I am not sure if anyone has already started a thread on this but I will try my luck and see the responce.

This topic is up for general discussion for anyone aspiring to join Malaysia's Legal Profession, you may be a someone whose fresh out of Pre Uni i.e. A level, a law graduate, chambering student, someone dealing or related to legal matters or even a lawyer.

Come and share your experience!

I have experience in the area for those whom intend to pursue a Law Degree, A law graduate and someone who has a law degree but intends to go into another line of work other than in the legal profession.

Chambering opportunities, filing of documentation and where to chamber...

Attachment program/ students, when you should do it, why, tips and tricks...etc?

So come share!


Added:- There's one FAQ on Law Studies in EE http://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopi...post&p=14991215

You may read it up as well.

This post has been edited by stevanistelrooy: Mar 30 2008, 07:52 PM

Currently i am in Investment banking as a legal officer, i dont have a license to practice but good for you since your doing your BVC.

Well i decided to initiate this topic since this is probably the most common question, which most legal professionals who are fresh grads would ask.

Yes i agree with you, for the 1st and 2nd year it is absolutely essential you gain your working experience while your in Malaysia as an attachment student. Try and get use to the working environment, like Grim say its not glamorous its dirty and ugly.

But it toughen me up to be able to stand on my own two feet in the fast pace line of Investment Banking, the ability to be a punching bag and to go on the offensive if necessary.

Need i mention horror stories during my attachment ?

Let me start by introducing my line of work again, I am actually an Investment Banking Officer under the compliance dept but under legal.

downside:
There are tonnes of paper work involve, follow ups, human emotions to control and also to ensure that company rules and on top of that exchange requirements are complied with. The last part is probably the hardest to initiate, non-compliance would result in an audit query which would get very ugly.

upside:
One of the most feared dept and of course hated as well, anyone in Compliance practically rain supreme if you know where your footing is. The unique structure of compliance dept is such that we are answerable to the BOD instead of the Executive Dir of the company. We r called the middle office, we can walk between two worlds i.e. Front and Back Office... there is a a principle called chinese wall that seperates this two depts, because of conflict of interests. So the boss basically gives you free hand and independence to conduct your affair, implement programs and fast track to a senior position in the company as well.

I am still doing my CLp at the moment to add on to my batch of academic thropies along the way, but its by no means easy.

It's not as glamarous as being a practicing lawyer but the extra 2 pennies i earn from this job... lol ... I'm quite content. hehe

I will atempt your first question.

When you pursue a Law Degree, generally speaking you will be require to study the core subjects "compulsory".

(FYI. note if your in UK the core subjects are different from Malaysian requirements but make sure you pick all the core subjects, so you can practice in both countries, if memory serve me well includes: TORT, criminal, constitutional law, contract, EU LAw (optional for UK & EU), land law and Trusts.

You can specialise in a certain field after your Degree, namely by pursuing a Master's course or go into legal practice.

2nd question.
Take up international law, company law and environmental law only if you have sufficient credits. FRom my Uni days certain subject carries 20 credits or 30 credits but you can only have a maximum of 120 credits per year. Choose your combinations well, some Universities maybe famous or have fantastic lecturers for a particular subject. Others might not, so you have take into account alot of factors before taking up a subject.

I recommend Company Law though, its not compulsory model. It's a very dry subject so be prepared with a few litres of Coffee, but very useful whilst you begin your career.

3rd Law firms..

Generally in KL/Selangor law firms are abundant and they will take you in easily (provided your already a law degree holder or in your 1st yr fdoing law - hard but still possible). The pay isn't fantastic since you have yet to get your license or law degree, so i suggest that you do an attachment as early as possible (even after ur spm).

Will con't in a rush to go home ... bb

haha.. my advise is very simple only just that i believe u needed some re-assurance or 2nd opinion or something out of the box, cause i was where u were be4 but someone helped me so I am contributing back to.

if u have uncles or aunties who opens a law firm try joining them, start with what the clerks are doing. You may not notice it, but the work they do are very important although half the time clerks maybe typing blindly and do not know what they r doing.

Attachment is just to get the exposure and the fell of things, u can see daily how lawyers progress through out the day. Further it exposes you to work exeperience, sharpen your mind when u come out (graduated) to work and also to be able to adapt with the working environment.

To clarify Legal advisor is actually a lawyer, but normally advisor to Corporations.

Okay based on roughly what I knowlah

Attachment student - Rm 800 - 1200 (law degree 1st yr - 3rd yr)
Graduate Law degree holder:
Banking line (fresh Grad) - 2.2K - 2.8K

CLP/BAR (Chanmbering)
Some firms give one off figure Rm 1500 for the 9 mths u chamber.

Here is a breakdown of what ur worth during the 9 mths

1-3 mths - 900

3 - 9 months (short call if i am not mistane) - RM 1200- 1500

Qualified Practitioner (after chambering)- earn more if you bring in customers %
Legal Assistant - Rm 2200 - Rm 2800 (1st yr) -
LA - 2nd yr 2K - 3K
LA - 3rd yr 3K - 4K

Lawyer (4th yr)
5K and above

Lawyers (5th yr)
sky is the limit, open ur law firm time.

Note: only for reference, the first few years of a chambering students life is practically negligeble cause you got no working experience (provided if your smart enuf and do attachment work early this will gain you a few dollar and pennies)

For everyone's Info...

Btw, its long hours; loads of patience; tempers flaring & guns blazing; this job survives on paper work (how good is your paper working skills depends on how you escape the auditor) and turnover for this position is estimated to be one to two years max.

Compliance Officers are divided in to the following:
1. General CO (does everything under the sun - normally smaller brokers)
2. Risk Management CO
3. Legal & Compliance CO

Job increment is accelerated pace (due to shortage/high turnover) and expect to learn alot about the market in a very short time span, because your boss will always be testing all kinds of rubbish on you (so better have all those rules at your finger tips, otherwise prepared to BS your way through).

Life after Compliance Officer...

It's not merely just in the regulatory (bursa, SC, or BNM) line, having 2-3 yrs of CO experience under your belt opens many doors in the Banking Industry.

yeap... Corporate i guess, but i will start with the basic brush up on litigation first and abit of conveyancing.

how long have you been in practice JChong, don't mind sharing which firm are you with and specialization...?

hahaha no burden at all, thats why i opened up this forum to share any one with legal experience.

In the legal profession, you must dare to ask questions and not shy a way. It sometimes maybe stupid (I also kena scolded many times in meeting for asking wrong questions) but at least you learn and be prepared next timelor.

Chambering has the same meaning has "pupillage" (pupil) or a student, something like apprentice but more on the job trainning.

I believe medical term is housemanship in order to become a full fledge doctor.

After doing your degree, your require to do your Malaysia = CLP/ UK = BVC, if you passed your required to do your chambering. So the road map is liek this

O Level ----> A level ----> Law Degree ---> CLP / BVC ----> Chambering for 9 mths with a law firm

My memories a bit sketchy...

first u have apply to anyone of the Uni's offering BVC

than apply to an INN's of Court.

fingers crossed and hope for the best, wait for offer letter.

BVC requirements
recognize british law degree
minimum 2:1 (some may allow 2:2)
accepted by an INN
have the requisite "core" subjects
seats r limited so apply early.
mature student (master higher chance of acceptance)

again using my very sketchy memory...

BVC is offered in...

Cardiff Univeristy
Univeristy West of England
Northumbria
London (a Few but i do not know the name)

So far the above r the popular ones.

Hahah.. i have honours for my LLB thats quite sufficient for your info.

LLB ...Cardiff

Don't know what u meant by Int or ext .

External i might mistaken it as Ldn External.

Internal i might mistake it for local University.

My LLB is from Cardiff University, yr forgot.

Requirement to get Honours is at least 2nd class lower or was it 3rd?

Ranking
First Class: A
Second Class Upper: B
Seconf Class Lower:C
Third : D
GD : F
Fail

---

Added on April 8, 2008, 7:26 pmjust helping out, but in the end of the tunnel....

Maybe one day... can form a small association instead of always being controlled by the BAR Counsel, higher institution of learning that monopolize the legal market or being kicked around like football by Law firms.

No one gets left out or left behind for once.

Besides the point...

I will add on to the list chambering/attachment opportunities are available at...

Khaw & Partners (KL)
SC Lim & Partners (USJ)
Lee Ong and Kandiah (KL)
ZUL RAFIQUE & PARTNERS (KL)

Some I might be able to comment/suggestions since I had some short stints there, others are where my friends are currently attached or chambering there.

Feel free to comment and add on to the list!




This post has been edited by aurora97: Apr 8 2008, 07:26 PM

haha... never mind friend, this topic is to help future lawyers not scare them off. Will set up another topic somewhere else, of course no profession is perfect...

anyway i was day dreaming, its just something to rant about.

Overall its fine.

Additional Assistance:

My experience is somewhat mixed, but feel free to ask me anything falling within the falling jurisdictions... wil try my best to assist.

Futures, Options & Derivatives Market (not equity!)
Bursa Malaysia Derivatives Buisness Rules
Capital Market Services Act 2007

Well from what i gather from friends who take UOL it is hard, I have not done it so I do not know much. (hahah.. hearsaylah)

Generally speaking, to do any external subjects you need lecturers whom are well experience, veterans and ample facility to support such studies. Otherwise, its probably a sitting duck scenario and you might not know what the hoots your doing with your law degree.

Gd luck to those who wish to UOL external

To My Fellow Peers!

A respectable Investment Bank in Malaysia is looking for Law Graduates (with LLB Degree) or Practicing Lawyers as Legal Officers / Legal Assistant's in the Investment Bank's Legal Department.

For those who are interested in this position, you can PM me for further details.

DO NOT SEND ME YOUR RESUME!!

This news can also be found at the following link!

http://forum.lowyat.net/topic/676922

This post has been edited by aurora97: Apr 18 2008, 07:01 PM

Actually 1K is a bait for newbies who r not so familiar with the industry and didnt do any research especially on payment of wages/salary/allowance depending.

Only medium firms offer around 1.5 -2K mostly in KL, i have friends gotten this salary range and quite a few since i know they wont accept anything lower.


My 2 cents, pick a firm with the highest possible retention rate. You dont want to be at the end of the 9 mths hanging around look for job so inconvenient (unless of course the environment is really bad). Thats wht my gf did, if ur grades are good. Try get into Lee Hishamuddin, Wong & Partners, Shok Lin n Bok, (btw forget abt RDL very low retention rate)?...

I have a friend in Zaid Ibrahim, he seems to be liking it there might want to give it a try there.

refer to the above table...
as to which law firm is better, that i cannot advice best u seek friends whom are already working in those firms

thats more or less the benchmark for the legal profession believe me it wont go lower or change anytime soon, in fact they might increase it.

another suprising fact that you should know during "economic downturns" like this the legal profession maybe the only business implied to be "recession proof". Supposedlylah go ahead and try ur luck.

yeah thats an option but u work like a cow for the Gov, u can by pass chambering but u'd have to work for 7 yrs (if i am not mistaken) with the AG be4 u get an exemption. With great powers come greater responsibilities too. *die*

Nobody likes working for the AG for reasons everyone else knows very well.

than again u get pension and all...

so depends on pro & con and what career r u lookin for?

* by the way u might want to explain the procedures if anyone is interested to apply for the above positions probably in the legal section education thread... its good to know.

This post has been edited by aurora97: Dec 31 2008, 10:20 AM

well from what i have heard, rather than going for the big salary try going for retention... i have heard many people after chambering having the headache of being retained or looking for new law firms to join.

that said normally once a chambering student leaves a law firm to join another, the new host will expect that it has hired a lawyer and not a chambering student. (if u get what i mean)