Any comments/feedbacks from the Malaysian students studying there?

Thursday August 7, 2008 MYT 4:18:55 PM

By P. VIJIAN
NEW DELHI: In an abrupt move, the Medical Council of India (MCI) has said that it will not recognise medical degrees offered by India's leading Manipal University, citing lack of clinical facilities and flouting of regulations.

Last week the MCI, a regulatory body of medical institutions, announced its decision not to recognise the Bachelor of Medicine and Bachelor of Surgery (MBBs) courses offered in the university's Kasturba Medical Colleges in Manipal and Mangalore.

"There were several inadequacies in the college which would not allow students to benefit completely from the course," a senior MCI official was quoted as saying.

But responding to MCI's action, Manipal University's ProChancellor Dr H.S Ballal said that although the MCI had derecognised the institution, the ultimate decision would depend on the Health Ministry.

"We have written to the Health Ministry and they have sent a team to observe the university. They wanted a compliance report from us.

"We have submitted the report and the matter is still pending. We hope to get a reply within two to three weeks. We hope the matter will be resolved in favour of us," Dr Ballal told Bernama.

Manipal is popular among Malaysian students and this year 54 students have enrolled for the MBBS and dentistry courses.

Established in 1953, Kasturba, the first private medical college in India, is among the top 10 medical colleges in the country and has the largest concentration of foreign students, from over 50 countries.

Five government medical colleges in Madhya Pradesh are also on the MCI's black list. - Bernama

de-recognition by the imc means graduates cannot register with imc to practice medicine.......and this will apply to the branch at malaka as well, as the awarding body for mmmc is the parent manipal in india......

this just means graduates cannot register and practice in india.......but the malaysian medical council still at this point still recognise the degree, and graduates still can register and practice in msia......but this sets an unusual precedent, where the parent country does not recognise, whereas a foreign country recognises the qualification.....and begs the question, is the uni serving their own country, or a foreign country.....

this scenerio will NEVER happen in the developed world......

be that as it may, the fact that a statutory body like the imc should express enough doubts about the med school to delist it, suggest all is not right......there is obviously a problem.....

in what way was what i said bashing 3rd world countries and med school?.......what did i say that wasn't factual......? do you even know where i graduated from??

imed listing means nothing, as far as sovereign rights of individual countries to recognise degrees for registration is concerned.......they are completely different things....

mmmc is awarded by the university of manipal, which is an indian university, therefore it's degree is an indian degree.......if what you say is true, that it's msian version of their degree is NOT recognised in india, that is worrying.......

other foreign universities with branch campuses in msia all award degrees fully recognised in their parent country.........ie monash, pmc/irish med schools, including other professional degrees like pharmacy etc.....

i don't know why people are so defensive about this matter..........it obvious strike a sore point.....perhaps the intrinsic realisation that there is indeed a problem with certain medical schools......i didn't invent there issues........

i dunno why i bother............maybe i should just let you all wallow in your own misconceptions and misinformation.........

i wish you should leave that crutch called the imed, and stop thinking that being listed there is all important.......

as far as manipal is concerned, this thing just happened days ago.........you expect imed to delist it immediately? you obviously don't know how this thing works.......

pmc does NOT award any degree.....graduates gets the MB BCh BAO degrees of the National University of Ireland (NUI) as well as with the Licentiates of the Royal College of Surgeons in Ireland and the Royal College of Physicians of Ireland. They are registerable of course in Ireland.......pmc homesite is down so alternatively, nah: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penang_Medical_College

and you are 'correcting' me??!

eh.........you are saying the pmc website is lying through it's teeth.......?

now you are accusing pmc of deliberately lying......wow........talk about badmouthing rivals......

the pmc site is down, so this will have to do, if you don't trust wiki.....http://www.rcsi.ie/index.jsp?1nID=93&pID=97&nID=1118

the degree is irish......so you will have to show us where is it ever stated the pmc pathway one is NOT recognised in ireland......

I can however show you that the pmc pathway is NOT recognised by smc........just go to the smc website.......

For an institution to be listed as "recognized" in IMED, it must first be recognized by the country where it is situated. There's no such thing as a school being listed in IMED as "recognized" while it is not recognized by the country of origin. The last time when KMC was de-recognized, its status in the IMED was written as "de-recognized".

Link 1 Link 2
As listed in IMED, both schools' graduation years are "current", which means they are recognized by the country of origin. As i have stated before, the final verdict lies in the Indian Ministry of Health (damn, i am beginning to sound like a broken radio).

As funny as it sounds, but India only recognizes medical institutions which have a sizable amount of Indian nationals. I am not sure how the recognition in India works but i am pretty sure that MMMC is not recognized by India. Also, many western institutions are not recognized by India.

Degree from PMC is not recognized by Ireland. Under IMED, PMC is listed as a distinct institution, which means that PMC's degree is actually a degree of its own. That's also the reason why PMC is not recognized by Singapore Medical Council, while the partner schools are recognized. In addition, Irish medical council only recognizes 5 Irish institutions, of which PMC is not included. The 5 schools are:

University of Dublin
Royal College of Surgeons in Ireland
University College Cork
University College Dublin
National University of Ireland, Galway

Also, you are wrong about MMMC's degree. It is a Malaysian degree, i can assure you, and MMMC is listed under Malaysia in IMED. Link Therefore, even though KMC is de-recognized, MMMC will still be recognized by Malaysia. You can call/email MMMC or Malaysia Medical Council regarding this matter.

I am not defensive about this matter, it's just that you have the wrong concept of the whole thing. I am here to correct you.

Btw, are you going to reveal where you graduated from? I wonder why are you so secretive about it?

i stand corrected......

but the fact remains, there is NO pmc degree......its the Mb BCh BAO from NUI.........

there is NO degree from pmc......

 
 
School Name
PENANG MEDICAL COLLEGE
University Name
National University of Ireland
School Address
PLEASE REFER TO CONTACT INFORMATION
IRELAND
Phone
Data not currently available.
Fax
Data not currently available.
Email
Data not currently available.
Contacts
DEAN
4, JALAN SEPOY LINES
10450 PULAU PINANG
MALAYSIA
+60-4-226-3459 (phone)
+60-4-227-6529 (fax)
medfaculty@pmc.edu.my

DEAN
C/O UNIVERSITY COLLEGE DUBLIN
EARLSFORT TERRACE
DUBLIN 2
IRELAND

Website
http://www.pmc.edu.my
Former Official Names of Medical School/University
Not Applicable

Degree Title
MB, BCh, BAO
Graduation Years
1996 - Current
Year Instruction Began
1996
Language of Instruction
English
Duration of the Curriculum
5-6 years
Entrance Examination Requirement
No
Foreign (Non-National) Students Eligible
Yes
Total Enrollment
Data not currently available.
Notes
Penang Medical College, Royal College of Surgeons in Ireland (RCSI) and University College Dublin (UCD) offer the Irish Medical Program of Penang Medical College. The program combines pre-clinical training in Ireland at either RCSI or UCD with clinical training at Penang Hospital, Malaysia. The medical degree is awarded by the National University of Ireland.

one of the issues for parents of potential students at pmc is whether the pmc pathway awards in any way, a different category of degree from the home uni........and it is clearly stated in the prospectus that the degree is the same, and there is nothing on the paper itself indicating which pathway the graduate comes through......and it is registrable with the mci......

it is the same for the monash malaysia mbbs, it will be silent as to the campus (they have 3 for medicine), and is fully recognised by the amc.........

i know all this because i have examined all these options very carefully for a relative who is considering the options......

there is no need to argue.....

i don't know about mbbs(manipal), as it was not on our short list, it would however make little difference, since both pathways don't get you very far anyway internationally......

no need........decision is quite easy actually.......the only fail-safe programme locally is the imu-pms pathway......i am skeptical of pmc's 2 entry pathways, one directly to year 1, and if you don't make the cut off (eg ter 85-90), you can do a pre-med year (in ireland or penang)........

monash msia mbbs, while fully recognised, cannot enable one to work in oz, as one has to apply for pr first, since one has not studied onshore there for at least 2 years.........

anyone in the same boat, who needs advise, i can help.......

ireland is not a favourite destination for work and training, there are fewer hospitals and vacancies, compared to uk itself.........and unfortunately, irish degree does not qualify one to automatically qualify to register with gmc.......so most would stay back in msia.....the other factor is, non familiarity with ireland after being back in msia for 3 years......knowing people and having good references is VERY important in getting jobs in that part of the world.........

in any case, the question has been answered...the lesson is do not presume......

it will be interesting to see how the first monash batch turn out in 2010......will they change the immigration rules to allow these new doctors to work in oz?....the 1st batch now in year 4 is certainly hoping for that......

hmm...i never seen mbbs(mmmc) or mbbs(kmc)..i've oni seen mbbs(manipal) or MB, BCh, BAO (ireland),mbbs(mysore) as in those in the brackets are the main university not the colleges inside the university because the degree is conferred by the university,not the college..the college has no power to confer any degree...am currently studyin in manipal as in mmmc...im here to clear dat our degree are conferred by manipal uni and therefore named mbbs(manipal)..no mmmc or so in the brackets..and to say dat mmmc is full of lousy student,have u been there?? im a jpa scholar there and quite insulted with ur words....i have frens studying in imu,pmc,ucd(not twinning),um,ukm,uitm,alexendre university in cairo,moscow state university,universitas padjadjaran,univeristas trisakti,universitas gadjah mada..all doin medicine and we always compare and discuss the way or syllabus and our curriculum during our studies.. and i think it is not wrong for me to say dat it is very tough and demanding to study medicine in india...yes,my college does have some lousy rich brat but doesnt mean there are no lousy rich brat studyin in university of liverpool(ranked 1 for medicine in uk)..please,this thread are opened to discuss the matter,not to insult other ppls colleges..about the derecognition,my frens in kmc told me about kmc exceeding the 40% quota for foreigners student and this bring about the derecognition and nothing about the facilities..in fact,the facilities we have there are top notch..kmc even have one of the biggest anatomy museum in the world...and about the degree..the listing on imed have nothing to do with the degree conferred..pmc degree is a nui degree and mmmc degree is manipal degree..the listing is based on where the college is situated and not where the degree is conferred..fyi,there are no pmc in ireland because in ireland the students share the same facilites used by the full time student in ucd or rcsi and in manipal we share the same facilities with student from kmc and kmcic..so that is why in imed it is listed as in malaysia and not in the foreign country..about the imu-pms program,it is not listed in imed because it is a program,not an institution...and to clear things bit about the degree,the formation of twinning program,pmc and mmmc is a way for the government to ensure that sponsored students return to msia to fulfill their 10 years contract with the government,hence come the MoU with india and ireland to allow the students to be conferred their full degree but without the clinical trainings there in order to prevent the students from getting away..that is why jpa allocated a fixed amount of student sponsored by them to enter pmc and mmmc for every intake because they know for sure they WILL come back..there are 60 jpa students for every mmmc intake and 40 for pmc intake..about the guy thinking of entering imu for his cousin..just wanted to share what i've been through..b4 i went to india,i have to do my a lvls and pass the cut off points set by jpa...those who fail to pass the cut off point are sent to imu...anyway,if any1 wanted to reply to my post please dont flame me...what i give here is from what i've been through and what i know to be true...im not here to correct any1 just to state what i know to be facts..

Friday August 8, 2008 MYT 8:27:12 PM
Manipal students will be looked after, says ministry
BY LOONG MENG YEE

KUALA LUMPUR: The Health Ministry has assured local students in Manipal University that their welfare will be looked after.

“We are concerned about this matter. If need be, we will even consider credit transfers to allow our students complete their courses at other universities,” said Health Minister Datuk Liow Tiong Lai.

Liow was commenting on the Medical Council of India (MCI)'s announcement last week that it was no longer recognising the Bachelor of Medicine and Bachelor of Surgery degrees offered by Kasturba Medical Colleges in Manipal and Mangalore.

Liow asked the Malaysian Medical Council (MMC) to seek further clarification from its counterpart in India over the decision.

He was speaking after launching Healthylimpics 2008 organised by health-product company Easy Pha-Max Marketing Sdn Bhd here Friday.

Manipal is popular among Malaysians students. Students at the Melaka Manipal Medical College do three years of clinical training in Malaysia and two years of pre-clinical in India.

Meanwhile, Manipal University pro-Chancellor Dr H.S. Ballal said the university was surprised by the “purported” statement from MCI because the matter was under consideration by higher authorities.

“Furthermore, MCI is only a recommendatory body and does not have the power to de-recognise an institute,” he said in a press statement.

He also stressed that Kasturba Medical College (KMC) fulfilled all inspection criteria specified by MCI – faculty quality, staff strength; teaching infrastructure; hospital infrastructure; hospital utilisation; student education and care facilities.

Ballal said KMC had been consistently featured amongst the top five medical colleges in India for the last few decades.

“Over 4000 alumni of KMC are senior practising physicians in the United States. Close to 3,000 doctors in Malaysia are KMC alumni. KMC is the only medical college in India that is also recognised by the New York State Education Board,” he said.

Eh hyper, what's the actuall degree title for MMMC, anyway. I mean the title that's printed on the official cert. I think it shud be MBBS (MMMC) rite? If it's KMC, it'd be MBBS (KMC)

hmm..maybe im wrong then..who is prof razak? my dean explained to us during orientation that our degree will be conferred as mbbs(manipal)....our dean ir prof john arokiasamy in msia and prof ram in manipal....btw,about the pmc,my fren told me the degree conferred is the same with the one conferred to those studyin for 5 yrs...i think imu is overrated....

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Added on August 9, 2008, 2:13 amso u r my senior den?? haha..den u shud know how hard it is eh studyin there...i heard melaka is even tougher..

his the vice dean and also the prof. of community medicine. If that's the case, haha hyper, you'll hafta make MBBS (manipal) as your chop once u be a HO

why? pride for college eh? haha

2 and half years for pre clinical....no big exams for pre clinical but have to pass 3 out of 6 postings or else we cannot go home...

Yes,the agents selling 'zachuts' or 'a pass' are usually Sri Lankans. They are Malaysian agents as well. They all work hand in hand with the dekanat, ie the dean's office.

Everybody wins. Patient loses.