NTA @ 31/05/2018 Rm3.56

5108 ICAP ICAPITAL.BIZ BHD
NET ASSET VALUE / INDICATIVE OPTIMUM PORTFOLIO VALUE

NET ASSET VALUE / INDICATIVE OPTIMUM PORTFOLIO VALUE
On behalf of the Board of Directors of icapital.biz Berhad, we wish to announce
that the Net Asset Value per share of icapital.biz Berhad as at 4 June 2019 was
3.19.

Share price Rm2.36

Meanwhile Tan teng BOO still enjoying his fees...........

ICAP's portfolio going southwards. Is there "value" in ICAP's holdings besides F&N and Padini?

Padini is a jackpot. Icap bought really low

What happened to the 'projection' of ICap's price potentially going up to RM8+ several years back (during the time when there was a "boardroom tussle" from an interested British party)?

Today, 3 years+ later, Parkson is at RM0.22.

Is Parkson a 'bargain' at 22sen (as a Trading Buy)?

It certainly can't go to zero!

.... and Parkson today is even less.... 0.095

icapital 'paper losses' on Parkson alone should be more than 20 million already ....

Long time no update...... sorry sorry sorry.....

On the issue of fees again......

from 2019 AR ...



So .....

Total fees for 2006 is rm1,276,958
Total fees for 2019 is rm7,439,931

total fees increasing since that posting ......... (was I expecting lower fees? )
the fees increased at a CAGR rate of 14.5%

meanwhile iCapital the stock performance ...




would have done justice to the shareholders of the company if the fund was dissolved 5 years ago la....

Serious la...
You shareholders.... if you are reading this... your AGM is coming soon, yes?
ASK you sifu....
what exactly has done the past 5 years?
what has he done to deserve all the fees he charge the stock?

Seriously....

go count how much fees just the LAST 5 years...
not difficult to count...
go download the AR... and you can see....

and then ask what has the fund done?



who is getting rich at whose expense, huh?

are you paying him for doing nothing?

We had to gave credit to TTB for discovering many great stocks, during very early years.

However the performance been lagging since. My personal believe is this is due to high cash holding (timing market from Top-Down) and thus not being able to participate in up-leg. Also with so many global funds rolled out past few years (which don't do well either compare to index), he will certainly not be able to focus as much as he used to.

Saying that, when one put money into his funds, he can sleep well in the night knowing that his money will be with someone prudent will take care of it. Just the returns are lagging for far too many years and if he could not deliver soon enough, he will lose all the goodwill he earned all these years.

Let me do a bigger time frame...

This is the numbers since 2010..... data from http://www.icapital.my/annual-reports/
please double check...
I am liable for mistakes...


Total fees for 2010 is 4,161,351
Total fees for 2011 is 5,218,328
Total fees for 2012 is 5,899,469
Total fees for 2013 is 6,321,105
Total fees for 2014 is 6,351,797
Total fees for 2015 is 6,552,779
Total fees for 2016 is 6,289,781 *decreased but that year they took an impairment loss of 12.5 million on some of the shares*!!
Total fees for 2017 is 6,730,410
Total fees for 2018 is 7,428,302
Total fees for 2019 is 7,439,931

*cough* that's a lot of fees collected, no?

A round up calculation (please feel free to double check) shows that total fees collected is 58.231 million. GULP!

So for the last 10 years, the fees grew at CAGR rate of 5.99%

Compare the NAV for the last 10 years... from icap 2019AR https://mediafiles.icapital.biz/ext-files/i...orts/ar2019.pdf



in 2010, NAV is 157.58
in 2019, NAV is 233.22

the NAV grew only at CAR rate of 4%.



Simple question : who is better off? the fund or TTB?

in terms of stock price... using the weekly stock price .... in July 2010 ... icap was trading roughly about 1.80.

price today after 10 years..... icap is 2.02.

if one had purchased icap 10 years ago, one is only sitting on a 22 sen gain...

That's a CAGR gain of only 1.16% !!!!!!


and during this 10 year period, Tan Teng Boo collected 58 million plus in fees charged to iCapital




oh the chart....

Maybe I am not being fair...

Cos I am judging iCapital based on the current low prices ...

ok. no problem...

the chart once more ...



as we can see... the stock high was in 2018... roughly a high of 2.85 on Jan 2018....

so based on an 'investment' price of 1.80 into the fund on July 2010, the investor would have achieved a CAGR gain of 5.91% if the investor cashed out on Jan 2018.
compare that numbers to an investment into EPF...
which is better?

is the achievement outstanding enough to warrant such a hefty fee paid out to Tan Teng Boo??

if no sell at those prices.....

Sifu Boon on the roll today! Attacks TF and TTB.. 😆

my postings on those 2 got track record hor......

and if I am wrong .... or you DISAGREE share with me your reason lor.... I also want to learn to be better....

See you don't to worry so much for Teng Boo.

Teng Boo's fansi are so satisfied with the last 10 years fund performance that they don't mind all the fees charged to the fund....

10 years... 58 million.... all legal tender.





Life is good the neh.....






ps... if pointing out facts is called an attack.... LOL!!! ..... you seriously cannot be so narrow minded, can you?

This post has been edited by Boon3: Jul 10 2020, 04:30 PM

I never owned either AA or I capital, so I don't hold any beef..

AA: I follow Warren Buffet old advice, never invest in airline stocks. Weirdly, he didn't follow his own advice and now suffered billions of losses.

ICapital: This close end fund doesn't make sense to me. It's like investing in a unit trust with the disadvantage that it trades at a huge discount to NAV and no way for investors to arbitrage that discount. This is different than an ETF, where it's possible to swap the ETF units with the underlying assets, off market.

However in the US, there are close end funds which look interesting. Close end funds there tend to invest in income assets and they have a high dividend payout ratio. Sort of like a reit. Many also boost up their assets by using some leverage. So, with the combination of leverage and discount to NAV, it's not unusual to find double digit % dividends per anum. It's high risk, but at least, it's interesting.

But this iCap doesn't even pay dividends regularly. So I have never bothered about it.

The most stupid fee I think is “investment advisory fee“. You employ the fund manager to manage the fund. You pay the fund manager the fund management fee. The fund manager sets up another company and charge the fund “investment advisory fee”. Is that double charging? I dunno lah, I am not sure.. gotta ask the shareholders ...

This is where you and I are so very different. I don't view everything from a money opportunity perspective and I don't need any vested interest to voice out my 3 sen lousy opinion.

AA. WB meh? Please la. One need to think for themselves and not use the copycat strategy on the stock market. Does boss 1 and boss 2 deserve all criticism? They built the company on debts and now the company is failing because of this strategy. What? Give them more debt so that they can continue playing the same game all over again? Do they look like they are capable of learning from their mistakes? In 2009, they farked up and loss 640 million betting in hedges. Eleven years later. Same old same old. Are they going to lose a billion in hedges? The bribery scandal. Guilty as hell in my books. The insider trading? The private placement of shares to own boss1 and boss2 which was followed up by the insane dividend paid out? The gross booking of airplanes. Look inside the books. New airplanes orders totals over 110 Billion. Billions. Can you see? Can you see how farked up this is? The company has literally ran out of cash and is asking for bailout but has over 110 billion in backorder of new planes. If this all doesn't add up to gross mismanagement, what is?

So should I say I don't own shares in AA so I shall shut up?

Teng Boo. Same. It's not about the closed end fund.... it's all about the fees Teng Boo charges to the fund. He of course is smart. Yes. He made his money early on. Best strategy after that? Sit on it and do nothing. Isn't this what Teng Boo is doing the last 10 years? Sit on his butt and literally do nothing. If he is not going to do anything, he should dissolve the fund. Collecting these crazy fees and is totally unfair to the shareholders of the fund. Cannot perform? Quit lo. Is the fund going to continue feeding him?

Forum mah... so I am raising this issue.

This post has been edited by Boon3: Jul 11 2020, 09:35 AM

Exactly!!

The shareholders got to address this issue.

July 2010, 10 years ago, an investor might have pucrhased the stock at 1.80.
Today the stock is at 2.02.

And no dividend.

Stock gained a CAGR of 1.16% since 2010!

1 percent only nia.

How much fees was charged to the fund since 2010? 58 million and counting!

isn't it like a legalized way of robbing its shareholders?

This post has been edited by Boon3: Jul 11 2020, 09:34 AM

after 3-4 years ah boo still getting his big fat pay cheque, so many shareholders worship him eh.

There is tons of buying opportunity when the crash is there, march this year was a best timing and yet icap do nothing about it.

Please correct your statement... 10 years... Sepuloh... stock price moved up at a cagr of only1% nia...

He is smart la....

Buy something... if lose money? Die lo.... his fees how?

That's why he do nothing... and just collect money... knowing very well the shareholders all his fansi...all willing to pay him millions in fees each year....