I am not sure if anyone has already started a thread on this but I will try my luck and see the responce.

This topic is up for general discussion for anyone aspiring to join Malaysia's Legal Profession, you may be a someone whose fresh out of Pre Uni i.e. A level, a law graduate, chambering student, someone dealing or related to legal matters or even a lawyer.

Come and share your experience!

I have experience in the area for those whom intend to pursue a Law Degree, A law graduate and someone who has a law degree but intends to go into another line of work other than in the legal profession.

Chambering opportunities, filing of documentation and where to chamber...

Attachment program/ students, when you should do it, why, tips and tricks...etc?

So come share!


Added:- There's one FAQ on Law Studies in EE http://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopi...post&p=14991215

You may read it up as well.

This post has been edited by stevanistelrooy: Mar 30 2008, 07:52 PM

Hmm this is indeed a very interesting topic which I am also quite curious about. Kudos to aurora97 for taking the initiative.

I am currently a bvc student and had done several attachments in law firms in kl. My advise would be to do an attachment for a month or so while in the 2nd or 3 year of your law degree solely to experience the daily routines of a lawyer and what do they exactly do, which isnt exactly glamorous.

Aurora, may I know what field are you currently in? Could you please tell the benefits and the downside/hardship suffered of being a law graduate in your current field? Thanks

This post has been edited by GrIM: Mar 31 2008, 12:00 AM

Currently i am in Investment banking as a legal officer, i dont have a license to practice but good for you since your doing your BVC.

Well i decided to initiate this topic since this is probably the most common question, which most legal professionals who are fresh grads would ask.

Yes i agree with you, for the 1st and 2nd year it is absolutely essential you gain your working experience while your in Malaysia as an attachment student. Try and get use to the working environment, like Grim say its not glamorous its dirty and ugly.

But it toughen me up to be able to stand on my own two feet in the fast pace line of Investment Banking, the ability to be a punching bag and to go on the offensive if necessary.

Need i mention horror stories during my attachment ?

Let me start by introducing my line of work again, I am actually an Investment Banking Officer under the compliance dept but under legal.

downside:
There are tonnes of paper work involve, follow ups, human emotions to control and also to ensure that company rules and on top of that exchange requirements are complied with. The last part is probably the hardest to initiate, non-compliance would result in an audit query which would get very ugly.

upside:
One of the most feared dept and of course hated as well, anyone in Compliance practically rain supreme if you know where your footing is. The unique structure of compliance dept is such that we are answerable to the BOD instead of the Executive Dir of the company. We r called the middle office, we can walk between two worlds i.e. Front and Back Office... there is a a principle called chinese wall that seperates this two depts, because of conflict of interests. So the boss basically gives you free hand and independence to conduct your affair, implement programs and fast track to a senior position in the company as well.

I am still doing my CLp at the moment to add on to my batch of academic thropies along the way, but its by no means easy.

It's not as glamarous as being a practicing lawyer but the extra 2 pennies i earn from this job... lol ... I'm quite content. hehe

hello there!
i am a student who has just finished her SPM and all. I am interested in law.
my question is, when we study law can we specialise in more than one field?
i am interested in international law, and a passion of mine is environmental law. But i would also like to study a bit of Company Law so that i can make some money hehe

So, how does it work? Also, what are the chances of working in law firm after i've graduated?

On a side note, i'm not sure if i'll be studying abroad or just local. There could be a possibilty of either one. Thanks.

I will atempt your first question.

When you pursue a Law Degree, generally speaking you will be require to study the core subjects "compulsory".

(FYI. note if your in UK the core subjects are different from Malaysian requirements but make sure you pick all the core subjects, so you can practice in both countries, if memory serve me well includes: TORT, criminal, constitutional law, contract, EU LAw (optional for UK & EU), land law and Trusts.

You can specialise in a certain field after your Degree, namely by pursuing a Master's course or go into legal practice.

2nd question.
Take up international law, company law and environmental law only if you have sufficient credits. FRom my Uni days certain subject carries 20 credits or 30 credits but you can only have a maximum of 120 credits per year. Choose your combinations well, some Universities maybe famous or have fantastic lecturers for a particular subject. Others might not, so you have take into account alot of factors before taking up a subject.

I recommend Company Law though, its not compulsory model. It's a very dry subject so be prepared with a few litres of Coffee, but very useful whilst you begin your career.

3rd Law firms..

Generally in KL/Selangor law firms are abundant and they will take you in easily (provided your already a law degree holder or in your 1st yr fdoing law - hard but still possible). The pay isn't fantastic since you have yet to get your license or law degree, so i suggest that you do an attachment as early as possible (even after ur spm).

Will con't in a rush to go home ... bb

thank you so much on ur reply. i appreciate it.

wow, i should try doing attachments with firms even from now? Hmm, i'll try my best. maybe when i start college or something, i can try finding a firm nearby so that i can get experience and know more

haha.. my advise is very simple only just that i believe u needed some re-assurance or 2nd opinion or something out of the box, cause i was where u were be4 but someone helped me so I am contributing back to.

if u have uncles or aunties who opens a law firm try joining them, start with what the clerks are doing. You may not notice it, but the work they do are very important although half the time clerks maybe typing blindly and do not know what they r doing.

Attachment is just to get the exposure and the fell of things, u can see daily how lawyers progress through out the day. Further it exposes you to work exeperience, sharpen your mind when u come out (graduated) to work and also to be able to adapt with the working environment.

i'm planning to take up LLB this coming july.. i'm just wondering.. how much we roughly earn? be it a lawyer, banker or legal advisor.. from starting pay till we retire? i'm really curious..

To clarify Legal advisor is actually a lawyer, but normally advisor to Corporations.

Okay based on roughly what I knowlah

Attachment student - Rm 800 - 1200 (law degree 1st yr - 3rd yr)
Graduate Law degree holder:
Banking line (fresh Grad) - 2.2K - 2.8K

CLP/BAR (Chanmbering)
Some firms give one off figure Rm 1500 for the 9 mths u chamber.

Here is a breakdown of what ur worth during the 9 mths

1-3 mths - 900

3 - 9 months (short call if i am not mistane) - RM 1200- 1500

Qualified Practitioner (after chambering)- earn more if you bring in customers %
Legal Assistant - Rm 2200 - Rm 2800 (1st yr) -
LA - 2nd yr 2K - 3K
LA - 3rd yr 3K - 4K

Lawyer (4th yr)
5K and above

Lawyers (5th yr)
sky is the limit, open ur law firm time.

Note: only for reference, the first few years of a chambering students life is practically negligeble cause you got no working experience (provided if your smart enuf and do attachment work early this will gain you a few dollar and pennies)

alrightt!!

this aint too bad.. to be honest..i decided to take up law because i don't really know what i want and i wanna play it safe..

i'm probably goin to kemayan atc (penang campus) in july for LLB..

regarding the student attachment, it's part time right?

i mean, we have to attend few classes a week..

and the clp, it's a one year course or smthg?

and umm many thx in advance!

Some additional input:

When you graduate from law school, you're a law graduate. If you want to become a lawyer, then you have to pass CLP, do your chambering and finally get called to the Bar. At this stage you're admitted as an Advocate & Solicitor. If you want to then practice as a lawyer, you have to work for a firm or open your own firm and get your practising certificate.

Some people quit practice after a few years and go "in house" meaning work as a legal advisor in a corporate entity. This means you do not renew your practising certificate and cannot practice law. However, your name will still be on the Bar roll and in future if you decide to practise again just apply for the practising cert.

Some law graduates don't get or don't want to become Advocates & Solicitors. Example: want to go straight into in house job (don't intend to practice). Or didn't pass CLP and don't want to try again.

But my advice is definitely aim to be admitted to the Bar. Gives you more opportunities and more marketable. Once you're admitted, to practice or not is up to you. Also, some ads for in house positions prefer to have a person admitted to the Bar.

Good advice. Apart from the points mentioned above, another of the key benefits of doing attachments is so the firm remembers you when you're ready to do chambering.

With the competitive job market and so many law graduates coming out, getting chambering positions (esp at top firms) is not easy. However, if you have done attachment there (and you did perform ok) then very likely you will get a place for chambering. Why is it easier to get attachment position rather than chambering? Simply because in many firms attachment students don't get paid (at least during my time, maybe it is differnet now). The firm considers it is doing you a favour by giving you some exposure and your labour is free. Of course during attachment you will be given menial jobs. But even so, if you pay attention there is a lot that can be picked up.

Good thing about compliance work, all PLCs need it. And if you're seriously thinking of moving ahead in the compliance line, later step out and work in the regulator of your industry, e.g. Bank Negara or Securities Commission. Then go back into compliance or even corporate affairs, you'll be very much in demand then.

For everyone's Info...

Btw, its long hours; loads of patience; tempers flaring & guns blazing; this job survives on paper work (how good is your paper working skills depends on how you escape the auditor) and turnover for this position is estimated to be one to two years max.

Compliance Officers are divided in to the following:
1. General CO (does everything under the sun - normally smaller brokers)
2. Risk Management CO
3. Legal & Compliance CO

Job increment is accelerated pace (due to shortage/high turnover) and expect to learn alot about the market in a very short time span, because your boss will always be testing all kinds of rubbish on you (so better have all those rules at your finger tips, otherwise prepared to BS your way through).

Life after Compliance Officer...

It's not merely just in the regulatory (bursa, SC, or BNM) line, having 2-3 yrs of CO experience under your belt opens many doors in the Banking Industry.

So what's your future plans aurora97? Saw from above that you're still keen on being a practising lawyer. Going into corporate law I presume?

yeap... Corporate i guess, but i will start with the basic brush up on litigation first and abit of conveyancing.

how long have you been in practice JChong, don't mind sharing which firm are you with and specialization...?

what is chambering? i can;t fully understand the term. sorry to be a burden. i just want to understand more

hahaha no burden at all, thats why i opened up this forum to share any one with legal experience.

In the legal profession, you must dare to ask questions and not shy a way. It sometimes maybe stupid (I also kena scolded many times in meeting for asking wrong questions) but at least you learn and be prepared next timelor.

Chambering has the same meaning has "pupillage" (pupil) or a student, something like apprentice but more on the job trainning.

I believe medical term is housemanship in order to become a full fledge doctor.

After doing your degree, your require to do your Malaysia = CLP/ UK = BVC, if you passed your required to do your chambering. So the road map is liek this

O Level ----> A level ----> Law Degree ---> CLP / BVC ----> Chambering for 9 mths with a law firm

Will PM you.

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Added on April 7, 2008, 11:38 pmThe full term is "pupil in chambers", hence why people use the term "pupillage" and "chambering" interchangeably.

Also, traditionally the place of practice of a barrister is called a "chamber" (not room or office) and the office of a judge is also called a chamber.

This post has been edited by jchong: Apr 7 2008, 11:38 PM

One more thing, as a pupil you must be attached to a "master", i.e. a practising lawyer of at least 7 years experience. Your master is supposed to guide and train you, but sadly few masters actually spend that much time with the pupil (since they are also very busy). So the pupil will have to take the initiative to learn, ask questions, etc.

Somewhere in the middle of your chambering period, you will have your "short call" which entitles you to do some minor basic courtwork. At the end of the chambering period when you are finally called to the Bar, this is often known as the "long call".