Errr.... I am confused now, it is Steven's Corner or Steven's Tea Garden that we are discussing on?

Please bare with me, as I don't follow this thread closely, just look at thread title (Steven's Corner) only.

So are you chrissolution ? and can you get their P&L statements ?

PS A handy tip for investing : "you don't make money" is always better than "you lose money". Opportunities will always be available, someone somewhere will always want your money, so for most of us, it's not like we'd die if we didn't invest. So do your due diligence, find out if they're making money, if they're a public listed company you can always get their annual reports. The way STG is trying to fund this is suspicious. Normally if you want to fund an expansion you'd take the company public, get it on the KLSE. There you can be sure everybody's interest is protected. If you can't get on there then you need to rely on private capital. The interests of the small-time investor should always be protected because as a percentage, they're investing more than the big-timers. Big-timers can afford to lose, small-timers can't.

So be mean to them, always ask for anything and everything. If they want you to invest, it's their job to tell you what you need to know. If they walk away, then well and good, you don't lose money. Better that they walk away in the beginning than in the middle. And you can always find other places to invest.

Based on the Securities Commission reply, it has already signalled it is not a public investment scheme, as taking public money for investment (applied to all across) needs Securities Commission approval. So with Steven's Corner is not under Securities Commission approval list, public investment issue is out of question.

FYI, a public investment scheme without Securities Commission approval will mean it is illegal by law.

I don't know the money taken from public is meant for what, may be it is like prepaid scheme or some other thing, I don't know, not want to comment on it unless it is fully clear, may be others can give better answer especially Siliconwiper.com whom is familiar with it.
Yup, as a rule of thumb, don't do any investment on your hard-earned money, unless you are fully clear of it. Opportunity loss is better loss of money. So whenever invest in anything, be sure about them. Investment world is so big, there is not just one or two choice only. Above statement applies to all, not meant for the Steven's issue.

Any deposit-taking scheme is automatically illegal in this country. This is why paypal can't operate here.

siliconwiper.com, if you wish to just post something out for information and refuse to have anybody give their feedback or do any discussions on it, then you are better off just creating a blog on it, and disabling all comments. And even then, this will not stop many other ppl from making links to it and making comments on it from their own blogs either.

at the end of the day, you post out info into a discussion forum, and it gets discussed, and the items of discussions may or may not be to your liking. Its pretty much as simple as that.

well...for ur infos....why not on the world could there be two seperate registered identity??? Now things get to be interesting when silicon mentioned the distinction between the 'family brand' name and the 'line brand' name...Frankly...After the end of the day...they are 2 different identity... Well...Don't know whether I am correct but based on the case of Kleinwort Benson v Malaysia Mining Corp (1989) ...Take note that....Unless the T&C was stated...Ther family brand will not be liable for its line brand... Well... in other words, the event can be organized by the family brand and not liable by the line brand when loss occured, u can simply draw an analogy with the topic above. So no offence but if i really got to comment on it....despite the results... Then Steven corner is actually using a few protection schemes by its own.

1) Family brand oragnized an event for the interest of line brand thus anything happend goes to the family brand. one might said it is plain stupid to damage the image of family brand...well...the golden rule is...if it is worth to do so... just do it. A damaged family brand can be abolished by the corporation and new brand can be build. Well...Really no offence but the worst possibility if u guys really wanna know... the group will registered under Steven tea corner and the money which collected by the event organized by steven corner will be transfered there....steven corner closed up and no body will get caught or being liable. When it is time for check up...mosty of the time...it is too late.
2)Exclusion clause. like all the other companies policy, i dunno whether this element was being used but predictably...positive.
3)The hidden of real intention- to use the name of promotion such as prepaid to eat for 5 years like u 20 years old eat until u married... but the intention was actually creating a MLM scheme so either to
i)clear off current debts
ii)pay off current suppliers credits
iii)shortage of cash to purchase new technology or system
iv)etc....or
v)worse come to worst- as mentioned by chatwarrior- run off with the amount of money collected.

The comment above was based on the interest of party which oposed to Steven corner

So I tried to think of the positive side of steven's corner again despite the results

They are just doing an investment and avoid the prcedure to be registered to KLSE because they wanna remain in a family business dont wish to further expand their legal structure. So this is the way but unfortunately it is not allowed in malaysia.... so they'd decided to use a promotion namely prepaid to eat is used to:
i)develop further business expansion by using the money collected in the promotion campaign.
ii)get public's attention
iii)promote steven's tea garden which is the new line brand of steven's corner.

with the objective of bringing up steven's publicity so to get loan easier in the future, advantages of putting leverage on suppliers, increase profit margin and bring down it's industrial rivals such as BRj and Genting corner...etc.

_____
but no matter how i gotto explain for steven's corner....something keep bugging my mind...so i hope silicon can explain further question for me or us:

1)we are paying RM3000 for 5 years and steven is paying us RM6k in cash and Rm3k in foods. forget about the RM3k. 20k places of membership will pay steven RM60,000,000(rm60m) they plan to get 100 outlets. well...so the tricky part is here.

100 outlets and few outlets u mentioned -rental fee is about RM30k a month or maybe more. steven gotto pay out bout Rm3m to rental a month
the return which promised to pay off 20k memebrs (put it as RM120 instead of full Rm150 )- RM2.4million per month

so altogether steven actually gotto paid 324 million of ringgit malaysia for 5 years (excluded the fix cost, overheads, taxes, dividens, etc) if wanna add up everything i'd estimated Rm162 million for wages [30 (employees for 3 shifts of 20 hours a day to serve 50 tables there is 10 employees per shift ) X Rm900 (per employee) X 12 (months) X 5 (years) X 100 (outlets)]

fix cost is at elast 36 millions to 50 millions of ringgit malaysia. ( I estimated the lowest fix cost of Rm600 without added up the rental)

Altogether- RM324millions +RM 162 million + RM36 million= Rm522,000,000 despite maintainence fee, taxes, licenses, interest, purchase of new technology, bonus for workers( since my estimation is only Rm900 per worker to work 8 hours with 1 hour rest so incentives must be given e.g- foods and beverages)

RM60million collected from the public that is 11.5% of  Rm522 million nia 

_______________________________put that aside______________________________

well, silicon metioned a RM45million of revenue a month..wow that's alot. Rm45million gave steven RM540 million a years which is equlibrium of 300 mcdonald franchise steven can own a year if the mcdonald franchise can be negotiate till RM1.8 million. but with these money why not generate into someting more powerful.
Wow...u dam geng. The golden rule is getting nothing is better than losing something.

Perhaps its the given number of 45 million that casts even more suspicion onto this entire thing in the first place? 45 million per month is 540 million per year. Even Bursa Malaysia Berhad (as in the company running KLSE, not the entire KLSE itself) only has got a revenue of 443 million per year.

>.they are 2 different identity

what you mean entity it is?

All these so-called malaysia entrepreneurs like easypharm's boss or steven of steven corner care less
about you, all they want is your money     

even steve tea garden gulong tikar, it won't affect steven corner at all

another example is easypharm max.

You can see their ad day in and day out, but guess what this company doesn't
even earn any money yet, but they do is to create hype, to lure investor

they are basically burning investor's money of course this end pretty soon...
the boss himself is awarded with enterpreneur of the year.....

...as you can see they are very few real enterprenuer in msia     

Good post by liez above.

2 important points I like to add(which is enough in order NOT to trust them):

1) They are using a MLM scheme but siliCON is smart enough not to mention it here. Even their website hide the MLM part;

2) They are definitely taking public's money to expand their business. Nothin g wrong about it but very wrong to use FUTURE projects to lure. (until today, Genting, Times Square, Mid-Valley have not confirmed yet, Pyramid is not ready yet). All past MLM scams used "future projects" to lure members in.
And to the last poster - It is common and always for SCAM Companies to register a few names so that it is easier to escape the law as liez above explained.

Haha,

SiliCon did not actually reply to my last post about the MLM part and my comments on their announcing the 4 outlets earlier to lure or cheat people to join. Instead, he beat around the bush with Sunway pyramid's outlet.

With forums, people are no longer so stupid like before.

Errr...
If STG has nothing to do with Steven Corner, then can we please totally ignore the Steven Corner issue. (if both are separate entity, as based on the information posted).
So STG is a new company or what? and has one outlet at Sunway Pyramid? right? Kinda confuse if keep on dragging like that.

If STG has nothing to do with Steven Corner, then whatever STG did or future plan has nothing to do with Steven Corner nor Steven Corner will hold any reponsibility on STG nor getting/sharing the profit.

Can we please discuss in a more accurate way or specific targer? seems like just going round and round without much progress (in term find out accurate STG informatin and legality issues of taking public money <--- main issue)

I had visited the STG website (on my curiousity due to the discussion in this thread), I can't find any statement in the website stating the company got programme/scheme/member or prepaid to eat etc.

Please and please, we sort out the legality issue first, can we? I don't want this discussion always in the round circle ended up at the same point.
Whether STG can make profit, open which branch, who owns it etc is the secondary issue. After we sort out and clear about the legitimate of it, then only we proceed, still not too late.

hmm...sorry....didnt expect workers will actually worked for wages lower than RM900 and more than 8 hours....my miscalculation. but then....hmm...the rental fee should be more or less the amount even a landed ones....for say...the one in genting kalng... i guess at elast 15k is needed for that area.

prepaid is just the name, you can exchange the prepaid coupon for cash

that is the loophole

Aiyoyooo, please don't 'pusing' again, can we, don't need to blar blar further? Already enough pening, please. 

We just asked (already mentioned in the previous post, now ask me back again), come back the the circle.
NVM.

First question:
Is it legitimate and legal by law for STG to sell Rm3000 prepaid voucher? <-- that's the first and ultimate most important fact to clear up.

Stamp by lawyer is meant by it is deemed a contract between both parties only. Just like people use lawyer to do tenancy agreement and S&P.

It doesn't mean, what we speak of legal issue at the previous posts aka when STG issue public prepaid voucher then is it or not the prepaid scheme is against under Malaysia law/SC rules, or BNM ruling.
I have posted this question many times already, still no answer given, instead answer given always 'pusing' again.  I still stand at a more neutral point to find out it.

But please don't use 'come and read it yourself'. It won't serve much good in the discussion in this forum. As everyone just post the line like that then no discussion can be proceed from here. Instead if sincerely want people to find out more and have better understanding picture of it, then should at least tell people this contract means xxx issue and this contract is meant for what purposes and who are the company and risk of people taking up on it. I don't think it is hard to type a few lines of the contract clauses. It is much better than an answer like come and read yourself. No offence.
Then when people clear about it, then surely the people will reduce the suspectibility on it. We just want to find out more and clear about the issue for the best of interest of general public.

I agree on getting the legal issue sorted before going messy into the business operation.

In fact, I am curious on one issue. As this has been checked by SC and BNM, why not these two bodies do not continue the investigation to validate the business nature?
For your information, my elder brother's friend has invested "some" money into it and my elder brother seems to be interested as well. I am trying to get some legal information on this here.

Thanks.

Securities Commission said it is not an investment, so if it is a public investment then it already violate the the rules/law already. So it is not a legal investment if it is an investment.

There are thousand and ten of thousand of company out there, even investigate one by one (one per day), 10 years also can't finish. Normally they will investigate into something when it become high profile and lot of complaints from public.

If the operator is unwilling to disclose the info asked, then there is no point to invest in. And it is your money counts, not theirs.

Malaysians like to take the risks, even though warned many, many times before. They look for what supposed to be good , and ignore the likely actual  bad  results.

This  is our culture, hard to change.

siliconwiper.com,

I do not have the chance to look at any contract. That's the reason why I am concerned about it as my elder brother seems interested.

So, this is NOT an investment. This is NOT a MLM business.

What is it? Let me guess, it is a PERSONAL AGREEMENT between the "individual" and STG?

So, "IF" anything bad happens legally, it will only be a civil case, NOT a crime case.

I know that I am having a lot of "assumptions" here. Correct me if I am wrong

Hi Silicon,

Do not ask me. Your job is to answer your members as above.

I am not  the management of this company.

Eat and get paid ( and paying RM 3,000 ) could be an Islamic scheme if you call it. But what is the  purpose of behind a purpose, the members have the rights to know.

Precisely, who will be top up their prepaid TNG up to Rm3,000.

If STG offers prepaid Rm3,000 for public to buy that's mean pubic fork out Rm3,000 first before eat, so why need to prepaid, can't just pay a few bucks or even hundred everytime take the meal? unless something extra benefit or so called return or special discount <--- which can fall into grey area.

People use TNG for convenience purpose to access tolls, buses. Still people top up until reasonable usage amount only, not Rm3,000 in one go. STG prepaid of Rm3,000 only can take the meal at STG. Sound not logical to buy a Rm3,000 just to take the meal in one place.

Still TNG needs BNM approval for taking public money as prepaid, if not mistaken as said by Jean72.

Ok, let's me reframe all things together:

Some of the issues are explained by other forumers:
So STG or as Siliconwiper explained :
1) it is not an investment.
2) it is not a prepaid
3) but it is a prepaid membership. As claimed prepaid membership is not as same with prepaid scheme for public.
That's true, prepaid membership is not same as public prepaid, nice loophole. If offer to member, then can get rid of public issue. Something grey area that let lawyer to tackle on this. Don't get me wrong here, as long thing/issue is not violating the law, then on paper everything is fine.

So your prepaid membership of RM3,000 can become Rm6,000 (in cash? or voucher?) So if it is a cash, the STG need to generate 100% profit in 5 years time, that's mean 20% p.a. which Warren Buffet also can't guarantee their shareholders this kind of return rate. Err... STG guarantee it in the contract clause? I don't know and clear about, that's why I ask.

So if RM3,000 can become Rm6,000 cash (if it is in cash), (if it is only in food voucher different story), then this is not classified as investment? Then what should we called it? 

Cheers 

Cherroy,

That's what i have been asking...with RM6,000 cash return, what else to call other than investment?

Silicon been confirming more than once that the RM 6,000 is a token of appreciation/form of advertisement fees, being paid to the members for being supportive. I don't know their biz nature stated in their M&A...it has to be somekind of public membership biz in order for them to be able to have these so call advertisement expenses to be tax deductable. And to be such biz, they do need some kind of licence? or they don't? I am not sure...

How many times must I repeat the followings in order for you people to understand ? What you people know and understand is enough for you to decide whether this "investment" of RM3,000 is a SCAM or not and whether it is worth your RISK or not:

1) They are using a MLM scheme but siliCON is smart enough not to mention it here. Even their website hide the MLM part. You think anyone want to pay RM3,000 ahead just to eat. When you attend their presention they will CONvince you join as an INVESTMENT. You get to eat, get paid and also can be very very rich with their MLM scheme.

2) They are definitely taking public's money to expand their business. Nothing wrong about it but very wrong to use LIES and FUTURE projects to lure. (until today, Genting, Times Square, Mid-Valley have not confirmed yet, Pyramid is not ready yet). All past MLM scams have used suct tactics of "future projects and dreams" to lure members in.

3) No need to check with lawyer. It is a legal business. All past MLM and most scam Companies are legal and give their members legal documents until they went bust or disappeared. Island RED Cafe even give a name in the ROC, much more legal and attractive. No need to ask Bank Negara, Securities Commissioner or the Trade Ministry(MLM controlled by them) unless you have connections with someone powerful there to take action. But then, I am sure Steven's Corner people have connections too. Just like Lampe Berger business, they have strong connections with MCA.

There are always grey areas and no matter how you interprete: INVESTEMENT, SCAM, PYRAMID or MLM always have 2  or more interpretations depending who you are and which side you stand for.

For those who paid, just PRAY hard you get your value back before they go bust but do NOT recruit any friends in because you don't want to be blamed later. For those who are not in yet, to risk or not to risk is again your choice.

As for SiliCON or Chrisolution, he is different. I am told he has got some profit-sharing arrangement from the management so he will not stop promoting it.

---

Added on July 4, 2008, 2:38 pmkimhoong,

All MLM and Investment Scams have some common tricks:

a) No one force you to pay;
b) Before you pay, they will not caution or advise you to read the terms and conditions. After you paid, they will remind you to read the conditions yourself.

Ask for your brother's payment; he knows best whether he was told to pay with any degree of investment or not. Why not you ask him what makes him joined and let us know ?

Please ask him whether he was told the marketing plan and that he can make money by recruiting others ?

Make sure you remind him NOT to bring in other victims. Just take the money paid as a good lesson fee and eat as fast as he can to get his value back but DISCREETLY.

You know what, most forumers here are most concern on this part because too good to be true. That's why people interest to find out.

Without viable in financial term to support the payout, it is not sustainable over the long run. <--- that's where people afraid of. Not because of the prepaid alone. Company needs to make enough profit to payout the 'prepaid membership reward'. But if company can make enough profit, why not take up bank loan to finance it, instead need to look for public to get the money? As calculated by other forumers, over 5 years, one can earn Rm6k from RM3k 'prepaid' translated into 20% p.a. while taking OD from banks is around BLR + 1% (less then 8%).

You know mentioned yourself, it is not logical to have Rm3K prepaid, then why not prepaid is like Rm50 or RM100, then better sense and logical?
If it is a prepaid of like Rm100, while with prepaid voucher, everytime spend it can get 10 or 20%, or pay Rm100 can get a preaid voucher like Rm120 to eat later, still make sense and people still more confidence with it and more willing to take up without much susceptibility.

Instead now the prepaid become something that can earn money one, people become more concern as there is no free lunch in the world, or there is no such a 'big frog hobble around the street'. 
Something too good to be true will lead to more susceptibility for those well informed people out there, instead attracting them.

So if the prepaid is true then should be sincerely explain clearly to others, not the like a single line of 'if a company are willing to pay you for eating at their restaurant? OK?' then it is hard for others to understand. After all this thread is meant to have discussino in it and have clearer picture of it and truth behind it, right?   

The magazine that you had mentioned may not make this up, but do note that they are only reporting what was told to them. There is also the possibility of the person who had informed them of this is making this up.

Come to think of it, can you provide more information about this magazine that you had mentioned here. I'm curious enough about this case now to want to go and check out their article on this, and also wanting to check with them on exactly how much background investigation they had done to verify what they had been told before they had published the article.

Ok, let summarise a bit.

If there is no legal issue (I still think not fully clarify because of the 'prepaid membership' return issue). Whether they are running behind a MLM money game or not, we don't know.
Siliconwiper.com said no, while Chatwarrior said might be.

Possibility :
1) So if is is a MLM money game with legitimate business, then it can close shop after taking in RM3k 'prepaid membership' after there is no newcomers or late comers to support the money game. Businesses wise won't care much, as it can be a platform to make the company legitmate while secretive running money on behind. There are some might be running this way (one claimed to be a big company, S**),  as recently being investigated by Securities Commission as reported. Having legitimate business might not mean they are not running MLM money game behind, as above mentioned.

2) It is a legitmate business with legitimate 'prepaid membership'.
It become some sort like instead taking out own money to invest in opening branches, with the 'prepaid membership' scheme, STG is taking advantage of using public money (Rm3K 'prepaid membership') as their capital which is quite a clever move. As STG shift the risk from their own to public. While with 'prepaid', they at least secure some customers to come to eat. <-- secure some customers base.

So even STG business won't be good and no profitable and eventually close shop, what they loss won't be totally on their own money as some are from the public money already. As once STG closed shop, so does those 'prepaid' amount, nowhere to use those prepaid (3k) anymore, right? STG and Steven Corner's are separate entity, so Steven Corner's won't bare any liability of STG.
But if business is good and highly profitable, 'prepaid members' being rewarded. <-- this issue hasn't properly and fully clear in term of legal issue (if it is not investment, then how to classify something prepaid that can yield return)
It is a very clever move, STG has shift the business risk to the 'prepaid members'

Above is the possibility in this issue that I can observed based on information posted. Not mean to comment on STG whether it is or not.
Judge you own and 'prepaid' with your own risk.   

So there is a purpose behind the purpose.

STG is set up as a new entity. As far as risk is concerned, is separated from the parent co. This is to protect the parent co if the new venture ( STG)  fails. But Brand name of parent is borrowed and closely linked. As far as legal entity and issues, they are separated.

The parent co would want to list STG in Bursa ( for public money )  if possible, but it cannot qualify for it.

And parent co still  wants the money from the public, so a scheme is designed such a way it does not have to comply with SC or BNM. MLM 's concept  is adopted but they do away with it  in black and white.

Finally, they need to add some incentives to members, so eat and you get paid ( taking advantage of our culture ).

I would not say the designer's scheme would work or would not work, but just pointing out the intentions they might have.

P/S : read  moderator's statements whether scheme would work or not.

Judge your own. And think before you eat ( need to sign an agreement )

In reply to cherroy and all of us, SiliCON will reply, :

"Why don't it works, why must anyone want to do a business that will not work ? Why must you people think negative ? Success are for those who think positive, believe in it and took the opportunity. Why don't you come to our office and ask all the members whether they are happy and got their vouchers and income ? You people are all just speculating which is not fair to us. Who knows how to run the business better ? Of course the management themselves. The SC/STG management don't need to explain to the public how they make money. Why should they teach competitors how to do business ? If we are not legal, you think magazines will right about us ? You think lawyers will represent us ? We have even got some proffessionals who joined us.

BTW, cherroy, S.CON never said that this is not a MLM scheme although he dare not or pretend not to notice my statement. I did not mention MIGHT BE. I am 100% sure they are using a MLM scheme.

SiliCON kept asking me why don't I comment on Sunway. Why should I ? He/she kept repeating his excuses for the other 3 places not taken and pretended to ignore that fact that he SHOULD NOT use unconfirmed projects to LURE or CHEAT the public in the first place. He thinks we are fools. Kept using those magazines. I knew that magazine background very well. For RM3,000 to RM6,000, they can give you all sorts of report and make it appears like a piece of corporate news and not an advertisement. THat was how IPC publicize themselves in that same magazine. IPC was so big earlier last year even the MAJOR newspapers reported that they was voted best enterprenuership. More and more people believed them and paid huge to them with return of 5% monthly. What happened to them now ? They just give some excuses and stopped paying the members and investors.

In future, when the repayments and food cost become higher and more than the money that STG/SC could collect from newcomers, they can come out with some excuses like:"They was some MIScalculations and MISplannings earlier and the STG is running a loss if they will to keep paying that 5% money or food bills. No choice but do stop it". So long as those on top of the pyramid do not make any complaints, the other victims will slowly forget or forgive. This is Malaysia culture. If they really cannot control the situation, they can still get away from the law. It's all well prepared.

I found something worth thinking from this thread:

I think 20% "profit" per annum is "a great business" although I am not a businessman.

Question: Why not getting bank loan straightaway to avoid all the fuss?

Possible Answer:
1. Bank loan is not possible ? Why?
2. To gain more publicity ? Why RM3K? - it's not a small amount and may be backfired
3. Because it is "responsible-less" (if anything wrong with the business, just "cabut" - well, there is such a "possibility")
4. < open to opinion >
Too bad. My elder brother is at hometown (not quite far from KL) and has little knowledge on what's happening around. That's the main reason he asked for my opinion.

He told me the plan is about RM3K investment with RM150 return per month (for each RM3K investment) for 5 years (~RM9K after 5 years). He was told it's about Steven's Corner. That's the information he has.

Yes, I know my elder brother is ill-informed but I think his other friends are not any better.

" Question: Why not getting bank loan straightaway to avoid all the fuss?"

I try to answer this Q on behalf of S omeone...............

STG is a fairly new set up co, and banks normally do not lend to new co without so  called track records. However, if Steven Corner is be to become the guarantor for STG , then there is a chance for STG to get a bank loan.

But if Steven Corner needs to a guarantor. then what is the point  to set up STG ? We may as well use Steven Corner Brand name  and entity  to expand our businesses . After all, Steven Corner is still liable to pay back the loan if STG fails. Steven Corner needs to pay bank interest also.

It is why , we do not need a bank loan.

Correct me if I am wrong.

Mobile Wallet close shop already?

After you mentioned Mobile Wallet, I remind back some of the MW issue discussed before. Err... STG issue is quite similar to it though. Also got prepaid then get return rate afterwards one.
Don't mean to comment much on STG. Better let Siliconwiper or other familiar with it to comment. I am just an outsiders that are curious and for the best of interest of public, try to find out the actual and exact thing that is happening.

I remembered once some forumers also strongly promoting those scheme (MW) also. But I can't find anything (regarding the prepaid/investment) from the legitimate official website, but the forumers said the scheme so complicated until they didn't put in the website, and ask people come and see yourself. 

No, Steven's Corner accepts those prepaid voucher doesn't mean they are attached in term of company law/liability issue. Please don't confuse people out there. It has nothing to do with the company entity in term of law. Please separate out these 2 entity so that people have a clearer view, otherwise it can be very confusing for those not familiar with company law. Just like you said before, the contract stamped by lawyer is between 'prepaid member' and STG only. It has nothing to do with Steven Corner's.

1) yes, fair enough
2) no problem with that
3) nothing to comment, no business is guaranteed to be success, once business can sustain itself, then even legitimate and sincere business also need to close shop.
4) I am a business people as well.

Then STG hasn't opened a single store yet, so how bank can approve a 10 millions loan? Steven Corners is the guarantor? or STG already has substantial assets to be a collateral for getting the 10 millions loan? Banks won't loan a company without anything in hand as collateral, right? or a turstfulness of a guarantor. We are not talking of RM10K but 10 millions.

Another link to the loan issue, if indeed got 10 millions loan so with Rm3,000 'prepaid membership', once they can get around 3 thousand plus 'prepaid membership', then the whole company risk has been transferred to the 'prepaid member' already. That's where I said before, this move is very clever in term of or in the view of STG management.

Another issue, why 10 millions? only one shop will be opened in near future, need 10 millions already? For loan like OD, you don't apply too much that you are not going to use because those unused OD will be charged on commitment fee (around 1% interest on those unused OD applied).

Yes, but it become a grey area of investment return already, need a lawyer to debate whether it is prepaid ot investment already. 
That's also the primary risk (if the prepaid membership is true, besides whether it is true or not), no business is guaranteed to make money one especially for those newly set-up one.

" Frankly, if not mistaken STG had requested bank loan before the whole thing started also...and yes it is approved and the loan amounted to RM 10million for the project."

Earlier about a month  ago, he, Sillicon  explained to Jordy that STG was not taking any loan bcos the management does not want to pay for the bank interest.

Jordy did ask S  that the payment to members  from eat and pay , could be much higher than Loan Interest.

So his  above statement did contradict what he said about a month ago. Which version shall we believe ?. Perhaps he needs to make a SD to confirm.

I believe,  likewise the promise  given ( on the payment )  to members could change too in future.

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Added on July 6, 2008, 8:07 am" So there is a purpose behind the purpose.

STG is set up as a new entity. As far as risk is concerned, is separated from the parent co. This is to protect the parent co if the new venture ( STG)  fails. But Brand name of parent is borrowed and closely linked. As far as legal entity and issues, they are separated.

The parent co would want to list STG in Bursa ( for public money )  if possible, but it cannot qualify for it.

And parent co still  wants the money from the public, so a scheme is designed such a way it does not have to comply with SC or BNM. MLM 's concept  is adopted but they do away with it  in black and white.

Finally, they need to add some incentives to members, so eat and you get paid ( taking advantage of our culture ).

I would not say the designer's scheme would work or would not work, but just pointing out the intentions they might have.

P/S : read  moderator's statements whether scheme would work or not.

Judge your own. And think before you eat ( need to sign an agreement )
*"
______________________________________________________________

Q by S: well the above is still a assumed purpose right?

My reply to Silicon  :

Yes, I am making assumptions. The HongKong's police is using this method to probe their suspects.

Result : One thing I find from you is you do not have ideas on Steven Corner/STG 's fianancials, and each time, you too making assumptions when answering to the forumers.

a)After I put up the above message, SiliCON mentioned they actually got bank loan which someone also mentioned SiliCON's statement contradict himself.
b) If SC really got bank loan for STG and yet go with such "prepaid" scheme to collect RM3000 from each customer, all the more it CONFIRM my statement that SC intentionally use such MONEY GAME method so that they can get more money faster(which no need to return in furture, while bank loan you need to return to bank).
c) SiliCON mentioned he already gave excuses why the other 3 places are not opened. The fact that he made a lie of the other 3 places to cheat is a fact. No need excuses, all SCAMS are fond of excuses, everyone knows that. In the first place, it should not be announced that those 3 places will be opened if NOT confirmed yet.

Looks like, the more SiliCON tried to give excuses, the more we EXPOSED him. Normally, a fish got caught only when it opens its mouth too often.

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Added on July 6, 2008, 3:22 pmNo, Mobil Wallet is not closed. Nowadays, big SCAMS don't need to close. They have made so much money that they can afford to maintain their office for many many more years.
It's just that they have totally changed the conditions. For example, members who are promised high monthly return have been cut down. So unhappy members can leave on their own.
Normally, most of these Companies that promises return have a clause that says something like:
"Management reserves the right to change  this a.... and that..... if deem fit......."

By the way, SiliCON never deny(although never admit too) that he is actually the same person as Chrissolution and he is also one of the boss of the new STG scheme, which I found out. For this, he is quite honest to himself.

SiliCON, when will the RM300 scheme be launched ? Your management have been considering it for more than 1 month already. And still not willing to decide on which licensed MLM Company ? Don't your board of directors not to be so stingy la...... RM120,000 is a fair price, no need to look further. The longer you delay, more and more of your members will know this thread, lose confidence with you and leave.

Do you think any boss will put their name in the ROC for a scam business ? BTW, have you told us your name ? Isn't that first question of yours cunning or stupid ?
Of course you will hope I will leave so that you can promote your scheme here. I will not allow you to use this forum to victimise anyone of us. I have my right to enter any thread to stop scams just like you entered forums to promote your business. If you are doing a genuine business with no intentions of cheating anyone, you need not feel annoyed by my postings.

This is expected. Whenever a Scammer or Comman could not CONverse or CONvince anymore, they will behave this manner to avoid further discussions.

BTW, has this SiliCON put his real name and picture up here ? If he is not a CON or one of the boss, wonder why is he afraid to show his face. Must be afraid his SC directors know he is doing marketing here, maybe.

Chat,

but..none of us are putting our photo here. So, to be fair,  we can't based on that to say Silicon is a Con, can we?

Whats the WORSE that could happen if the sceptics (like chat) said untrue stuff and become a "con" . We won't lose $$$$ from that, only lose trust from that person.  Why would that person wanna to great lengths to disprove you? did he earned $$$$ from that ?

You are different, you are trying hard to defend your "business",. because if you really manage to pull through, you gain $$$$ .  But IF whatever you tried to defend here if proven to be CON, hahaha..... alot of ppl's $$$$ lost already. conners wont care about trust.

Anyway, serious and sincere businessperson usually won't mind showing his face to everybody. This is because he has nothing to hide, and if whatever he do really can benefit others by good returns of investment, he'll be much happy to let others see his mugshot and remember him (for promotional purpose mer).

Only scammers are very tactful about disclosing too much of his personal info to the public for fear of backlash. It's a no brainer.

Showing face or no face, has nothing to do with this thread nor contribute to the thread. A scammer won't have a face the written word of scam on their face. 
So please everyone calm down.

Please stay in topic.

A truth will remain a truth, even others accuse it is a scam, there is no reason to angry about it, (showing angry will be looked by others, already being exposed or telling lies), just simply telling the truth then others can easily see and judge the truthfulness of it.
While a scam will remain a scam, no matter how one describes it is not a scam, it is still fishy to others as a fox with tail soon or latter or reveal its tail even though being covered.

So please discuss in proper manner and all towards specific STG issue.

Cheers. 

Read through all the messages from the beginning of this thread and it clearly showed that this scheme cannot be trusted. If you do not have so much time, just read my last 10 to 15 messages is good enough.

If they still managed to CONvince you to see them or attend their talk, go but make you you come back here to report to us before you commit. But this will be a great risk because, once you see them, they will have 101 ways to convince you not to believe with us but to join them. They will have legal documents, convincing speaker, testimonials and projections all set up. It will be good if you can see them and learn how these scams work.

Your money or risk is all yours, use your brain.

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Added on July 11, 2008, 3:56 pmAndrew,

You asked for updates. Well, their openings in Times Square, Mid-Valley & Genting are all lies, so is their tie-up with touch n go and genting worldcard.

Isn't this an advertisement page on the magazine rather than something written by the magazine themselves?

lol...i think now is not really silicon's fault in giving statements that sounds like mlm marketers.....but we got too much influenced by the previous mlm scams who had already used all the methods that silicons used today...lol....i am not siding anyone...but we simply blame too much on silicon now...haha....i felt weird also starting like all the statements by silicon sounds so familiar...now i know...from the previous mlm scammer experts....(doesn't mean silicon is s scammer...juz dat he's trying his best to give explaination but we are too sensitive towards the way he reply) so ppl....cool dpwn ^~^ ...

For a few thousand RMs, anyone can advertise in that magazine, so what ?

Now you mentioned P&C. Earlier you made use of Mid Valley, Genting and Times Square to promote.

You really know how to twist like any other Scammer.

Earlier you mentioned, Genting, Times Square, Mid Valley, Touch n Go. Now, you cannot produce any truth to it, you give the excuses that these establishments are keeping things P & C. Then, you can also claim that the Malaysian Government or Public Bank have already owned majority shares and going to get them a 40 storey building soon as a HQ but things are P & C now, huh ??

Ya, but wasn't these tricks been used before ? 

imo, scammers wouldnt last long.

if he's a con, he'll face the consequences. chatwarrior if you think he's a con then report it rather than wasting your time arguing with him

Silicon, may I ask why are u so aggressively promoting this scheme? U have some equity ownership or paid some fat commission to spin the story in cyberspace?

BTW I have seen one of the flyers too...even the English is written poorly. I find this unacceptable in this country (It may happen quite often in places like Japan/Korea but certainly not here). Even if you wanna con people into the scheme, moreover seek funding from investors, pls pay more to get a professional la.. even any student here can write better than that

And so what they gonna open in all those renowned shopping complexes? Guaranteed profits?

Anytime you guys wanna indulge in a get-rich quick scheme, just use ur common sense lah before getting too greedy. If i got such a blardy profitable and cash-flow rich business, why would I wanna share it with you (or pay multi-levels of commission for typical pyramid structures). I certainly can't see the benefit of having all the trouble, to get minuscule amounts of 3K from thousands of retail investors to invest in my project. Yes like all the other people, I do have the impression that Steven Corners has been making lot of money, judging from the people you see in their premises. But there is more to it than just that.

I don't see any other tycoons coming to us and offering fantastic investment opportunity for little risk and oh yeah, 'guaranteed' returns?
The most close to so called 'guaranteed' returns from a business that i hear of is the IPPs, that force Tenaga to buy the power whether it needs it or not at whatever cost of the raw materials. But that also because of the most ridiculous agreement ever signed and the prevalence of cronyism in the government. And now they are being taxed more. And oh yeah, not forgetting the FD rates you get if the bank don't go bust

If Genting or Berjaya Sports Toto or their IPP arms wanna do this, let me know, I will be the first one to sign up

I heard from one of my friends, the Steven's Tea Garden increase the invest money from RM3,000 to RM3,300 already. The outlet in Sunway Pyramid will be open on August and the outlet in Time squares had been cancelled.