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 What you can do, I can do also!, What's the big deal about DSLR Cameras?

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vincent_audio
post Jan 16 2008, 09:47 AM

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QUOTE
Do you guys have a certain sixth sense or experience that tells you what shuttle/iso/apperture to use for what occasion?
not really but my DSLR will tell me if i am under or not on manual mode. But after thousand times of usage i could roughly guess and it's 90% hit.

The other frustration i got earlier was whether the image i take is sharp or not. I cannot figure out earlier. But after a thousand times looking at it, ya i can tell if the image is not sharp.

Perhaps if you got the time, do join us this saturday for the LYN outing at bird park. It is more to a get together and get to know session. We had one earlier at the Zoo, and i'm pretty sure we all have a lot of fun. Trying out lenses, getting tips
timothyy
post Jan 16 2008, 09:49 AM

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QUOTE(darthbaboon @ Jan 16 2008, 09:25 AM)
That's a lot of replies and I appreciate the viewpoints.

The main reason why I got the DSLR is I recognized that the S3's got certain limitations during certain situations and shots, and I had hoped that the DSLR will be able to address/overcome these limitations.

Some of you have pointed out that I do not know much about cameras or photography. That would be not far from the truth. I'd say that I've learnt just enough to let me play around with manual mode to take some shots which I couldn't have taken using "auto" modes.

The beauty of the prosumer is that it retains a level of automation that takes a load of trouble/worry off the photographer => Undesirable for pros, but desirable for normal people who don't know what in the world is white balance, bulb exposure... etc. (much less how to control/tweak them).

The sudden need to tweak and play with so many values/buttons is overwhelming.... hence the frustration.

Anyway, I've bought the D40x... no turning back now. Might as well learn to be a better photographer... hoping that you guys can provide some tips and help/change in perspective and viewpoint.

Still have more noob questions from me, thanks for bearing up so far. This is in reply to Scorgio's post :

1) Accurate optical viewfinder - S3 doesn't. Whatever you see on your electronic viewfinder or LCD is actually a delayed liveview.

When I adjust shuttle speed/apperture/iso, the changes are reflected directly on the S3 LCD. Thus I know if I've got the ISO too low or adjusted the shuttle speed too fast and can compensate before taking the shot. I tried varying this on the D40x... there are no changes visible on the viewfinder. Many of my shots end up too dark/too bright and I have to take several (trial and error) before finally getting one right.

Do you guys have a certain sixth sense or experience that tells you what shuttle/iso/apperture to use for what occasion?

2) Image quality - The sensor size of a dSLR is much bigger than S3. Thus the ability to capture a wider range of colors & tones.

This doesn't really matter for me right now since my objective is primarily to capture photos for 4R and just enjoyment. Correct me if I'm wrong but I doubt the differences can be so great that it's noticable with the naked eye (unless you post two identical photos by prosumer & D40 side by side).

3) Burst mode - The slowest of the dSLR selling in the market today can do 3fps, S3 is 1.5fps/2.3fps (based on dpreview.com).

This is for fast shots/sports/continuous shooting I presume? Not really used atm for group photos, posed-photoshoots and scenery.

4) Hotshoe - The S3 don't have it thus can't mount an external flash. And thus can't shoot beyond 20ft in low light condition.

Night shots are really bad for the S3. How much is an external flash btw?

5) AF speed - The worst SLR can AF in less than 0.5 sec. While S3 usually takes 0.5-1 sec to lock on.

I don't notice the difference.

6) Shutter range - SLR is 30 - 1/4000 sec. While S3 is 15 - 1/3200 sec.

At 1/4000 or even 1/3200 sec unless the background is very bright otherwise the photo will turn out dark anyways so hardly/seldom use.

7) Instant response - SLR power up almost instantly (0.2 sec average), S3 around 1-2 sec.

An improvement of course, but I find the 1-2 sec sufficient since it takes me that long to bring up the camera and start looking at the subject anyways.

8) Shutter lag - entry level SLR is 80-90ms. S3 , I don't know.

I don't take sport/fast photos so I don't know.
Again, thanks to those who have replied constructively.
*
Ah... your reply sounds much better now. Earlier was a bi hostile. nod.gif nod.gif

Anyway, I guess u were simila like me when I changed from my Sony F828 to Olympus E500. I was condemning it then. It was difficult to get good picture... difficult to focus at night... shots were not good... and when take with flash, background was dark. I actually was kinda angry of my decision then.

But after using it for about 1 year + now, I feel that yeah... the E500 is not enough for me. I need something that caters my needs. (hint, moving to Nikon dSLR).
So... at the moment, I go back to my prosumer camera. Only then, I noticed that the down side of it. The most noticeable part is... ISO Noise even at ISO200. My E500 can give me good (so called) noise level even at ISO400.
What else? LCD screen is small. WHen I tried to use the viewfinder (LCD) I just can't get used to it. Too electronic. Menu control? Too limited hence hard for me to tweak (like what u guys say).

So... slowly la... u will like it. Because of its flexibility

SUSdgrebel
post Jan 16 2008, 10:24 AM

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can powershot s3 is do this panning shot?

user posted image

i'll be deliberately happy to switch back to prosumer cameras if that's the case.
zombie
post Jan 16 2008, 10:34 AM

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QUOTE(dgrebel @ Jan 16 2008, 10:24 AM)
can powershot s3 is do this panning shot?

user posted image

i'll be deliberately happy to switch back to prosumer cameras if that's the case.
*
There's no reason why the S3 can't take this panning shot lar.
zero_hour
post Jan 16 2008, 10:40 AM

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hahahha,im also like the TS....but i still believe DSLR can do anything compat/prosumer camera can do....

PICTURE = Apeture + Shutter

"the best picture come is when u get the right aperture and shutter speed 'working together'" nod.gif ...-my sifu zamrinmohammad said to me nod.gif
goldfries
post Jan 16 2008, 10:41 AM

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QUOTE(darthbaboon @ Jan 16 2008, 09:25 AM)
1) Accurate optical viewfinder - S3 doesn't. Whatever you see on your electronic viewfinder or LCD is actually a delayed liveview.

When I adjust shuttle speed/apperture/iso, the changes are reflected directly on the S3 LCD. Thus I know if I've got the ISO too low or adjusted the shuttle speed too fast and can compensate before taking the shot. I tried varying this on the D40x... there are no changes visible on the viewfinder. Many of my shots end up too dark/too bright and I have to take several (trial and error) before finally getting one right.

Do you guys have a certain sixth sense or experience that tells you what shuttle/iso/apperture to use for what occasion?


ahh. well there's always an indicator that tells you whether it's alright.

sometimes the indicator could be a little off, then you bump up the exposure a little.

QUOTE(darthbaboon @ Jan 16 2008, 09:25 AM)
2) Image quality - The sensor size of a dSLR is much bigger than S3. Thus the ability to capture a wider range of colors & tones.

This doesn't really matter for me right now since my objective is primarily to capture photos for 4R and just enjoyment. Correct me if I'm wrong but I doubt the differences can be so great that it's noticable with the naked eye (unless you post two identical photos by prosumer & D40 side by side).


Well yeah, i use 6MP prosumer and now 8MP DSLR.

the thing is like it or not your 10MP will snap better quality picture.

if i print out my prosumer vs my DSLR shots (both shoot same thing) no one will know which is from which either, but the thing is there's a quality there that you'll know to treasure eventually.


QUOTE(darthbaboon @ Jan 16 2008, 09:25 AM)
3) Burst mode - The slowest of the dSLR selling in the market today can do 3fps, S3 is 1.5fps/2.3fps (based on dpreview.com).

This is for fast shots/sports/continuous shooting I presume? Not really used atm for group photos, posed-photoshoots and scenery.


yes. he's just stating one of the advantages. See, sometimes you're shooting a flower and there's a bee coming. burst mode helps right? smile.gif hoping to get nice shot. can spam.

QUOTE(darthbaboon @ Jan 16 2008, 09:25 AM)
4) Hotshoe - The S3 don't have it thus can't mount an external flash. And thus can't shoot beyond 20ft in low light condition.

Night shots are really bad for the S3. How much is an external flash btw?


cheap Nissin's cost like less than RM 500. Sunpaks have some at around RM 500 - 600. I'm not sure about Nikon range of speedlites but Canon's 580EX II comes to a little more than RM 1.5k. so again, depends on how far you're willing to go with the flash unit.

They're very useful.

QUOTE(darthbaboon @ Jan 16 2008, 09:25 AM)
5) AF speed - The worst SLR can AF in less than 0.5 sec. While S3 usually takes 0.5-1 sec to lock on.

I don't notice the difference.


ahh. takes a while. my S7000's focusing takes quite a while.

QUOTE(darthbaboon @ Jan 16 2008, 09:25 AM)
6) Shutter range - SLR is 30 - 1/4000 sec. While S3 is 15 - 1/3200 sec.

At 1/4000 or even 1/3200 sec unless the background is very bright otherwise the photo will turn out dark anyways so hardly/seldom use.


yup. that's the purpose. to snap at lowest ISO + faster exposure on bright sunny day.

again, he's just highlighting the advantages you have.

QUOTE(darthbaboon @ Jan 16 2008, 09:25 AM)
7) Instant response - SLR power up almost instantly (0.2 sec average), S3 around 1-2 sec.

An improvement of course, but I find the 1-2 sec sufficient since it takes me that long to bring up the camera and start looking at the subject anyways.


Yeah. fast power up is always good. the only set-back with the fast power up DSLR is that if it was using the wrong lens - useless also. LOL.

well anyway, Scorgio is just highlighting the advantages.

come join us this weekend for the gathering! It's a good opportunity to learn.
hornetEJ
post Jan 16 2008, 10:44 AM

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QUOTE(dgrebel @ Jan 16 2008, 10:24 AM)
can powershot s3 is do this panning shot?

user posted image

i'll be deliberately happy to switch back to prosumer cameras if that's the case.
*
Sorry to sidetrack. Can give some advice how to achieve the panning shot like shown in the pic? Would like to learn that. Thanks smile.gif
valho
post Jan 16 2008, 10:45 AM

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QUOTE(hornetEJ @ Jan 16 2008, 10:44 AM)
Sorry to sidetrack. Can give some advice how to achieve the panning shot like shown in the pic? Would like to learn that. Thanks  smile.gif
*
keep the subject in focus then pan if i not mistaken
SUSdgrebel
post Jan 16 2008, 10:47 AM

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QUOTE(hornetEJ @ Jan 16 2008, 10:44 AM)
Sorry to sidetrack. Can give some advice how to achieve the panning shot like shown in the pic? Would like to learn that. Thanks  smile.gif
*
steady hands/tripod-assist/IS + slow shutter mode( follow the subject ) + AI servo

my best shot with my previous 350d + 75-300mm f4.5-5.6 usm
user posted image


This post has been edited by dgrebel: Jan 16 2008, 10:49 AM
mars2005
post Jan 16 2008, 10:48 AM

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QUOTE(dgrebel @ Jan 16 2008, 10:24 AM)
can powershot s3 is do this panning shot?

user posted image

i'll be deliberately happy to switch back to prosumer cameras if that's the case.
*
any camera can do panning, as long as u have the control over shutter speed, a very afforadable Canon A series can do the same.
SUSdgrebel
post Jan 16 2008, 10:50 AM

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QUOTE(mars2005 @ Jan 16 2008, 10:48 AM)
any camera can do panning, as long as u have the control over shutter speed, a very afforadable Canon A series can do the same.
*
of course, but using an interchangeable telelens with fast aperture and AI servo assist from the body, u'll get even far more sharp pic with a DSLR.
mars2005
post Jan 16 2008, 10:53 AM

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QUOTE(dgrebel @ Jan 16 2008, 10:50 AM)
of course, but using an interchangeable telelens with fast aperture and AI servo assist from the body, u'll get even far more sharp pic with a DSLR.
*
ok agree, that's extra credit to assist, but without dslr you can also do the same, practice makes perfect
SUSdgrebel
post Jan 16 2008, 10:56 AM

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QUOTE(mars2005 @ Jan 16 2008, 10:53 AM)
ok agree, that's extra credit to assist, but without dslr you can also do the same, practice makes perfect
*
i tell u, u'll be surprise to see the effect of IS via the viewfinder rather than a body with built-in IS. brows.gif

poison intended.

This post has been edited by dgrebel: Jan 16 2008, 10:57 AM
Mavik
post Jan 16 2008, 11:23 AM

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QUOTE(dgrebel @ Jan 16 2008, 10:24 AM)
can powershot s3 is do this panning shot?

user posted image

i'll be deliberately happy to switch back to prosumer cameras if that's the case.
*
QUOTE(dgrebel @ Jan 16 2008, 10:56 AM)
i tell u, u'll be surprise to see the effect of IS via the viewfinder rather than a body with built-in IS.  brows.gif

poison intended.
*
Lets try to stick to the topic for the TS as he mentioned that he takes SCENERY shots.

For all those people out there who feel insulted just because someone feels as if they have a tough time transitioning, why not just take a look at these group of photos (http://www.flickr.com/groups/pnsenvy/) taken by PnS. Definitely a humbling experience for me looking at these photos smile.gif

For DarthBaboon, since you bought your D40x and intend to make full use of it, in regards to scenery or landscape pictures, you can take full advantage of the many filters available for the DSLR markets which will help you such as ND filters, Graduated ND filters, CPL filters.

Before I just add more confusion to you, just do a Google on those terms.
mars2005
post Jan 16 2008, 11:24 AM

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QUOTE(dgrebel @ Jan 16 2008, 10:56 AM)
i tell u, u'll be surprise to see the effect of IS via the viewfinder rather than a body with built-in IS.  brows.gif

poison intended.
*
lol, can't poison lar, low vitamin M tongue.gif
SUSdgrebel
post Jan 16 2008, 11:31 AM

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QUOTE(Mavik @ Jan 16 2008, 11:23 AM)
Lets try to stick to the topic for the TS as he mentioned that he takes SCENERY shots.

For all those people out there who feel insulted just because someone feels as if they have a tough time transitioning, why not just take a look at these group of photos (http://www.flickr.com/groups/pnsenvy/) taken by PnS. Definitely a humbling experience for me looking at these photos smile.gif

For DarthBaboon, since you bought your D40x and intend to make full use of it, in regards to scenery or landscape pictures, you can take full advantage of the many filters available for the DSLR markets which will help you such as ND filters, Graduated ND filters, CPL filters.

Before I just add more confusion to you, just do a Google on those terms.
*
all i see at that web address are post-processed PNS shots. sweat.gif

yeah agree on the filter part, there's alot to venture with a dslr, eg: the IR filter and the polarization filter that can help u see through water under a reflection. flex.gif

This post has been edited by dgrebel: Jan 16 2008, 11:33 AM
goldfries
post Jan 16 2008, 11:38 AM

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i doubt anyone here is insulted la (eh, i thought i mentioned this earlier).

the site shows even better the capability and short-coming of a point&shoot / prosumer camera.

i still keep my prosumer, they're do come in handy some times. if used my prosumer for blog article header twice already. biggrin.gif i mean it being the subject.
ganz
post Jan 16 2008, 11:40 AM

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truly.. a good and pure confession by prosumer migrate to DSLR.. biggrin.gif

my advise.. get a TT or gathering.. group photo activities.. learn more about how to use this camera..

search more in internet.. manual.. post ur picture.. let them critic.. ask if u not understand.. but be sure.. u read manual first..

if u in limited budget.. just get sb400..(around rm400-500) it small.. purely compatible with ur camera..

one thing... using dslr.. u will end up with choices of lens
u can have a purely WIDE angle.
or.. telefoto..
or wide open aperture.. perhaps up to 1.4
or small aperture F22..or more for landscape..
or fish eye
or mm

BTW i'm still with my S3IS.. kekekek



SUSdgrebel
post Jan 16 2008, 11:43 AM

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now the plot thickens. which one to choose?

haha.. both have their own advantages. choose whatever suits your lifestyle and passion. for me, photography is just passion, coz i'm studying engineering which i have to focus more at. but, practically, u can make money with a dslr. nuff said.
NasiLemakMan
post Jan 16 2008, 12:43 PM

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QUOTE(dgrebel @ Jan 16 2008, 11:43 AM)
now the plot thickens. which one to choose?

haha.. both have their own advantages. choose whatever suits your lifestyle and passion. for me, photography is just passion, coz i'm studying engineering which i have to focus more at. but, practically, u can make money with a dslr. nuff said.
*
Can but not much. Most pro fotogs incomes comes from the classes they conduct rather than pictures they sell.

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