I just read the rules and regulations that everyone of us here should follow.I do think that more rules should be enforced to prevent unnecessary flame war.Example:Today 2 newly-opened thread and Liv thread


Besides, I do think that even with these rules, some people tend to create another account to continue with flaming posts.For example : airmood2 and Fernando

Am I the only one thinking that the moderator not doing enough to moderating the forum especially in stopping flame war and offending siggy.

So, what do you guys think about it?




Notes:Any flame baiting posts, meaningless post will be reported at once..Please carry on with a proper discussion.Thank You.

Kawan, there's a pinned thread up there. check luu..

Kawan, I mean to discuss whether we should make the rules better for the sake of forum..Not about the pinned thingy la.

I think the rules is good. It's only the implementation that needs some improvement. The Whacker and Theripper both are good mod. Mods task will never be easy but it will be easier if they know how to wear different hats when they're posting as a mod and as a fan of their own club. The rules is a rules but sometimes the enforcer must use their common sense when to enforce it. The rules created to make life easier to everybody not the other way around.

edited: geez i better shaddap..

This post has been edited by toby.c13: Mar 25 2008, 07:49 PM

How you wanna make rules better? I mean, there's some mod didn't even care to take action on their respective thread, instead, he picking on other thread's mistake. What else can we, powerless forumer do?

That's why we should list down the pros and the cons of the current Football lounge to let the admin know..the staff know and the moderator himself know about this.

where is theripper ... i missed him ....

I second that.To be frank, the rules are good enough to keep the forum carry on with proper discussion without any disturbance.Yet, there are people who like to fool around by opening a new account and start flame war everywhere.I think proper action should be taken.Eg, IP lock maybe?

EG:airmood2 and Fernando

This post has been edited by J-Piggy: Mar 25 2008, 07:50 PM

That's good, when someone like you having such great mindset but sometimes the situation wasn't as easy as you think. You know la.. neh.. aih..

haih..it seem Sunday Grand Slam match make all of this happen

i honestly think it was all good banter in between the fans, but a few rotten apples took things too far and made it worst..

I used to love this section when everyone here discuss with proper behavior..Yet, something changed it.It somehow transformed into a place where all flaming occurs...and it is non stop flame war. Really tired of this...The rules is not working or the moderator's fault?

jus found out ripper has quit being a mod ...

what offending siggy ..?? if you feel its offensive then report it ... some people might not feel its offensive .. if its bordering to nudity then yes ... sometimes i feel its offensive where ppl put the things they own like blabla blabla core 2 duo or whatever ... so might not ... just and example and ps i disable those siggies already cos it take too long to load ....

flame wars ... some call it banter wkakakaka ... ok if u bite the bait for flame ... who is the wrong 1 .... i dunno how old for each forumer .. but i give the benefit of a doubt and that all of us are matured enough to see thru all the sarcasm .. lulz ... most of the posts are filled with sarcasm ....

I believe what happened last week was a composition of what everyone from everywhere did a little bit of wrong, and it snow-balled, all hell broke loose and we're here today! Its not only abt the Rules or the Moderators, I personally think it encapsulates the forumers as well. Everyone has to take a share of the Blame Cake. The 'rotten apples' did take everything out of context, and the repercussions are that the Rules have now been magnified to an extent where a little bit of banter could seem prejudicial and blown out or proportion.

Adding to that, some of the forumes were hurt the last time out and are now ultra-sensitive to the postings from a rival club. I am not pointing to anyone in specific, because i certainly feel we have a few immature characters here and there, and the laws of life would equate that that is inevitable.

Im never one to only criticise, but maybe we should also provide suggestions on how to remedy and get things back together. I for one certainly hope that fans, regardless of which flag and banner ure from, would encourage one another to post in each others thread. When you do post, please take into consideration of the sensitivities, and there MAY be an idiot or two, but dont let it get your spirits down.

Nando (Pool) and myself (United) exchanged a couple of PMs last night, and i think it went well. Infact, i thought it was fantastic to actually take a minute and create a little banter between ourselves, and he and i left it at just that. No harm done.

Be the same. Change your attitude. The forum is for everyone.

And I believe one of those rotten apples support the same team as you. The one who cause all these commotions.

I think that's enough on posts indicating me do not take any action against Man Utd thread members.

You can always PM the staffs and ask whether I flag any of their post for warnings/etc.

Mind you, warnings given to any user are NOT visible to normal members, not even moderators. Only STAFF/ADMIN can view the warn log of the members. Plus any moderator do not have the authorities to issue warnings/suspension/ban. All these are done by staff/admin after reviewing any request from the mods.

This post has been edited by alien2003: Mar 25 2008, 08:20 PM

It cant be helped that United has the majority of the Fans and with this majority, the percentage of the rotten apples will be higher than the other clubs.
Also, are u saying that we should prosecute all United fans coz of these people? We have no control of what they do.

Nice post.I agree..Yet,somehow,some people who I do not wish to name here are childish (if you ask me to label him) and tend to start flame war all around not only in the rival's thread but any thread that relevant to his club's rival.

For example:


You might call this a banter but it is somehow very offending.This is more than just a childish act.Severely lack of sportsmanship.Many people may tend to argue that is a way of celebration for beating arch-rivals but this is overdoing it.For example, the likes of kobe8bryant.He might had putting siggy to celebrate his club's victory, we can understand that but he removed it and carry on with proper discussion after the day.Some people on the other hand tend to take the celebration as a LAME excuse to invite flame war. Do we seriously need this kind of forumer who don't mature to post around here,affecting the forum's quality?I doubt that.

Yeah I truly understand it. That why I din state all of United fans. I know there's some genuine fans there.

this is football.some team/player follow the fair-play rules and some other not...
it also happen with the fans...

dont blame the moderator for all this.they just done thier job well over the years.or maybe we can vote u to be a next Football Lounge moderator...

It is not totally depends on maturity to decide whether the flame war start or not.Some people tend to love the club they support more than normal people.That's why they were crying when their clubs were defeated..It is solely depends on forumer whether they want to respect others or carry on with their arrogant attitude of not respecting others.

This post has been edited by J-Piggy: Mar 25 2008, 08:22 PM

Oh yeah? I doubt that. Screwing Liverpool's thread considered doing a great job?

I was a mod in Football Lounge before. But because 2-3 forumes against my appointment, with free mind I offer to step down as my intention is to serve everybody (it does not mean to please everyone). If I can't serve everyone and be fair, why should I become a mod?

I don't get it.Are you asking alien2003 to step down?I mean prelude23 was talking about recent case in Liv thread..not the past...

I know whatt prelude23 means (and yours too). Who am I to ask him to step down?

And this is the behaviour of a poster with a VIP tag? i'm speechless.....

Stop using newbie account to post around pls?I mean what you are doing now is against R&R as you are duplicating and registered 2nd accounts..Mod, pls do something?

Well, there's no need to go so far till step down as mod you know? A simple explanation and words of apology to the Liverpool forumers will definitely clear things up but as a mod, he fail to do it. Instead, its Whacker who in the first place had nothing to do with the case came out and said that was a misunderstanding. LOL

actually, what happen?

as far as i know

1) a post by someone in the pool thread got flagged for warning by the mod in question
2) but the staff mistakenly banned the person instead of just warning
3) then when the rest of pool fans found out he got banned, they started to show their anger
4) after much discussion and flame wars, another mod came in and said it was a mistake by staff that mistakenly ban instead of warn..

is this correct?

If I was wrong, please let me know what it is? And if I offended anybody, it's beyond my control as it's only my personal opinion. And I don't think Lowyat.Net prohibited any forumers from giving their personal opinion. I am always thinking myself as a regular forumer like others any always trying my best to make a posting within the rules . If admin thinks that I shouldn't be a VIP, they can always take it back. No harm and no heart feeling to me.


Yes, I 2nd that. Mod's job is not easy and we should be thankful to them for being a volunteer. But, as a human being, we all make mistakes. And, when we did it, no harm if we accept it and make an apology.

This post has been edited by bwan: Mar 25 2008, 09:20 PM

Not too sure...but i think is around like that.....but what Bepha and prelude meant is they are not happy for the mistake made by moderator and they din apologize...I think thats what they meant.

5) No apology or whatsoever by the mods to the Liverpool's fans which left many of us in disgust.

It is to my knowledge that alien2003 has apologized and can't we just let it die? Don't see a point in headhunting him unless you have a better candidate as a moderator? I personally would like verx (someone who's BPL neutral) to take up a post and seeing by the way he posts, I am sure we'd get more leeway with the use of profanities. But that is not by any means saying that alien is not doing a good job.

why should the mod apologize for something he didnt do .. ? he just reported the post ... he did not do any banning or warning .. it is up to the staff to do it ...

if what u say they angry abt (the mod never apologize) is true,
from what the LYN system is, its not moderator fault, its staff who mistakenly ban instead of warn..

LYN Mods cant take action, they only flag/identify posts/things that need action to be taken against.. the staff is the one that lays down the punishment..

I think they guys in the pool thread got a little carried away, the mod in question didnt make the mistake, its some1 from the staff.

if they think they feel that the mod was bias in flagging people in the pool thread rather than united thread, calm down and think straight guys.. how sure are u that he never flagged posts in united thread? u cant see this, oni staff/admin can see this..
im sure the mod in question has flagged thousands of posts all over the Football Lounge since its his duty, it just so happens that this time around a liverpool fan's posts got flagged and a mistake by the staff got him banned. ( i believe this has been reversed )

for those who say got united supporters who got away with the Vulgarism, well, how sure are u that the person hasnt been warned?
so please, calm down, think properly before u say anything coz there are people out there just waiting for a reason to start a whole new flame war.

---

Added on March 25, 2008, 9:26 pmfind my response to ur post in my post

This post has been edited by james2306: Mar 25 2008, 09:29 PM

so undilah WHOOPA hahahaha

haha will do bro will do...
maybe we need one moderator each club...

Well, eventhough he did not do the bannings but it was a mistake to ban Jonno. He played a part there and he should come out to apologize as well. Come on, even TheWhacker apologized. I'm not headhunting alien but I just hope he could serve well and bring back the Liverpool community.

I second that!!

I'd like to vote whoopa too

Reminder:
Please discuss properly..Dun use any words that might invite flame wars.Discuss for improvements..not arguments.

This post has been edited by J-Piggy: Mar 25 2008, 09:49 PM

actually its correct .. no arguements ... each club got 1 mod how nice .... but then it will be mod vs mod then lol ...

actually u guys blame alien cos he happen to be a man utd fan .. if he were to be a fan of let say real madrid ??? or fulham .. he flag a post in any thread .. and that person got banned .. nobody would bother ...

ask u guys really ... izit not ?? alien2003 got flag man utd thread posts or not we wont know .. as it been told a million times .. only staff or admin ...

He didn't drive them out. If anything, it's the R and R that are getting on our nerves and not the implementation of the rules. That one case was just the final straw in many people's cases. Duke Red and the others have been feeling this way over a long period of time and it wasn't just Jonno's ban that started it. Personally, I am looking for registration at RedCafe as well.

haihz...
you didnt get my point.. nevermind.. i do not want to explain anymore..



we have been really off-topic, sorry J-Piggy

I'm not really want to get into fight but man, you still owe Liverpool fans an apology. If you did it via personal message, then my bad.

I'm a Chelsea fan. He take action against Liverpool fan. Why would I want to risk getting warning? I'm speaking nothing but truth.

Trouble is, according to goldfries, you don't know the whole truth. alien has already apologized and he doesn't need to clear the air with you, it's not your battle.

First rule to be a Mod: No text talk.



On a serious note, as much as this debate will go on whether alien was bias or not, we wouldn't know. Only the Staffs/Admins have the access and only them, will decide whether he befitting as Football Lounge mod. Though a mod should be well-liked by majority of us(users), a mod should actively and constantly monitor other threads and should have a certain "authority" (if needed) in order to maintain this place.

well he deleted my post ONLY when i and another MU fans were in arguement!how ironically......

Problem is neither you would know the whole truth. And I'm actually seeking the whole truth.

This post has been edited by Belphegor: Mar 25 2008, 09:58 PM

why not ... MOD also need to mingle around the peasants ma .. i meant forumers ....

I second that.When everyone is against you, it will be hard for your job.No supports and No respects, how can u get your job done back then...I agree with u

My apology to Alien2003 if he already did that as it's was my bad for not seeing his apology anywhere. But, I wonder why some of the seniors that contributed a lot to Football Lounge still not happy? Or maybe they're ok now. If it's the case, we should stop all this arguments and let the mods including Alien2003 to carry on with his job.

Because Jonno never open his account after that incident..How would anyone know about this? not even Jonno know...If jonno dunno, who know?

What whole truth do you want? You were already crucifying alien from the get go with your sarcasm. And as I have mentioned, goldfries has already stated that alien has apologized and even Duke Red and Jonno have heard about it and accepted the apology (if I am not mistaken) so what more would you want? Enough with the headhunting. And as I have said, the members who left LYN didn't leave over that isolated incident. It was a number of issues all adding up and if there's anyone to blame, it's the R & R.

I don't think Jonno would be as active as he was before. Prolly just check some stuff..

Not only you. I dont remember seeing his apology either.

@kobe

If members of Liverpool left this forum due to the incident added up, how come I've never heard about ManUtd members leaving this forum? Now we're not talking about one Pool fans but a number of them. As far as I know, Duke Red, Jonno and co. had always been posting quality post here without trolling and bait flame in other threads. If according to you its the R&R that has been factor, why I dont see other member migrating away because of this? There must be something which deeply upsets them which trigger their decisions to move away from here.

The reason why they are leaving now is because they have an alternative with the RAWK forums. Registering at the RedCafe isn't as easy. I myself have had difficulties registering there until now. Just because you don't know that there are United fans leaving, doesn't mean they aren't. refnulf who happens to be one of the senior members have defected to another forum for a long time and other members have had accounts at the cafe and have started to defected.

We bow to no one except to our religion you and me share.

Truth is, we can't really go against the R & R of this forum since this is a public forum and who knows who will be reading our posts if the mods allowed those posts? It's pretty simple, follow the R&R, and you will be fine. You want to report someone's post, go ahead and report I say (no matter how immature that will sound). Obviously Jonno, DukeRed and gang found a better place to discuss about their team, so why holding them back when they have already seen enough here?

Simple illustration:

You have been drinking milk brand A for ages and you have no complains whatsoever. One day, you ran out of milk brand A and you decided to ask your friend to grab milk brand A for you. Alas, your friend couldnt find brand A and got you brand B instead. You tried and love brand B immediately. Question: Would you go back for brand A knowing how good brand B is?

Why retnulf leaved? Is it because of he's unhappy of the R&R or any particular case. If it's a personal reason, it's nothing to do with us. But I believed the likes of Jonno leaving because he seems "forced" to do so. I have told them in Liverpool thread that without rivalry fans, it wont be as fun as we have it our own forum. If I have a Chelsea own forum, of course I will be there but it's not like here in Football Lounge. Imaging playing our rival in our own turf and noone from our rival fans in the stadium?

Unfortunately for us, LYN is similar to that. We have petty away fans running to the Internet police when someone calls our favorite players names. I have nothing with Ronaldo being called a nut and I sure as heck don't expect to get a warning for calling Gerrard a lifeless piece of sheet of paper.

as mentioned above, it is all up to individual.Sometimes, when they do it, they feel nothing but when ppl did it, they report it...

We're holding them back because we want this place to be a better one. Like bwan said, whats the point everyone migrating to other forums and have the place all by themselves? The nice thing about here is that we go almost all the major club fans gathering here and socialize among each other. If all of the sudden there's no Pool fans, wont it be weird?

You see mate, I'm with Gunners and Bwan is with Blues. Don't you feel the thing here?

---

Added on March 25, 2008, 10:38 pmMaybe we should ask mods to warn those who report over small matters.

This post has been edited by prelude23: Mar 25 2008, 10:38 PM

There is very little interaction among opposing fans anyway. When I say something you don't like? What do you do? You report me. No point having opposing fans kow tow to you just because you are a rival in LYN. You have something to say, say it out loud and proud. It sickens me whenever I see posts like "Good luck on today's game" or "Haha, hope you win."

but some might wish other whole heartedly...some might be "geh geh"

Well, sometimes its nice to see those little greetings from your rival you know? And if the forum is make up by one sided fans, we will not be able to see 'Vidic vs Agger Who's better' kinda thread. What the fun in it?

But look at the kind of replies in such threads. Would you prefer someone like Jonno or Duke who utters the occasional Fs (Jonno utters it a lot) or a young ah beng who does nothing but post one liners and report comments that aren't of his belief. The fact that Jonno was going to get a warning says it all as well. The rules and regulations are flawed. It's very Malaysian-like for a Malaysian audience.

What's F?

Anyway, I dont see our argument going anywhere if the mods aren't gonna change anything.

Yeap...the damage already done...Nothing can change that..It hurts and they wont be coming back..
Thats y this thread is made...to prevent such incident to occur and to provide a better foruming environment..

one more thing is that, dont be a hypocrite. Siapa makan cili dia rasa pedas

Do you mean someone insulting Liv in Man utd thread and asking people to stop flaming in top4 hated thread?
I did know that hypocrite...

Like kobe has said, if every interaction with the rivals meant someone pressing the report button, no, I don't feel anything. Occasionally some newbies will come in and taunt or call names but the best solution is to ignore them, and not taking the flamebait.

If you really enjoy reading or debating with Jonno or dukered, you can always register an account at their forum. And that is what you will get from there, a true (often) liverpool fans view.

No offence mate, this reporting issue had only been an issue after Jonno was reported. Before that there was nth serious.

And I like LYN football lounge. Thats why I've been saying I want those real fans to reconsider turning their back against LYN.

well, you have eyes..you can really see it..the Liv thread is not like the old liv thread where many visitors and posters..all those seniors posters gone...and left behind who is it? If this can happen to Liv thread, someday it might happen to Arsenal/Chelsea/Man City and etc thread...just my 0.02

Considering your posts and registration date, I bet you are new. How the heck you knew the senior posters in the first place. It was only this morning that you had no more than 20 posts. Come on dude, those who are in the Liverpool thread already taking this issue off. You want me to quote them? I bet you're no better than a Troll. What is that you really want dude?

Do you actually read all the posts before you post?

Define serious? The only reason why the Jonno case was serious was because there was a cock up but the sad case still remains that sour grapes report posts they can't reply/tolerate.

I did and I was only resisting myself from posting here. Looks like I couldn't help it. You're trying to be the justice here and yet you went into both Arsenal and Liverpool's thread and making yourself like a local there. Can you not see where is this going?

Erm yeah, I agree with you. R&R is there I agree but we as football fans knows that name calling could be tolerate if the manner is right. You see, Jonno din go to Manutd thread and shout c*** Ronaldo right? There's no need to report this. Imagine if every post similar to that are to be report, the mods will be giving warning like there's no tomorrow. I'm sure you agree with me kobe.

i'm not trying to make justice over here..and yes for sure i m visiting both liv and arsenal thread..I dun think there is any problem with that like how corez used to visit liv thread...I m juz stating the problems we need to solve and indeed solution is needed or any migrating case might happen, can u get it?

Okay, I give up. It is pointless.

Why did you say used to? I'm still gonna visit that thread and post as long as it does not cause unnessary flame wars.

wrong word used haha...

Guys guys. C'mon, its like you guys are going on a merry-go-round and the only thing you guys are doing is making it go quicker.

Look, we came this far and we have 4 pages of the thread, each and everyone of you thrashing it out and the other coming back with a counter, and its going in circles but never forward.

Each and every one of you have posted in this specific thread, not because you're defending your colours, but because you love the forum and want it to be a better place. But if the mods dont read this thread, then itll be in vain. But nonetheless, J-Piggy's idea to bring it up i think is a good move, but only if everyone actually posts CONSTRUCTIVE ideas on making this a better place instead of just CRITICISING.

You guys were so busy going at each others neck that you almost lost track of a good idea along the way.

Sumone mentioned that each club, or at least the big 4 need a mod for their club. I think this is brilliant, because in the event of having to warn a forumer of one club, it is best done by their own "kind". This deflects any kind of potential animosity and everyone can live happily ever after. Its a brilliant idea, but one that needs to be sold to the admin of LYN. Im sure J-Piggy (Pool, i think) and Kobe (United) and Bwan (Chelsea) and even Kimhoong (Gunners) can actually sell the idea to them, since (i personally believe that) the football lounge is genuinely one of the most active threads in LYN.

Why dont you guys mull over that and come up with an amicable solution instead of throwing bricks at each other. Come up with ideas please, not just criticism. No amount of progress can come out of this if this continues!

Abt the Pool seniors, if you can show that this forum is decent and genuinely up for good banter between fans, im sure theyll feel welcomed on their own and theres no need to fret abt it. Although its by a long shot, but Jonno, JonC, Duke were genuine fans of football so im sure theyd find it within themselves to come back. I HIGHLY DOUBT the Pool thread will be too quiet for too long.

I've advised not to bring up this matter again and yet this thread is created for nothing.

Damage had been done and issue had since gotten quiet.
The seriousness or the actual displeasure is the messed up situation whereby Jonno was banned by the mods because of mis communication; and apology was not given by mr alien or the actual staff that took the wrong action.

There's many in LYN which gets warning every now and there and the seniors would tell you it's no big deals. When one continues to make a big thing about this since everyone is letting time goes by, it's seem too much and it's getting childish and raising unwanted tensions around.

Just let the matter rest. I think kobe is right in the sense that this had turned into childish sour grape action.

Anyway, pls close this thread and inform the mod to invincible or delete it. It really serves no purpose.

It somehow is meant for changing the current football lounge..and some people just mentioned about old cases and some even dropby to counter attack...If mod see it serves no purpose, they can close it...but i think solutions are needed to overcome the riots, eh?

Thanks boon. Exactly my point.

not at all. I still believe u can say whatever u want in ur thread, but when it comes to neutral thread, u simply dont flame, or if u r offended by someone's post/flamebait, u either ignore/report it. But somehow there are ppl who fuel the fire even more

I dun agree..Moderator should know what we need to have a better discussion instead of flaming around or insulting.I think this thread should be pinned..

Damage had been done and things are getting into places.
Ask around and you'll noticed that fans goes into each other thread. Some posted craps but some posted some insights.
It always had been like that. The intensity arises because of a flaming war between dream and shgk. The mod probably took a shot at anybody offending the R&R during that intensity same like Bennet's case. But the unlucky part is the Staff got the wrong idea and banned Jonno instead. Further unjust when Jonno demanded for a public apology and was disregarded. Thus that is how it all came about.

But ever since, things are starting to rest but if every another day one is going to create a thread or bring this up; when is it going to end?
I've always advised the best solution and I guess it's in every forum's guide whereby when trolls or so called flame baiter are around, it's best to ignore and do not reply. Since we have the options of clicking the report button; click when deem necessary.

If you guys wants solution, I would say let the mod here to be someone without any affiliation towards any certain club so no one can blame these mods to be biased.

Everyone has their own different definition of "proper manner" so how do we judge if a post is posted in the right manner?

FYI, I had more than 10 reported posts the next day after the MU v LIV game [both threads combined] and at least half of them are reported by someone else, NOT me. Among those offenders, they are a mixture of members from both threads. I flagged all of them for warning. Try ask corez, one of his post was reported for name calling and he got a warning for that.

http://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopi...post&p=16328902

Another thing is Jonno did not get any ban on account. All he got was 10% warn + disable posting for 3 days. In fact, one of the admin was then proceed to remove them. PM & ask goldfries if you all think I make this up.

I will not explain further since it will be useless if any of you insist on believing I am bias when carrying out my moderating duty.

You can always contact the staff/admin to verify/complain/etc if you think it is necessary.

No, in Liverpool thread we always advise the juniors to be sensible in their post too........because we always advised on not to do upon others what you do not expect to be do unto you.
But sometimes in the heat of the moment, situations are hard to control.

It is still up to admin who going to be moderator right?

Agree. Not neccessary a sticky but why trying to stop others from talking? If anyone here think it's not necessary why bother to come here and bla bla bla. If it's a crap for you, just leave it to others. Don't talk as you're the smartest of all here and trying to show others are not. It's only a discussion here and everyone should have their own say.