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Renovations 3-phase wiring

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weikee
post Jun 18 2016, 11:11 PM

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QUOTE(Soniaclf @ Jun 18 2016, 10:08 PM)
Anyone knows what is the max power usage I can use for single phase?

Eg, can I on 1x 2.5hp aircon + 1.5hp aircon at the same time together with heater pump and oven?
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Some single story / apartment the breaker switch and main fuse are 40amp, some are 63amps. You need to check your main fuse & breaker switch and wiring size. If 40amp, multiple it with 230 i.e. (40x230) that you max watt can use for a shot period of time, for consistent usage is recommend to only use 80-85%.

d1218
post Jun 19 2016, 12:41 AM

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QUOTE(enriquelee @ Jun 17 2016, 02:49 PM)
Should be ok with Single phase.
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Thx your advice.
Richard
post Jun 19 2016, 12:25 PM

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QUOTE(kengyan @ Jun 19 2016, 11:18 AM)
Single phase are good enough for your usage.But the bill amount could be higher compare to if you upgrade it to 3 phase and wiring are done properly.
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False..

Single phase will be always cheaper than three phase.. less cables, devices and complexities

The only reason you upgrade from single phase is if your max demand is higher than the single phase rating and
you are using equipment that requires three phase supply eg. three phase motors..


QUOTE(kengyan @ Jun 19 2016, 11:18 AM)
Also, if your house got burnt down and you are still on single phase, insurance company have the excuse to deny your claim.
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This statement is also false... Please get your information from the insurance company you are insured with..

Note **kengyan is not a technical educated person.. His post on technical issues are either vague, argumentative and mostly just wrong..

This post has been edited by Richard: Jun 19 2016, 12:32 PM
Richard
post Jun 20 2016, 03:12 PM

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QUOTE(kengyan @ Jun 20 2016, 11:15 AM)
https://www.tnb.com.my/residential/my-tnb-a...ctricity-supply
Do read this before trying to be stupid and slapping your own face.
Insulting, trolling does not means you are good.
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bro.. not trying too hard are you?

This is a good reference. Read it, understand it, refer to the issue at hand and then make an intelligent response..
Richard
post Jun 20 2016, 07:12 PM

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QUOTE(kengyan @ Jun 20 2016, 06:42 PM)
Well, I do understand this from the beginning. Only sinkalan like you refuse to accept your mistake. Even when I applied for electricity supply, the old version form stated > 2 air cond already need 3 phase.
No doubt applying 3 phase need to pay more, but they will reduce the deposit by "paying" your monthly bills when your monthly usage are lesser.
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bro.. please grow up..

You address the issue, debate it, find the solution and accept the consequences.. How is attacking the messenger going to solve anything?

You are an active part of this forum, be true and accurate to contribute.. Stop acting like a child..

ozak
post Jun 21 2016, 10:27 AM

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QUOTE(kengyan @ Jun 20 2016, 06:42 PM)
Well, I do understand this from the beginning. Only sinkalan like you refuse to accept your mistake. Even when I applied for electricity supply, the old version form stated > 2 air cond already need 3 phase.
No doubt applying 3 phase need to pay more, but they will reduce the deposit by "paying" your monthly bills when your monthly usage are lesser.
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You guys been arguing since Long right? 😄

The Tnb is very conflict and no detail in explanation about this need 3P. Use over 50kw should be the best guide. But add in another 2aircon require to 3P is begin to conflict the 50kw. Tnb should teach the user how to calculate the total usage of electrical appliances in a home limit before switch to 3P.

3P doesn't save your bill. It only save the Tnb bill. Our meter use kWh to bill you. Not power factor or unbalance load. If you operate a factory, yes, you will kena fine.
weikee
post Jun 21 2016, 11:02 AM

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Also please NOTE, voltage is now 230v, no longer 240v
ozak
post Jun 21 2016, 01:59 PM

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QUOTE(kengyan @ Jun 21 2016, 12:45 PM)
Well, TNB's statement indeed are too general and I would say it is quite misleading in some sense.
Anyway, just put a probe on a plug point, it is showing 250V.
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It is quite normal. Specially when less user or some line unbalance usage in your area.

I do find sometime as high as 252V. sweat.gif Last time when I have a stabilizer, it keep switch jump.
maxilife1
post Jun 21 2016, 03:29 PM

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QUOTE(Richard @ Jun 18 2016, 11:00 PM)
bro.. say you switch on all the lights in your home..

Now switch on all the aircons in your house..

Now go boil some water and also use the rice cooker.. Pop some popcorn in the microwave on high..

Switch on all your TV's, hifi on full and connect all your sockets chargers, and get your maid to start ironing your clothes..

Make sure all those are on then go and take a hot shower.. using the instant hot water heater

That's the max power you can use for single phase.. also known maximum demand..

Short ans: Look at your DB incoming mcb ampere rating..  Power = Volts I (amps) x pf => 240x40x0.8/1000 kW => 7.68kW(on a 40A single phase DB)
If that doesn't trip your DB after you finish your shower then..

Yes.. you can switch on 1x 2.5hp aircon + 1.5hp aircon at the same time together with heater pump and oven
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good info.. thanks! rclxms.gif

by the way, my house is single phase with 30A fuse..would it be much different if i change it to 100A fuse?

plan to have appliance
1x 2.5hp
1x 1.5hp
1x 1.0hp
1x DC water heater pump

maxilife1
post Jun 21 2016, 04:47 PM

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QUOTE(kengyan @ Jun 21 2016, 03:50 PM)
No problem with that, but make sure you buy heavy insurance, scratch the fuse's 100A wordings and put 30A wording back.
For gaining more knowledge sake, go to TNB or ST's website, that's the place you gain knowledge, not in forums where misleading info are usually being spread.
Single phase only can support up to 60A, inside wiring only can support 13A unless the wiring is done by your self where from buying, hacking, installing and conceal it back.
Putting 100A of fuse but wiring does not changed, you will end up with wire insulation melted follow by exposed wire shorting together and causing fire.
His way are very misleading as you won't know what is happening inside the wall, short term testing won't tell you anything.
If you don't believe me, get a cheapo extension cable and run a 1500W oven for 5 minutes. Then see what happen to that extension.
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thanks! notworthy.gif

means that i still can change to a higher fuse but need to change also the cable so that the cable will not fry rclxub.gif rclxub.gif sweat.gif
kutitata
post Oct 2 2016, 08:51 AM

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what is the maximum loading for 3 phase?

my house has three phase and existing:-

1) central solar water heater with pump

2) 7 a/c points

can I add another 4 a/c points?

At max I think only 4-5 a/c will be on at the same time. Just for sake of discussion we can assume each a/c to be 2HP.

This post has been edited by kutitata: Oct 2 2016, 08:51 AM
Richard
post Oct 3 2016, 06:43 AM

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QUOTE(kutitata @ Oct 2 2016, 08:51 AM)
what is the maximum loading for 3 phase?

my house has three phase and existing:-

1) central solar water heater with pump

2) 7 a/c points

can I add another 4 a/c points?

At max I think only 4-5 a/c will be on at the same time. Just for sake of discussion we can assume each a/c to be 2HP.
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For the sake of discussion if you balance the load equally that's just 2 numbers 2HP (roughly 2 x 7 Amps(running)) air conditioners on at a time..

just don't let all of them start up the same time because of the high starting current ..

In the interest of safety get a competent wire man to check and do your wiring.. Tell him to check and balance the electrical load ..
Joink
post Nov 17 2016, 09:49 PM

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What's the best load allocation for 3 phase? Do i assign 1 phase for each floor or 1 phase for just aircon, etc.... Thanks
Richard
post Nov 17 2016, 11:02 PM

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QUOTE(Joink @ Nov 17 2016, 09:49 PM)
What's the best load allocation for 3 phase?
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Ideally the load is balanced across all 3 phases then there is no unbalanced current running in the neutral..

Thus all motors shall be 3 phases, as a single phase motor requires a start (to generate a phase shift for starting torque) and run (to maintain that phase shift) capacitor..

If the system has single phase loads then to balanced each motor loads across the 3 phases..

QUOTE(Joink @ Nov 17 2016, 09:49 PM)
Do i assign 1 phase for each floor or 1 phase for just aircon, etc.... Thanks
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Each single phase aircon on separate phase..
ozak
post Nov 18 2016, 09:12 AM

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QUOTE(kengyan @ Nov 17 2016, 10:54 PM)
It is depending greatly on the wireman you hired. Some will do a proper job while some will not.
Rightfully each phase should be serving equal load, like each phase serves 2 air conds if you have a total of 6 air conds. You won't be getting a true balanced load if each phase serves a particular section, like 1 phase just to serve 1st floor, 1 for kitchen and another for living. In this case, you will end up with 1 phase running on higher load which defeat your goal.
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As long as you're not running a factory, it is fine to have some unbalance phase. It doesn't effect anything.

As long as each phase doesn't exit the 60A, it is fine. Doesn't matter 1st phase is 10A and 2nd is 50A or 3rd phase is 5A.

Resident are charge according to the wattage using.

Compare to the factory which will be penalise with low power factor.
ozak
post Nov 18 2016, 10:07 AM

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QUOTE(kengyan @ Nov 18 2016, 09:50 AM)
Nope, not that right. If at the end of day only 1 phase out of 3 that running higher load, it don't serve any purpose of load balancing.
Using 3 phase in residential are overkill in some sense but if it is already in 3 phase, is still good to balance the load, this is more to keep the wire cool.
Remember, heat generated = higher resistance.
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Load balancing is only effect the TNB. Who care the TNB.

Unless the meter will charge you with the power factor also, we won't care about it.

It doesn't overload the wire as long as that phase is between 60A using limit. Just like single a phase.

I don't think you and me will going to buy those 3P electrical thing to use. 415v is too danger in my home.

The purpose of TNB asking us to change to 3phase is

1) if you have too many electrical appliances. Running like a factory. Single phase definitely not enough.
2) TNB have unbalance load. Causing the low power factor.
Trande
post Dec 9 2016, 01:17 AM

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Hello knowledgable sifus, I have come to seek for advice. My new house which is a twenty year old apartment can't boil water with an electric kettle and microwave food at the same time. The electricity will "jump".

The fuse on the wall states 40A and I think it is a single phase without db box. It's an old antique wooden box wacko.gif .

My question is can I upgrade to to be able to support 4 a/c, 1 instant water heater, oven, microwave oven and electric kettle/hob if on simultaneously?
Mooneyes
post Dec 10 2016, 12:13 AM

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Can single phase support 6 ac and 2 fridge?
Richard
post Dec 10 2016, 12:55 AM

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QUOTE(Trande @ Dec 9 2016, 01:17 AM)
Hello knowledgable sifus, I have come to seek for advice. My new house which is a twenty year old apartment can't boil water with an electric kettle and microwave food at the same time. The electricity will "jump".

The fuse on the wall states 40A and I think it is a single phase without db box. It's an old antique wooden box wacko.gif .

My question is can I upgrade to to be able to support 4 a/c, 1 instant water heater, oven, microwave oven and electric kettle/hob if on simultaneously?
*
What you are asking cannot be answered without first checking the type, size and condition of your existing electrical wiring..

The simple answer would be to size the required copper conductor to your maximum demand but that is dangerous without knowing the existing load and condition of that circuit..

Please get a competent electrician to check the condition of your existing house wiring..

The electrician will carry a minimum of two measurement tools..

One is a clamp on ammeter to measure amperage and the other should be an insulation tester..

He will see your existing distribution board measure out the load and test the insulation..

Only after that will you get a qualified answer..

Hope that helps..


Richard
post Dec 10 2016, 01:12 AM

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QUOTE(Mooneyes @ Dec 10 2016, 12:13 AM)
Can single phase support 6 ac and 2 fridge?
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If this is all single HP ac units you should have at least 60A cut out fuse with the distribution board and all circuits wired to electrical regulations..

This means all the ac shall have separate individual circuits (20A SP) and wires(2.5mm-4mm) to size..

If you have a large fridge (compressor) then you will need a separate circuit for those as well..

Kitchen electrical circuits are never shared quite simply because of the heavy loads they carry and they have to be terminated properly ..

Periodical testing is also a recommendation..

If you are really doing this please get a quotation from a competent electrician..

It's free and it's the simplest safest way ..

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