I could not sleep and decided to surf around a bit and now I regret that decision a little. I feel compelled to add a few more cents of my thoughts in.

Philosophy does not exist in a vacuum. Philosophy is heavily influenced by political climate. You make it sound as if Western culture and thinking is synonymous with "liberty". I fear that you have not only not studied history enough, you have also not observed current affairs nor developed the ability to look beyond the veil and glamor of things: the things people tell you in order to make you "believe".

One very important aspect of Chinese thinking and philosophy has been about social justice and social order in order to create a type of "fair" treatment for all. This has been a cornerstone of almost all Chinese philosophy and thought: that the collective - the good of all - is more important than the individual. Do you find this objectionable?

Do you think that there are no parallel methods of thought along these lines in Western philosophy or social discourse?

What about America as standing for freedom and liberty? When America was founded, who did the Constitution truly liberate and empower, and who did it not? Your answer is that the minimum requirement to vote was to be a male who owned a certain amount of assets and landed property. The American War of Independence was not about freedom or liberty as has become the catchphrase. It was a rebellion started by merchants magnates and land barons to free themselves from English control. For the majority of the people who did the actual fighting, "liberty" did not really matter. What mattered was whether the leaders they threw their lot in with would win, and whether they would thus be rewarded for it.

Chinese thought and philosophy is not stagnant. It constantly evolves according to what is most relevant to the lives of people at the time.

The terminal decline of the Manchurian court and the impoverishment, physical and mental, of the people, led to various reform movements aiming to revolutionise and develop thought, started by a host of names like Kang Youwei and other people that the so-called English educated cannot name. (I will propose a reason why later)

When Sun Yat-Sen wrote and promoted his principles of the republic, it was a huge leap. It was a model of governance, a political philosophy unlike any other that had come before in China, catering specifically to the Chinese situation and realities. It was a model that sought to balance the horrendous imbalances that had occured over several hundreds of years that had in the end led to backwardness and stagnation. Is this philosophical thought? I think so. In order to be useful, philosophy must be relevant in some form, not a thing done for its own sake.

im also quite hard-headed

Quite sadly you have chosen to read my post as a personal attack on you or your values. It is not. I'm calling it out as I perceived it. I stated my perceptions and objections first in order to leave out any ambiguity as to where I stand or what I am thinking, before explaining why I think so. If it's too blunt, then I apologise because I do not know how to make that point tactfully without diluting it.

To answer the questions you've asked and to add to the points you've made:

1. If you presume that I would say that, then you really don't know me that well, or what my style is.

2. I did not begin to understand the things I am now writing about by my exposure to the "West". The seed of the understanding has always been my own inquisitive nature, my ability to perceive a lack of satisfactory explanation or a gap in knowledge, to see and hear things which are not there, and also to discern a true answer and explanation when I see, or hear one. I kept my eyes and my ears open, Deadlocks, because I was never really satisfied with any one answer. Even now, I am merely still just a student.

For what it's worth, from my own experiences and observations, "Western" people have their own culture of taboos and conformity that you abide by or suffer. They are different in details compared to the Chinese one... but the basic behavior and constraints are very much the same. They also result in pretty much the same broad consequences for society and the individual.

3. Your assertion that the Chinese never came up with the concept of existentialism is also quite dubious, in my opinion. I think that it's possible that there are existentialist philosophies and forms that permeate Chinese culture and thinking that the English educated are not able to discern, for the sole fact that we do not speak the language. I would be interested in continuing the debate on whether there is existentialism in Chinese culture and thought, but I shall have to brush up on my philosophy first - I first need to understand the meaning of the word "existentialism" as it is used as well as it's different forms and its developments (of which I am no expert in) - and I would like to debate it with anybody who's game for it in the Ph. D section... but that's not a priority on my list of things to do although I'm very interested in learning more.

Your assertion that Chinese culture is punitive and conformist again betrays your Malaysian Chinese roots. And like I have pointed out in my previous post, this culture is heavily dependent on the political realities as well as the conditions of our daily lives. To condense my point further, Chinese thinking is not monolithic in nature.

At various points in time Chinese have been feted and lauded even for saying and doing things that were considered unacceptable and taboo. Have you read Lu Xun's "True Story of Ah Q"? Have you read that article by Frank Chin that I posted? Are they not Chinese? The differences? The circumstances, the approach, the context, and the quality.

4. I have no idea why you support war or even why it's relevant to this discussion. I could make a guess at your psychological motivations, which is indeed my style, but that might be too impolite and I don't intend to make this thread personal. If you would permit me to speak my mind on this then I would do so though. However now that I think about it, it would be a bit personal and would add no value to the discussion. 

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Added on August 26, 2009, 4:26 am

I'm not sure what you understand from what I have said or if you've even understood anything at all, and I'm really not sure what point you are trying to make with this one. Your rebuttal is a bit strange. I'm sorry I do not get what you mean. Care to explain how your one liner relates to what I have actually said?

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Added on August 26, 2009, 4:40 am

My second point (or is it third now? I can't remember because I was sidetracked +_+' ) is more of a refutation.

You seem to be saying that Chinese thought and philosophy is inferior to the Western one. On what basis do you make that claim?

On the number of Chinese philosophers operating today?

How many contemporary "Western" philosophers do you know of?

You have also been very insistent on using phrases like "Oriental" and "Communist", and I believe you know full well the deragotary meanings and history behind the abuse of such words. You must certainly know what an Orientalist world view is and how it exoticises and fetishises Asian people and culture into a pastiche.

Is this more reflective of your own outcast status and being rejected by your own people, and thus motivated by a need to get some form of revenge?

Your assertion that English is the language of intelligence is also quite strange. Language is a medium of communication and exchange of ideas.

If you have not been able to receive any ideas from the Chinese point of view when many prominent individuals have been able to do so, then perhaps the defect is in your own ability rather than the language or the thoughts, which you are not able to perceive and understand anyway.

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Added on August 26, 2009, 4:50 am

My post there was more like an addition to my previous one. In the one before that, I have already stated that I believe Malaysian Chinese exist in a climate unique to themselves and no other Chinese populations.

I am not sure what purpose this thread is supposed to achieve. I have mostly observed the free-form nature of this discussion. I thought that I should add a few of my own cents to assertions made that seem over-simplified and dubious in nature.

I have a point or two more to address the themes of argument in Deadlock's post but I honestly cannot remember what they are now already.

Aiyo, you wanna start it again?

Ok what's my roots?

Why not I say. I'm not interested in a Darwin Theory. Does that answer your question. 

Still not interested. Thanks

I'm proud of my banana-ism that allows all women to speak the same language with me

What language do you think in? 

If you notice carefully, there are FEW forumers in CC here (English Ed as they claim they are) having such a poor attitude, which do not know a simple social skill - Respect.

There's no one robbing anyone's belongings, why are they not respecting each other?

because based on certain criterias, the person may not respect the other simply because they deem that person not worthy of respect.

I had chinese ed in primary school and then english ed in secondary school which enables me to mix around with both groups. Indeed chinese ed and english ed are quite different.

From what I see, MOST chinese eds are more emotional, have limited social circle (they are very tied to their own group), a lil childish and MANY are lala-ish. The eng eds are very outgoing, loud, cheerful, more 'chic' and they social/ joke around more (including with teachers).

Oh and one more thing I noticed in FB/ friendster about chinese eds is that you can usually only see their zoomed-in faces(and thier fingers maybe) in their photos and most of the photos are photoshop-ed with all kinds of bubbly/ blurred/ dreamy effects and chinese writings.

The diff is obvious when you compare those in PJ shopping malls and those in Sg Wang/ Times Square area.. The PJ ones are usually categorised as eng ed while the Sg Wang ones are more to chinese ed.

For me, I do prefer mixing with the English eds simply because I feel more comfortable with them

Edit: typo.

I dunno is it just me but I find that english ed girl normally will go oversea rather than chinese ed that study locally. Not too sure on this but just my observation on my friends.

On the other hand, does not seem to be entirely their fault either.

A while back, I went out for drinks with a bunch of Indians.

It made me realize something intrinsic in the Chinese mentality. And it's not even unique to Malaysian Chinese.

I'm still gathering my thoughts on it.

dayum, this is pure win! Often, I see this in my friends.