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 Medical degrees from Manipal Uni not recognised, Quoted from The Star Malaysia

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limeuu
post Aug 7 2008, 05:28 PM

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de-recognition by the imc means graduates cannot register with imc to practice medicine.......and this will apply to the branch at malaka as well, as the awarding body for mmmc is the parent manipal in india......

this just means graduates cannot register and practice in india.......but the malaysian medical council still at this point still recognise the degree, and graduates still can register and practice in msia......but this sets an unusual precedent, where the parent country does not recognise, whereas a foreign country recognises the qualification.....and begs the question, is the uni serving their own country, or a foreign country.....

this scenerio will NEVER happen in the developed world......

be that as it may, the fact that a statutory body like the imc should express enough doubts about the med school to delist it, suggest all is not right......there is obviously a problem.....
limeuu
post Aug 7 2008, 07:56 PM

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QUOTE(edge85 @ Aug 7 2008, 07:49 PM)
Haha, forever bashing 3rd world countries' medical schools and how superior is his first world med degree.
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in what way was what i said bashing 3rd world countries and med school?.......what did i say that wasn't factual......? do you even know where i graduated from??

This post has been edited by limeuu: Aug 7 2008, 07:58 PM
limeuu
post Aug 7 2008, 10:36 PM

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QUOTE(hypermax @ Aug 7 2008, 08:08 PM)

Also, KMC is still listed in IMED. So it has yet to be officially de-recognized by the Indian Government. Link

Oh, btw, MMMC's degree is never recognized in India, as there is no Indian national studying in MMMC. It is in fact a malaysian degree.

imed listing means nothing, as far as sovereign rights of individual countries to recognise degrees for registration is concerned.......they are completely different things....

mmmc is awarded by the university of manipal, which is an indian university, therefore it's degree is an indian degree.......if what you say is true, that it's msian version of their degree is NOT recognised in india, that is worrying.......

other foreign universities with branch campuses in msia all award degrees fully recognised in their parent country.........ie monash, pmc/irish med schools, including other professional degrees like pharmacy etc.....

i don't know why people are so defensive about this matter..........it obvious strike a sore point.....perhaps the intrinsic realisation that there is indeed a problem with certain medical schools......i didn't invent there issues........

limeuu
post Aug 8 2008, 08:49 AM

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QUOTE(hypermax @ Aug 8 2008, 12:27 AM)
For an institution to be listed as "recognized" in IMED, it must first be recognized by the country where it is situated. There's no such thing as a school being listed in IMED as "recognized" while it is not recognized by the country of origin. The last time when KMC was de-recognized, its status in the IMED was written as "de-recognized".

Link 1 Link 2
As listed in IMED, both schools' graduation years are "current", which means they are recognized by the country of origin. As i have stated before, the final verdict lies in the Indian Ministry of Health (damn, i am beginning to sound like a broken radio).

As funny as it sounds, but India only recognizes medical institutions which have a sizable amount of Indian nationals. I am not sure how the recognition in India works but i am pretty sure that MMMC is not recognized by India. Also, many western institutions are not recognized by India.

Degree from PMC is not recognized by Ireland. Under IMED, PMC is listed as a distinct institution, which means that PMC's degree is actually a degree of its own. That's also the reason why PMC is not recognized by Singapore Medical Council, while the partner schools are recognized. In addition, Irish medical council only recognizes 5 Irish institutions, of which PMC is not included. The 5 schools are:

University of Dublin
Royal College of Surgeons in Ireland
University College Cork
University College Dublin
National University of Ireland, Galway

Also, you are wrong about MMMC's degree. It is a Malaysian degree, i can assure you, and MMMC is listed under Malaysia in IMED. Link Therefore, even though KMC is de-recognized, MMMC will still be recognized by Malaysia. You can call/email MMMC or Malaysia Medical Council regarding this matter.

I am not defensive about this matter, it's just that you have the wrong concept of the whole thing. I am here to correct you.

Btw, are you going to reveal where you graduated from? I wonder why are you so secretive about it? rolleyes.gif
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i dunno why i bother............maybe i should just let you all wallow in your own misconceptions and misinformation.........

i wish you should leave that crutch called the imed, and stop thinking that being listed there is all important.......

as far as manipal is concerned, this thing just happened days ago.........you expect imed to delist it immediately? you obviously don't know how this thing works.......

pmc does NOT award any degree.....graduates gets the MB BCh BAO degrees of the National University of Ireland (NUI) as well as with the Licentiates of the Royal College of Surgeons in Ireland and the Royal College of Physicians of Ireland. They are registerable of course in Ireland.......pmc homesite is down so alternatively, nah: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penang_Medical_College

and you are 'correcting' me??!


Added on August 8, 2008, 8:55 am
QUOTE(edge85 @ Aug 8 2008, 02:06 AM)
Even if it's recognised by the JPA or MMC, you cannot run away from the fact that you graduated from a lousy school. Yes, you may find a job locally. But you may not be as competent as your peers.
What you say are usually "obvious truths". So you don't really have to rephrase it in a way that could send those people you insulted banging balls.

Usually you sound like a kangaroo. But from this sentence, you may have graduated from a third world country lol.
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in one swift blow, you insulted me, contradicted yourself, insulted people in 'lousy school' after criticizing me of bashing 3rd world schools...........

and what's this obsession about where i come from anyway?.....i thought it is not important, and it is how the individual proves himself that is important??? so now where one graduates from becomes important again?.........

This post has been edited by limeuu: Aug 8 2008, 08:55 AM
limeuu
post Aug 8 2008, 03:04 PM

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eh.........you are saying the pmc website is lying through it's teeth.......?
limeuu
post Aug 8 2008, 05:35 PM

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QUOTE(hypermax @ Aug 8 2008, 03:37 PM)
Is it stated anywhere on the web site that its degree is registrable in Ireland?
Also, if Moscow state medical can lie about their school being ranked no. 2 worldwide, why not PMC?
Oh, btw, the article on Wiki is not reliable, as the article does not cite any references or sources.
Btw, where did you graduate from?
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now you are accusing pmc of deliberately lying......wow........talk about badmouthing rivals......

the pmc site is down, so this will have to do, if you don't trust wiki.....http://www.rcsi.ie/index.jsp?1nID=93&pID=97&nID=1118

the degree is irish......so you will have to show us where is it ever stated the pmc pathway one is NOT recognised in ireland......

I can however show you that the pmc pathway is NOT recognised by smc........just go to the smc website.......
limeuu
post Aug 8 2008, 06:11 PM

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imc site says NOTHING about not recognising the irish degree from the pmc pathway.....in fact there is NO SUCH THING AS A PMC DEGREE.....

you did not say anything about smc not recognising, wgy589 said it just a few posts above...
limeuu
post Aug 8 2008, 06:26 PM

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i stand corrected......

but the fact remains, there is NO pmc degree......its the Mb BCh BAO from NUI.........
limeuu
post Aug 8 2008, 06:39 PM

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QUOTE(hypermax @ Aug 8 2008, 06:27 PM)
If there's no degree from PMC, why it is listed as a distinct entity in IMED? How come IMU's PMS program is not listed in IMED as a distinct entity?
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there is NO degree from pmc......



School Name
PENANG MEDICAL COLLEGE
University Name
National University of Ireland
School Address
PLEASE REFER TO CONTACT INFORMATION
IRELAND
Phone
Data not currently available.
Fax
Data not currently available.
Email
Data not currently available.
Contacts
DEAN
4, JALAN SEPOY LINES
10450 PULAU PINANG
MALAYSIA
+60-4-226-3459 (phone)
+60-4-227-6529 (fax)
medfaculty@pmc.edu.my

DEAN
C/O UNIVERSITY COLLEGE DUBLIN
EARLSFORT TERRACE
DUBLIN 2
IRELAND

Website
http://www.pmc.edu.my
Former Official Names of Medical School/University
Not Applicable

Degree Title
MB, BCh, BAO
Graduation Years
1996 - Current
Year Instruction Began
1996
Language of Instruction
English
Duration of the Curriculum
5-6 years
Entrance Examination Requirement
No
Foreign (Non-National) Students Eligible
Yes
Total Enrollment
Data not currently available.
Notes
Penang Medical College, Royal College of Surgeons in Ireland (RCSI) and University College Dublin (UCD) offer the Irish Medical Program of Penang Medical College. The program combines pre-clinical training in Ireland at either RCSI or UCD with clinical training at Penang Hospital, Malaysia. The medical degree is awarded by the National University of Ireland.





limeuu
post Aug 8 2008, 06:57 PM

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one of the issues for parents of potential students at pmc is whether the pmc pathway awards in any way, a different category of degree from the home uni........and it is clearly stated in the prospectus that the degree is the same, and there is nothing on the paper itself indicating which pathway the graduate comes through......and it is registrable with the mci......

it is the same for the monash malaysia mbbs, it will be silent as to the campus (they have 3 for medicine), and is fully recognised by the amc.........

i know all this because i have examined all these options very carefully for a relative who is considering the options......

there is no need to argue.....

i don't know about mbbs(manipal), as it was not on our short list, it would however make little difference, since both pathways don't get you very far anyway internationally......
limeuu
post Aug 8 2008, 07:09 PM

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QUOTE(hypermax @ Aug 8 2008, 07:00 PM)
Then perhaps you should give a call/email to PMC and ask properly. If not, your relative might end up like you, can't go far internationally.
But of course, if your relative ever consider to join PMC, better join RCSI or UCD straight away. Although more expensive, it's worth the price if you can afford it.  wink.gif
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no need........decision is quite easy actually.......the only fail-safe programme locally is the imu-pms pathway......i am skeptical of pmc's 2 entry pathways, one directly to year 1, and if you don't make the cut off (eg ter 85-90), you can do a pre-med year (in ireland or penang)........

monash msia mbbs, while fully recognised, cannot enable one to work in oz, as one has to apply for pr first, since one has not studied onshore there for at least 2 years.........

anyone in the same boat, who needs advise, i can help....... smile.gif
limeuu
post Aug 8 2008, 07:46 PM

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ireland is not a favourite destination for work and training, there are fewer hospitals and vacancies, compared to uk itself.........and unfortunately, irish degree does not qualify one to automatically qualify to register with gmc.......so most would stay back in msia.....the other factor is, non familiarity with ireland after being back in msia for 3 years......knowing people and having good references is VERY important in getting jobs in that part of the world.........

in any case, the question has been answered...the lesson is do not presume......

it will be interesting to see how the first monash batch turn out in 2010......will they change the immigration rules to allow these new doctors to work in oz?....the 1st batch now in year 4 is certainly hoping for that......
limeuu
post Aug 8 2008, 09:22 PM

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if on shore, the 18mths visa applies, and one should be able to find a housejob.....then will satisfy the points and start the pr process.....

from monash msia, the 18 months visa doesn't apply, so you will be considered the same as other foreigners with a oz recognised degree, needs the points from work experience etc......

it's a grey area at the moment........
limeuu
post Aug 9 2008, 01:37 AM

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walaueh...... rclxub.gif

haven't you heard of something call paragraphs?......
limeuu
post Aug 9 2008, 01:45 AM

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QUOTE(fazid88 @ Aug 9 2008, 01:14 AM)
.just wanted to share what i've been through..b4 i went to india,i have to do my a lvls and pass the cut off points set by jpa...those who fail to pass the cut off point are sent to imu...
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that explains it.......no wonder the fail rate at sem2 amongst jpa scholars are so high......20+% failure rate, and mostly jpa's.... blink.gif
limeuu
post Aug 9 2008, 08:46 AM

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QUOTE(fazid88 @ Aug 9 2008, 02:21 AM)
2 and half years for pre clinical....no big exams for pre clinical but have to pass 3 out of 6 postings or else we cannot go home... sad.gif
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oh dear.........shouldn't you pass EVERY posting??? that is worrying, that someone failing 3 postings can still proceed.........

and no exams??.......


Added on August 9, 2008, 8:52 am
QUOTE(fazid88 @ Aug 9 2008, 02:12 AM)
hmm..maybe im wrong then..who is prof razak? my dean explained to us during orientation that our degree will be conferred as mbbs(manipal)....our dean ir prof john arokiasamy in msia and prof ram in manipal....btw,about the pmc,my fren told me the degree conferred is the same with the one conferred to those studyin for 5 yrs...i think imu is overrated....

unfortunately, all med schools in msia, ipta and ipts are overrated......

non has achieved any international status....

same goes for the unis in general.......

This post has been edited by limeuu: Aug 9 2008, 09:22 AM
limeuu
post Aug 9 2008, 02:48 PM

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QUOTE(fazid88 @ Aug 9 2008, 12:39 PM)
limeuu...obviously u've never been into a med school...in reality in med school,only a few like 5-10 ppl who never achieve failure during their time doing the mbbs....and those ppl are the ones living in the library...failure is a norm in medic school but the school limits the failure to 50% rate..dats why above 50% marks in university exams,u pass...same goes to posting..u pass 3 out of 6,u r clear to go...but it is not easy just to pass...i dunno about other school but we in manipal,its very hard just to pass...no need to speak of the 5-10 distinction students or our batch topper...ask hyper..he should know more....or maybe he is one of the topper..ahaha...
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wrong............that is why there is a difference between 3rd world and developed world med schools....it's all to do with maintainance of standards.....

justify how you want, fail is fail......no education system keeps standards so 'high' a fail is acceptable......it just doesn't make any sense.......

and all good med schools have a significant fail rate.....because no matter how careful they select their students, there will always be about 10-20% that is not suited for the course......

fact: imu failed 21% of sem 2 students in their 1st major exam (most of them jpa 'scholars').......

fact: ucl (university college london school of medicine) failed 20% of their 1st year, in spite of ALL the students having AAA in A-levels.......

these students needs to refer the exam, or sometimes repeat a semester.......

when any med school says there is LOW fail rate, it just proves what we all know.......there is a problem with standards in 3rd world med schools......
limeuu
post Aug 9 2008, 03:04 PM

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QUOTE(edge85 @ Aug 9 2008, 02:54 PM)
The Russians fail their own students alot. If you go around asking, there are many who're still stuck in the first two years.

However they are very lenient towards Malaysian students. You can actually postpone your final papers till the following year.
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msians do not stay back to work and treat russian patients, so not their problem......in any case, a pass is just us$50-150, so i am told........
limeuu
post Aug 9 2008, 09:21 PM

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QUOTE(fazid88 @ Aug 9 2008, 08:53 PM)
nope..does not apply to oni jpa scholar...in fact,my batch topper is a jpa scholar and most jpa scholar pass their exams in manipal...and limeuu,i hope u understand what i meant...its not failing the big exam..its failing the internal assessment...failing big big exam in manipal means a repeat...fail more than twice,u'll be going home to malaysia....correct me if im wrong,if im not mistaken,india is th oni few country which would not allow the student to proceed to another year without passing the big exam...
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you are very mistaken.....
limeuu
post Aug 9 2008, 09:44 PM

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QUOTE(fazid88 @ Aug 9 2008, 08:53 PM)
nope..does not apply to oni jpa scholar...in fact,my batch topper is a jpa scholar and most jpa scholar pass their exams in manipal...and limeuu,i hope u understand what i meant...its not failing the big exam..its failing the internal assessment...failing big big exam in manipal means a repeat...fail more than twice,u'll be going home to malaysia....correct me if im wrong,if im not mistaken,india is th oni few country which would not allow the student to proceed to another year without passing the big exam...
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no reputable uni will allow anyone who fails to proceed to the next level...ever.......the very fact that this is an issue at all shows how low we expect our standards........but you are right, there are msian ipta/ipts where people are forced to be 'passed' by addition of marks across the board.......facts.....


Added on August 9, 2008, 9:51 pm
QUOTE(fazid88 @ Aug 9 2008, 09:30 PM)
den correct me...  nod.gif  btw,why i sense some hatred towars jpa scholar here...i know some of us are wasting the money,but dont label us as one...
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not hatred, just distaste about the whole charade, and often, waste.......

jpa scholars are NOT the cream of the country, because not the BEST are chosen, but nep complaint criteria used.......there are so many better students who did not get scholarships.......

and they have a reputation of failing exams......a rather unusual propensity for 'scholars'.....

so just like 3rd world students in general, you are suspect, till you prove yourself.......

the fact that 'some of us are wasting the money' is proof that the whole process sucks....NO scholar if selected carefully on best practice criteria will 'waste money'..........

This post has been edited by limeuu: Aug 9 2008, 09:51 PM

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