Well its just people's opinion, my uncle taught CLP and also taught some UoL students. He's LLM from cambridge

thank you...my mistake

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Added on April 14, 2008, 1:50 pmI'm sure they do recognise external degree. However you might want to read Academic Stage handbook to double check

This post has been edited by nikyas: Apr 14 2008, 01:50 PM

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For those who are interested in this position, you can PM me for further details.

DO NOT SEND ME YOUR RESUME!!

This news can also be found at the following link!

http://forum.lowyat.net/topic/676922

This post has been edited by aurora97: Apr 18 2008, 07:01 PM

I got a few questions .

1)I heard that it is better to do UOL External LLB rather than a 2+1 twinning programme or uk transfer degree , how true is that statement ?

2) Is there any difference of a UK law grad and UOL External Law grad? I mean i term of skills & employment opportunities ?

Again , aurora , it is a great thread . It is sad that now only i see this thread . I am now waiting for my A-lvl result . The result will only release on August . After that , i'll most probably read law in KDU and HELP(for UK Transfer or Twinning) . I am now taking UOL External LLB into my consideration too since i heard that it is just the same with a uk degree . Dilemma is KIllng me man .

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Added on June 12, 2008, 9:56 pmYour uncle is a lecturer . Cool!
Is he still lecture now ?

This post has been edited by jhong: Jun 12 2008, 09:56 PM

1. There are a number of answers which I can offer.
a. Duh. The available twinning Unis in Malaysia are (non-exhaustive) University of West England, University of Hertfordshire, Northumbria University, University of Reading, University of Cardiff and Leeds University. Only Leeds is the one with some quality (& they are strict with entry). Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the rest are farcical but definitely not up to the UOL external standard, which is already average in UK (compared with the Internal London Colleges - LSE, UCL, King's... and obviously Oxbridge - also Warwick and Bristol and so on.)

- Why do I say that UOL external is better? : Unseen written exams with a lil' of dissertation/ course work. An unseen written exam is still the no.1 way to test the mettle of a student, in the ways they think and deal with the questions. Coursework? Pay me 100 bucks and I'll do it for you. Chip in another 50 and I'll make sure it's First Class material. You get what I mean. A lot of the above Unis has subjects which are fully evaluated by coursework alone. Well I have heard some places above have OPEN exams which means that you can go in with your notes and textbooks... (Mind you, this is from their own students).

b. Well you have to balance your options for external UOL or for twinning:
For UOL:
- I have stated in "a".
- Its cheaper.
- In the real world, your academic qualification is only a stepping stone to the interview. Your working capability and ethics (and possibility "apple polishing skills") will bring you forward. And these are not things which can be illustrated solely by your academic prowess. So it does not matter where you come from. Choose the one which is cheaper. (Of course I will still choose a Cambridge grad over a local grad - not because the local grad sux or whatever, but because the standard of education received, or at least, a normal potential employer might perceive).

For twinning: You get to chill out of our country. Exposure. Even if you get a Third Class Honours Degree or lower, you can still do the CLP and practice law. So its probably safer if you are into the legal practice life which, as someone had stated above, isn't all that glamorous and can be in fact, torturous.
- Also, the majority of UOL external students are actually rather dumb themselves (hence the low First Classes and Second Uppers) - they know nuts about research... so unless you are a dedicated law student who's willing to do research, this degree is one which you can complete without reading a single case judgment, just by utilizing your wits, understanding and academic preparation. This is bad for practice. A law student that does not read law journals and cases?
- Nevertheless, they have recently added mandatory requirements to complete coursework/dissertations and this would be a starting point to cure the "I know nuts about research" disease.

2. Difference in skills?
- Yes and no. Yes if you look into the majority, UOL students with 2:1s and above will usually whip twinning U students with 2:1s and above. No, because that is not a good way to measure as a substantial number of twinning U grads are incapable of surviving the external UOL onslaught (<50% passes for first and second year exams - every year, all over the world) and has taken the internal route as an alternative.
- ALso, no because it is individual ability which is taken into account. Generalization does not really exist in this area. I have seen external students which are smart and dumb. I have also seen twinning U grads which are dumb and smart.
- So skills-wise is really subjective but if I have to evaluate in a very general way, good UOL external students have a better understanding of the law and the controversies surrounding it while twinning U grads SHOULD have a better grasp of research skills as they have mandatory courseworks (although I do not know how many of them pay/plead/ beg for others to complete it for them - I know I was offered before).
- Employment opportunities? Erm, does not really matter. If you are good, you are good. If you suck, then you suck. Anyway, coming from the above Unis (maybe cept for Leeds) ain't really that cool (Oxbridge, UCL, LSE - those are cool). As an external, there are some prejudices but then again, there are also prejudices against twinning U grads.

So that's my opinion. Hopefully it will be helpful. And it is my opinion. If it does not accord to the opinion of others, well you are entitled to have your own opinions. You can highlight them to me. Don't come hammering me online. Because online, I can't clobber you.

And to aurora, this is a nice thread.

i just received my LLB final result and it is 3rd class.. i lack tat 2 mark to get a 2nd lower. which makes me disqualified all togother to take CLP.. i am fresh graduate law student... . and now i wonder wat else i can do with this result in order to find a job in a legal fields. .can i be a legal advisor stil? can anywan advise me on this, please?

all this while, they been telling me the firms give below 1k...

hmm, not sure...

seldom heard that they would actually pay 1.5k for those doing chambering...

You might still be able to work as an in-house lawyer for a company. Look at the recruitment ads and see what qualifications they need.

Alternatively, work as a paralegal. Example: look for IP firms who want and willing to train you as a trade mark paralegal.

My batch UoL external do not have any coursework though. 100% academic exam. Sit there write the four essays. Four pages each, 3 hours. RM 45k.
Risk or not? HAHA... it is a gamble. I've just won the intermediate stage. Now part 1. Wish me luck.

In the end is all about the CLP and is not worth the risk or I would I be lucky enough? HAHA.. I hope by the time I finished my degree the CLP will be abolised completely.. hehe.. possible? Actually I've already given up on the career as a lawyer due to the CLP issue. All I wanted now is to obtain the degree and go find whatever work I can. Malaysia... haihh.....

Basicaly is all about race and money, what are the odds of a chinese entering Uni that will be exempted from CLP?
what are the odds of people who make it through CLP? what it takes to go overseas for a recognized law degree?
No money and being a chinese it is best go sell chu cheong fun like at ATC opposite the chu cheong fun uncle makes more than a LLB fresh graduate.. hahaah... he drives a toyota camry leh...

This post has been edited by vicebet: Oct 4 2008, 02:54 AM

if u work hard enuff, why so worry about the quota thing? if u are so worry about that, u already failed clp before even taking it...

As far as I'm not wrong, West Malaysians are not allowed to admit into East Malaysian Bars and vice versa.

Have there changed this rule?

Is there any possible way where West Malaysian be admitted into Sarawak Bar and vice versa? Marriage perhaps?

Off topic: Dying for advice!

I've been offered pupillage in both Skrine and Zaid Ibrahim & Co but am absolutely stuck on which to choose.

I need to make a decision by the end of the day tomorrow (Wednesday).

I've spoken to senior lawyers, clients, etcetera but it's not been a very helpful process. I've gotten more business cards than I have answers. Haha. If anybody has been a pupil (or is a pupil!) in either of these firms, any feedback would be much appreciated.

Thanks so much - and awesome thread btw.

Actually 1K is a bait for newbies who r not so familiar with the industry and didnt do any research especially on payment of wages/salary/allowance depending.

Only medium firms offer around 1.5 -2K mostly in KL, i have friends gotten this salary range and quite a few since i know they wont accept anything lower.


My 2 cents, pick a firm with the highest possible retention rate. You dont want to be at the end of the 9 mths hanging around look for job so inconvenient (unless of course the environment is really bad). Thats wht my gf did, if ur grades are good. Try get into Lee Hishamuddin, Wong & Partners, Shok Lin n Bok, (btw forget abt RDL very low retention rate)?...

I have a friend in Zaid Ibrahim, he seems to be liking it there might want to give it a try there.

I've friends who's chambering in Shook Lin and they're all loving it

hey!
Anybody got latest 'market value' of a chambie up till LA of 5 years experience?
And, what will be the top[to be self-defined - high pay, good environment, good location, good potential] firms to work for?

Cheers

refer to the above table...
as to which law firm is better, that i cannot advice best u seek friends whom are already working in those firms

april 2008 ma...does not include the recent 'credit crisis'
prolly didn't change much then
*shrugs

thats more or less the benchmark for the legal profession believe me it wont go lower or change anytime soon, in fact they might increase it.

another suprising fact that you should know during "economic downturns" like this the legal profession maybe the only business implied to be "recession proof". Supposedlylah go ahead and try ur luck.

Hi!!

0 yrs exp
chambering student: RM1k-2.5k (mine 2.5k)

OR

JOin JaBATAN PeGUam NeGARA (Attorney General's Chambers of Malaysia)/ Chief Registrar's Office/ Government's Legal Officer: RM2920 (note: u can by-pass pupilage using this option)

1 yrs exp
junior legal assistant: RM2,300-3,500

yeah thats an option but u work like a cow for the Gov, u can by pass chambering but u'd have to work for 7 yrs (if i am not mistaken) with the AG be4 u get an exemption. With great powers come greater responsibilities too. *die*

Nobody likes working for the AG for reasons everyone else knows very well.

than again u get pension and all...

so depends on pro & con and what career r u lookin for?

* by the way u might want to explain the procedures if anyone is interested to apply for the above positions probably in the legal section education thread... its good to know.

This post has been edited by aurora97: Dec 31 2008, 10:20 AM