of Medical School/University
Not Applicable

Degree Title
MB, BCh, BAO
Graduation Years
1996 - Current
Year Instruction Began
1996
Language of Instruction
English
Duration of the Curriculum
5-6 years
Entrance Examination Requirement
No
Foreign (Non-National) Students Eligible
Yes
Total Enrollment
Data not currently available.
Notes
Penang Medical College, Royal College of Surgeons in Ireland (RCSI) and University College Dublin (UCD) offer the Irish Medical Program of Penang Medical College. The program combines pre-clinical training in Ireland at either RCSI or UCD with clinical training at Penang Hospital, Malaysia. The medical degree is awarded by the National University of Ireland.

Yes, it is awarded by NUI, but not a full degree from RCSI and UCD as stated above. MMMC's degree is also awarded by Manipal University, but not a full degree from KMC.

If you are working in a gov hospital, you would have noticed that people from PMC actually have stamps which look like this:
MB, BCh, BAO (PMC) instead of MB, BCh, BAO (RCSI)

As for graduates of MMMC
MBBS (MMMC), not MBBS (KMC)

Back to the topic of Manipal, there are several points I like to clarify:
1. Both KMC Manipal and Mangalore have yet to be officially de-recognized by the Indian Government. The final verdict lies in the hands of Indian MoH, not Indian Medical Council.

2. De-recognition due to excessive foreign students (mostly Indian from USA), not lack of facilities. For those of you who have been to Manipal or have friends there, you would know that the facilities are top notch, even superior than that of Malaysia from certain aspects (but definitely better than Melaka GH). The quota set for foreign students is only 40%, yet currently there are more than 60% of foreigners in both KMCs.

3. Degree from MMMC is not affected at all, as MMMC is a separate school, with its quality and syllabus being approved by Manipal University, as well as MMC and LAN.


This post has been edited by hypermax: Aug 8 2008, 06:57 PM

one of the issues for parents of potential students at pmc is whether the pmc pathway awards in any way, a different category of degree from the home uni........and it is clearly stated in the prospectus that the degree is the same, and there is nothing on the paper itself indicating which pathway the graduate comes through......and it is registrable with the mci......

it is the same for the monash malaysia mbbs, it will be silent as to the campus (they have 3 for medicine), and is fully recognised by the amc.........

i know all this because i have examined all these options very carefully for a relative who is considering the options......

there is no need to argue.....

i don't know about mbbs(manipal), as it was not on our short list, it would however make little difference, since both pathways don't get you very far anyway internationally......

Then perhaps you should give a call/email to PMC and ask properly. If not, your relative might end up like you, can't go far internationally.
But of course, if your relative ever consider to join PMC, better join RCSI or UCD straight away. Although more expensive, it's worth the price if you can afford it.

Oh btw, if PMC degree is registrable in Ireland, how come almost all the fresh grads of PMC join local hospitals for housemanship instead of internship in Ireland?

This post has been edited by hypermax: Aug 8 2008, 07:08 PM

no need........decision is quite easy actually.......the only fail-safe programme locally is the imu-pms pathway......i am skeptical of pmc's 2 entry pathways, one directly to year 1, and if you don't make the cut off (eg ter 85-90), you can do a pre-med year (in ireland or penang)........

monash msia mbbs, while fully recognised, cannot enable one to work in oz, as one has to apply for pr first, since one has not studied onshore there for at least 2 years.........

anyone in the same boat, who needs advise, i can help.......

Yes, agree, IMU's PMS is the safest programme which will get one far internationally. Of course, the fee is but not as expensive as direct entry though.

Btw, pls answer my question, if PMC degree is registrable in Ireland, how come almost all the fresh grads of PMC join local hospitals for housemanship instead of internship in Ireland?

hmm, i think PMC graduates can work in Ireland, but Irish housemanships are rather hard to get, and the Irish people prefer those with clinical experience in Ireland.
Btw, some of the PMC graduates did stay in Ireland.

"the first 14 students returned from Dublin to Penang in March 1999 and graduated in 2001. They now work in hospitals throughout Malaysia as well as Ireland and further afield"

from http://www.imt.ie/news/2008/07/malasian_do...ured_by_rc.html

ireland is not a favourite destination for work and training, there are fewer hospitals and vacancies, compared to uk itself.........and unfortunately, irish degree does not qualify one to automatically qualify to register with gmc.......so most would stay back in msia.....the other factor is, non familiarity with ireland after being back in msia for 3 years......knowing people and having good references is VERY important in getting jobs in that part of the world.........

in any case, the question has been answered...the lesson is do not presume......

it will be interesting to see how the first monash batch turn out in 2010......will they change the immigration rules to allow these new doctors to work in oz?....the 1st batch now in year 4 is certainly hoping for that......

Nope, did not presume, but learned the fact from talking to my friend and a doctor in Melaka GH. I dun think they will lie or be misinformed about their own college right? Or perhaps what they meant was like what wgy589 had said, that ireland prefer people with clinical experience?

This post has been edited by hypermax: Aug 8 2008, 08:27 PM

Non-PRs could get an internship in Australian hospitals if you graduate in australia, but I'm not sure as to whether non-PRs from foreign unis could do so.
If they could, they would then would have had a job and will technically push their points above 120-which qualifies them for PR.
So, the deciding factor is as to whether they can get an internship.

It is unlikely that DIAC will change the PR system as it was just modified last year.

if on shore, the 18mths visa applies, and one should be able to find a housejob.....then will satisfy the points and start the pr process.....

from monash msia, the 18 months visa doesn't apply, so you will be considered the same as other foreigners with a oz recognised degree, needs the points from work experience etc......

it's a grey area at the moment........

hmm...i never seen mbbs(mmmc) or mbbs(kmc)..i've oni seen mbbs(manipal) or MB, BCh, BAO (ireland),mbbs(mysore) as in those in the brackets are the main university not the colleges inside the university because the degree is conferred by the university,not the college..the college has no power to confer any degree...am currently studyin in manipal as in mmmc...im here to clear dat our degree are conferred by manipal uni and therefore named mbbs(manipal)..no mmmc or so in the brackets..and to say dat mmmc is full of lousy student,have u been there?? im a jpa scholar there and quite insulted with ur words....i have frens studying in imu,pmc,ucd(not twinning),um,ukm,uitm,alexendre university in cairo,moscow state university,universitas padjadjaran,univeristas trisakti,universitas gadjah mada..all doin medicine and we always compare and discuss the way or syllabus and our curriculum during our studies.. and i think it is not wrong for me to say dat it is very tough and demanding to study medicine in india...yes,my college does have some lousy rich brat but doesnt mean there are no lousy rich brat studyin in university of liverpool(ranked 1 for medicine in uk)..please,this thread are opened to discuss the matter,not to insult other ppls colleges..about the derecognition,my frens in kmc told me about kmc exceeding the 40% quota for foreigners student and this bring about the derecognition and nothing about the facilities..in fact,the facilities we have there are top notch..kmc even have one of the biggest anatomy museum in the world...and about the degree..the listing on imed have nothing to do with the degree conferred..pmc degree is a nui degree and mmmc degree is manipal degree..the listing is based on where the college is situated and not where the degree is conferred..fyi,there are no pmc in ireland because in ireland the students share the same facilites used by the full time student in ucd or rcsi and in manipal we share the same facilities with student from kmc and kmcic..so that is why in imed it is listed as in malaysia and not in the foreign country..about the imu-pms program,it is not listed in imed because it is a program,not an institution...and to clear things bit about the degree,the formation of twinning program,pmc and mmmc is a way for the government to ensure that sponsored students return to msia to fulfill their 10 years contract with the government,hence come the MoU with india and ireland to allow the students to be conferred their full degree but without the clinical trainings there in order to prevent the students from getting away..that is why jpa allocated a fixed amount of student sponsored by them to enter pmc and mmmc for every intake because they know for sure they WILL come back..there are 60 jpa students for every mmmc intake and 40 for pmc intake..about the guy thinking of entering imu for his cousin..just wanted to share what i've been through..b4 i went to india,i have to do my a lvls and pass the cut off points set by jpa...those who fail to pass the cut off point are sent to imu...anyway,if any1 wanted to reply to my post please dont flame me...what i give here is from what i've been through and what i know to be true...im not here to correct any1 just to state what i know to be facts..

This post has been edited by fazid88: Aug 9 2008, 01:20 AM

U will be my senior soon.
And no 1 for medicine in UK currently is University of Dundee , Scotland

walaueh......

haven't you heard of something call paragraphs?......

Damn, your post is hard to read.
Anyway, welcome junior.
Btw, MMMC's degree is in fact a Malaysian degree. You can ask Prof Razak regarding this matter. Also, MMMC is not set up with JPA sponsored students in mind. It was set up to earn money, and why the clinical years in Msia? Well, so that the grads will get used to Msian system, not indian's.
Btw, i dun really understand the statement in bold. Care to explain more? FYI, PMC is listed under Ireland where as MMMC is listed under Malaysia in IMED.

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This post has been edited by hypermax: Aug 9 2008, 01:57 AM

that explains it.......no wonder the fail rate at sem2 amongst jpa scholars are so high......20+% failure rate, and mostly jpa's....

Huh?? i thought IMU is the best private med school in msia? how come suddenly its requirement is lower than Manipal?

Eh hyper, what's the actuall degree title for MMMC, anyway. I mean the title that's printed on the official cert. I think it shud be MBBS (MMMC) rite? If it's KMC, it'd be MBBS (KMC)

I have yet to see a real cert. Will only see it in a few months time (hopefully )

Btw, just to let you know, the system is getting harder for each batch. So by the time is your turn for the final exam, it will be hell. Just beware.

hmm..maybe im wrong then..who is prof razak? my dean explained to us during orientation that our degree will be conferred as mbbs(manipal)....our dean ir prof john arokiasamy in msia and prof ram in manipal....btw,about the pmc,my fren told me the degree conferred is the same with the one conferred to those studyin for 5 yrs...i think imu is overrated....

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Added on August 9, 2008, 2:13 amso u r my senior den?? haha..den u shud know how hard it is eh studyin there...i heard melaka is even tougher..

This post has been edited by fazid88: Aug 9 2008, 02:13 AM

Prof Razak is the deputy dean of Melaka campus.

Yeah, it's tough here, and it will be tougher for you. But good for you, as you will be a more capable doctor under strict scrutiny.

Btw, you guys only need to stay in India for 2 years only right?

his the vice dean and also the prof. of community medicine. If that's the case, haha hyper, you'll hafta make MBBS (manipal) as your chop once u be a HO

2 and half years for pre clinical....no big exams for pre clinical but have to pass 3 out of 6 postings or else we cannot go home...

Nah, i am putting MMMC. HOs in Melaka GH and Muar hospital are putting MMMC.

Perhaps i can also put (MU). MU=Manipal University or Manchester University.

This post has been edited by hypermax: Aug 9 2008, 02:23 AM

why? pride for college eh? haha

Dunoe. MMMC sounds cooler to me.
Yeah, i am proud of my college indeed, as the college equips me well. Sometimes during ward rounds, we can answer questions posted by the consultants which the HOs or even the MOs cannot answer.
But of course, there's still much to be learned, especially clinical procedures.

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Added on August 9, 2008, 2:29 amBtw, postings in Manipal are much easier compared to Melaka. And dun take the Indian Protocol too seriously, as Malaysian Protocol is totally different.

This post has been edited by hypermax: Aug 9 2008, 02:29 AM

o0o...i heard our grads are doin well after graduating..is it?

oh dear.........shouldn't you pass EVERY posting??? that is worrying, that someone failing 3 postings can still proceed.........

and no exams??.......

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Added on August 9, 2008, 8:52 amunfortunately, all med schools in msia, ipta and ipts are overrated......

non has achieved any international status....

same goes for the unis in general.......

This post has been edited by limeuu: Aug 9 2008, 09:22 AM

Offtopic: Since when IMU is the best? The facilities are one of the worst (try going to the medical museum) and the entry requirement are the lowest. It is the best way to get to overseas university for rich brats.

limeuu...obviously u've never been into a med school...in reality in med school,only a few like 5-10 ppl who never achieve failure during their time doing the mbbs....and those ppl are the ones living in the library...failure is a norm in medic school but the school limits the failure to 50% rate..dats why above 50% marks in university exams,u pass...same goes to posting..u pass 3 out of 6,u r clear to go...but it is not easy just to pass...i dunno about other school but we in manipal,its very hard just to pass...no need to speak of the 5-10 distinction students or our batch topper...ask hyper..he should know more....or maybe he is one of the topper..ahaha...

maybe the next time those of you with good grades..but not with the $$$..can go after limeuuu for sponsorship to study medic since he is so againts indian.russia.indon unis!!

I think that only applies to JPA scholars.

wrong............that is why there is a difference between 3rd world and developed world med schools....it's all to do with maintainance of standards.....

justify how you want, fail is fail......no education system keeps standards so 'high' a fail is acceptable......it just doesn't make any sense.......

and all good med schools have a significant fail rate.....because no matter how careful they select their students, there will always be about 10-20% that is not suited for the course......

fact: imu failed 21% of sem 2 students in their 1st major exam (most of them jpa 'scholars').......

fact: ucl (university college london school of medicine) failed 20% of their 1st year, in spite of ALL the students having AAA in A-levels.......

these students needs to refer the exam, or sometimes repeat a semester.......

when any med school says there is LOW fail rate, it just proves what we all know.......there is a problem with standards in 3rd world med schools......

The Russians fail their own students alot. If you go around asking, there are many who're still stuck in the first two years.

However they are very lenient towards Malaysian students. You can actually postpone your final papers till the following year.

msians do not stay back to work and treat russian patients, so not their problem......in any case, a pass is just us$50-150, so i am told........

No no, limeuu, you got the wrong idea. There is a big exam each year for the first 2 years, which the students have to pass all. If not, it's another 6 months for the students who have failed.

The postings during the 5th sem which fazid88 spoke about are for internal assessment. The next big exam will be in 8th sem, in which students are to take a comprehensive exam (all subjects combined). It is a very tough exam.

Then the final exam will be at 10th sem, which is toughest of all.

limeuu, so what best things u can say about UM during ur medical training?
Is it the teaching hospital of UM or something else?

I think UM's medical faculty is attached to UMMC since decades ago. But being called as University Hospital previously. Just recently the name has been changed to University Malaya Medical Centre.

I'm not sure but i've heard from doctors in UM saying that tho UM's ranking has dropped alot, the medical faculty's standard is still very good. As in it is still a top medical school in the country. The prob is that most of the students entered with matrikulasi aren't as competent compared with those entered with STPM qualification. Is it true? My mom works in UM and often she was telling me that consultants they themselves have the thoughts that matrikulasi student aren't that competent? Don't how true it is tho. O.o

This post has been edited by csrulez: Aug 9 2008, 04:35 PM

Yes,the agents selling 'zachuts' or 'a pass' are usually Sri Lankans. They are Malaysian agents as well. They all work hand in hand with the dekanat, ie the dean's office.

Everybody wins. Patient loses.

How about Ukraine? Is that the reason why Ukraine got de-recognized?

nope..does not apply to oni jpa scholar...in fact,my batch topper is a jpa scholar and most jpa scholar pass their exams in manipal...and limeuu,i hope u understand what i meant...its not failing the big exam..its failing the internal assessment...failing big big exam in manipal means a repeat...fail more than twice,u'll be going home to malaysia....correct me if im wrong,if im not mistaken,india is th oni few country which would not allow the student to proceed to another year without passing the big exam...

you are very mistaken.....

den correct me... btw,why i sense some hatred towars jpa scholar here...i know some of us are wasting the money,but dont label us as one...

no reputable uni will allow anyone who fails to proceed to the next level...ever.......the very fact that this is an issue at all shows how low we expect our standards........but you are right, there are msian ipta/ipts where people are forced to be 'passed' by addition of marks across the board.......facts.....

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Added on August 9, 2008, 9:51 pmnot hatred, just distaste about the whole charade, and often, waste.......

jpa scholars are NOT the cream of the country, because not the BEST are chosen, but nep complaint criteria used.......there are so many better students who did not get scholarships.......

and they have a reputation of failing exams......a rather unusual propensity for 'scholars'.....

so just like 3rd world students in general, you are suspect, till you prove yourself.......

the fact that 'some of us are wasting the money' is proof that the whole process sucks....NO scholar if selected carefully on best practice criteria will 'waste money'..........

This post has been edited by limeuu: Aug 9 2008, 09:51 PM

hmm..reputation of failing exams? i think its right during my a levels time but doesnt apply during my time doing medicine in manipal...from what i experience,those who fail are majority private students in manipal...

I'm also not surprised that the top is a JPA scholar. As far as I know, due to the quota system, some 'minorities' who are smart get chucked to places like India, Russia, Indonesia...etc, whereas those "majorities" who are not necessarily smart, but smarter than the average 'majority' get places such as UK, Australia..etc.

Out of curiosity, what were your results during A levels? And were you given medicine at India originally after your SPM?

yep...we were given places right after we r offered the scholar....hmm..my result,pass the jpa requirement and pass the college requirement..if u stil want to know i'll pm u... erm...about the minorities get chucked into places like india,indon,russia.....toppers of my batch came from both the majorities and minorities...

I'll have to agree with u on this matter =) I've heard a lot of cases.

anyway, so in msia there aren't any good medical unis(private or local)? =/ this is the impression i get from reading the posts.

a-levels is nowadays such an easy exam (up to 25% of candidates gets an A in most subjects), nobody with less that 3A's should be selected into med schools........

i agree...it is made easier by the abundance of past year paper which causes a bad impact on some of the student...some of us got AAAA(we took 4 subj during a lvls) but failed during the block exam during medicine...

Seriously JPA scholars do have a reputation for failing exams, more than half of the JPA scholars failed in IMU and worse these future doctors are smoking like no tomorrow.

they smoke coz they are asking for no tomorrow

not all are mighty JPA scholars.

This post has been edited by blackrobin: Aug 10 2008, 01:56 AM

Killing one's self, while saving another life. Isn't that noble? =p

I was sitting at home reading all your threads and replies and i'm pretty amused.
Are all of you'll practising doctors in Malaysia yet??

Well i'll start off by saying that I graduated from Manipal-Melaka. I was in the 2nd batch. I got offered into IMC at that time 1997 and PMC. It however was too expensive for me as at that time as our country had a bad ecomonic recession. Well I went to India, studied hard, partied hard too and eventually came back to Melaka to complete the degree. I graduated in 2003 and started my housemanship then. I've been a surgical M.O for 4 years now in HKL, gone thru General Surgery, Plastics and Neurosurgery.

I've had the opportunity to work with a alot of doctors, whom graduated from all over the world, and i also had the opportunity to teach and guide housemen's who also graduated from all over the world.

I would like to say that it doesnt matter where you graduate from. Ive had really good housemen's who graduated from some god forsaken colleges in indonesia, but they prooved to be really good - knowledge wise, hard working and very interested in their jobs. I've had housemen's from my college who i thought we're to be idiots, but most of them we're good, and i've had housemens from ireland, uk, who at times proved themselves to be idiots too.

As long as you you know your a doctor and your there to do one thing, work hard and treat your patients, i personally feel it doesn't matter where u got your MD, MBBS from.

To proove a point to myself, i took the PLAB when i was a houseman and i passed it in one go. I then completed my MRCS this year and took the NZREX (which is the new zealand board exam) and passed it too. I've been offered a job in aukland and i'm leaving in november. So really... i dont know why is everyone bickering about where you'll graduated from or who is better. If the 1st world countries like aussie, NZ... can look beyond my degree and see that i'm competent enough, then why don't all of you start also having a first world mentality and see a doctor as a doctor and not judge him from what bracket he has at the back of his MBBS.

The Manipal problem on the other hand will be resolved. Dont worry about it guys.. its all hype and i've seen this crap happen before when i was graduating. The MMC didnt want to reconise our degree when i first came out and wanted us to sit for some other exam. Manipal also is a multi million business of the PAI's, so thrust me... it will be resolved in an instant.

Oh by the way.. i use MBBS(MMMC).

at last someone with great insights thanks for ur advice, something we need in our med training years coz i believe everyone here is passionate about being a doctor..
so, ur official mbbs cert was printed on it as MBBS (MMMC)?

kudos.....

however, exceptions cannot be extrapolated to the general.....that is why anecdotal evidence is category 4......

if only all students and doctors were like that......

the same goes for ur first world med student..

you all obviously have not been understanding what i am saying......

hey black robin... in all medical degrees they do not tell us what to print on out chops or cards. My degree says... MAHE followed by college of manipal-melaka. I think the KMC guys have it as MAHE followed by college of kasturba medical... or somethin like that la.

I've seen people rint MBBS (MAHE) or sometimes MBBS(MMMC) or even if u want to generalize u can put MBBS (india) the open bracket thing is just somethin people in Malaysia do. Havent seen it abroad. In the Us they just write their names and put MD at the back. Australia and NZ also te same, MBBS then FRACS or somethin like that. They dont put MBBS (monash). Its just a malaysian thing i feel.

Actually thinkin about it... it should just be your name.. Dr.xxxx and MBBS, MRCS... or what ever degree u have. So what year are u in now anyway. Hows the Melaka campus. Bloody hell i heard u guys have like a freakin nice gym and pool and all now.