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Renovations 3-phase wiring

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mccool
post Dec 12 2012, 12:43 PM

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My house was caught in fire 3 days ago because of newly install TNB meter. Luckily there was no one injuired in this incident and only my shoe rack were burn completely,heavy duty tiles are crack, my ceiling turns black, fortunately I didn't park my car near there but I am really really angry and frustrated with TNB and contractor "Tai Chi" style working attitude. First this TNB blame us of overloading the meter. Come on lah...my husband and I were not around. Nobody was in the house. How to overload?

Then wireman contractor saying that not his fault, definitely can ask TNB for compensation. What he did? He took some photos, collect evidence and so on.....

Then he ask TNB come to discuss with us. You know what the TNB guy saying?
He said it caused by internal problem 'malapetaka' or is 'natural disaster'.
"The spark came from the TNB meter ..but... because of the shoe rack underneath then cause the fire happen." Then the contractor added:"might because of some papers and other flammable material putting on top of the rack."

Their negligence is jeopardizing our safety.


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iraz
post Dec 12 2012, 08:38 PM

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Really sorry to hear this bro...i feel for you.

Yeah dealing with TNB is suck big time for me lah.. They dont have one centralise customer service center..nobody being assigned to my case...its up to me to check and see the appropriate person...


ozak
post Dec 13 2012, 09:11 AM

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QUOTE(mccool @ Dec 12 2012, 12:43 PM)
My house was caught in fire 3 days ago because of newly install TNB meter. Luckily there was no one injuired in this incident and only my shoe rack were burn completely,heavy duty tiles are crack, my ceiling turns black, fortunately I didn't park my car near there but I am really really angry and frustrated with TNB and contractor "Tai Chi" style working attitude. First this TNB blame us of overloading the meter. Come on lah...my husband and I were not around. Nobody was in the house. How to overload?

Then wireman contractor saying that not his fault, definitely can ask TNB for compensation. What he did? He took some photos, collect evidence and so on.....

Then he ask TNB come to discuss with us. You know what the TNB guy saying?
He said it caused by internal problem 'malapetaka' or is 'natural disaster'.
"The spark came from the TNB meter ..but... because of the shoe rack underneath then cause the fire happen." Then the contractor added:"might because of some papers and other flammable material putting on top of the rack."

Their negligence is jeopardizing our safety.
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Have you ask what is the actual cause? The wire loose connection and cause sparking. Or the meter is fault. Try make a claim at the TNB office.

My friend sis house got surge and spoil some electrical applicance. Go TNB claim. First deny their problem. After point to some neighbour also have same problem, than start to admit. Probably they already know after many complain from same area. Now enjoying new TV, fridge etc..

When repairing, try to place the meter at the side of the gate. That will put the meter far away from the house. Most of the new house meter is beside the gate now.
weikee
post Dec 13 2012, 10:11 AM

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That also one of the reason why I enggage TNB to relocate the front 4 black wires. In case of such incident, they don't have excuse that is my illegal modding.

mccool. sorry to hear this, most important no one was hurt and damage is on small area (hopefully). My mom distance neighbor had this issue lucky the damage saw low because it was discover earlier and the entire row of house power trip. They just came replace the burned wires and did not say anything at all.


ozak
post Dec 13 2012, 10:26 AM

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It happen to my beside neighbour too. 1 night of nowhere, the wire joint connecting box catch fire and burn out. Just beside the house front door. Lucky a small burn out. This joint is extend by TNB when neigbour do renovation.

It is the connecting oxidise/loose. It will get hot and eventually melt and burn.

Normally a high voltage cable joint need to seal it properly with somekind of potting material.
weikee
post Dec 13 2012, 10:37 AM

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QUOTE(ozak @ Dec 13 2012, 10:26 AM)
It happen to my beside neighbour too. 1 night of nowhere, the wire joint connecting box catch fire and burn out. Just beside the house front door. Lucky a small burn out. This joint is extend by TNB when neigbour do renovation.

It is the connecting oxidise/loose. It will get hot and eventually melt and burn.

Normally a high voltage cable joint need to seal it properly with somekind of potting material.
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Think also need to see where the supply is. If the house is first half of the entire row of the house it need proper "solder" or sealing material. If after that the supply current have drop, proper tight screw to join both the cables are good already. But they have to measure the heat for safety.

I have test using the laser heat measurement tool (borrow from my friend workshop), few round test the measurement on the join box look reasonable. hopefully stay like that.
ozak
post Dec 13 2012, 11:00 AM

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QUOTE(weikee @ Dec 13 2012, 10:37 AM)
Think also need to see where the supply is. If the house is first half of the entire row of the house it need proper "solder" or sealing material. If after that the supply current have drop, proper tight screw to join both the cables are good already. But they have to measure the heat for safety.

I have test using the laser heat measurement tool (borrow from my friend workshop), few round test the measurement on the join box look reasonable. hopefully stay like that.
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It is the beginning wire come from the pole.

The measurement have to conduct at night to get the max result. Which is the highest load.
weikee
post Dec 13 2012, 11:30 AM

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QUOTE(ozak @ Dec 13 2012, 11:00 AM)
It is the beginning wire come from the pole.

The measurement have to conduct at night to get the max result. Which is the highest load.
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Yeah measure few time difference timing including midnight during hot days.
mccool
post Dec 15 2012, 11:48 AM

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QUOTE(ozak @ Dec 13 2012, 09:11 AM)
Have you ask what is the actual cause? The wire loose connection and cause sparking. Or the meter is fault. Try make a claim at the TNB office.

My friend sis house got surge and spoil some electrical applicance. Go TNB claim. First deny their problem. After point to some neighbour also have same problem, than start to admit. Probably they already know after many complain from same area. Now enjoying new TV, fridge etc..

When repairing, try to place the meter at the side of the gate. That will put the meter far away from the house. Most of the new house meter is beside the gate now.
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Thanks for concerning. We will write a letter to TNB and our contractor, the spark started from the meter box. But I think we will loose since the TNB guy just came to look see look see and claim it's not their fault. He said we can claim but taking longer time. But we don't care, we will keep on pressuring the contractor and TNB.


My heavy duty floor tiles also cracked because of the temperature was too high.

For them, they can push everything. But they never think of our safety.

This post has been edited by mccool: Dec 15 2012, 11:51 AM
enriquelee
post Dec 16 2012, 01:25 PM

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mccool, i feel sorry for you.
Have you find out the cause of fire? If really TNB fault, i think better go TNB by yourself rather than serving letter.
SUSendau02
post Dec 19 2012, 12:19 PM

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QUOTE(ozak @ Nov 19 2012, 05:33 PM)
I always play with this motor or heater and conduct actual test of the ampere running. With the instrument checking, I can see how much the current rushing and how fast it will drop. Even I can put in the same amp fuse without blow it in short time.

Don't worry about the rushing current or bla bla bla. Even if the single phase running max amp, I can simply replace the fuse with a bigger 1.  tongue.gif
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the bigger fuse can take it. but can ur existing cable take it continuously? even if u change to bigger cable, u still cant change the incoming, as it is TNB's property.


Added on December 19, 2012, 12:21 pm3 phase is not needed, if:

a) ur load can be handled by single phase
b) u dun need 400V supply

fixed

This post has been edited by endau02: Dec 19 2012, 02:36 PM
weikee
post Dec 19 2012, 12:54 PM

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QUOTE(endau02 @ Dec 19 2012, 12:19 PM)
the bigger fuse can take it. but can ur existing cable take it continuously? even if u change to bigger cable, u still cant change the incoming, as it is TNB's property.


Added on December 19, 2012, 12:21 pm3 phase is not needed, if:

a) ur load can be handled by single phase
b) u need 400V supply
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Anything with 415v will required 3 Phase. There is no 400V load, country like UK tolerarance voltage is betweet 390v to 440v, and usually the equipment that need 3 phase will have such tolerance level. I believe Bolehland also similar.

A single phase for a house can take up to max 63Amps. Theoratically If all the house in the same row run the load at max, the incoming cable will not be able to take it. Even for 3 phases.
SUSendau02
post Dec 19 2012, 01:33 PM

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QUOTE(weikee @ Dec 19 2012, 12:54 PM)
Anything with 415v will required 3 Phase. There is no 400V load, country like UK tolerarance voltage is betweet 390v to 440v, and usually the equipment that need 3 phase will have such tolerance level. I believe Bolehland also similar.

415V was yesterday. now 3 phase voltage is 400V phase to phase.

A single phase for a house can take up to max 63Amps. Theoratically If all the house in the same row run the load at max, the incoming cable will not be able to take it. Even for 3 phases.

Too bad, its a bad design. My boss will fark me if i do dis kinda work in the panel. Sum of the downstream should not more than the incoming

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weikee
post Dec 19 2012, 02:24 PM

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Please read back what you wrote.

You wrote:

..........................................
3 phase is not needed, if:

a) ur load can be handled by single phase
b) u need 400V supply
.........................................


For load, i don't deal with 3 phase, maybe is a new trendto use 400v, it does not matter because the equipment should be design to have some tolererance level.

This post has been edited by weikee: Dec 19 2012, 02:25 PM
SUSendau02
post Dec 19 2012, 02:35 PM

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QUOTE(weikee @ Dec 19 2012, 02:24 PM)
Please read back what you wrote.

You wrote:

..........................................
3 phase is not needed, if:

a) ur load can be handled by single phase
b) u dont need 400V supply
.........................................
For load, i don't deal with 3 phase, maybe is a new trendto use 400v, it does not matter because the equipment should be design to have some tolererance level.
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ok fixed. thnx n sorry for that.

last time was 415V, now its drop to 400V. simple as that.
weikee
post Dec 19 2012, 03:00 PM

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QUOTE(endau02 @ Dec 19 2012, 02:35 PM)
ok fixed. thnx n sorry for that.

last time was 415V, now its drop to 400V. simple as that.
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Something new I learn today. Thank you.
ozak
post Dec 19 2012, 09:45 PM

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QUOTE(endau02 @ Dec 19 2012, 12:19 PM)
the bigger fuse can take it. but can ur existing cable take it continuously? even if u change to bigger cable, u still cant change the incoming, as it is TNB's property.


Added on December 19, 2012, 12:21 pm3 phase is not needed, if:

a) ur load can be handled by single phase
b) u dun need 400V supply

fixed
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The main TNB wire anytime can handle over 300A. The wire that come into your elcb can handle 100A. And it is very short lenght. The load it not for a single device and it is for distribute. (the whole house)

The changing of the fuse is not like change it to double the amount. And this is for the knowledge people to do it. Not advise for ordinary people.


Added on December 19, 2012, 9:50 pm
QUOTE(endau02 @ Dec 19 2012, 02:35 PM)
ok fixed. thnx n sorry for that.

last time was 415V, now its drop to 400V. simple as that.
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Are you sure now the voltage drop to 400V? My working place still showing 415-420V. And the single phase still give crazy 250v.

This post has been edited by ozak: Dec 19 2012, 09:50 PM
SUSendau02
post Dec 19 2012, 11:27 PM

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QUOTE(ozak @ Dec 19 2012, 09:45 PM)
The main TNB wire anytime can handle over 300A. The wire that come into your elcb can handle 100A. And it is very short lenght. The load it not for a single device and it is for distribute. (the whole house)

The changing of the fuse is not like change it to double the amount. And this is for the knowledge people to do it. Not advise for ordinary people.

indeed very true smile.gif


Added on December 19, 2012, 9:50 pm
Are you sure now the voltage drop to 400V? My working place still showing 415-420V. And the single phase still give crazy 250v.

call in and ask the person incharge

http://orangkompeten.blogspot.com/2009/12/...an-nominal.html

http://www.tnb.com.my/application/uploads/...aded/ESAHv3.pdf


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ozak
post Dec 20 2012, 12:27 AM

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Tha changing seem like no meaning at all. 400 + 10% and 415 + 5% ?

And mostly now the electrical applicance manufacturing don't put the voltage at 230v anymore. All state at 240v. Have you realize it? I have long forgotten when they change it from 230v. It seems like opposite way?

Mostly I deal with Japan voltage which is 100v for single phase and 200v for 3phase/2phase. So I didn't realize what the TNB is changing. ( and seems no change at all)
SUSendau02
post Dec 20 2012, 11:05 AM

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QUOTE(ozak @ Dec 20 2012, 12:27 AM)
Tha changing seem like no meaning at all. 400 + 10% and 415 + 5% ?

And mostly now the electrical applicance manufacturing don't put the voltage at 230v anymore. All state at 240v. Have you realize it? I have long forgotten when they change it from 230v. It seems like opposite way?

Mostly I deal with Japan voltage which is 100v for single phase and 200v for 3phase/2phase. So I didn't realize what the TNB is changing. ( and seems no change at all)
*
ya, 415V to 400V is small amount. too small

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