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 creatine monohydrate, question

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TSlowks
post Mar 6 2008, 11:46 AM, updated 18y ago

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Can the powers that be on this forum explain to me what is creatine monohydrate and what are it's advantages / disadvantages ? What would be the best brand to take ?
King83
post Mar 6 2008, 11:52 AM

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QUOTE(flawless from bb.com)
I don't know about you guys but I'm sick of people asking creatine questions thats been answered a thousand times.

Creatine is an amino acid. It is normally produced in the body from arginine, glycine and methionine. Creatine plays a vital role in cellular energy production as creatinephosphate (phosphocreatine) in regenerating adenosine triphosphate (ATP) in skeletal muscle. Without ATP, muscle contraction is not possible. Oral administration of creatine increases muscle stores and may increase muscle strength and improve exercise performance. In the diet,creatine is found in meat and fish - although cooking destroys most of it. Creatine claims to increase energy, power output, and enchances muscle size and strenght.


A significant gain in physical performance in high-intensity exercise has been shown with creatine doses of 20 to 30 g/day, but more recent research is indicating that similar performance benefits are possible with much lower doses in the range of 2-5 grams/day though benefits may take longer to be noticed).

Taking very large doses of creatine daily seemed to increase the strength of muscular dystrophypatients' muscles by about 10 percent. Although that may be considered a relatively small gain it may be very important to that person who can now pick up a glass of water. Ten grams of
creatine per day for 5 days followed by 5 grams per day for another week have produced increases in muscle strength in the legs, hands and feet of patients with muscular dystrophy.Such patients usually have lower creatine levels than healthy people, so boosting muscle stores may help augment cellular energy production and support muscular contraction.

The most common regimen for creatine supplementation follows a two-phase cycle with a 5-10 day loading phase (20-25 g/day) followed by a variable length maintenance phase (2-5 g/day)to maintain muscle saturation. It is unclear, however, whether the loading phase is actually
needed to achieve the same end result. Creatine absorption appears to be enhanced when the supplement is taken with a high-carbohydrate drink such as fruit juice.

Purchasing creatine involves three basic choices:

1. 100 percent pure creatine monohydrate - It's a white powder(not unlike baking soda) that is basically tasteless and odorless.You can mix it in water, juice,protein shake, etc. Do not,however, mix creatine with a citrus drink. The combination of creatine and a citrus drink may result in some
breakdown of the product, converting creatine into creatinine,hich is useless to your body.

2. Creatine and sugar (premixed) - A 1996 study showed that ingesting a carbohydrate solution with creatine promoted a 60 percent greater increase in total creatine concentrations in the muscle, compared with taking creatine alone.(14) Sixty percent is a big difference.However, the subjects who took the creatine and carbohydrates were pounding back 93g of carbs four times per day for five days. 93g of carbohydrates is an additional 1,488 calories per day, or 7,440 calories for the five-day experiment. Any way you look at it, that is a good way to get fat. So, if you are going to follow the protocol of this study and suck back four sugar shakes per day for five days, that's where I would leave it. In other words, if you are not concerned about how big your gut gets in a week's time, and you want to load creatine, this is a proven method. After the loading period is over, if you wanted to continue with this type of
drink, I would reserve the 93g of sugary goodness for your post-workout meal only. Post-workout is when your muscles are begging for sugar like a crack addict looking for a fix. If one were to critically compare this study to commercial creatine premixes,most supplement manufacturers would fall short on the amount of sugar in one serving. The sugar increases insulin, which transports creatine into the muscles. For now, suffice it to say I have tried many premixed creatine drinks and can say with a great degree of certainty that they do work better than creatine
alone. Like I said, though, if you want to follow this protocol,reserve this drink reserved for a post-workout shake,and you won't have to worry about bustin' your gut.


3. Creatine and insulin mimicking agents - Agents that mimic insulin, such as Alpha-lipoic acid, have an effect similar to sugar on your body. When you consume high levels of simple sugars,your insulin goes through the roof. The insulin is responsible for getting nutrients (i.e. creatine) to the muscles. So these products theoretically punch up your insulin without the 93g of gut-busting sugar. The concept is fantastic, and I believe they work. A 1998 study confirmed that "insulin can enhance muscle creatine accumulation in humans, but only when present atphysiologically high or supraphysiological concentrations."(15) What this means is high insulin levels need to exist to enhance creatine's effects.Using insulin mimickers instead of sugar is an area moving to the forefront of "making creatine better."
Source

TSlowks
post Mar 6 2008, 12:10 PM

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QUOTE(King83 @ Mar 6 2008, 11:52 AM)
QUOTE(flawless from bb.com)
I don't know about you guys but I'm sick of people asking creatine questions thats been answered a thousand times.

Creatine is an amino acid. It is normally produced in the body from arginine, glycine and methionine. Creatine plays a vital role in cellular energy production as creatinephosphate (phosphocreatine) in regenerating adenosine triphosphate (ATP) in skeletal muscle. Without ATP, muscle contraction is not possible. Oral administration of creatine increases muscle stores and may increase muscle strength and improve exercise performance. In the diet,creatine is found in meat and fish - although cooking destroys most of it. Creatine claims to increase energy, power output, and enchances muscle size and strenght.
A significant gain in physical performance in high-intensity exercise has been shown with creatine doses of 20 to 30 g/day, but more recent research is indicating that similar performance benefits are possible with much lower doses in the range of 2-5 grams/day though benefits may take longer to be noticed).

Taking very large doses of creatine daily seemed to increase the strength of muscular dystrophypatients' muscles by about 10 percent. Although that may be considered a relatively small gain it may be very important to that person who can now pick up a glass of water. Ten grams of
creatine per day for 5 days followed by 5 grams per day for another week have produced increases in muscle strength in the legs, hands and feet of patients with muscular dystrophy.Such patients usually have lower creatine levels than healthy people, so boosting muscle stores may help augment cellular energy production and support muscular contraction.

The most common regimen for creatine supplementation follows a two-phase cycle with a 5-10 day loading phase (20-25 g/day) followed by a variable length maintenance phase (2-5 g/day)to maintain muscle saturation. It is unclear, however, whether the loading phase is actually
needed to achieve the same end result. Creatine absorption appears to be enhanced when the supplement is taken with a high-carbohydrate drink such as fruit juice.

Purchasing creatine involves three basic choices:

1. 100 percent pure creatine monohydrate - It's a white powder(not unlike baking soda) that is basically tasteless and odorless.You can mix it in water, juice,protein shake, etc. Do not,however, mix creatine with a citrus drink. The combination of creatine and a citrus drink may result in some
breakdown of the product, converting creatine into creatinine,hich is useless to your body.

2. Creatine and sugar (premixed) - A 1996 study showed that ingesting a carbohydrate solution with creatine promoted a 60 percent greater increase in total creatine concentrations in the muscle, compared with taking creatine alone.(14) Sixty percent is a big difference.However, the subjects who took the creatine and carbohydrates were pounding back 93g of carbs four times per day for five days. 93g of carbohydrates is an additional 1,488 calories per day, or 7,440 calories for the five-day experiment. Any way you look at it, that is a good way to get fat. So, if you are going to follow the protocol of this study and suck back four sugar shakes per day for five days, that's where I would leave it. In other words, if you are not concerned about how big your gut gets in a week's time, and you want to load creatine, this is a proven method. After the loading period is over, if you wanted to continue with this type of
drink, I would reserve the 93g of sugary goodness for your post-workout meal only. Post-workout is when your muscles are begging for sugar like a crack addict looking for a fix. If one were to critically compare this study to commercial creatine premixes,most supplement manufacturers would fall short on the amount of sugar in one serving. The sugar increases insulin, which transports creatine into the muscles. For now, suffice it to say I have tried many premixed creatine drinks and can say with a great degree of certainty that they do work better than creatine
alone. Like I said, though, if you want to follow this protocol,reserve this drink reserved for a post-workout shake,and you won't have to worry about bustin' your gut.
3. Creatine and insulin mimicking agents - Agents that mimic insulin, such as Alpha-lipoic acid, have an effect similar to sugar on your body. When you consume high levels of simple sugars,your insulin goes through the roof. The insulin is responsible for getting nutrients (i.e. creatine) to the muscles. So these products theoretically punch up your insulin without the 93g of gut-busting sugar. The concept is fantastic, and I believe they work. A 1998 study confirmed that "insulin can enhance muscle creatine accumulation in humans, but only when present atphysiologically high or supraphysiological concentrations."(15) What this means is high insulin levels need to exist to enhance creatine's effects.Using insulin mimickers instead of sugar is an area moving to the forefront of "making creatine better."
Source
*
Thanks. So do you take this stuff ?
King83
post Mar 6 2008, 12:11 PM

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Not yet, but planning to...

there's a cycle.... google it.

This post has been edited by King83: Mar 6 2008, 12:12 PM
kianweic
post Mar 6 2008, 12:26 PM

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I've been taking it for almost 2 weeks.

First day was crazy as per my workout journal here:
http://forum.lowyat.net/topic/535048
* My friend say it's a placebo effec (ie. all in the mind)

Basically after that, I was able to lift slightly more reps, slightly more weight and still be able to do my usual 1 hour cardio session.

In addition, my muscles feel harder than before but maybe that's just another placebo effect.

I am using the Universal Creatine Monohydrate (powder form). There's a new one in market call Creatine Ester something, supposingly to be better and it comes in tablet form.
King83
post Mar 6 2008, 12:31 PM

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Stop saying it's a placebo effect...
It is freaking real....
u wanna say placebo effect? Go tell it to those amulets/necklaces believers.

I'm interested in creatine for the size gain i heard...
not strength.

Like i always say, i'm a bodybuilder.
jones007
post Mar 6 2008, 12:36 PM

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size gain is temporary.. its because of more water retention. thats all. makes ur muscle less tight and hard.
King83
post Mar 6 2008, 12:36 PM

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2 weeks probably just finished loading...
don't think can see effects so fast...
no wonder u keep saying placebo.
TSlowks
post Mar 6 2008, 02:29 PM

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Umm how do you guys take creatine ?
andychee81
post Mar 6 2008, 02:56 PM

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QUOTE(lowks @ Mar 6 2008, 02:29 PM)
Umm how do you guys take creatine ?
*
i consume 30-45min before the workout as per instruction.

muscle went soft but larger. veins pop out of my head for 30min.


sharizall
post Mar 6 2008, 03:35 PM

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i also interested to know how you guys cycle the intake?

is it ok with 1 week loading, 6 week maintenance, stop for couple of week and then repeat the cycle..anyone?
kianweic
post Mar 6 2008, 03:38 PM

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I just started the cycle, not too experienced with it.

Supposingly 5g before and 5g after training. I usually just take 10g before work out.

On off day just take 10g.

Can mix with whey protein or can take it just with water.

I usually mix with whey protein, lazy to drink a lot of different liquid all the time.
sharizall
post Mar 6 2008, 03:45 PM

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QUOTE(CandleJack @ Mar 6 2008, 03:40 PM)
some people load, others don't.
There's a debate bout this not too long ago...

conclusion: it's entirely up to you. If you choose not to load, it'll take longer to reach the optimum intake level. If you load, some claim it's a marketing strategy to get consumers to consume more/faster. So it's entirely up to you.
*
and if i dont load..do i just take 10g daily? is there any certain time that we must stop consume then continue a week after..or just consume it everyday?


sharizall
post Mar 6 2008, 04:00 PM

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QUOTE(CandleJack @ Mar 6 2008, 03:55 PM)
yeah, you gotta stop taking it at one point.
*
thanks man..appreciate that.
kianweic
post Mar 6 2008, 10:14 PM

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I understand creatine is supposed to help retain water but today in gym session I sweat like t-shirts wet to the maximum. I seriously have no idea.

One during weight session and the other during cardio session. I would say neither of them is very intensive.

Cheers
N0eL
post Mar 6 2008, 10:16 PM

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QUOTE(andychee81 @ Mar 6 2008, 02:56 PM)
i consume 30-45min before the workout as per instruction.

muscle went soft but larger. veins pop out of my head for 30min.
*
Andy.. your creatine = Vasocharge?
andychee81
post Mar 6 2008, 10:35 PM

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QUOTE(N0eL @ Mar 6 2008, 10:16 PM)
Andy.. your creatine = Vasocharge?
*
yea why?
N0eL
post Mar 6 2008, 10:45 PM

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Just asking la bro.. coz i taking it also....

Sometimes i just took it 10 mins before i workout...cant wait...

First few weeks,, felt damn high,,,

Consuming 2 scoops now..... got used to it.. dont really feel the side effects now

No more tingling feeling on the body too..

Still able to whirl about 10lbs more for most routines..

Muscles definitely get bigger temporary.... But i dont get the softness u mentioned...Next round i try to feel it..
andychee81
post Mar 6 2008, 11:41 PM

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QUOTE(N0eL @ Mar 6 2008, 10:45 PM)
Just asking la bro.. coz i taking it also....

Sometimes i just took it 10 mins before i workout...cant wait...

First few weeks,, felt damn high,,,

Consuming 2 scoops now..... got used to it.. dont really feel the side effects now

No more tingling feeling on the body too..

Still able to whirl about 10lbs more for most routines..

Muscles definitely get bigger temporary.... But i dont get the softness u mentioned...Next round i try to feel it..
*
ohh yeah the tingling feeling. i got that too.
Broadica
post Mar 7 2008, 12:12 AM

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QUOTE(andychee81 @ Mar 6 2008, 11:41 PM)
ohh yeah the tingling feeling. i got that too.
*
hmn.. i had that tingling too but come and go... supposely creatine helps retaining ur pump and asist on recovery.

how and when do you guys that ur creatine?

i took it with my shake immediately after workout.
was thinking of trying cellmass for post workout... but not sure if they gonna differ alot to my current intake.


andychee81
post Mar 7 2008, 09:24 AM

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QUOTE(Broadica @ Mar 7 2008, 12:12 AM)
hmn.. i had that tingling too but come and go... supposely creatine helps retaining ur pump and asist on recovery.

how and when do you guys that ur creatine?

i took it with my shake immediately after workout.
was thinking of trying cellmass for post workout... but not sure if they gonna differ alot to my current intake.
*
errr it's suppose to be taken before the workout.
red-queen
post Mar 7 2008, 11:45 AM

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remember to drink PLENTY of water while on creatine.

i remmeber the 1st time i took creatine, my stool was hard as rock. then when i drank lots of water my stool went back to normal.
kianweic
post Mar 7 2008, 11:48 AM

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How come I perspire significant more after taking creatine?

My training last night, I perspire as many as 2 t-shirts during my weight session once and my cardio session once as well. I mean like really wet those type.

Fortunately, I did drink like 1.5 litres of water during workout.


jswong
post Mar 7 2008, 12:02 PM

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Water retention by creatine = more water transported into your muscle fibers. If you're sweating a lot while on creatine, you'd better rehydrate more too, bro. While I was on creatine I also used to piss more often during the workout session (perhaps also because I was taking in more water to prevent dehydration).

The size gain is temporary, but it helps you squeeze out some extra reps, or lift slightly heavier than before, thus contributing to actual strength gains 'cause you can subject your muscles to greater stresses while on creatine.

I only use creatine when I'm trying to get past a plateau. Otherwise, I won't load up so much on it because the "size increase" after 2 to 3 weeks of creatine use will vanish within 1 week of ceasing creatine intake. So I don't use creatine to look forward to the temporary size gains.

Some say that it's real, it works, even beginners should use it, etc. but let's just look at it logically. If you can't run 10km in less than an hour, what would you do? Will you load up on EPO so that you can run 10km day after day effortlessly, or will you train your body to adapt to the greater stress before giving it a helping hand? If someone just whacks EPO and has elevated endurance, what happens when he gets off it? No doubt his performance will be slightly better than before, but he won't be able to perform as well as when he was on EPO.

Same goes for creatine. Once you lay off it, usually you won't be able to push for as many reps as you could while on it. You can still push the extra poundages but not for as many reps. It would take some time for you to push as many reps at the higher poundages after you lay off creatine. Hence, some people prefer to continuously use creatine all the time to consistently maintain their heavy poundages in the gym.
kianweic
post Mar 7 2008, 12:18 PM

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Sounds reasonable.

No offense, but since I started using creatine I think I've shrink somewhat or maybe that's just in my mind. Or maybe I have managed to burn more fat, have to measure that sometime next month.

Also my intention was not to heavier but to lift more, and hence burn more energy. Hopefully more than enough to create a caloric deficit after including my meals.

I don't take fat burners as I had a real bad experience with hydroxy cut (the headaches). Therefore I am just giving creatine a go.

In the long run, I'll like to be able to just maintain by doing supersets more frequent like 3 times less lengthy gym session.

Sounds weird I know.

*PS jswong, My employer will be moving to 1Utama by May, probably will see you in Celebrity Fitness (if the firm decides to sponsor that as well)

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post Apr 10 2008, 01:03 AM

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QUOTE(andychee81 @ Mar 7 2008, 09:24 AM)
errr it's suppose to be taken before the workout.
*
Doesn't matter when you take the creatine. If you take it before it'll give you the energy to make longer reps and give you more explosive power, if you take it after then it'll be easier for your body to absorb it and better for recovery. If you take it and don't work out, your body will just store it for future use, unless it's plateau-ed then it'll come out in your urine.

QUOTE(kianweic @ Mar 7 2008, 11:48 AM)
How come I perspire significant more after taking creatine?

My training last night, I perspire as many as 2 t-shirts during my weight session once and my cardio session once as well. I mean like really wet those type.

Fortunately, I did drink like 1.5 litres of water during workout.
*
Creatine provides the necessary energy for your muscles to contract (like ATP). Naturally when your muscles work, it creates head, the body sweats to dissipate heat. One of the side effect of taking too much creatine (i.e. more than what the body needs) for a prolonged period makes your body intolerant of heat (a.k.a you will sweat a lot more). Not a good thing.
4Rings
post Apr 10 2008, 06:34 AM

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Creatine doesn't work for everyone. There are some who don't feel any effects at all.
I have 2 friends suffered from heart palpitation after taking creatine even on low dosage.

jswong
post Apr 10 2008, 02:01 PM

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Sometimes it's also due to the creatine quality. I tried E-Excel's creatine and I hardly feel anything. But when I used GNC's pure creatine, I got pumped easily midway through my workouts and I get the benefits of creatine - longer sets and heavier poundages. More fuel for anaerobic activity.

I've also tried Twinlabs' creatine loading drink, that has creatine together with some glucose and sucrose sources to trigger an insulin spike for increased creatine uptake. It works too but you need massive scoops for that, so it gets expensive pretty quickly.. and all those calories from the sugars will need to be gotten rid of too.

I've tried creatine serum, which is creatine suspended in some ester or some shit. Doesn't work, and it costs almost 300 bucks for a small bottle. What a waste of money.

I've also tried creatine ethyl ester, and it works pretty well. Not sure if others who have tried CEE experienced this, but despite regular water intake during workouts, I tend to pee less with CEE than with regular CM. Maybe it's more effective at transporting water into muscles compared to CM, I dunno.

 

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