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 ASB loan, worth to get it???

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voncrane
post Mar 5 2017, 02:17 PM

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QUOTE(haziqnet @ Mar 5 2017, 08:58 AM)
Compounding method
-------------------------

200k loan
terminate after 3 years

Your estimate profit

compounding dividend = 43,295
Principal = 9,313
Total = 52,608
Nett profit
52,608 - (1073 x 36) = 13,980 @ 39.19%

*
I've spent some time going through the thread and the earlier one. While I understand the power of compounding interest over decades, I'm still quite noob on this, so correct me if the following calculation is wrong.

How is taking a loan and gaining 13,980 (above) in 3 years > than simply paying/saving the same 1073 x 36 = 38,628 (dividends not included)? Doesn't this mean that one essentially "lost" at least RM24,648 (38,628 - 13980) to the bank? The maths simply does not compute. Be glad to know if I'm missing something here.

This post has been edited by voncrane: Mar 5 2017, 02:24 PM
voncrane
post Mar 5 2017, 02:41 PM

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QUOTE(mohamadf @ Mar 5 2017, 02:32 PM)
Hi voncrane,

13980 is the nett profit. already minus the capital from own money. it is free money generate from the capital.

From what i understand about LASB is we have advantage of the principal return to us after terminate and the dividend of the loan amount. Rather than get the dividend of our saving which is significantly lower.
*
Hmm.. I think I see it now... I omitted a previous factor... It's clearer now.
voncrane
post Mar 5 2017, 06:00 PM

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QUOTE(mohamadf @ Mar 5 2017, 02:32 PM)
Hi voncrane,

13980 is the nett profit. already minus the capital from own money. it is free money generate from the capital.

From what i understand about LASB is we have advantage of the principal return to us after terminate and the dividend of the loan amount. Rather than get the dividend of our saving which is significantly lower.
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QUOTE(haziqnet @ Mar 5 2017, 04:46 PM)
Thnks bro..yes correct...we are not getting profit just from the dividend but also the principal which is include in our installments and will be refund to us after terminate the asb...

We also earn profit from the ASB bonus which calculate separately.
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QUOTE(buggie @ Mar 5 2017, 05:06 PM)
Pretty much. If u use a compounding calculator, you'll see that at the end of year 10, you'd have a balance of 393k. At the end of 20th year will be 773k. At the end of 30th year will have 1.5M.

And those figures belum take into account terminate reapply kickback from amortised values yet.
*
So theoretically & assuming both loan & earnings interest figures remain stable. Using compound interest and loan calculators, I was able to whip up the following calculations. Kindly advise if accurate. Apologies, I'm just meticulous like that about finances... smile.gif
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


This post has been edited by voncrane: Mar 5 2017, 07:25 PM
voncrane
post Mar 5 2017, 11:11 PM

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QUOTE(buggie @ Mar 5 2017, 07:26 PM)
Option A is right. So you put it 38,630 and get back 15,692. That's almost more than 40% ROI
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Glad to know that the calculations are on track.. I did a preliminary search of this thread and couldn't get a direct answer. When terminating the loan, we only have to pay back the remaining principal and no added interest/penalties right? Naturally, I'll go thru the official T & C during sign up.. But asking to reconfirm.
voncrane
post Mar 5 2017, 11:42 PM

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QUOTE(buggie @ Mar 5 2017, 11:27 PM)
Yeah, technically.

But when you terminate, usually no need to fork out any funds to pay off the principal as the bank would just sell off the sijil.

So just go to the bank and request to terminate. And..... that's it! your ASB account get deducted 200k, you keep the dividend you've earned so far and the bank pays you back the principal you already paid (ammortised)
*
Thanks..
voncrane
post Mar 9 2017, 02:39 PM

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Given the recent decline in interests + bonus announced each year. Did some more calculations on how interest and bonus is calculated to arrive at the real interest to be applied on amount invested and have decided to save using own money instead of the loan. Starting with say RM50K and consistently paying per month for say 10 years (same as paying a max 200K loan anyway....willpower present) yields more cash at hand in the end than using the loan. Yes, some arguments can be made that one could use that startup cash elsewhere, but the benefits of using one's cash at this level outweighs that of being tied to a bank loan and subject to additional fees, interest fluctuations and what else in the future.
voncrane
post Mar 9 2017, 03:02 PM

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QUOTE(haziqnet @ Mar 9 2017, 02:42 PM)
Dun just believe what u read in blog or FB especially if the person are not pro in that field...they can tell as much as they want but most of it are misleading explanation and without proper calculation.

They are just wannabe pro investment but actually know nothing. When i see such person in the real world when i ask to debate face to face they will avoid it like a coward.

you can call them a keyboard warrior but very stupid one...

as long as you do your asb financing / loan with the right method and what are you capable of wont be a problem...

so just sit back and relax.  smile.gif
*
Would you like a proper calculation that saving with one's money DOES pay off than taking the loan? smile.gif

This post has been edited by voncrane: Mar 9 2017, 03:02 PM
voncrane
post Mar 9 2017, 05:09 PM

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QUOTE(adamhzm90 @ Mar 9 2017, 03:05 PM)
please share with all of us
*
See below;

QUOTE(haziqnet @ Mar 9 2017, 03:30 PM)
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «
Unfortunately, when it comes to my finances, I tend to be analytical and deal in real world stats.. Money & family tend not to play well most times, so family or otherwise proxies are out of the question, cuz moneyflies.gif moneyflies.gif .Compounding interest was calculated yearly and difference will only increase if calculated monthly. See brief calculations below;

Loan

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «



Own Cash
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


Edit: Mind explaining or pointing me to a post about being able to personally get 750K ASB/ASB2 loan? My understanding is it's 200K.

This post has been edited by voncrane: Mar 9 2017, 05:13 PM
voncrane
post Mar 9 2017, 06:18 PM

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QUOTE(haziqnet @ Mar 9 2017, 05:58 PM)
I will use my simple calculation so look if its the same or not

200k asb loan
Monthly 1074
Terminate after 10 years

Compounding dividend = 193,430 (asb account)
Principal SV = 200,000-162,648 = 37,316 (return into bank account)
Total
(193,430 + 37,316) = 230,746 (this is the total you will get)

Nett profit
-----------------
230,746 - (1074x120month) = 101,866 @ 79.03%

So your calculation for 200k and terminate after 10 years is correct
With the base amount yes you will get more than what asb financing can give. But the problem is you not optimize the OPM and you need to have that base amount first where most normal people dont have.
For that asb loan 750k first 400k (asb1+2) you can apply by your own but for another 350k you need to use proxy. If u dun believe family members than u can use your wife as proxy if u already married.

I will not explain further as you are too analytical person and you will always reason with more question even though you actually already understand.

Person who are afraid to risk their money are not suitable for investment. I will advise you just put your money into asb saving. Its more suitable with you.

What you are trying to prove will give misleading to another people who understand the investment risk and make them afraid to do so although they dont need to.

As long as given asb dividend is relevant higher than the bank interest its still profitable and there is no need for you to afraid of.
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It's money.. It either grows (ideally) or reduces. I'm no pro, but no noob either to the investment world. There's a difference between not willing to take risks and being cautious of said risks and or simply believing another's calculations. Which is why i do mine, have it verified, make an educated decision and jump in. All done pretty quickly. Work hard for me $$.

I'm not out to prove anything or think my posts are misleading, as you've attested to the fact that the numbers are sound. I'm just posting to let others who may be in the same boat as I, to know that there are other favorable options to simply taking a loan and working for the bank. Make informed decisions as well. Thanks for the assist.
voncrane
post Mar 9 2017, 06:25 PM

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QUOTE(haziqnet @ Mar 9 2017, 05:58 PM)
With the base amount yes you will get more than what asb financing can give. But the problem is you not optimize the OPM and you need to have that base amount first where most normal people dont have. You also need to take note that asb dividend will count base on the lowest amount every month. This will be the cause your potential return less than what you calculated.

Wrong... Please recheck my original post and redo your calculations. I pointed out the the projected returns were calculated based on yearly compounding. If done monthly, taking the lowest amount into account, the final amount will be higher. You should know this.

As long as given asb dividend is higher than the bank interest its still profitable and there is no need for you to afraid of.[/b]

No need to be afraid? Yes. Can one do better & not work for the bank? YES!!.. If you were me, which would you do? It's rhetorical.
FYI: My calculations are based on ASB 2.. To pull out funds and restart with full loan or Leave some funds in and continue... Should have made that clear from the start.

This post has been edited by voncrane: Mar 9 2017, 06:32 PM
voncrane
post Mar 9 2017, 07:05 PM

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QUOTE(haziqnet @ Mar 9 2017, 06:43 PM)
Sorry bro if my statement is a bit harsh. Its not my intention to do so. Actually your calculation is no misleading and its correct. But when you question too much that will bring to misleading. Some people wont understand like u and me...some will think asb financing is too risky which are not.

Im here is to help other people with the same objective. Asb financing is one of it. If u r not too analytical asb financing is the best tool and can help you to reach your goal in short of time by optimize OPM.

Some people only need to have money to buy their first house, some may want to married and so on. With asb financing they will need to do force saving because its loan by the bank. But with asb saving they might use the money mostly rather than save it.

I already help few members in lowyat with their asb financing. Im giving them free consultation as long as im live. No problem so far and they are happy to do it.

Therefore i hope we will end this here. If u really like me to help you with the calculation im glad to check it for you. Just pm me.

Please forgive me bro voncrane. 🙏🙏🙏
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No offense taken at all.. Totally understand and would like to apologize for coming on a bit strong..🙏.. You do good work... That's why I also leave the numbers with spoilers.. For forced savings and no base amount to kick-start, definitely best to go with the loan method.
voncrane
post Mar 9 2017, 11:45 PM

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QUOTE(buggie @ Mar 9 2017, 09:29 PM)
Let me break it down... and you'll see why loan is still better...

So to summarize
Own Savings: "Total Amount Invested: B.A + (RM1074 * (12*10)) = RM178,880"
Loan : Total Paid (to bank): RM128,880

To make things fair... if i had 50k to my name from the beginning...adding that 50k to RM230,746 (total in ASB after loan 10 years). You'd end up with RM 280,746.00. That's 3k less than RM283,105.85 (save on my own with the 50k as base amount). So yeah, savings here make more money.

But! Since I can't put that 50k in ASB because of the full 200k sijil, I'd have to put that 50k elsewhere, say ASB2. I'm not gonna put that 50k under my pillow right? You put that 50k to work for you by putting it into ASB. So, that 50k works for me in ASB2 @ 6% Compound that by 10 years, I'll have RM 89,542.38

So....

RM230,746 + RM89,542 = 320,288.

At the end of 10 years.... I'd make 320,288 - 283,105 = 37,183 more

In both instances, we expend the same amount of capital (monthly + cash in hand). All things being equal, utilising the loan, i get 37k more... go figure.

That's why, even if i have 200k cash in ASB, I'd take it out and still get the loan.

So far, I haven't read any pro-own savings arguments that holds up. This included. No offense intended.

And... consider the fact that not everybody have 50k in cash. Most will start from scratch. So take that 50k base out of the equation and you'll still find loan is better. Either way.
*
Numbers don't lie.. smile.gif

QUOTE(buggie @ Mar 9 2017, 09:48 PM)
What I did was take out the 200k from ASB2 and put into ASD earning 6%++. Then apply full 200k loan for ASB2.

So essentially, I pay 5% interest on 200k but earning 12%++ (ASB@+ASD) Or 6%-7% on 400k (200kASB@ & 200kASD). whichever way you look at it.
*
And if one does not have the spare 200K from ASB2? Wouldn't be wise taking out 2 loans concurrently. No?

Edit: On second thought... No use flogging a dead horse, as ASB(max) + ASB2(max then loan/some own cash) + ASD(200K from ASB2) works. Money maximized all round.

This post has been edited by voncrane: Mar 9 2017, 11:53 PM
voncrane
post Mar 10 2017, 10:24 AM

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QUOTE(buggie @ Mar 10 2017, 12:31 AM)
If you have 0 in ASB2 then just take a loan and start fresh. Still worth it. 2 loans concurrently? why not if you can afford it. Correct.

I'm on 560k in ASB2 (400k loan - no proxy. they used to allow it) + 220k in ASB2 (200k loan) + 200k in ASD earning interest on 980k (for now-it's still compounding!)

And all this resulting from the first 200k loan I took 16 years ago with 0 in my ASB at the time. Not a single penny injected other than the dividends earned and having the capacity to pay the loans.
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It's alright.. Have more than 0 in ASB2. This isn't the only investment and I believe if one's more comfortable without the loan, and still get similar/more at the end.. It's all good. I've been refraining from disclosing too much about personal finances. Rest assured, not broke smile.gif .

FYI.. History of ASB dividend and bonus.
1990: 8.00 + 6.00
1996: 10.25 + 3.00 (Highest ever)
2016: 6.75 + 0.50

On average, free falling over the years. Best case scenario would see it increase or remain as is. Still a good investment when one has maximized others. In our current economy and projection? Unlikely... Bank rates on the other hand.. sweat.gif.. Starting back in 1990 isn't the same as 2017... But really, thanks for your insight.. icon_rolleyes.gif

QUOTE(haziqnet @ Mar 10 2017, 09:46 AM)
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «
Thanks for the added clarifications... notworthy.gif

This post has been edited by voncrane: Mar 10 2017, 10:28 AM
voncrane
post Mar 10 2017, 05:55 PM

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QUOTE(buggie @ Mar 10 2017, 03:43 PM)
wow... even after showing you that your calculation was misguided and that you actually you make 37k more with the loan you still think you're getting similar/more at the end without the loan?  hmm.gif more power to you bro....

Of course there are other investments... but we're in the ASB loan thread discussing the merits/pitfalls of specifically this loan.
All I can say is, go read a few posts back on the calculation of Saving Vs Loans... then tell me with a straight face if this statement still holds true.... just a few posts up only... no need to scroll so much.
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QUOTE
To make things fair... if i had 50k to my name from the beginning...adding that 50k to RM230,746 (total in ASB after loan 10 years). You'd end up with RM 280,746.00. That's 3k less than RM283,105.85 (save on my own with the 50k as base amount). So yeah, savings here make more money.

That's a quote from your earlier post.. It's really quite simple and if you can't wrap your head around such a simple concept.. It's really not worth going back and forth.. I didn't want to get this far.. So here;
*Banks NEVER give free money.. Fact!
*When anyone takes a bank loan, one signs a contract and owes the bank and they fully expect you to pay up regardless of the outcome of the investment one channeled the funds in.. Fact!
*Taking a loan with an interest rate of 4.8% (lowest, most pay 5.1%), only to earn a hypothetical 7%.. For the sake of simplicity, a gain of 2%, is ill-advised. When one has some base amount to start with and gains the full 7% or whatever, still higher than 2.x%... Fact!
*Neither the banks or ASNB can guarantee that dividends will go lower or increase above the already low 6.75% (lowest in its history). Fact!
*Dividends and bonuses have been free falling over the years.. Fact!
*Calculations even with a low base amount of 30K and returns were still higher after 10 years..Fact!
*The above does not matter even if you terminate and reapply every three years. Using a higher base amount and saving diligently will still net you significantly higher in 10 years and more.. Fact!
*This is supposed to be passive income and I'd rather my money work passively for me, than the bank... IMO.

You can tell yourself whatever makes you sleep better at night, still does not change the facts. Going to end here... The numbers and calculating tools are out there. To each his own.


QUOTE(haziqnet @ Mar 10 2017, 04:23 PM)
bro buggie let me help you with comparison calculation

ASB Saving
Monthly RM1100
Assume dividen rate at 7%

After 3 years will get a total of 44,029.11

Nett profit
------------
44,029.11 - (1100 x 36) = 4,429.11 @ 11.18%

ASB loan 200,000
Monthly RM1100
Tenure 30 years
Assume dividen rate at 7%

After 3 years terminate

Compounding dividend = 45,008.60
Principal surrender value = 9001.00
Total = 54,009.60

Nett profit
------------
54,009.60 - (1100 x 36) = 14,409.60 @ 36.38%

Which one give more return with the same amount of investment monthly?
*
I'm out and can't fact check the numbers.. So will assume the numbers are correct.. Perhaps later you could do the same for own savings for a period of 10 years and with base amounts of 50K or 100K. You really do not have to. I've said this before and saying it again.. If one doesn't have spare cash, sure go ahead and invest using the loan, better than nothing..

This post has been edited by voncrane: Mar 10 2017, 05:57 PM
voncrane
post Mar 13 2017, 10:59 PM

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QUOTE(buggie @ Mar 13 2017, 10:20 PM)
Seriously guys... You gotta get that notion that all loans are bad. With quotes like "why let the bank make my money?" "bank saja yg untung". "hutang sampai mati".

The key word here is OPM... "other people's money" for the less savvy. Specifically, the 'other people' meant here is the bank. The banks money. We are using the banks money to make money.

It's not a new concept or strategy. It's nothing new... Big companies do it. If they have 100k in cash, they are not going to buy just 1 lorry. They will take hire purchase  and use the 100k to put a down payment for 10 lorries. So, they use banks money to buy the 10 lorries worth 1 million. With just 100k. That 10 lorries then make 10 times or more the money 1 lorry can make...

And there's no risk. It's been said many many times. If things get too hot to handle, like dividends goes below interest rates for instance... Then just terminate. You get your principal back and just walk away. Zero cost, zero risk. Yes the bank earn your interest, but don't forget, if you're 6 months in before you terminate, you still get that pro rated dividend at the end of the year.

And yes... ASB is not the only investment vehicle... Can earn more elsewhere like property... Can earn 500% increase in capital.. Yada yada yada. Open business can earn more money... Yada yada yada.... Firstly, this is ASB loan thread... So we discuss asb loans for those wanting more info on this. Some are looking for low risk investment. Some cannot get loan for property, some don't have business acumen, some already have 3 properties and looking to diversify... The point is... Dun la go and compare ASB loan with other forms of investment. Different people have different risk appetites and goals at different stages in their lives.

Then there those that waltz in here and make  passing statements this one better la, that wan better... This one no good, that one no good... Backup your statements with figures and facts la dudes.... Not to say cannot discuss... Caaan... But show how you arrive at your conclusion la. Then ada pulak some hero that give calculation to prove his/her statement. That's awesome... But when there is a counter argument equally with figures to back up also dowan to mengaku Choose to ignore and name subjective facts to backup like historical analysis, etc. This kind of people is a breed of their own.

Bro haziq has spent a lot of time explaining and calculating figures to show in a systematic way how this works and how you can make money. Some have retirement in mind, some want to purchass car in cash or settle HP as soon as possible, some want to raise cash to have their dream wedding, etc. Whatever it is we don't judge. But at least show him the courtesy and respect to have a meaningful discussion.
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Bla bla bla bruh... Facts and numbers do not lie... Bank interests high.. ASB dividends getting lower and lower.. 1990 ≠ 2017.. 10 lorries make less money than bank loans.. lose money.. in the end still have to pay bank back.. signed contract.. bla bla.. wrong analogy... Numbers don't lie.. no matter how you spin it.. The rich get richer.. Take a chill pill.
//End rant.

This post has been edited by voncrane: Mar 13 2017, 11:02 PM
voncrane
post Mar 13 2017, 11:21 PM

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QUOTE(masami @ Mar 13 2017, 11:18 PM)
Wow..seriously..you keep repeating this nonsense. Infact buggie and haziq have been putting numbers and fact. You on the other didnt produce any. And yet claimed fact n numbers dont lie..why not u counter the calculation one by one to make ur case. Put it nicely so that everybody will see.
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I already did.. Buggie and Hazia also acknowledged em .. Spend some time and check my earlier posts.. Numbers speak for themselves.. Essays unnecessary.

This post has been edited by voncrane: Mar 13 2017, 11:21 PM
voncrane
post Mar 14 2017, 12:40 AM

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QUOTE(timo1003 @ Mar 13 2017, 11:30 PM)
This. I've been a silent observer of this thread and just felt the need this time to comment on this.

Perhaps someone may want to put a caveat somewhere that ASB Loan works ONLY IF you take the longest/longer tenure and/or without any insurance (if possible) and/or without touching the dividend, etc. Otherwise, you'd have all sorts of theories. And there's no point explaining to someone who's "cup is full", unless they choose to first "empty their cup".

Also to me it's a simple thing. At the end of the 'experiment', I'll have either RM44,029.11 (own saving) vs RM54,009.60 (LASB) cash in hand. I think i know which is more. Without any other 'confusing' calculations.  I stand to be corrected.
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See calculation below...

QUOTE(buggie @ Mar 13 2017, 11:33 PM)
You must be living in your own little voncrane world... Lol. You post nonsense figures and say we acknowledged them? We took your figures, and stuck it up your arse and you still can:t feel it. You must be some loose goose bruh... Like I said... A special kind of breed.
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Bla bla bla.. once again.. Here, some real calculations based on overflowing ASB and sem-full ASB2 alone.. Other similar and dissimilar investments not withstanding.... Less talk.. more numbers. See below..

QUOTE(Xnet @ Mar 13 2017, 11:36 PM)
The delusional kind - simpan bawah bantal saja la and use cracked apps  whistling.gif
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Delusional? Speak for yourself bruh... You sell IPTV services and I can understand your bread is threatened and so the need to lash out. But hey, its unhealthy to simply do so.... I pay for Hypptv, Hulu Plus, Netflix, iFlix and a few other choice IPTV services I dare not mention. Been paying for years... If you know Netflix, I used to be considered on a grandfather plan.. Long before they moved into Asia.. Go figure.. I tested your service and found it severely lacking and hence divert MY funds elsewhere. So cuz the forum refuses to allow you to promote your sales.. Go take it up with the LowYat Mods...


Loan
Amount: RM200,000
Interest: 5%
Term: 30 Years
Monthly Payment: RM1,074

Terminate after 10 years.
Total Paid (to bank): RM128,880
Total Interest Paid(to bank): RM91,520
Total Principal Paid(to bank): RM37,316
Accrued Interest (Flat @ 7% per year): RM193,430
Final amount: RM401,932.28
Principal Left (to pay bank): RM162,684

Therefore: 401,932.28 - 162,684 = RM239,248.28

FYI: The total amount paid to the bank.. Does not take into account any additional fees, insurance, BLR fluctuations, etc.. aka, could be lesser or whateva..


Own Cash
Terminate after 10 years.

Base Amount: RM30,000
Total Amount Invested: B.A + (RM1074 * (12*10)) = RM158,880.00
Accrued Interest (Flat @ 7% per year): RM88,387.30
Final amount: RM247,267.30

Base Amount: RM30,000
Total Amount Invested: B.A + (RM1100 * (12*10)) = RM162,000
Accrued Interest (Flat @ 7% per year): RM89,793.76
Final amount: RM251,793.76

Base Amount: RM50,000
Total Amount Invested: B.A + (RM1074 * (12*10)) = RM178,880
Accrued Interest (Flat @ 7% per year): 108,580.53
Final amount: RM287,460.53

Base Amount: RM50,000
Total Amount Invested: B.A + (RM1100 * (12*10)) = RM182,000
Accrued Interest (Flat @ 7% per year): RM109,986.98
Final amount: RM291,986.98


291,986.98 - RM239,248.28= 52,738.70



As to others... These are MY calculations and made to my specs... Some people love to live on borrowed money.. others don't and love freedom while making more.. To each his own.. I sleep amazingly well @ night..

This post has been edited by voncrane: Mar 14 2017, 12:46 AM
voncrane
post Mar 14 2017, 12:50 AM

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QUOTE(Xnet @ Mar 14 2017, 12:47 AM)
Haha threatened? Stay delusional it's fun for us all.
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voncrane
post Mar 14 2017, 01:41 AM

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QUOTE(timo1003 @ Mar 14 2017, 01:28 AM)
I stopped 'thinking' when i saw these. The fact that the you have a base amount for savings but not for loans. Where's the level playing field? (or are you going to say there's a cap of rm200k?)
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The world isn't fair.. Some have millions, billions, others less.. I don't recall mentioning it was a level playing field..It wouldn't be.. In one of my earlier posts.. I wrote that if one has to start from scratch and needs to "force-save", by all means take the loan as it's a strong motivator. IF and only IF one has the willpower AND funds to keep going solo, then consider other alternatives. Even then, still up to said person to decide. Never said taking the ASB loans are bad and should not be taken at all. I recommended and even apologized to haziqnet for coming on strong. He did the same.. It was a shut case.. Then snide remarks came in... The rest is history.. As is now.
voncrane
post Mar 14 2017, 01:46 AM

Noir et fier!
*******
Senior Member
7,118 posts

Joined: Oct 2011
From: Wakanda


QUOTE(buggie @ Mar 14 2017, 01:41 AM)
Adoi kawan... Again with the base amount ka? I already dispel your calculation showing with the same parameters in your situation I'd make 37k more with the loan. Tak paham bahasa ke? Or you want me to explain in Malay so you can comprehend better?

You go and reproduce your calculation buat apa? Basically already like old newspaper can throw away... tak boleh pakai.

By posting this, shows that you lack maturity and made me realize that I can't converse with you as an equal. Because you're beneath me. I had my suspicions earlier but this confirms it. What a waste of my time.

Go back to your La la Land and only come back when you grow up and stop acting like a 5 year old.
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No worries, my english vocabulary is sound. Observe; By not acknowledging the numbers and posting this, shows that you lack maturity and made me realize that I can't converse with you as an equal. Because you're beneath me. I had my suspicions earlier but this confirms it. What a waste of my time.

Go back to your la la Land and only come back when you grow up and stop acting like a 5 year old.

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