Yesterday HR summon me and ask me to sign:

- resignation letter dated end of last month
- resignation accepted letter from MD dated end of last month
- new offer letter with same pay and title, but annual leaves cut into half, starting dates changed to this month(1st June), and effectively discredited my stay in this company for more then 6 month.

I was told that this is just for documentation sake because I am changing supervisor(new manager came in) and its part of the ISO thingy. And then the manager told me that probation period cannot be more then 6 month.

Can anyone tell me or comment on this situation?

I am a little stunned when they asking me to sign these things, and I am brain storming about the real purpose of doing so;
- r they trying to get rid of me?
- do they think that i am an idiot?
- this is just some ISO practice(bullshit)

I am drilling the offer letters words by words now.

Note: Concluded issue, just added some follow ups.

This post has been edited by rexis: May 14 2009, 08:51 AM

He's trying to circumvent labour law. You will have to sign an acceptance letter only if the company is merging with another company. The rest is just BS.

Can u explain it in more details?

Doc1: resignation letter which i never prepare.
Doc2 : resignation accepted by MD letter and signed by MD.
Doc3&4 : offer letter with tweaked starting date, less annual leaves, and different supervisor.

http://jtksm.mohr.gov.my/

Call them and ask.

The reason given by management is that it is a "standard" procedure and for documentation purpose.

That:
- probation period cannot last longer then 6 months according to labor law.

I called labor dept and they say there is no such thing coz they do not categorize employee in permenant or under probation or temporary, a staff is a staff regardless what status they carrying.

Do you have a choice NOT to sign?
What you mentioned here sounds like a really unprofessional way to deal with job rotation/benefits reduction, if there is any at all!

y should they given u lesser annual leaves n u seems like still can accept it. if i gonna sign anything i make sure the 1 i signing hv a better offer than my current.

No i am not gonna sign anything. Because:

- If i sign on the resignation letter part only, which I really feel like it. I will lose all of this month salary, I still got two month worth of mileage claim there...
- If i sign all the documents, means that I am just another freshie in the company, hence all my previous efforts are discredited and denied, the company has a policy of topping up the difference of the salary upon confirmation (you work 2 month, confirm u at 3rd month and add u 100 salary, you will receive 2month x 100 = RM200)

And if I don't sign,
- they might have a contingency plan, like sack me.
- I have no idea what they going to do!

The big boss prepare the documents and then go for three weeks holiday unbelievable, such a MD of MNC will do so many small small act and strategy just to get rid a person he don't like.

This post has been edited by rexis: Jun 17 2008, 09:46 AM

They can't sack you for no reason. If they do sack you, they will need to compensate you money. Refer to your original offer letter. There should state some of the compensation of this type.

Tell the HR that you did some research and ask around then mention to them that the so called "reasons" they gave you are no valid enough. If you don't feel comfortable signing them, then don't sign. I guess if in the end they do sack you, I will not consider it as a bad thing. Since it's very unprofessional for a MNC company to behave that way. You might want to consider your career prospect in there. If there's anything not legal, you can sue them. Additionally, if the MD went for 3 weeks holiday, tell them you will only sign after having a discussion with the MD to get a proper reason from him/her.

rexis, since you cant really wash ur bum bum cause they cut down the toilet paper supply, I suggest u resign lor. Summore with these docs drama - ur company doesnt sound like it cares much about its most valuable resources.

well wat i dun understand is y ur annual leaves decrease? izzit ur company policy that force u 2 hv higher salary but will cut down ur annual leaves?

i think you deserve an explanation of the real purpose from the boss. You don't need to sign something that you don't understand and don't like right?

well imho, wait for the boss and ask him the real story.

Don't touch the letter. It sounds like a win-lose situation where obviously you're in the losing side.

hei dude~!have u sign it?~!dun ever sign it ok?!instead of signing call to labour law and ask it, they will u i promise

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Added on July 24, 2008, 11:42 pmpls duplicate anything b4 u leave, including the letter u holding now, incase ok?

This post has been edited by AHBOON: Jul 24 2008, 11:42 PM

I have long gone from that company but I owe everyone some conclusion and explanation. Here it is.

I have concluded that I will never sign any resignation letter, and in fact I didnt sign any resignation letter, I just sign the new offer letter, and started another round of probation, and hence, I am treated as a freshie and put below a new manager, its like starting a new job.

The story behind this is that the MD actually do not want me anymore, and he wants his new IT Manager(my title was IT Asst Manager) to take over my job completely(infrastructure). Maybe since that IT Manager is more experience into software part, he needs me for hardware and network support, so he requested to the MD for me to stay.

So this is what I get, for "documentation" purpose, a company cannot extent one's probation forever, after one extended probation, the company has to decide whether to sack me or to confirm me. So their choice is, "I resigned then they offer me another new job and I accepted the offer", below is the detailed explaination:

- Employee left the company: either they sack me or I resigned, in this case, they prepared the resignation letter and suggesting me to sign on it and hence resign from them company, so the company do not need to issue any termination letter.
- Employee sign a new offer with the company: a brand new offer letter with new probation period is being signed.

Conclusion, it is mainly a legal practice for the HR to protect the company.

I see, so the conclusion is that, they are just trying to indirectly force you out of your job.

i guess medium scale sized company usually do tat

Stormy21, that, I am not sure, maybe you can say that they trying to get rid of me indirectly, as for sure the MD do not want me anymore, but the newly hired IT manager wanted me, so I get a neither probation extension nor confirmation, but a new offer.

True, but the mentioned company here is MNC originated from Belgium.

I see, so r u accepting the new offer?

Did you not read this part:

"I have long gone from that company............."


btw, rexis what is the company's name? I don't think it's an offence to reveal the company's name since they are using such unethical ways to 'renew' your probation period so they can rid you anytime in the future.

There's no poing staying in a firm that use such tactics. given if TS "successfully" retain his job with no loss in benefits (after "struggling" and "reasoning"), im sure there are "more things" to come in the future.

I read the probation rule in the document for a company I signed:
"you should undergo a probationary... for 6 months... During this period, emplotment may be terminated by either party giving to the other part one week notice or salary in lieu of notice WITHOUT assigning any reason(s) watsoever.

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Added on May 14, 2009, 6:20 pmso, atleast TS previous company still hiring him back when the company no longer needed him in the current position.

This post has been edited by choongyouqi: May 14 2009, 06:20 PM

It is the new manager need him, not the company.

That's mean your company play around with labour laws with a legal way. At the same time they recruit a new IT manager to take over your roles and responsibilities and relocate you under the new IT manager. It's still ok if they dint deduct your salary.

actually can we choose not to sign any of all those document said by TS???
resignation and offer letter, both dont sign.

eksk86 is a careful reader, pay attention to him

It is meaningless to reveal that company, its being bought over by another firm anyway and most of the management changed. Most of the IT personel including the new IT Manager and the whole singapore team jumped.

Thats the beauty part of probation. Company and yourself can sack each other anytime.

Of course they needed me, I am still useful.

Btw then, people only learn to appreciate things when they seen worse.

I signed the offer letter because HR threaten me that there will be no salary by end of month because I hv no businesses there.

Morning!

Sorry to hear your story Thread Starter.

Paragraph 1: As per my understanding, yu left your company? Right?

Paragraph 2: Yu were to be given extended probationary period. And your signature on the offer letter dictates the said new terms.
Paragraph 3: A request from the new IT Manager to the Management: To retain yu and to be reassigned for "hardware and network support" whereas your previous was in "software part". Dear Thread Starter, remember this "Every single individual is dispensable". Yes. It's as savage as it is. I'm sorry to state the truth and nothing but the whole truth.

Paragraph 4: Very true. Normal probationary period vary from one company to another. Standard: 3 months Max: 6 months. This can be extended to another few months. Depending on company's policy. But rest assured, I'm sure HR has a few "strategies or tactics" (legally) to "explain" the reasonings for probation extension.
(For a smart arse, yu should know where is your standings unless yu are a total nincompoop). For the resignation and acceptance of offer letter, from my previous experience, it's for the ISO standard documentation. (mainly for auditing purposes).

Paragraph 5: The company has done a "favour" for yu actually. Hence they did not offer any termination letter. It's not good for your CV, so to speak. Yu may argue that yu were terminated without justifications, right?
I think your company's HR personnel is not that stupid. Yes, HR has more than what it takes in the sleeves to get rid of "someone within the company. Yu may call us "dirty bastards or b****es" but we are just HR personnel and we are told to do the wet works for the Management.

Lastly, yu are right on the legal practices by the HR to protect the company (for your case, per se). Well, if I'm not mistaken, yu either: already left the company OR are serving notice right now.

Since the Management has NOT lay eyes on yu, I would sincerely ask yu to look for other opportunities. I'm sure there's window of opportunities out there.

I wish yu good luck Thread Starter.

Regards, Joey~~~

This post has been edited by Joey Christensen: May 15 2009, 10:10 AM

Thanks JC for the invaluable opinions.

I was not reassigned with another duty, but just retain my duty and supervised by a new boss.

As I mentioned, I moved on, being unhappy, also for the fact that the company sold and nearly the entire IT team dispensed. So, as you mentioned, "Every single individual is dispensable", I couldn't agree more, and that work in both way, every employer is dispensable too.

Hmmm...since it's that way, I'm sure yu are well aware of your current situation from the Management and your IT Manager. I do hope yu'll able to make ways out of this. Anyways, yu are talented and well equipped with skills and I'm sure there's an employer that appreciates yu better.

Well... for the quote, it's quite true. It's applicable to both ends. EmploYEE and EmploYER alike.

Cheer up!, Rexis. Don't let this matter bog yu down. So what's your plan from ere?

Regards, Joey~~~

baby, i dont think so...bcz still under probation period so no choice
either sign according to co requirment or resign

Sigh~

Thanks for the juicing up, I need it. I am with another employer for a while and again, they do not want to confirm me, details here, I am being offered with monthly contract job. That is, however, off topic.

But that is also why I know this topic case is some labour law documentation gimmicks.

not sure if u read thruly. @__@
before sign it, TS is not under probation period. just that TS got threathen so cant help. im just thinking if in such situation can refuse sign any or not. . ><


haiz... working life especially on down time of economic is pretty hard...
wish u all the best man. u'll definately find someone/company that appreciate ur talent.

Oh no rex, you're having such a hard time! Regardless of new comp or previous comp... Did you critically assess the situation and check what's wrong? Is it because you underperformed to company's expectations or you're really having plain bad luck so far?

This post has been edited by sweet_pez: May 16 2009, 12:44 PM

Before signing any document try to negotiate on what u want from the company..

sweetie, maybe you are right. Bosses like those who wanted to throw his laptop out of the window just because the wifi signal is weak, or those who thinks that his PDA is more important then the main server... or I have too much to complain about. I had a conclusion thou, it doesn't really matter how good or bad you perform, as long as you keep your superior happy, you are good.

Technical things like remote desktop won't help you work more efficient, the most efficient way is to walk all the way to the opposite block, walk pass as many times as possible with a lot of papers and some keyboards in your hand in front of your users, stare at the server while it restart for 20 minutes, just to show that you are working very very hard to fullfil their request.

it is not the substance of ur work, but the form of ur work, especially if ur work is something others don't understand

This is in case they want to fire you, they can do so within 24 hours. I hope you'll look for a job asap as this company is not taking your welfare seriously.