It's hard to dumb things down any further to make my points any clearer. Now if you can't accept that.. Man, that's your prerogative and I respect that. Just don't poison others and deny them exercising their brains. Of course you don't lose.. Cuz there are quite the gullible lot who think what you do is rocket science.. As a regular folk who has meddled in his fair share of varied investment instruments.. I know there's no one basket for all investment. If as a "broker" you don't get this.. Perhaps you should go get your training fee refunded. You sound just like those brokers in the past who greatly encouraged people to always pull out their dividends and use it pay for next year's repayments.. Me wonder what happened to that lot..

Seriously, i know it's someone's rice bowl and all.. but you got to take a chill pill.. This is a public thread on a public forum and a differing of opinions will happen. I'm grateful that some are able to separate the wheat from the chaff.. especially when it comes to agents..

Oh well, at least you agree that BR movement is beyond our control.. See.. common ground..

This post has been edited by voncrane: Aug 24 2018, 08:47 PM

This is why I told you your questions were incomplete:

1. What is the cash value of the insurance? Insurances have costs (commissions payable to the bank)
2. If he had not taken the insurance, the principal outstanding of the loan would ALWAYS have been lower than the current units in ASB

You are missing a few points. please, sit down and listen. nothing is more frustrating than some ignorant who refuses to learn:

a. ASB units are fixed-price. Regardless of the tenure, the price of one unit is ALWAYS RM1. So even if you took out ALL the dividends received every January, you would still end up with 200,000 units, worth RM200,000

b. The ASB-financing principal outstanding would ALWAYS be reduced over the time that you are paying your installments, even after the first month. An installment is made of 2 items: interest (paid to the bank as their profit) and principal repayment (used to reduce the RM200,000 principal o/s that you took earlier.

c. Insurances have upfront costs in the form of commissions payable to the bank (and shared with the banker), it is ignorant from your part to ask about the refinancing status for someone who has a principal outstanding of RM209k, and ASB units of RM200k, without sharing the cash-value of the insurance and without recognizing that the insurances have upfront costs that has already been paid up for.

You are infuriating because you asked those 2 "simple" questions to set me up, but you clearly show that you didn't understand how the ASB-financing works, nor do you understand how ASB units are priced. Nor do you know that these ASB Reducing Term Assurance (ARTT) has their own cash-value that can be redeemed upon surrendering the policies.

If you had known the above item, you would never asked those questions, but you did anyway in a way to set me up. So I had to call out to your ignorance. Good call on your part, now everyone is educated.

Wow, despite the fact that you have be involved in so many investment instruments, you fail to understand the basics of ASB and ASB-financing. I doubt your claim.

And I have never encouraged people to do ASB roll over, that is you putting your words in my mouth, stop being filthy, but they are free to do so. So who is the one who is trying to stop people from exercising their rights to think for themselves?

Finally, I'll just have to mention that your questions are incomplete, you tried to set me up but you didn't have enough knowledge to even ask the proper questions.

This post has been edited by wild_card_my: Aug 24 2018, 08:53 PM

Dude.. i didn't even bother reading beyond the first couple sentences... Go trace back our banter.. I clearly gave you 2 scenarios and added insurance costs in.. YOU chose to ignore the scenarios and replied with some charts and bunch of other stuff that we already know.. So don't come up later and try to make it seem like I don't know what I'm talking about.. There's absolutely nothing you can teach me when it comes to loans, refinancing, repayments, stocks, shares, FUDs, ROIs, etc.. I'm that guy that actually reads the whole terms and conditions, plus privacy policies of every single financial stuff I dabble in.. So rather than trying to attack my person.. You should focus on understanding the clear points (at least to most) that I've raised. You hinted at me being a dumb pigeon.. It appears you called yourself out too early..

Nah fam.. nothing about ASB and ASB-financing is complex at all.. For the average seasoned investor.. It barely registers on the noob scale of investing. Majority of the work is actually done by the ASNB guys..

Edit.. Alright.. Alright.. I'm really done this time before the mods have to step in..

This post has been edited by voncrane: Aug 24 2018, 09:06 PM

Nope, you didn't mention the insurance cash value. I did not ask for insurance cost, I asked for the cash-value of the insurance. Not only you are ignorant, do you have reading comprehension issues as well? Can't tell "cash-value" from "cost of insurance"? Do you even know what it is? For someone who claims that he reads everything, how could he miss out on the insurance cash-value really is? Like I said, I doubt your claims, you probably read a few articles online and decided that it is game time. You can't even understand the benefits of refinancing the ASB-financing when the market interest rate is favorable, what else can we say about you? The true gullible?

You question, as per what I quoted below has NO cash-value information. Without knowing what the cash value is, it is difficult for me to give an exact answer, and I like giving exact answers because I always back my assertions and arguments with numbers and calculation, unlike you despite claiming to have been "dabbled in some investments". Just so you know, the cash value is NOT the cost of insurance. Now I have proven that:

1. Your question was not complete, thus there was no way for me to answer it
2. You wasted your time reading all those terms if you missed out on something as simple as cash-value of the insurance policy
3. You can't tell the difference between cash-value from the cost-of-insurance (which is the wrong term by the way, we call it PREMIUM or CONTRIBUTION, cost-of-insurance is not what you are referring to. Terms, get some: INVESTOPEDIA

You are probably the gullible that you made fun of in your earlier posts

For your education, this is what I meant with the cash value:



Where is the cash-value amount? When he closes this account to take up a different financing for his ASB, he would have his ARTT surrendered and received his units partially.

This post has been edited by wild_card_my: Aug 24 2018, 09:10 PM

Oh now, you ask for the cash value? Posted image not depicting values for 200k.. Enough lah bro.. I already told you that i crafted the questions in ways that a pro should be able to fill in the blanks.. I'm sorry for not being overly clear.. there.. you okay now? feels good? KEK.. Most of my questions are simple yes or no answers.. can or cannot.. simple.. Kindly refer to my previous comment.. I hope you have a good weekend. I know i will.

This post has been edited by voncrane: Aug 24 2018, 09:12 PM

Caught you lying again. I have been asking for the cash-value since the beginning, and the fact that you have been claiming that you have provided it (mistaking cash-value for the insurance premium/contribution) really says a lot about your character. Why would you lie about what other people have said and what you have posted? Please do not lie to cover your tracks, all these things are posted and I have quoted you. Best thing to do for you now is to admit fault.



This post has been edited by wild_card_my: Aug 24 2018, 09:19 PM

Hi just wanna clarify something again...
The dividend for (let's say) year 2017 would only be eligible for 11/12 months of 2018 dividend right? Hope my question makes sense.

Example:
I have rm100 in 2017, earning rm 7 that year (let's say dividend is 7%)
So by 2018, (let's say dividend still 7%), my dividend would be = 7% of rm100 AND 7% of rm7?

Not exactly.. Cuz monthly compounding..

I.e 2017 fiscal year finished December 2017 and your total becomes 107..
Then January it's 107, February is calculated as 7% of January and totaled..call that X.. So X is totaled and 7% added..it goes on and on till December 2018. Dividends are calculated based on the lowest amount of each month. So let's say in January 2018, you withdrew RM5, then they'll calculate for only that month as 102. Then addon from there.

This post has been edited by voncrane: Aug 24 2018, 10:42 PM

I suggest checking my calculator below, it has the exact answer to your question, and since you can edit the monthly minimum balance, you can never go wrong. You can edit the yellow cells. This is made exclusively for ASB/ASB2 because of its nature of dividend calculation:

1. based on the monthly minimum balance
2. dividend declared at the end of the fiscal year, with fixed unit price that doesn't fluctuate at all

I made one just now, try it and see if it is to your liking: Faiz Azmi's ASB dividend calculation for the year

This post has been edited by wild_card_my: Aug 25 2018, 12:59 AM

Hi yvonne,

1. your RM100k cash will be mixed up with your 5 years dividend though. So, if you want to take out your RM100k cash, the bank or agent will take up from the accumulate saving (cash + dividend). No much different. For switching to asb 2, Im not so sure about it.

Yes possible to withdraw and apply another 100k on the same day. Coz new application took about 1-3 weeks to approved. ( Unless the bank can do it on the spot result like CIMB), then you have to gap it about a week to reapply to play safe. For that particular month only, I can say that you had lost the dividend.

2. Lets say your interest rate is about 5.05% (i think), you will get from the bank roughly RM 8,200 +/-. Depends on your loan (either you take some MRTT or not). The amount you will be receiving will be placed into your asb account. (mostly bank do it like this)

3.My suggestion is you just continue the loan. If the interest rate on that time is about the same as now. No problem and its better coz you had reduced a lot of the principle outstanding. If you terminate it and start over, you start back paying most of the monthly installment to the interest payment. You do have option to terminate and reapply if the interest rate on that time have a lot of differences. Or, ASB dividend can no longer overcome the yearly payment.

I suggest you refinance your asb. The current rate is much cheaper. Depends on your loan amount. If your current asb loan is already rm200k, then you need to terminate it first before you can apply for a new one. You cant apply on the same time coz your quota is already full. The termination took about 1 to 3 months depends on the bank and on the branch it self. Let say the loan are still not terminated then you still have to pay the monthly installment until it (the certificate) had been sold.

Good luck

1. You don't have to tell them to take just the capital. This because the size of your asb has grown to your last highest balance effectively. So just take out 100k and apply the 100k loan.

Can withdraw and apply on the same day but doubt the approval will be instantaneous. Best you do it at the start of the month and push the bank real hard to transfer the sijil by end of month. You still lose out on the one month tho as they calculate lowest balance. So once u take out the 100k.... Immediately you lose interest on that 100k for that month. If the bank cannot do within the same month then u lose 2 months.

2. Use amortisation calculator. Funds will be transfered to your savings/current account

3. I would terminate and reapply every 3 to 4 years. This formula has worked for me.

This post has been edited by buggie: Aug 25 2018, 04:55 PM

Lets say i have been paying asb loan for 3 years. And decided to pay lumpsum 50k into the loan. Is it possible to pay it into the principal amount reducing the total loan tenure. Its just that i dont want to terminate and reapply etc.

Yes, it's possible to do that and it'll reduce the loan repayments tenure. It's considered an advance payment. The downside is (according to Maybank..other banks may differ) that this money can't be withdrawn once you put it in UNLESS you terminate the whole thing.. Then all is refunded to you. It's not like some flexi housing loan where one can "park" money to reduce interest paid for the duration it's there, and simply withdraw later as at when needed. My advice, is to consider using the 50K in other investments that can net you more than what the ASB dividends minus loan interest can get you. For example, if you've maxed out ASB & ASB2, you could put that 50K in ASW and leave it there to get say 6% (or whatever it'll net later..) at the end. Doing this should give you more than you'd save from putting it into the loan account... And if say next year you require all or some of the money, you can just make easy withdrawals..

However, if you are like some who prefer to have less loans out there.. Then sure, pay it into the loan.. Weigh both and go with that you feel most comfortable with. I too prefer to be as debt free as possible.

Not to worry.. Can apply anytime, as long as good rates and funds are available... So if your finances are good to begin today.. Sure go ahead. There's still 4 months left in the year. I prefer to have some decent amount stashed first before taking up such. Dedicated and enough to cover a couple months repayments down the road.. Just in case. My reasons are, it's counter-productive to take up the loan, only to terminate it for personal or financial reasons too soon. That'd be a loss. Aim to pay up without withdrawing the dividends for at least 3 - 5 years.. Then reevaluate if it's wise to terminate and reapply again by then. If you plan on doing the rinse and repeat method? Then avoid taking any insurance as that just increases amount you need to pay. But if plan to take and pay for the full 30 years? Doesn't hurt to have some insurance.. Cuz who knows the future.. My 2 sen.

This post has been edited by voncrane: Aug 25 2018, 09:11 PM

It depends on the bank, I cannot advice without looking at your offer letter in full. You can share it if you want, 5 minutes into reading it and I can let you know. Plus banks have different terms even within the same banks, like mortgages for MBB of which there are 3 mortgage products just from the same bank

Be careful, not all banks have flexi-facility in their loan accounts. If your financing has no flexi-facility, the money that you put into your account would be put into the loan and used to repay the remaining balance of the tail-end of your tenure, not front-loaded and used to reduce the principal. All I am saying is that without reading the LO in full, it would be dangerous to blindly give advice on this. For mortgages, Al Rajhi is known to do this - that is to put the "advanced payment" into the tail-end of the financing tenure.

1. I assume that you do not have any ASB-financing right now. If so, you can do so today or at anytime in the future, as it is though, the current best rate is 4.85% p.a as shown above. If you are worried about the dividends, you will still get the dividends for September to December.

2. For those who are worried about the current financing taking too long to be redeemed by their current bank, I can say for sure that I managed to get my client to completely close his MBB ASB-Financing account in 10 days since making the application, as shown in the screen shot below. He applied for the cancellation at a branch on the 7th, received a call about the receipt of request for cancellation on the 9th, and on the 17th his ASNB account reported the units having being fully sold back to ASNB.

3. In this case, if you were to apply for the cancellation, the units may be fully sold back in the 5th of September. In about another 10 days, the new units would be bought from a the new bank. You would lose 1 month's worth of dividend, which is for September, and still earn the dividends for January-August (8 months) and October-December (3 months), for a total of 11/12 months of the year. Your dividend received in January next year will reflect that.

4. I must claim though that the situation above is on best-effort basis, and I cannot guarantee that everything will happen smoothly, but I always try my level best for my clients

There are so many Hafizs' in the world, so I can share this without any censorship.


This post has been edited by wild_card_my: Aug 25 2018, 09:31 PM

Thanks for the answer to my previous question. I really appreciate it!
So asw2020 only declared 6 sen dividend. Now im worried ASB would declare 6.5 or below dividend this year...

I too have my concerns and would definitely not take out any loans to invest in ASW. Using personal cash only and should be fine. Since I'm more invested in both ASB & ASB2, it's only natural that I be hopeful that the funds do better than the previous year. Will be good but not expecting any great returns. This of course is my personal analysis and take of the overall situation, after factoring in other relevant factors that will play a part. Others feel free to disagree. Well, we'll know for sure in 5 - 8 months..

ASB/ASB2 performances can be unpredictable, because the fund does not disclose the outstanding shares held by the public. So we don't really know its actual NAV per unit. You could be paying RM1 per unit, but the actual NAV per unit could be anything. In short, we know the funds total NAV, but without knowing the number of outstanding shares, there is no way to calculate the NAV per unit

As we know with unit trust funds (ASB is a unit trust fund, but a fixed-priced variety), any distributions given would be taken out from the NAV itself, i.e even if you do receive the distributions, the NAV per unit would take a hit, and your nominal holding in the fund would not change; it is as if you took money from your right pocket and put in your left pocket, the amount of money you have is still the same.

With ASB, the dividend declared can be anything that does not correlate with the actual performance of the funds. Notice that during profitable years ASB declares about the same positive dividends as during the less profitable years, unlike equity unit trust funds (of which ASB is also heavily invested in equity) which has positive and negative returns throughout their lifetime (although most have positive annualized returns if we go back at least 10-years back)

This is because ASB was created with Malays/Bumi (but more to Malay Muslims) in mind that is:

1. They do not like the daily changes of unit trust NAV per unit prices. If they put in RM10,000 today, the capital has to retain its value in 1, 5, or even 10 years. They do not like losing the capital. Which also explains why there is no "sales charge on ASB unlike unit trust funds that charge about 5.5% as a sales charge"

2. They do not like getting negative returns

Due to the nature of these 2 groups, ASB was designed where during profitable years, some of the returns are kept in reserve, and during losing years, the reserves are used to maintain a somewhat consistent levels of dividend.

To verify this, check out the companies that ASB is invested in (Malaysian blue chips), and compare its performance to the other unit trust funds out there. ASB: consistent, low-positive returns; Unit Trust: inconsistent, a mix of positive and negative returns (based on the NAV/unit) through out the years.

This post has been edited by wild_card_my: Aug 29 2018, 11:36 AM

I'm not a master in this, but may I know where to check which investment ASB is invested in? Really interested to know.