All,

Looking for opinions on sending Children to Chinese HS versus National HS

1) Children will go to USA for college after HS/SPM. So, proficiency in Malay is irrelevant.

2) Very strong foundation in English. So, proficiency in English is not a problem.

So far, what I found

A) National HS -> No meritocracy and too much Islamication.

B) National HS -> Lazy and incompetent teachers

Only good National HS are

1) Mara HS which my children will not get in and don't bother

2) Kolej Islam -> forget it.

Dreamer

Quite blur on what you are asking ..... Are you mean Chinese Independent school as Chinese HS and National HS as government secondary school ?

Anyway, if compare both, Chinese school is better if your son/daughter know some basic Chinese words and have attend some sci/math in chinese (But if you are attending Independent school in east Malaysia, eg, Sabah, they will use fully english in both sci/math)

which "kolej islam" are you talking about?

right, since you know your children will not get into MARA schools, and you have listed down cons to regular SMK, then go ahead and enrol them into chinese schools. or better yet, send them to private/international schools since their tertiary studies will be in the states. but in my personal opinion, you just cant beat the fun environment you get from normal SMK. it mixes all races together and teaches kids to get along. but since you only care bout quality and standard of teaching alone, then perhaps you should not consider normal SMK.

Not very clear on what are you talking about...
Can you explain more briefly??
thanks..

chen9wei,

<<Are you mean Chinese Independent school as Chinese HS and National HS as government secondary school ?>>

Yes.

Dreamer

lol basically u already decided to send ur children to chinese hs

High school ?!
You don't actually need to choose a good high school for your kid. As long as you get a normal high school can already. But of course, a popular one that has good high average score graduates will be a plus!

SBPs (boarding schools) are closely monitored by the MOE. They have good facilities and the students are among the brightest ones. Your children will be in a very conducive environment.

meaj,

Give some example of what schools that you refer to. As far as I know, their quality has went down to hell too.

Dreamer

you can try to enter foon yew high in JB. but where's your location?
hmm...what can i say abt their students? BRILLIANT! (maybe just the ones i met)
my housemate n roommate were from foon yew. superbly good in maths.
but BM n english not really good...anyway, since u stated that BM n english is ok...
so u might as well just enter foon yew.

or maybe u can enter chung ling high in penang or chung hua(or izit hwa?) all these not bad.
got friends from all these schools...and all are very good...(maybe chung ling fellas a lil lansi )

with current China as next giant economy, who is so stupid to send their child to national school?

lol...u've already made ur decision...why bother to open this thread? to confirm your decision is the right one?

The title of the thread was about >>>



This post has been edited by Benjamin911: Feb 20 2008, 04:28 PM

i do agree with drreamer101 at certain point

i`m from partially national high school; it seem tat our govt tend to intro more so called rubbish education in it rather than building strong human capital as such improve their English, Sci and Math and building a good skills for industry.

basically; the root of our education system need to be clean up and be prepare for more global world

This is a thinly veiled attempt to bash national schools. Sadly, it's not entirely unjustified.

WillHung,

I graduated from SMK school. It was very good. So, this is not an attempt to bash national school. But, things has been going down hill for the past 20+ years.

If at all possible, I would prefer not to send my children to Chinese Independent High School. The pressure is TOO MUCH. But, our national high schools are SO BAD that the teachers refuse to teach most of the time. I heard story where the teacher come to class and said I do not have to teach anyhow since most of the students are in tuition classes.

Remember, I am in Klang valley. So, you could imagine how bad things could be in the rural area.

Dreamer

I come from an SMK school, but attended a former Chinese (SMJK) school for my Form 6 where most of the students attended Chinese primary schools.

Now, I'm a normal guy who does decently (say, top 10 in class) in school but likes to have his fun as well. I did not enjoy my time in the ex-Chinese skl at all. Yes, teachers were dedicated and the students were studious. Unfortunately however, the average chinese skl educated person also seems to be on the shy introverted side, lacking the ability to socialize with people easily. Many of them also seem to have very little interest beyond studying (and maybe some HK pop stars). You are not going to get many flamboyant people here, the type who likes to give speeches or confident presentations in front of the class. It was just too subdued for my liking. The main advantage of attending a chinese school would be for picking up the Mandarin language. I personally feel that the most anyone should endure in a Chinese school is a few years in primary school. Those places just suck the fun out of childhood imo.

Yes, the standard of teaching in SMK schools is pretty rubbish in general, but at least the people there are more fun (and varied) which I think makes a person more sociable. The SPM is not that tough, and a motivated student can self study well enough (I did it).

If you are going to send your kids to the US, just make them sit for the SPM and the SATs. And I'd like to apologize in advance if my opinions are unintentionally offensive to some.

This post has been edited by BurgaFlippinMan: Feb 21 2008, 11:18 AM

International HS?

IMHO (from my own observation, take it with a pint of salt. No offence to Chinese HS grads ^^)
Chinese HS tend to produce overly studios, introverted and shy students who lacks critical thinking and communication skills. The only good thing is learning Mandarin. The system is very rigid and allows very little development of soft skills. Chinese HS also tend to have this 'blend in with majority' mindset and rarely appreciate individuals with different mindset than the majority. You are not encouraged to break out of the circles.

National HS is crappy too but at the very least, there's more chance for social interactions (Chinese HS focused way too much on academic) through school activities where you can learn to build up social skills and leaderships. Of course, there's still some good schools around but you have to really look for it.

IMHO if your kid is an independent student, National HS, albeit having crappy teachers shouldn't impend his own will to study.

This post has been edited by feyhime: Feb 21 2008, 11:07 AM

Have you considered the traditional mission schools (the one where the church still has a degree of voice in it as compared to those who have turned into SMKs and the church has stopped being the patron or administrator the school)? I am a product of such a school and I can say that if I had a choice to choose where to study, I'd go there again. And if I have a child, such schools will be my first choice to consider before I explore other options.

There's just a different atmosphere in such schools - traditions of excellence, discipline and holism (as in holistic (whole), not holy). There was another observation I made also, was that the command of English for all students were good regardless of whether they were in the top class or the bottom-most class. Everyone could at least speak decent English. So that takes some worry about English away.

Do bear in mind that these sort of traditional mission schools are getting rare though. A lot of mission schools now are mission school in name and not in tradition/administration. So scout around well. I'm not sure about those in Klang Valley but I guess you can start with taking note of the famous ones and asking around about their current state of affairs and quality.

Edit: for clarity.

This post has been edited by djspinnet: Feb 21 2008, 11:40 AM

students from chinese high schools are very very good in maths..... haha

---

Added on February 21, 2008, 1:07 pmi totally agree. I was in chinese school before i transferred to smk and i realised the difference. However, the SMk i was in is one of best school in the area. There are many chinese, very competitive, more or less the same as chinese school but MORE ALIVE.

This post has been edited by ychien89: Feb 21 2008, 01:07 PM

I agree. I attended one of those schools way back when I was in Form One and its still my favorite one. My Form Six school was similar, except it was turned into an SMJK so yea...

Stop streotyping Chinese Independent High School students as shy and introvert. Not all are that.
Personally, I'm from Chong Hwa Independent High School from KL. I think it's quite a good school. But the standards now isn't as good as the older days. Students are quite good in public speeches and isn't shy at all. We also have our own social life. We are not as 'boring' as some people say.
Our language proficiency is also quite good. Take me for example. Hehe. I'm proficient in 3 languages, namely Mandrin, English and BM.
If you intend to send your children to Singapore, China or even Taiwan, send them to Chinese Independent High School.
Contrary to popular beliefs, we don't really have a lot of pressure. We don't have much homework too. The only thing that we have a lot is exams. However, many teachers are dedicated in their teaching. So, getting good results isn't that tough anyway. And we don't really stereotype students as good or bad. I bet even some students from our so called last class can beat some national school students.

Just my two cents.
Sorry if I offended anyone.

I have a question here. Don't you guys feel that people from Chinese schools sumtimes find it a bit hard to communicate with those from SMK schools? The reason I ask this question is that I am from SJK© and national type chinese SMK school, and I found out it's a bit hard to talk to SMK students in college. I also realized that the topic we chat about is quite different. And maybe the jokes we talk are also different from each other? Anyone who have the same situation as me?

jianee89,

Most of the recent batch of high school graduates are very bad in English period. We, (the uncle and aunties) had sponsored many of our nephews and nieces to USA for undergraduate study over the past 10+ years. Their English proficiency are getting worse.

In my time, our English were good enough to go straight into college in USA. Now, most of our nephews and nieces had to spend one year in intensive English classes because their TOEFL is not good enough.

Dreamer

P.S.: Recently, for my daughter, in her standard 5 English class, she actually got the right answer as opposed to her English teacher. Her English teacher do not know enough English (did not read enough English books) to know that he/she was wrong.


This post has been edited by dreamer101: Feb 24 2008, 11:55 AM

Sorry to say that your statement doesn't paint the true picture of what is happening in CIHS (or rather CHKL in this case).

Language proficiency for example, yes I don't deny the fact that there are quite a handful of students who are good in all three languages, but I would say majority of them are only good in either 1 or 2 of the 3 languages. No offence though as myself is a good example, I don't claim to be proficient in English or BM, but at least I have above average standards compared to my peers. However, Mandarin for example, was never my forte. On a side note, I would say that the English proficiency level in CHKL (at least during my time) is no where near good for the majority of the students unless he/she comes from an English speaking background.

Pressure on the other hand, depends on individuals. Saying that students there don't really have a lot of pressure is definitely not a true reflection. Back in my time, there was hardly a day where I don't have to hand in any homework at all. Exams I agree with you, but it seems they have made changes to that recently, or so I heard.
Depends on what you define as good, getting an average of 75 and above is not really that easy as it might sound.

*p/s: I left school in 2005 so I'm merely talking based on my experience though it may be outdated in current context. And no offence to you whatsoever.

This post has been edited by jae: Feb 24 2008, 12:43 PM

I beg to differ, for a lot of statements made by different people above. Whether an individual is introvert, that's more like a personal issue (undeniably however, environment could be one of the contributing factors) than for it to be stereotype-able due to school type. I am one of the highly extrovert people in my office, where only 2 employees (out of 30 plus) are having Chinese independent high school background.

I'm from CHKL and have left the school for about 6 years. I have met different people from different backgrounds throughout these years -- college, university, community, public and social events, and my justification above sounds always. That's why I CAN'T convince myself to agree at all.

This post has been edited by yclian: Mar 2 2008, 12:54 AM

i would prefer SMJK Yu Hua, Kajang........ this school never let me feel regret, still miss it until today

this school is well known for its Chinese Traditional culture activities, as well as it also still have the Government typed SMK activities......

so basically, it seems like a combination of Independent Chinese High School & Government typed SMK

You generalize too much. Not everyone goes to the States or overseas to study. Even if they do, there's a necessity to be proficient in Malay if they intend to work here. Personally, i find government schools better compared to a Chinese school anytime. Studies aside, who would want to bring up a child in a competitive environment more or less one considered recluse from the public? I find most Chinese school goers to be stiffs and held back compared to one that's been to a school where everyone from everywhere convenes. In a government school, there's no such thing as Islamification even if you say it does. I've been to one and i'm not in any way Islamified or have a spot for Muslims. A government school is equivalent of learning by error. Although i must say, there are SOME terrible teachers but not ALL of them are that terrible at teaching. Going to high school isn't about getting the highest grades or becoming the perfect child. It's about learning the good life.

If you're too scared of Islamification or your kid being such a retard, send him/her to a private school. Or better still, international school.

students from Chinese Independent High School are 100% cannot enter Local Public Universities

perhaps they are too brilliant?




This post has been edited by marine88: Aug 11 2008, 01:02 AM

perhaps bcoz they didnt take STPM?


duh...

Yes. Matter of fact i have a very harsh/stereotypic statement here too. I find that most chinese educated ppl have very different mindset. Our jokes are different. Our style of speech is different. Mentality is different.
Sorry to say, but i felt most of the chinese educated ppl i know here are rather TCSS (talk cock sing song) people who'll talk and criticise alot, but no actions taken.

Geez that just Malaysian's attitudes isn't it?

sorry to disappoint u there're alot here. Only ppl like me very less here....

Note: There're chinese educated ppl who're not like wat i stated above yo. Chill

kean89,

<<You generalize too much. Not everyone goes to the States or overseas to study. >>

1) Heh, this is my thread. I am VERY SPECIFIC about my question. I am not talking about everyone.

<<Even if they do, there's a necessity to be proficient in Malay if they intend to work here.>>

2) Have you started working yet?? Do you have any kind of working experience. Due to 90+% companies and bumi only contract and so on, as a non-Malay, my children can forget about finding a job in those places. I had worked in Malaysia before. From my own actual working experience, there is little commercial usage of Malays.

<< there's no such thing as Islamification even if you say it does. I've been to one and i'm not in any way Islamified or have a spot for Muslims. >>

3) Which SMK school did you went to??

<<A government school is equivalent of learning by error. Although i must say, there are SOME terrible teachers but not ALL of them are that terrible at teaching. >>

4) The BADs outnumber the good one.

By the way, I graduated from SMK school. So, it pain me to say that my children should not go to SMK school. But, I just cannot see enough goods in SMK to outnumber the BAD.

Dreamer

So what school should Wesley's Methodist be categorized in? It's situated in Sentul. AFAIK the reputation of that school is really good and almost all of them have a good command in English. The only drawback is the fees tho. It's a pain in ass.

Just send your child to private Chinese HS.

It's the best option you'll never regret.To hell with our local education system.

Malay language important?Have you tried applying for jobs in MNCs in Malaysia before?

Almost no one would ever look at Malay language requirement and our present government just don't have the guts to question them.If they dare voice out, the MNCs would just tell them straight in the face, accept it or I'll just leave for some other country to set up my operations.

I'm also a product of SMK with a first class Aussie degree.But till late, no chance of getting a job in Malaysia.

With the lists of many MNCs I applied for jobs in Malaysia, many are racially inclined when hiring.

You've got chinese MNCs would prefer ONLY chinese, MNCs with majority indians working in it only favoring indians, GLCs prefer Malays to hold top posts regardless of qualifications/capabilities.

Try entering into one to work which is dominated specifically by another race, you won't last and it's going to be suicide.

I'm a Chinese FYI with very weak education background in Mandarin.Even so, I still find being sidelined by the my own race sometimes when it comes to opportunities.

So where do you think people like me stand?

Give your child the best, send your child to private Chinese HS.
You'll never need to worry about tuition classes, mixing with the wrong bunch of friends, unfair treatment, further education opportunities and even doubt it's standards both in teaching and syllabus.

hmm to me whichever school makes no difference..language competency in any language can always be mastered..and well there is no islamization of non muslims la in SMK's...im from a smk too..had a wonderful school experience with friends of different races..but then if u want better quality of education i suggest private schools, chinese schools or missionary schools..n well about oppurtunity in getting into government uni, GLC's or MNC's , it doenst really make a difference from where u studied or graduated..its rather a race thing..

The best choice to educate a child from young IMHO would be sending him/her to a Chinese primary and then an English speaking school for secondary. Afterall, English is the main language we are all concern about. Not to offend any CIHS students but like what someone has said above, majority of the students from Chinese schools can barely communicate in English. I've got a friend from CIHS who can write really good English having difficulties to speak with it. This is due to the lack of English usage in CIHS but from my experiences, I've seen people who were weak at English during chinese primary are able to improve their English a lot after getting into English speaking schools. Are they any weaker in Mandarin than those who are from CIHS? No, they don't have a single difficulties speaking Mandarin at all even after they get into English schools and yet you can see them being able to read a chinese newspaper. Are they better in English than those from CIHS? Yes, they can definitely speak better English. Bear in mind that sending your children to English schools do not mean that they will turn into "bananas". The most important thing is that you HAVE TO send them to Chinese primary for basic chinese education which is more than enough to be able to communicate with anyone in the world in mandarin. English schools or not you can decide later when they finish their primary education.

If I were you I would definitely send my children to Chinese primary first and then English speaking schools for their secondary education.

Look at these countries, they are more advance than us. Tell me what language or mother tongue they use besides English.

- Korea
- Japan
- China
- France
- Germany
- Switzerland

Don't forget, Vietnam, India, Indonesia are catching up.

My dad and many of his friends have been working with multinational companies in places like Hong Kong, Taiwan and China.They got good offer because they are bilingual.

My mum is teaching Mandarin to a group of non-Chinese children from Sekolah Kebangsaan.

I went to Chinese primary school then SMK, doing Canadian Pre-U now. I am able to communicate with my Canadian lecturers and other international students,no problem at all.

Come on, it is year 2008, NOT Tanah Jajahan Orang British of 1958. The Americans or European won't look down on Chinese if he/she can't speak fluent English, but they would give you a funny look if you told them "I don't speak Mandarin, I only understand English". It is true, my mum used to work in Swiss company and my dad is working in a British company. Their colleagues(local Chinese) were embarrassed when they couldn't interpret a simple Chinese sentence as requested by Mat Salleh.

I read all the threads here and I find most of the comments are actually 50-50 on the pros and cons of both of the educational systems.

Each and everyone of u are actually commenting based on their educational experiences and rather missed out that "you only studied on that particular time and place". Meaning that u're actually generalising educations based on his/her experience.

So in my oppinion, it doensn't matter which HS u send ur child to(At least the school you have chosen is not the worst). The problem is encouraging ur child to study on their own without being too dependent on teachers.

Yes teacher's are quite important in education here but if they just depend on teacher's teaching and then blames on the school because of incompetency of delivering education is not rational at all.

As have been said"We have been blaming on Governments and media for our child's misbehaviour but never once we blame on ourselves".

However, it is important to note too that environment also plays an important role besides parent's education. So, 2 of these HS have their pros and cons depends on which type of school. Nothing is perfect.

Note: I am from SMK, and what some of u said are damn true about this "I can't get along with Chinese educated ppl".
Most of them talk cock compared to most English Educated ppl I know. English educated ppl are more mature then them(based on my experience, sorry if I have offended anyone here. Would like to hear from ur experiences too)

Their topics are also quite immature..prefers to talk colk and entertainment stuff,...pop singer and bla bla which I think it's total crap. Besides, they don't like speaking english. Not only me, I and my friend(from SMK) too find difficulties in mixing with them,..end up only 2 of us in the class.

This post has been edited by Winston LYN: Aug 11 2008, 02:18 PM

For some of us it wasn't our choice not to take up Chinese during my schooling years.Our education routes were determined by our parents based on convenience, availability and decisions.Isn't it discriminatory to blame us for something which we had no control over it?

Just like how they hated the Japanese for their past history/ancestors when today many have no idea of what their history is like.

This post has been edited by ark890: Aug 11 2008, 03:00 PM

ofcourse, what u say is true.

but lets look at the context of the discussion in this thread. dreamer is practically trying to make the decision on behalf of his (her?) relative based on his experience. we're talking about influencing the development of a person here. we cant blame anyone here for studying at his or her school (as it was decided by the parents), but we can certainly be responsible for deciding the life of others.

I pity you for not knowing the real situation just because you don't understand Chinese language and thought Chinese educated people are immature. That's why you and your friend end up as "ONLY TWO OF YOU IN THE CLASS". Spend some money if you can afford, visit Europe, Australia, Taiwan, Hong Kong, Korea, China etc, before making any baseless comparison. Have you ever done self examination: why you can't mix with them?

Hey, I thought only those retired uncles and aunties or those people during my grandparents generation would have high regards on English educated people, that was 20-30 years ago. It was because they could easily get a job in government departments if they understood English then.Therefore, these old people were proud and arrogant. But, dulu lain, sekarang lain.

Well, I don't know where you stay.For your information, nowadays most of the Chinese parents in KL/Selangor are sending their children to Chinese primary schools, and quite a number of these parents are English educated. They are aware of the importance of learning both Chinese and English language. There are about 10% of non-Chinese pupils in Chinese school. Are they immature?

i think S.M.J.K schools is the best, since it combines both SMK & Chinese Independent High School cultures with almost ratio 50 : 50

SMJK schools FTW, pls correct me if i am wrong





This post has been edited by marine88: Aug 12 2008, 11:10 PM

I went to Chinese primary school then SMK, doing Canadian Pre-U now. I am able to communicate with my Canadian lecturers and other international students,no problem at all.

Could it be those lecturers are trained to deal with ESL students??? Also you are fee paying student isn't it??? Care to let us know what is the approx per year fee you are paying?? Money talks isn't it eh???

---

Added on August 11, 2008, 10:24 pm

Hey, I thought only those retired uncles and aunties or those people during my grandparents generation would have high regards on English educated people, that was 20-30 years ago. It was because they could easily get a job in government departments if they understood English then.Therefore, these old people were proud and arrogant. But, dulu lain, sekarang lain.

Ark890 is right when he said people don't know their own history. Do you know your own country history, esp the Emergency and post Emergency era. Who supported the commies??? What was the repercussion if caught supporting the commies or been seen as a fifth column supporter?? Spend some times talking to those (in your own words proud and arrogrant ) uncles and aunties about the past

This post has been edited by segamatboy: Aug 11 2008, 10:24 PM

beats me thought, why not recognise?.......when almost other every advanced country in the world does....

IPTAs only recognizes STPM, matrics and diploma. they dont even recognize A-levels, except for international students.

any ideas what do chinese schools take, if they do not take STPM?

they do take UEC which is equivalent to STPM as well as A-level........

btw, i dun think Chinese High School students will take STPM, but instead they will choose either UEC or A-level......

sometimes i kinda dislike IPTA, they simpy don't recognise this & that........


P/S: STPM, A-level, UEC are far more better than Local Matriculation

Geez i'm having the same thing too. U can imagine the look on my face when:
1. They told me of the Edison Chen's issue.
2. They dunno when was the GE.

Which both occured relatively close to each other.

Wat set apart in the education is not about the language, rather is the mindset. A typical Chinese mindset; everything is obstacle. Cannot do wan. Sure got problem wan. Sure will fail wan.

Again another Chinese Educated ppl here bashin me...I have already put in my comments "I am making oppinions based on MY EXPERIENCE" , so I am not generalising ALL of the Chinese Educated ppl. Maybe I am the unluck one who have seen those compared to the time when I was in NS I actually met one who was really on par on my mindset compared to those I've met in Secondary school and now.

I have already examined why I can't mix with them for ur info. Please read my comment carefully before being so angry on my thread.

And sorry if I have really offended you. FYI, I have already made visits to those countries u hv mentioned.

Eh myky44, are u having the same problem as I am having now? Geez,...these ppl really knows nothing on the RWIs...pity them.

CHS and SMK is both smae, depnds on the school and the student itself.

Many SMK student just know smoking, playing games days n night, but some get into Harvard.
CHS also got student represent uni in world chinese debate recently.But produce some gangster as well...
I mixed with both but just find that SMk student especially those can not speak Mandarin is more materialistic ...again..base on my experience with about 30 non mandarin speaking chinese...a rather small population

This post has been edited by chgchksg128: Aug 12 2008, 10:31 PM

btw, why no one here discuss about SMJK schools???

Oh ,you have visited those countries, great! Would you mind sharing your experience with all of us here how was it when you were in Taiwan, Hong Kong and China? Have you talked to the people there? They are almost 100% Chinese educated.

Thanks for sharing.

---

Added on August 12, 2008, 11:44 pmGosh, it will be a never ending argument here. We have CHINESE of different backgrounds in such a small country. Like the saying goes - "the Chinese are just like loose sand"!

Take a look what we have in Malaysia:

(1) Half Chinese, the Baba & Nyonya
(2) Chinese educated Chinese (further devided into various type/stream of schools)
(3) English educated Chinese (older generation,when there were real English schools in existence)
(4) Sekolah Kebangsaan educated Chinese (1970s until now)
(5) Chinese in private schools (Sri KL & Sri Garden for example)
(6) Chinese in international schools
(7) The Yellow "Englishmen", some call them "banana"
(8) others (?)

WHAT ARE WE?

Let's be the laughing-stock of people from other countries.

"NO EYE SEE".

This post has been edited by wsf: Aug 12 2008, 11:44 PM

you are wrong, dude~~~~~

UEC is neither equivalent to STPM nor Alevel
UEC only equivalent with Australia year 12 or Taiwan pre-U examination

ppl "misequal" UEC with STPM or Alevel because
1. UEC is one of the pre-U program
2. UEC Maths1 is equivalent with STPM(the only subject that i think is really equivalent)

i disagree UEC is equivalent to STPM/Alvl
1. the full mark all subject paper only 100marks(1 point 1 mark) while Alvl/Aus paper normally hv at least 250 marks. Can u imagine how little the questions of UEC cover the entire UEC syllabus.
2. since UEC exam cannot cover the entire syllabus, student only require to do the selected question only, like 6 out of 12. In other way, u CAN skip some of the difficult topic during ur final exam
3. area of cover is not as large as STPM/Alvl, u will notice when u compare their test book
4. UEC dont hv practical tests or experimental skill questions(cant blame them also, no money mah). This is the biggest weaknesses
5. YUP, i really admit UEC maths exam tough in calculation, logical thinking, tough calculus, tough trigo....... and almost all is tough pure maths lvl. SO, all are calculation, there dont hv any idea in application. Like, wat is the purpose of matric? wat is the purpose of gausion effect?
6. YUP, UEC phys and chems not bad too, but the problem still same, most of the marks of UEC exam is to calculate V=IR, pascal........ still calculation... =.=
where is the daily application concept...
and where is the extended essay
7. Some of the Aus Uni recognize UEC because they want u to come to their country and pay OZ tuition fee to them
Singapore recognize UEC because they want to suck all malaysia talented ppl to their country
Taiwan and China? same laaa


but, UEC definitely can beat matrikulasi malaysia
for STPM or Alvl, stop dreamming la

This post has been edited by Oakha: Aug 12 2008, 11:46 PM

Dude...I speak Cantonese at home and Chinese to my chinese friends. You really think i am a banana? The sad fact is that I can't write in Chinese that's all. I have no problems at all asking for direction in Hong Kong, ordering Food and buying stuff. Yep they're 100% Chinese educated but I have no prejudice on Chinese Educated students.

It seems u have much prejudice on us...

WELL, WELL, WELL, NOW YOU SOUND DIFFERENT FROM YOUR EARLIER STATEMENT.................

GOODNIGHT AND BYE !

haha, i hate pure calculations...... seems like they wanna transform our human brain to Digital Calculator, lol......

with standard daily applications, it will be more useful........

P/S: calculation = talk cock only
application = action based on knowledges

This post has been edited by marine88: Aug 13 2008, 12:46 AM

How i wanna hug u right now and how i hope u're in UTM so i can ask u to join my debate club
Same background like me and goes to RWI! Wat more could i ask for?

Spoiler'd cos too long.
Look dude, as for me, i didn't say the problem was pro-created due to Chinese Educa-schyun. It's more of their mind set. Granted, students in Chi Ed have almost a phase reversal (that's 180 degrees) when it comes to mentality.
So as to simplify for u so that u understand me better:
1. The problem is NOT about CHINESE Education. It's the MENTALITY.

Gents

1) I will send my kids to Chinese school or whichever school that offers the most language learning opportunity.

I graduated from Chinese Ed school and I am now working in the UK. One of the edge that got me my job is because I know Mandarin.

It's a globalised world now, whoever speaks/understands/writes the most languages wins first quarter of the game.

2) I never even bothered about any current issues or read any books until I turned 20 years old. So?

This doesn't make me any smarter or any worst than people who do or don't. It's their own life, their own choice and it doesn't concern you.

It only makes you a hypocrite when you start saying things like "pity" them.

3) Lastly, don't forget, regardless of your background or where you come from, you put on your pants the same way as everyone else each morning. Use that as your measuring stick.

This post has been edited by Geminist: Aug 13 2008, 01:32 AM

i think u guys never heard b4 or even know there is a kind of S.M.J.K schools in our beloved Malaysia..........

As much as you love S.M.J.K schools, you DONT have to put it in font size 200 and in red (and green) y'know.

My stand is still as such: I have nothing against learning Mandarin (or any other language for that matter) AS A LANGUAGE, NOT as a medium of instruction. Yes, China may be rising and all, but for the forseable future, most Malaysians will send their children to English speaking countries for higher education, not Mandarin speaking countries.

And if China/Hong Kong/Taiwan is as good as wsf makes it to be, explain to me then, why in Chinese language vernacular schools, most, if not all of them are Taiwan graduates. I thought this was "Kalau tidak suka, kamu keluar" land.

I think the thread starter has already made the choice. If there's already a smidge of pre-bias, there's not much reason the discussion should go on. But i'll humour it anyways.

I came out of CHID after 2 years there, damn i didn't like the place, but of course being a lazy ******* didn't help, i hated going to school on saturday and i thought it was akin to sucking cocks. I personally don't like Mandarin, and believe it's only marginally useful. I spent most of my time in school there sitting in the library reading english books.

I believe the generalization of abhorrently bad english and introversion is a valid stereotype. Hell, most end up going to TARC (no offense to em of course), or Taiwan/China. The little who get out to other places have problems especially with language and communication, especially with reasoning based subjects. Yes, Yes, China rising fast, but remember you merely converse/read/write in Mandarin, you don't need to learn the whole extra bits of the language do you? Plus if you ask me, it's a tad bit overrated. For all China is, i still see them as a production hub rather than one of ideas.

At the end of the day you send your kids to Ind Chinese schools for culture sake above all in my opinion, because praticality wise it's just an extreme opposite of the normal shit national school system. On on hand sending them to your typical shit national school and they'll be idiots, send them to your typical chinese school and you'll get social idiots. All the chinese ed kids here in Australia here just hang out with their own gang, and you can see from a mile away that won't socialize with others that don't do mandarin, same with the very monocultural japanese. Even the Malays here are far more flexible with their social circle, muslim or not muslim.

End point, send your kids to somewhere more multicultural and open lah, although somewhere with a good emphasis on work ethic and study attitude.

Me? I'd just ship them off to military school or something.

i think if ur child is not originally hardworking and has the heart to inprove contantly and with diciplin, sending him or her to chinese high school will bring very very BAD outcomes

cuz chinese HS, the good are the BEST, but the bad are the HOPELESS.

i mean the way they conduct the class there, they will concerntrate on the first few classes and ignore the last classes. And u will always have to compeate to get into first few class. The points are no longer round number, but in 2 digit DECIMALS.


This post has been edited by kanzakicyn: Aug 13 2008, 02:58 PM

Haiya...What most people said here is damn true. The countries that we are sending our children would be NZ, Australia, Amerika, UK, Ireland and many many English countries. And these are the countries that are very much developed and even Chinese speaking countries looking forward of hiring these graduates....

Well u are kind of stereotyping every SMK and Chinese HS products...not all of the outcomes are of that kind. Hehe it's just based on ur oppinion yo.

Me pulak....already explained in the previous post. oh hey Myk44 u are in IPTA now is it?

Gosh.....
Obviously i'm not from Chinese School, so i dunno of the system. I shall refrain from commenting in this of cos.

Yeah, in UTM now. I have no problem with them chinese dudes/doodads, just that sometimes their mentality totally pawn the crap outta me

On a last note though, all though my english is slightly above average level, i'm not exactly proud that i dunno how to read/write in Chinese. Given the chance, i'd really go learn.
I'm doing my best now to learn Mandarin. And yeah, it has improved significantly since i entered Uni.



This post has been edited by MyKy44: Aug 13 2008, 11:04 PM

Dreamer,
I think it is better for you to send your child to Chinese HS, as all the system are controlled, no bias on Chinese vs Malay results, no superiority for bumiputera, no "so-called" sistem kota( sound like that) to put 50% malay and 50% chinese + indian in 1 class..

The most important , Chinese HS stress on the performances of the student in every single subject (malay perhaps is not in the list)..

**p/s: students from Chinese HS have good command in English, Chinese and Mathematics is definitely their best subject.

Recommendation : Chung Hwa Independant High in Titiwangsa

Hmm I just graduated from A SMK school not very long ago. And I reckoned its the best time of my life, the education system was still alright.

I'm not particularly sure about the Koata system or whatever, because in my class there's only 2-3 malays but I forget to mention that my class was the so called "best class"

ccm123,

Name your school or part of the country. East Malaysia has the protection of immigration law and geography. Most of the worst and lousiest teachers do not want to work there. Klang valley has no such advantage.

Dreamer

A sign of the times, when everyone knows about the quota system, but no one can spell it, or be bothered to look up how to spell it, for that matter.

I'm not certain for secondary schools, but for SJK© primary schools, there is an unoffical quota for non-bumiputera's. For some history, this policy came in 1996, when my class, which up to that point was literary 100% ethnic Chinese, suddenly had 6 bumiputera (I don't use the word Malay, for the simple reason some of them were't) students.

Like everything else about Malaysia, the "quota" for bumiputera's in SJK© is opaque; no one knows the number. All we know, there are some non-ethnic-Chinese there that somehow come in.

That said, sometimes it is because their parents want them to learn Mandarin. Like it or not, this century will belong to China. We have already thrown out the advantage of a English speaking workforce in 1970; are we going to make the same mistake twice?

I beg to differ. As a forgotten East Malaysian, my personal experience is that some of the worst and most incompetent teachers are from the "west". Of course, pulling teeth is easier than getting them to cross the sea. And immigration law? Once the MyKad came out it convinently doubled as a passport to go to the eastern states (and Brunei).

Good command in english is definitely pushing it.

And CHID isn't in Titiwangsa either.

I am trying to write chinese using PINYIN after giving up on chinese characters. Is it the right way to go.

what Ts said is very true .. what we as non bumi dont really have the benefits of studying in SMK , some things i just dont understand ... like what Ts said, too much islamic , i strongly agree .. back in my high school, the pendidikan islam teacher teach me pendidikan moral , she keep adapting her muslim thingy into the syllabus and we all felt like it is really unfair for us .. we ended up complaining to headmaster but there is NO effect at all..

and for those people who apply for matriculation college and U .. it is just like ... it is darn hard for us non bumi ... unless u got straight As ... and even u got good result in STPM , ive my friend , who took engineering, architecture, business and the last choice environment science ... most of their last selection will be offered by the government U ..

is government purposely makes our life more miserable , i mean for those poor non bumi student?


in the future, i defenitely will send back my childs to chinese Hs, not SMK, not being racist, but for the GREATER GOOD. no offend

This post has been edited by MisterCrono: Dec 30 2008, 02:26 PM

agree.
Plus in SMK, non-bumi have to follow a silly rule. I think this only apply to my school. We must wait for them to finish their prayers before we are allowed to go home. Ha....I still find that's funny after I graduated.

I support this !!

"Chinese school got lot of PIBG support,but lack of support in National HS."-John Lennon

Look, I'm not trying to generalize, but I would like to know if any of the SMK-ed chinese had his Mandarin/[insert other dialect here] belittled by the chinese-ed chinese...

Throughout my whole secondary school life I experienced a lot of these:
"Explain to you for what? You also won't understand la...the chinese language is too hard for you..."
"Wah, you know how to read chinese one ah? I thought you can only read bla bla bla..."
"huh, you wanna join us at Red Box karaoke? You can sing chinese songs meh?"

I may be SMK-ed, but at least I can read some simple chinese characters...probably better than some of my SMK-ed peers...geez...

Another thing that I noticed was my chinese-ed friends, whether during my secondary schools years or in the university, LOVES entertainment news...that's the first thing they look out for when reading chinese newspapers...some of them were totally ignorant of what's happening in the country. I was so shocked when one of my friends pointed at a Nicol David billboard and asked me who is she...(nothing to do about being a chinese-ed here btw)

both sux!
k thx bye.

Hm..

I'm considered a decent student from SJKC > SMK.
My english is not so good if compared to you all but I'm trying my best to improve my english.
I'm from a mandarin background ,
all of my relatives speak in mandarin or other dialects.
As a result, I do not have many chances to speak in english in such environment.
So, I can't speak so fluent in english, as I speak less.

Regarding your post, u said that chinese-ed students loves entertainment news.
Actually this does happen for SMK-ed students too.
Most of my friends will certainly look for Entertainment News ONLY!
They really do not care about issues surrounding them,
but dreaming to meet this idol, that idol, oh my god!
When the teacher is not around, then discuss about the scandals of idol
or hows the storyline for a certain drama..

I think this does happen among our students nowadays.
I'm feeling very fortune that I'm not one of them.
Yet, we cant say that they are totally wrong or useless,
as a student, we shouldn't act so.(just personal opinion )

For your friend whom do not who's Nicol n David..
I think..it's rather..funny? or pathetic?

I'm wholly agree with one of the poster above,
saying that from the education of chinese HS,
it is either the best or the worst .

To sum up,
there are pros and cons in every type of HS.
Depending how you educate your child.
This is rather important too.

Same here. I was in SRJKC to SMK. Now I'm still feel grateful that I continued taking Mandarin subject from form 1 - 5. Best decision at that time when I was a student. Helps me develop as a more "complete" person who are able to read, write and speak mandarin not just in daily life but helps me a lot in my career - IT and game dev work.

I can say our country education is the suckest (if this word exists). My opinion is you should go to SJKC, and then HC doesn't matter as long as you pick the Chinese subject.

Then you should/must choose correct and good college / University. Trust me, I studied Software Engineering in local Uni UMS and still thinking it sucks big time. People said all uni are same la.. just study hard and you'll be great in career also ma... I would say NO. It's DIFFERENT, observing from 10 years of my working life.

Most of my lecturers and study fields sucks. Most of them are receiving high paid and basically do nothing to help you in academy and learning curve.

The only great things are the study environment and many events organised by students themselves (pesta angpaw, pesta cahaya, pesta tanglung etc..) which helps us to improve social skills and makes a lot of friends from different faculties ( You know what I mean ). Unlike non-gov uni and colleges, you just have a particular gang and those are people you only know during campus life.

In nutshell,
Study in SJKC to get your basic yet most important academy skills. (Maths and sciences and Mandarin). Doesn't matter you pick Arts afterwards. Having good maths and science in primary school helps you to improve in logical thinking and building your learning skills when you were young.

Any SMK or Chinese HC - doesn't matter. Picking extra Mandarin subject is a big plus in building your career. Trust me.

You must know what you want to become and work for it for the rest of your life else you wake up go work repeat everyday like a zombie. You should pick a good Uni / college. Sad that in our country that middle-class smart students hard to deserve good education because of the quota, no gov scholarship etc.. Again, fuck this gov.

Hope my opinion help you.

What does study field mean?

I'm also a SRJK©>SMK product here too and currently studying in a national university(the top in M'sia). Agree with you that the lecturers suck(mostly lah, as there a still a few good ones)... I had to be independent and self-study on your own most of the time..