You really know how to pretend, huh ? Who are you trying to fool, the others ?

Anyone who has been to Pandan Indah's SC years ago know that their business was better then. 2 rows of tables along the roodside from the their corner until nearly the partol station for 2 rows of shops. Now, no more on the road side. Even their inside tables and chairs are not alswas full.

As for Devil2, don't pretend you have missed my message. He tried to challenge me to a bet. I accept BUT he chickened out, also pretended to miss my message, without any reply.

You said I don't understand how such scam works ? I already explained well. Not only that, I also pinpointed why I think it'd a scam and you are part of it too. What happened to your claims of Genting, Touch-n-go, Times Square and Mid-Valley ? Haven't you claimed that they are all opening soon ?

I don't know how old are you but you should be ashamed to act in such way. Don't you ever learn ?

Hey guys.  You should take note of this thread as well -

http://forum.lowyat.net/topic/751486

I don't really care about whether it is scam or not.  But asking others to not patronise STG is trying to ensure its failure. 

PS
I find this excerpt totally lame -

In fact, someone mentioned in the "Business Forum" that they will be under investigation soon. You don't want to be held up there for investigation.

Wow. Pergi mamak, kena held up for investigation. 

You walking in grey line all the time is your own choice or business. That is no way to trust SC or STG scheme.

---

Added on July 30, 2008, 11:12 am
Now stop pretending again. YOU made use of Touch n Go, MidValley, Time Square and Genting to promote is considered CHEATING. I never asked for your explainations and there is nothing you can explain or deny about it.

It's a fact, their Pandan Indah's business dropped ever since they have problem with the Ampang MPAJ and not allowed to have tables and chairs outside their shops, don't try to cover up or erase history. I am not asking you questions, again, don't pretend.

Beaten by Devil2 ? Who is he ? I invited him to my new thread in Kopitiam but he dare not go there, why ? I am not here for a fight and I am not here to beat him or you. I am only here to help you guys, caution the others; as well as to help STG. Why should I sabotage STG or SC to make them fail ? If they fail, many innocent people will  lose their investments. I am just discouraging people from going there so that their "investment" scheme will NOT expand further. This is helping them. If more people join their scheme, they will collapse faster. Refer to my old posts as to WHY if you still don't get it.

I am sure you and Devil2 are already involved in the scheme and you guys realise that it is wrong, right ? But you continue because you want to make money from others. I have advised you earlier not to promote anymore. Whatever money you have paid, seek for your refund(I am sure they will refund you if they are sincere and so "laku" as you claimed). Otherwise, just pray to your GOD(if you have one) that they won't close and spend up the vouchers as soon as you can to get back your worth.

Based on your recent reply, a lot of people saw it is a grey area investment due to (I am not saying it is or not, just stated the possible reason why people think so),

1. If it is an public investment scheme (repeated mentioned), then it must have Securities Commission approval. STG is not having Securities Commission approval based on the feedback on previous post, as claimed by Siliconwiper, because it is not a public investment scheme so approval is not needed. Siliconwiper claimed it is a prepaid scheme. But public prepaid scheme still need BNM/BAFIA approval. Then come out MLM issue while MLM still need KPDN licence to run. That's the basic for any public want to know.

So general public might be confusing or have no clear mind of it. While with your previous post saying a lot of company business is running at grey area line, then others might think this scheme also one of it although you might not stated it after all. I am not saying they are right of thinking this way or not either.

Don't get me wrong, I am not saying or commenting anything on it whether it is grey or not grey or a legitimate scheme after all.

2. In this scheme, even one 'invests' into it, one is not the shareholders of STG, right? "Investors" will be enjoying the return rate given by STG, but not participating in STG as a shareholder, right?

To all,

Another point I want to make, as moderator, I want to highlight is that please leave personal issue and attack aside, as lately, the posts replied has nothing to do with STG discussion at all, all just personal confrontation issue. It serves no purpose for this forum.

We are discussing on this particular scheme issue (STG), while Steven Corner is having good business or lousy business has nothing to do with this thread discussion. As STG and Steven Corner are two separate entity even though it might be run by the same boss or family business.

This thread discussion is all about STG prepaid and get paid scheme issue. Whether it is legitimate, or grey area investment or MLM or a scam, or sustainable issue of the scheme is the main discussion point.

For all,

The first priority of this thread is finding out the legitimate issue of the scheme which is the most concern part by the public.

So do your own due diligence based on information available. But please don't 'invest' into something that you don't know about it or unsure about it. You only invest when you are fully clear about it.

So future discussion should be concentrated on this part. Then only proceed from here.

As you can see from my posts all along, I am trying to caution everyone since the OP made use of this forum to PROMOTE(although he claimed SHARE) a scheme that is highly suspicious and I have also highlighted that the way he(OP) is putting up information here is EXACTLY the same manner how past scams worked. My opinions was being challenged and my point of bringing up that Steven's Corner business in Pandan Indah has dropped being one of the reason they have to go into such a scheme because that is what I have heard from them when I was initially approached to get involved with them. Athough legally speaking, Steven Tea's Garden & Steven's Corner are 2 seperate entities; it's a known fact that this STG scheme is being promoted with the use of history & record of SC, thus strengthen the fact that whoever promoting this STG has not been very sincere or honest(read on to my last paragraph on new findings).

As for personal attacks issue, it is clear it only come from Devil2, a newcomer to support SiliCON when it is clear that no one else in this thread actually trust or feel secure about the scheme. It can be clearly seen that Devil2's existence and behaviour of using personal attacks is in the hope of provoking me into having same behaviour like him so that the moderators can BAN us both. If he can achieve that; than OP and/or STG can safely continue to promote this scheme without any stumbling block.

Why am I so sure of this ? Simple; Devil2 started by challenging me into a bet with stalk mentioned. I reacted by giving him adequate time and chance to prove himself if his bet or challenge is sincere. I asked him just do one simple task first before I waste time or effort falling into his trick(I have heard enough of swindlers supporting such scams calling for bets and challenges in order to fool people into believing them). That is:

Put up his agreement(don't matter to me who did it for him, as long as it is valid, legal and secure to me) here first for all to see BUT as usual, he twist and turn. Isn't this good enough to prove that Devil2 is not a person to be trusted ? So how can we simply trust his opinions in all his messages ?

Latest news here. One of my friend was invited to their marketing session and he was told exactly the same way as our OP promoted; his investment money will be secure because SC has so many years of history, business magazines wrote so favourably about them, they have many new outlets coming up and agreement will be given to him. This is where the whole trick gave way. My friend asked for a copy of the agreement to read first. They are reluctant to show, just said it will be signed when payment is made. My friend insisted that he sees the agreement first. Finally they showed it. After reading through, my friend find some conditions that is totally in favour of the Company, among them, it give the Company full rights to change any condition anytime in the future; and he give the excuse that he don't understand law very well and need to consult his lawyer first. The STG people wasn't so happy and asked why should my friend consult a lwayer when that agreement is actually prepared by lawyer. Then my friend insisted on it and they have no choice but to obliged. FINALLY, when my friend wanted to leave and ask for a copy of the agreement so that he can consult his lawyer, the request was REJECTED. Right away, my friend smell scam. Do I need to write more ?

Again, I wish to caution everyone that from my research and observations, I smelled SCAM and don't ask me to prove it(just read all my old posts in this thread), don't ask me why I don't make a police report or why they are still allowed to carry on buisness. Just remember that when the time comes for police to take action(especially in Malaysia) it's already too late. More people would have lost their money(like SWISSCASH, Sunshine & Seaweed etc). So we just do what we can do now.

I will expect more flaming and personal attacks from someone in the hope that the moderators will close this thread so that it will not bring more awareness to others. I hope the moderators will not close this useful thread.

from my point of view is like we borrow Stevy money to do the business and we get back the interest

actually i already into it so this wat i feel monthly get passive income not bad

Can we put both of yours challenge beside? Both of you can quarrel in the PM message as well or sign up lawyer agreement for betting of both if you want to. No offence. 
But forumers here won't be interested to know. 

What interested by forumers out there is the information, opinion regarding this issue out there. The first and foremost for public out there is to know the legitimate issue of the scheme! 

Just hope this thread won't be dragged on and on with only personal confrontation which serve no purpose at all.

Cheers. 

bro, thank you for you picture.
But the main discussion point is the scheme or prepaid scheme as you mentioned. Whether STG menu is class or not is not the main point of discussion
This thread or section is always on financial, busines and investment stuff, not about whether STG food is tasty or menu is class or STG is having good business or not which is totally different issue from the scheme we had talked about some long until now. No offence.

If really want to discuss on those stuff, it might have to move to Kopitiam talks section already.

Cheers. 

i don't understand the whole concept?
mind to explain it?

The Steven's Corner people come out with a new company and new concept, under the name of Steven's Tea Garden, collecting each person at least RM3,000(prepaid to eat scheme) to join as a member with the promise of at least RM150 return in value monthly.

The OP is promoting it here with news and pictures but I consider it a scam and caution everyone to be careful and 2 names here are fighting with me over it.

Please read my old messages or at least post #397, 3rd last paragraph. It sums up all.

Who cares whether the picture is real or fake for now ? You are diverting attention to escape what you or Devil2 could not reply ?

Please refer to my post #397(3rd last paragraph) and explain it if you really wish members here to believe with you.

the RM3000 is like buy a "prepaid" food from Steven's Corner?
and we will take like RM150 per month for 1 or 2 years in return?

p/s:I read about it, the scheme is not transparent enough, not convincing people to join

The legal issue of the scheme is not proven by anyone until now.

Taking money from public for investment without Securities Commission is illegal
Taking money from public for prepaid scheme without BNM/BAFIA approval/consent is illegal
Running a MLM business without KHPD licence is illegal.

Even three issues and above haven't sort it out in the first place until now.

So STG scheme is none of three above? 

I knew there are lot of grey area that anyone can exploit at. Sort it out first above three issues, otherwise already KO in the first hurdle, then nothing much we can discuss further, then only proceed to state out the grey area or fishy part of the scheme which people feel or risk of the scheme or unsustainable issue of the scheme, otherwise the debate will go on and on without much improvement (which we had seen lately)

PS: What I am trying to do is to put everyone focus step by step on the discussion part of the issue.

Discussions on MLM viability or legality or sustainability are are not banned on LYN, and there had indeed been such threads here. It is the attempt to recruit, to promote, to do referrals for MLM that are banned. Try reading the forum rules properly to note the difference.

What is there to debate ? And why do you want to know whether they are legal or not ?
In Malaysia or any country, any business that is registered with a business license is considered legal UNTIL they are proven illegal by law. As I mentioned earlier, by then more people will lose money.

BTW, I am not involved in a debate with anyone. What is there to debate ? It's so clear cut. I am here to CAUTION & INFORM everyone.

I am copying my short story and paste here again for those who missed it:

****Be careful of legal agreements !! They could still scam you***.

To make the long story short, my friend was invited to invest in a Steven's Tea Garden scheme, started by the Steven's Corner mamak stall people. If he invest RM3,000 plus, he is promised to get a return of at least RM150 cash monthly without any need to work, for at least 2 years or more. They tell him Steven's Corner has long history, secure and legal agreemnt prepared by lawyers but never get to see it(legal documents) but only asked to pay first. My friend insisted to see the documents first. Reluctantly they showed him. He was shocked !!

Most of the clauses are to the Company's favour and it include some conditions that the Company has the right to change any conditions if deem fit. That means if my friend invest with the money, the Company has still has the right not to pay simply by changing the conditions later.

Smelling scam, my friend find an excuse to leave by saying he is not familiar with the law and need to consult a lawyer, and requested a copy of the agreement. Their faces changed and refused to let my friend have a copy of the agreement for consultation.

So guys, beware and don't be happy if someone tell you lawyer's agreements are provided.

To: SiliCON
Since you like publicity and more hits for this STG business, I wonder why you don't defend for them in another 2 threads that I invited you ? Or are you afraid that more people are aware of it ? BTW, don't just put those photos, it's not good enough to convince us. Try to put up the agreement here and let everyone see it since you are so sure their business is sincere.

To: Devil2
Stop acting like a child and pretending to forget that BET that you asked for. Backing off because you are afraid of losing ? Let me give you a hint. If you dare bet with me, you are sure to win because STG will never close, only conditions will be changed so that investors will all lose their money eventually.

If you don't believe me, just go and ask for the copy of their agreement. But I doubt you can get it since you are not a member yet, or arn't you ? Maybe your "bro" SiliCON can help to get you a copy.

Honestly, why would somebody fork out RM3K for this and get back RM200 monthly?

Are you sure RM200 monthly? If yes, then how long would that be? RM200 x 12months = RM2.4K (RM600 remaining).

I don't think this will last for long, after 1 year+, you will kick them all out.

If I'm a businessman, I ain't a dumb ass.

It's even more funny when you are trying to share profit with some stranger, just for the lulz.

Sometimes legal documents/agreement are made to be thick and contains dozens of paper, in hope the one signing it won't be bother to read them all. And usually the tricky terms are tucked smack right between the favorable ones.
With such terms, won't that nullify the value of such legal agreement to the standard of toilet paper? At least toilet paper are clean and not smeared with inks from many printed text and mumbo jumbo in the agreement.

Its like getting a $1000 shopping voucher with terms that allows the issuer to change the value of the voucher he see fit.

I don't know. You tell me. So is this thing here supposed to be a MLM? Simple answer expected. Yes or No.
Actually, this reasoning here is now getting rather pathetic. Ownership of a car is drastically different from the agreement that's being signed here. The more accurate comparison is if you're to sign up on a car loan, and part of the terms states that the bank can change any part of the agreement as they like without consulting you at all, even including how much interest you need to pay on it.

But the key point to note here is not to do with not being able to amend for good or for bad, but its more to do with being able to amend the signed agreement without the need to even consult with those who had paid money into the scheme. Any lawyer will tell you that such is an extremely stupid agreement to sign.

---

Added on August 3, 2008, 9:15 am

The answer to this is obvious. If you've signed an agreement that allows them to change the terms and conditions as they see fit, on what basis have you got to sue them at all?

Nice try at twisting the words. Something that is brilliant for a seller may be dumb for a purchaser. Hence the purpose of lawyers in the first place, to craft a document to the benefit of those who had paid them to do so.

Interesting too about your comment on the buyers amending the details, as the more pressing issue is more of on the owners being able to amend without consulting with the buyers.
So by your own words, this scheme of yours can fall under the category of MLM?

You defended this business plan, which you wished to share with all us, so valiantly throughout even though there were some forumers who insisted in a very persistent manner that the entire business thingy was a scam.

You also took pictures of the branch in Sunway Pyramid and posted up in this thread so enthusiastically, even when the moderator had informed that such action is irrelevant as the topic that’s being discussed is about the suspicious characteristic of the whole business plan, all in the name of wanting to update us on the physical progress of the Steven Tea Garden (STG) restaurant.

Now when [fyire] only asked for an answer on whether or not the business plan falls under the Multi-Level Marketing (MLM) category and you, who had dedicated days, weeks and months in backing up this business plan that you wished to share with all of us, couldn’t even him a straight answer?

Pls email me the Franchise opportunity details, i am interested about it!.

My email is kolow20@gmail.com. Thanks

If this is the case, then this thread had just degenerated into a promotion of a F&B outlet. So why is it still doing in the Finance, Business and Investment House section instead of being in Kopitiam?
Correct. You've just killed you earlier point in regards to the 'stupidity' when it comes to the signing of such an agreement just because it is drafted by a lawyer, as it very much depends on the intention of the person hiring the lawyer in the first place.

More to the point now, so what sort of legal protection does a buyer have in this scheme of yours to ensure that the seller is bound to the original points of the agreement, taking into consideration that the agreement grants the seller to change the terms & conditions as they see fit without consulting the buyer?

Based on the way you replied, you must have thought that I was being sarcastic about the way you shared the business plan to all of us but you got it all wrong. I wasn’t being sarcastic when I said about how you defended the business plan so valiantly and also the level of enthusiasm that you have in wanting to post up the pictures of the outlet in Sunway Pyramid. I was amazed at the perseverance level that you have but when you weren't able to give [Fyire] a straight answer to his question on whether or not the business plan falls under the MLM category, that seriously put me off.

I'm not trying to make you feel bad, as I doubt you would, simply based on the way you replied, but I was interested in the business plan until you couldn't give a straight answer to a simple Yes/NO question.

Anyway, I wish you luck in this business.

So in other words, you are now confirming that the wording of the agreement gives the seller the right change the terms of the agreement at any time without consultation with the buyer, including to the point of not needing to abide by the original terms at all?

Furthermore, you are now confirming that due to the above, the seller is rendered immune from any form of legal action from the buyer should the seller does not abide by the original terms due to the fact that the seller can change the terms as they see fit?

And by the way, Devil2 had never at all touched in this aspect of the agreement which is to do with legal protection for the buyer.

I heard my friends talked about it as well. Alot of my friends tempted to join . Eventually they joined .My friends forked out almost 50 thousand on this steven corner project. What i heard is if u "con" someone to join he's under you and you gets 10 percent. If he "con" another person u get 10 percent as well. I believe this is a scam. 300% is alot and it's tempting alot people .

Actually no. This is only you attempting to divert from the issue that the agreement as drafted by STG's lawyers offers the buyer totally zero legal protection should STG attempts not to abide by the original agreement points, seeing that the agreement allows them to change the terms and conditions without consultation to the buyer at all.

An attempt to divert from the point here is akin to an attempt to mislead. Clauses like such are something that all potential buyers of anything should watch out for most of all, as its very existence means that something is not right. Scam or no scam, such a clause is still something that should spark alarms right away, and you have got whoever that is responsible for the drafting of the agreement in such a manner to blame for the bad image given here.

Perhaps you are defensive over this because you are involved in some way with STG, or merely because you have signed up as a member of this, but this does not in any way mean that all is well and that everybody should just trust your words merely because you're a member.
To answer your question directly, yes, that is how I do it. I had my own lawyer check through the agreement when I did my property purchase. For my car loan, I did not go to the extend of getting a lawyer, as its more straight forwards. Case in point here is that I make sure that that I have got sufficient legal protection especially in the purchase of property to ensure that the developer does not try anything funny. If there are clauses that states that the developer is allowed to change the terms and conditions as they see fit, then it is a good sign that the entire thing will turn out to be a scam.

Go back and take a good look at your own car or property purchase agreements, and tell me if you can find any clauses in there that states that the seller is allowed to change anything in there without consultation with you.

In short, you are once again attempting to divert from the point here. Sure, all agreements has got terms and conditions. Having terms and conditions is not the problem. The problem is when part of the agreement allows one party to change the original agreed upon T&C as they see fit without even consulting the other party at all. And again as I had mentioned above, this is akin to an attempt to mislead.

Somehow I just feel that something's just not right. I feel it in my gut.

Perhaps, but it is also very interesting to take note of the fact that:
1) You've not denied the existence of the clause that allows the seller to change the terms and conditions as they see fit without any form of consultation to the buyer at all
2) You've partially confirmed the existence of this clause when you had stated the following before:
Anyways, the one confirmed advice that I can give to all those who are looking at this scheme:
- Make sure to look through the agreement properly to check for such clauses, and be aware of the implication of such clauses
- Consult with your own lawyer on the implications of such an agreement if necessary

Surely you cannot disagree with this right?

Taking aside of issue of the legitimate of the scheme.

Fyire just warning in general of potential of clauses which potential might not in favourable to the investors 'prepaid buyers' which can or might be openly dictated or abused by the offerer depended on the sincerity of the offerer.
I don't see nothing wrong with that. Can't educate and warn people so that to be more alert in whatever investment , prepaid scheme or whatever stuff or contract?

You are the one had signed up the contract, you are the one knows all in and out of the contract compared to forumers out there. You are the one have the copy of the contract as well (after you signed up, you should have the copy, right?)
If sincerely want to help people out there, then you are the one that can help. Please don't be out of topic or twist the focal point by asking people to find out, you should have already knew as you are the one familiar the most with the STG scheme.

Keep on shifting the focal points and twist and turn might lead to more suspectibility of the scheme on the public view.

Cheers.

Of course you have checked the agreement and have no issue with it, because you are part of them now.

Haven't I mentioned earlier that such scams are sure to work because those who SHARE it with others are Birds of the same feathers with the Company. And you don't want the Company to fail since you have invested money and also being actively involved, you may be getting good income from them. It may even be your own rice bowl.
So no matter what you think about them(scam or not), you have to be supporting them. The way you tried so hard to twist already showed.

Wonder if you have any conscience.

---

Added on August 5, 2008, 5:01 pm

If you are picking on me personally, just forget it and don't be childish.
If you are supporting SiliCON or the STG scheme, put up something useful for SiliCON(but they won't be any) as Devil2 left his poor bro alone now.
Just curious, are you Devil2 in another form or another STG member here trying to drown our recent posts that proved STG is a scam  ?

Those who are new, and wish to cut short, just read my post #397(3rd last paragraph) and some of the recent posts by a moderator. It explains all.

Bro Yaozz,

I guess it's abit unfair to use the "Con" in this context, this indirectly implies that STG is a scam. What are the proofs and facts to support your claim by saying STG is "conning" public's money?

---

Added on August 5, 2008, 5:17 pm

I read in the earlier post that mentioned somewhere STG is limiting to a number of 20,000 members? is that true?

From the way i understand about the program, it will only benefit the people whom mainly staying in Klang valley only
at this point of time right? since there will be only 1 STG outlet in Sunway Pyramid in Aug and perhaps a few more by end of the year.

May i know how is the structure of the Board of Directors of STG? just curious to know.

Thanks Silicon!

---

Added on August 5, 2008, 5:22 pm
Chatwarrior,

No, i'm not picking on you. It's just my personal opinion.

btw, is the Steven corner brand new look is completed?

where can see it? enjoy it?

Earlier, they try to buy an existing MLM Company so that they can market it more openly but their bosses is not willing to pay for the price of about 90K. Last heard is they are trying to apply for a new license which will be free but need to wait a while, maybe a few months.

If you fully understand their pay-out commissions scheme, everyone in the MLM industry or the food industry easily tell that soooner or later the Company will have to run away when the day comes when there is no more new investors to come in. Depending on daily business collections will NOT be enough to pay the old members for 2 years. In any MLM systems, the majority of the customers or members will NEVER get to earn. Imagin even if they are so successful that all Malaysians joined, where will the Company get the RM150 cash every month to pay everyone ?

Since they have a clause that the Company have the rights to change conditions later, they could easily change it by paying back less or no pay more and no one can say they are wrong. The point is when everyone is being recruited now, the management or introducer, the uplines, or the pioneers will not highlight this condition to a prospect.

---

Added on August 6, 2008, 5:41 pm
Please read my post 376(3rd last paragraph) and 448, as well as those between them.
Many Companies using such scheme have already changed plan or run away with the Company. There are even licensed Companies.

I believe terms and conditions and the right to alter that as they see fit is a normal thing to do.
I've seen it many times everywhere.
http://www.gov.my/MyGov/BI/Site/TermsAndConditions/
http://www.pg.com/terms.htm
http://exabytes.com.my/about/legal/terms/

With the above quotes, it is not uncommon to have such clauses, as T&C needs to be changed and updated periodically according to needs and future conditions/events. It would be virtually impossible to notify ALL clients on this and manually have them to re-sign everything again, as such the people bound by such agreements ought to practice due diligence to be constantly updated of any changes to the T&C as posted publicly (yes it must be publicly, either on website or bulletin or any printed material by the organization) and if anyone so disagrees, they can cease the service.

Now, when it comes to STG, how close is their "rights to change T&C" to the common disclaimers as above?

---

Added on August 6, 2008, 8:53 pm
Would it even be feasible to consult thousands of buyers in the first place?
Considering each one will have their own POV, and debate over it, before anything gets tangibly approved?

---

Added on August 6, 2008, 8:56 pmSo the saving point is this, if the T&C has been changed to a point where it doesn't favours you, you have the right to cease your membership with STG, otherwise, it is deemed as you would have agreed to it, and it is members' responsibility to keep themselves updated on T&Cs all the time.

Is this correct in me saying this, Mr SilliconWiper? Is there such clause as this?

Which means it is somewhat like an MLM scheme?

Well, looking at the gov.my as well as the pg.com website, you'll find that there's no obligation to make use of the website, or you'll have to forfeit anything should you first agree then decide not to use it later.

A more similar comparison will be such as Exabytes, where you've already paid an amount of money to them for a term of service. However do take note that the Terms & Conditions of Exabytes does not state anything to do with the type of service that you'll be getting, as that is in the pricing or quotation.

In short, if you've signed up for a plan that provides you with xxx amount of storage, it does not allow them to reduce it in any way at all for during the duration of the plan that you've paid in advance for. They can only do so after the expiry of the term that you've paid in advance for.

So with this in mind, it is up to siliconwiper.com to actually clarify the exact nature of the agreement that is signed here.
So once again, it is up to siliconwiper.com to clarify on this, especially on the part on the ceasing of membership as well as if there's any money back should a person decides to pull out, or will the full amount of money be forfeited permanently upon the signing of the contract.

yes they can, but I was not making a reference to Exabytes with that sentence of mine that you had replied to here.
To be more accurate, Charwarrior did not speculate on this, but was relating an experience told to him by a friend of his:

http://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopi...post&p=18973384

Note the following:
- the reluctance to even show the document to the potential before receiving the money
- the refusal to allow the potential client to have a copy of the agreement for further legal consultation

This does very much add to the suspicion.

Furthermore I'll have to say that the responses given out so far has been rather slimy, to the extent of refusing to clarify if this is supposed to be a MLM type of business, but preferring to have the details kept secret instead. Do take note that there's totally zero assurance, or even attempts of assurance of proper legal protection for the buyer by those who had been promoting this scheme heavily here as well.

I believe Raja Petra slept in the cell from a successful slander case in his blog, am I right?
There are also cases of newspapers and bloggers being charged too.
But in due democracy, if one person is free to slander, the other is free to sue, regardless if it is successful or not.
Difference is, STG has the money to sue, does chatwarrior have the money to defend and/or counter sue?

In most cases, it can be settled out of court, to save time. However, is chatwarrior in the position of strength to negotiate such settlement in the first place?

Also, all information presented by the slanderer can be claimed as the cause of false perception given to him by the slandered party. No one will claim otherwise just to be charged.

And do note, they are also responsible to safeguard their reputation by launching a threatening legal suit to chatwarrior (and to the owner of LYN), should this thread and other threads/posts created by chatwarrior in Kopitiam, be officially made known to STG.

Based on his reply, I am perceived that he is just a member. Hardly the employee or official spokesperson, unless STG is really a chinapek company to hire Silliconwiper to answer so, erm *ahem*  *ahem*   hehehe

Just show the agreement contents, thats all. We can verify it ourselves. Otherwise, it goes no where in your ding-dong arguments with chatwarrior.
Not everything needs to depend on lawyers.

I can bet to my last sen that STG/SC and/or SiliCON will not show agreement contents here or allows anyone who have not committed to pay gets a copy of the agreement.

As to whether my action is an act of slander or not is another issue and I am sure some people can figure out why I am so confident,    thank you for your concern.

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Added on August 7, 2008, 7:05 pmThis thread cannot be stopped or deleted since it has be allowed to start.

I am sure many will agree that it can be very useful.

You got no scanner or digital camera? 
Food being nice or not has nothing to do with the agreements.
No it isn't P&C. It is a STANDARD agreement with ALL other members, and none of it was customized for every individual, hence not P&C.

Twisting the subject to copying agreements is pretty childish. By your reply, you aren't helping anything at all for STG, but self-sabotaging it by your sub-standard chinapek replies. It shows that you never put any thought into your words before typing out. Wisdom is greatly lacking in you.

So why bother with this thread anyway? Being hypocritical, are you? 
And why bother when other people calls you a scammer and STG is BS? Why bother at all? Why post replies upon replies?
Why keep contradicting yourself then?
Food business is one thing, recruitment of membership for investment is another thing, both are mutually exclusive.
Opening 100 outlets also doesn't guarantee success. Remember Taza Chicken? It too has many outlets, but in the end they died.

Anyway, enjoy your opening night. Try to get laid if any cute chics are there. I'm stuck at home working (yea, i'm SOHO)