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 LYN Proton Saga/Iswara Drivers' Forum! with **V9**, SIE "Saga Iswara Enthusiasts"

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yewwing
post Dec 13 2007, 08:48 PM

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wahh all sifo sifo talking already
neosaint99
post Dec 13 2007, 08:52 PM

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QUOTE(andychan @ Dec 13 2007, 08:45 PM)
neosaint99 is it manual car dont have clutch oil?
i dono for other car lah but waja i see have it ?
*
usually manual uses dry clutch
is the waja a manual?
n r u sure it is clutch oil and not the automatic transmission oil?
if u r sure about it, then i'm very interested to know y the waja is using a wet clutch
usually low power transmissions only use wet clutch...like low cc bikes
even the 125cc and above nowdays try to go for dry clutch d hmm.gif
the_catacombs
post Dec 13 2007, 08:53 PM

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QUOTE(andychan @ Dec 13 2007, 08:45 PM)
neosaint99 is it manual car dont have clutch oil?
i dono for other car lah but waja i see have it ?
*
u mean clutch pump ahh??... cars like waja n wira, they use hydraulic clutch pump... while ours use cable saja....
neosaint99
post Dec 13 2007, 09:00 PM

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QUOTE(the_catacombs @ Dec 13 2007, 08:53 PM)
u mean clutch pump ahh??... cars like waja n wira, they use hydraulic clutch pump... while ours use cable saja....
*
ohh,...u mean for the servo izit doh.gif hahaha
singchaii
post Dec 13 2007, 09:53 PM

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QUOTE(neosaint99 @ Dec 13 2007, 07:38 PM)
you shouldnt be driving at that rpm before 1000km
before that you should keep it below 2500rpm
after the 1000km change can rev but still dont too high
take care of your engine until it wears in...about 5k
then u can drive like normal
and ofcourse high revs and hard driving at any point of the car's life is not good

btw,for a typical iswara gearbox on gear five at 110km/h cranks in at about 3450rpm


Added on December 13, 2007, 7:42 pm

just wondering about the fender bar
if the guy can drill through the metal with a battery powered hand drill, the metal cant be very thick or very hard
so, what kind of force transfer will that point have?
if the bar is a rigid system, then the surrounding metal will be flexing massively and this would be very bad for the car body
the two anchored to the door hinge points are probably abit more robust as they were designed to be anchor points...
but still, their load would be static load, not dynamic load
so the appropriateness of anchoring there is also questionable to a certain extent

im not saying the bar wont make a diff
i dont know and i wont comment on that
but its just that from the looks of it, the car body is going to be massively fatigued (unneccessarily) by the installation of this bar


Added on December 13, 2007, 7:46 pm

the most efficient speed for this car at steady state at gear 5 is between 80 and 90km/h...actual speed, not what is shown on our meters,...use gps or count the distance markers on the highway when at constant speed to know your error...
mine shows 8km under...meaning if its showing 90, im actually doing only 82km/h!

this speed im quoting is not only taking into account the peak power on the power curve of the engine, but also air resistance encountered by the frontal cross section of the car
once the car starts approaching 100 and above, the air resistance gets higher (the increase is non-linear) and thus more power is needed to maintain the speed and efficiency drops


Added on December 13, 2007, 7:53 pm

manual cars use DRY clutch
there is no oil in the system
if oil seal from gear box leaks and oil gets onto the clutch plate, the clutch wont catch and u'll get a burning pad even when fully engaged
can be one of two things that the prob
1. clutch cable snapped
2. clutch arm busted
or very unlikely 3. spring plate busted


Added on December 13, 2007, 7:58 pm

thats gona increase your fc
its a double butterfly
the iswara stock carbie uses a linear air flow carburator
the butterfly flap gives a non linear (exponential) air flow increase
the linear air flow carbie is practically a mechanical EFI
next to injection, this is the best
and FYI, with my 6month old 1.3 which hasnt even worn in yet properly, im getting 12.8km/L which works out to 15cents/km
not to mention next year petrol prolly gona be 2.50 or 2.60 per liter
the weber aint gonna help your wallet...


Added on December 13, 2007, 7:59 pm

the only way would be to install an efi system
without that, the fuel will need the carburator to control the flow
*
about the fender bar, it drill there. But have you see how difficult to drill? Last time autogen wanna drill the hole there feel so tired. It need force in so hard then only the drill bit can go tru. Where we drill there, is the most hardest place among the whole body. Even thought if you use the power drill and drill 4wd vehicle also can go tru la. See like nothing can do, but it really gave alot of improvement. Try already then you know. icon_rolleyes.gif

QUOTE(Gilbert5107 @ Dec 13 2007, 08:02 PM)
neosaint99 speaks all.... notworthy.gif

neosaint99@
grounding cable got wad effect?
*
Grounding cable not much effect. But if install it at some age car, you can feel it. The effect can give is,

-Better headlight. (Because the grounding enough. Even our oem headlamp also need grouding. Imagine using a tiny wire to grounding the headlamp with thicker wire, which is better?)
- ICE
- Engine start better. 1 crank jao start.

TSandychan
post Dec 13 2007, 10:06 PM

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yah i think is that servo or what it call happy.gif
because last time i drive my father waja manual then half way press clutch cant masuk gear, like the clutch total cant feel it . then my father bring dono what oil refill in to it then can use for temperately liow. need to go home check for it is it got clutch oil happy.gif
neosaint99
post Dec 13 2007, 10:48 PM

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QUOTE(singchaii @ Dec 13 2007, 09:53 PM)
about the fender bar, it drill there. But have you see how difficult to drill? Last time autogen wanna drill the hole there feel so tired. It need force in so hard then only the drill bit can go tru. Where we drill there, is the most hardest place among the whole body. Even thought if you use the power drill and drill 4wd vehicle also can go tru la. See like nothing can do, but it really gave alot of improvement. Try already then you know.  icon_rolleyes.gif
*
as i clearly stated at the begining,... im not denying that it improves performance

im just saying that its going to fatigue the metal
and ofcourse its hard to drill with a battery operated drill
the rpm is too low for the drill bit
those are HSS drill bits (high speed steel)
not meant for low rpm
as it is, the low rpm will make it hard to operate efficiently
and if they are constantly doing it, then the drill bit will most definitely be blunt due to the wrong operating conditions,... making it even worse
that is most likely why it was so 'hard' to go through
right tools for the right job bro...if not everything gets spoilt and the tools will not necessarily make life easier sweat.gif

also, you are saying that its the hardest place in the body
did u check and see if there was a mounting plate there for force distribution?
mounting/load points are always designed differently,...especially when it comes to dynamic loads
the place that they are drilling into doesnt have anything behind it
or they wouldnt be able to bolt the bar in
and since there was nothing there, there most likely wont be a mounting point there and thus no additional strength in that location
it will just be a normal pressed metal plate like everything else
this being the case, the strength would be the same and thus it in all likelihood wont be suitable for dynamic load bearing


QUOTE(singchaii @ Dec 13 2007, 09:53 PM)

Grounding cable not much effect. But if install it at some age car, you can feel it. The effect can give is,

-Better headlight. (Because the grounding enough. Even our oem headlamp also need grouding. Imagine using a tiny wire to grounding the headlamp with thicker wire, which is better?)
- ICE
- Engine start better. 1 crank jao start.
*
you have to understand that bigger is not always necessary
the light has a rated power draw
if the wire can support it, then a larger one is not required
if the draw is 5amps, then a 8 or 10amp wire will do
installing a 50amp wire will not make any difference innocent.gif

and another thing
the grounding wire is only the negative
if every1 is so for installing huge 100amp grounding wires, why not change all the positive wires to thick wires too?
wouldnt the 'tiny wire' supplying the power at the positive terminal of the light now be the bottle neck?
its a closed circuit
you just cant go and change half the loop and say it now has better capacity
and if the excuse is oxidation, then wouldnt the positive also be oxidized?
why not change that one too? whistling.gif

and bottom line,...the efficiency still does not improve

This post has been edited by neosaint99: Dec 13 2007, 10:54 PM
camel90
post Dec 13 2007, 11:09 PM

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hello guys/sifoos..

wana ask smthng. the CAI thingy, will it give same effect to my old saga with stock carburator same as the effect it gives to those EFI engine like wira 4g15?

i know the purpose of this CAI thingy is to suck in cold air instead of hot air that circulating under the hood. im just curious about the effect to my old carb saga. biggrin.gif

thanx in advance.
neosaint99
post Dec 13 2007, 11:44 PM

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QUOTE(camel90 @ Dec 13 2007, 11:09 PM)
hello guys/sifoos..

wana ask smthng. the CAI thingy, will it give same effect to my old saga with stock carburator same as the effect it gives to those EFI engine like wira 4g15?

i know the purpose of this CAI thingy is to suck in cold air instead of hot air that circulating under the hood. im just curious about the effect to my old carb saga. biggrin.gif

thanx in advance.
*
no matter how old your car is, if u r sucking in hot air now, the cold air will definitely make a difference
its basic thermodynamics icon_rolleyes.gif
singchaii
post Dec 13 2007, 11:48 PM

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QUOTE(neosaint99 @ Dec 13 2007, 10:48 PM)
as i clearly stated at the begining,... im not denying that it improves performance

im just saying that its going to fatigue the metal
and ofcourse its hard to drill with a battery operated drill
the rpm is too low for the drill bit
those are HSS drill bits (high speed steel)
not meant for low rpm
as it is, the low rpm will make it hard to operate efficiently
and if they are constantly doing it, then the drill bit will most definitely be blunt due to the wrong operating conditions,... making it even worse
that is most likely why it was so 'hard' to go through
right tools for the right job bro...if not everything gets spoilt and the tools will not necessarily make life easier sweat.gif

also, you are saying that its the hardest place in the body
did u check and see if there was a mounting plate there for force distribution?
mounting/load points are always designed differently,...especially when it comes to dynamic loads
the place that they are drilling into doesnt have anything behind it
or they wouldnt be able to bolt the bar in
and since there was nothing there, there most likely wont be a mounting point there and thus no additional strength in that location
it will just be a normal pressed metal plate like everything else
this being the case, the strength would be the same and thus it in all likelihood wont be suitable for dynamic load bearing
you have to understand that bigger is not always necessary
the light has a rated power draw
if the wire can support it, then a larger one is not required
if the draw is 5amps, then a 8 or 10amp wire will do
installing a 50amp wire will not make any difference innocent.gif

and another thing
the grounding wire is only the negative
if every1 is so for installing huge 100amp grounding wires, why not change all the positive wires to thick wires too?
wouldnt the 'tiny wire' supplying the power at the positive terminal of the light now be the bottle neck?
its a closed circuit
you just cant go and change half the loop and say it now has better capacity
and if the excuse is oxidation, then wouldnt the positive also be oxidized?
why not change that one too? whistling.gif

and bottom line,...the efficiency still does not improve
*
Why we need additional grounding?
QUOTE
Most of the factory grounding system consists of a few skinny cables that usually connect the body and engine/gearbox back to the battery's negative terminal. As these connections oxidize or come loose over time, the electrical devices have to work much harder to overcome the increased resistance. Inadequate grounding causes starting difficulty, inaccurate sensor reading, unneccesary high fuel consumption, shorter battery lifespan, electrical/electronic malfunction and various drivability issue.

Apart from maintaining the factory ground system, additional grounding comes handy in preventing such problems and restoring lost performance. It works by connecting various engine and chassis "point" back to the battery to provide shorter, lower-resistance paths for the electrical current.

Even brand new cars can have problems with inadequate grounding due to production cost and other considerations. If you want the ultimate in everything, you should consider getting a set of professionally install high quality grounding cables.

However, grounding modification does not increase your top speed on a properly maintained vehicle. Grounding cannot cure all your electrical/mechanical problems. Grounding modification should never come before all neccesary maintenance that ensures the road worthiness of your vehicle.

First, why i said when installing grounding, my headlamp is brighter? My headlamp wiring had been change to 90/100w, while the stock grounding is not enough for me. it already proven to me, when installed additional grounding, my headlamp become better..

Another thing, when my car still stock, I installed ICE. Not much, just a 4 channel amplifier and a 12 double magnet woofer. When I turn it, the headlamp, meter light, even door lamp will blinking when the bass kick in. When after I installed the grounding, all those thing solved. That is another reason, stock grounding is not enough. It maybe enough for car which 100% stock. Thicker, doesn't mean the better. But if choose the thick compare with tiny, confirm the thicker is better that the tiny stock grounding cable. And one more thing, how you know my car all positive wiring is still stock wire? whistling.gif whistling.gif

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «



Added on December 13, 2007, 11:57 pmGuy.. Izit possible to get the old batch lmst side spoiler? I wanna buy it and put at my car. I feel with those side spoiler, it look better.

This post has been edited by singchaii: Dec 13 2007, 11:57 PM
neosaint99
post Dec 14 2007, 12:04 AM

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QUOTE(singchaii @ Dec 13 2007, 11:48 PM)
Why we need additional grounding?

First, why i said when installing grounding, my headlamp is brighter? My headlamp wiring had been change to 90/100w, while the stock grounding is not enough for me. it already proven to me, when installed additional grounding, my headlamp become better..

Another thing, when my car still stock, I installed ICE. Not much, just a 4 channel amplifier and a 12 double magnet woofer. When I turn it, the headlamp, meter light, even door lamp will blinking when the bass kick in. When after I installed the grounding, all those thing solved. That is another reason, stock grounding is not enough. It maybe enough for car which 100% stock. Thicker, doesn't mean the better. But if choose the thick compare with tiny, confirm the thicker is better that the tiny stock grounding cable. And one more thing, how you know my car all positive wiring is still stock wire?  whistling.gif  whistling.gif

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «



Added on December 13, 2007, 11:57 pmGuy.. Izit possible to get the old batch lmst side spoiler? I wanna buy it and put at my car. I feel with those side spoiler, it look better.
*
thats the thing
if wana talk bout cables, we should not just talk bout 'grounding cables'
should be basically rewiring

i dont think can get the side spoilers
coz if ppl wana take them out, then there will be holes in their car
its screwed into the side
mayb can get from half cut shop or from cars that have been totaled hmm.gif
singchaii
post Dec 14 2007, 12:08 AM

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QUOTE(neosaint99 @ Dec 14 2007, 12:04 AM)
thats the thing
if wana talk bout cables, we should not just talk bout 'grounding cables'
should be basically rewiring

i dont think can get the side spoilers
coz if ppl wana take them out, then there will be holes in their car
its screwed into the side
mayb can get from half cut shop or from cars that have been totaled hmm.gif
*
Drill hole to screw de meh? I thought double side tape? That also one of the proton parts. cannot get at Proton Spare part shop?
neosaint99
post Dec 14 2007, 12:34 AM

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QUOTE(singchaii @ Dec 14 2007, 12:08 AM)
Drill hole to screw de meh? I thought double side tape? That also one of the proton parts. cannot get at Proton Spare part shop?
*
yeap
screwed in
atleast one screw each
on the horizontal part
rest i not sure how its held in
mayb can get from proton parts in glenmarie
not sure bout that tho hmm.gif
singchaii
post Dec 14 2007, 12:50 AM

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QUOTE(neosaint99 @ Dec 14 2007, 12:34 AM)
yeap
screwed in
atleast one screw each
on the horizontal part
rest i not sure how its held in
mayb can get from proton parts in glenmarie
not sure bout that tho hmm.gif
*
glenmarie is where?
wkho555
post Dec 14 2007, 01:04 AM

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QUOTE(singchaii @ Dec 14 2007, 12:50 AM)
glenmarie is where?
*
shah alam lo. i go there buy ori CAI brows.gif
dopeisgood
post Dec 14 2007, 01:38 AM

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QUOTE(the_catacombs @ Dec 13 2007, 05:52 PM)
haha... anyone interested wanna join my weber clan can get from him....
*
kinda interested since its purpose suits mine.. hahah

QUOTE(singchaii @ Dec 13 2007, 06:19 PM)
wrong tuning also can get 20cent per km? Wah.. My normal carb, already 19cent per km. If weber with perfect tuning, 15cent per km? Weber is cheap. But mod the weber tapak expensive.  sweat.gif
*
erm.. yeah correct tuning should provide betta FC

QUOTE(neosaint99 @ Dec 13 2007, 07:38 PM)
thats gona increase your fc
its a double butterfly
the iswara stock carbie uses a linear air flow carburator
the butterfly flap gives a non linear (exponential) air flow increase
the linear air flow carbie is practically a mechanical EFI
next to injection, this is the best
and FYI, with my 6month old 1.3 which hasnt even worn in yet properly, im getting 12.8km/L which works out to 15cents/km
not to mention next year petrol prolly gona be 2.50 or 2.60 per liter
the weber aint gonna help your wallet...
*
not necessarily as proper tuning will give betta FC than normal carbie.. ultimately still depends on ur right leg..

QUOTE(the_catacombs @ Dec 13 2007, 08:35 PM)
perfect tuning i never try before whats the fuel consumption... if i got i also dun need to be in dilemma now... rclxub.gif
fabricate the adaptor can be cheap or expensive.... dcnf is cheap, around 100bucks can get.... mine, dgv, cost about rm180... ramly had to send my carb to machine shop to fabricate the adaptor for me on the spot... sweat.gif
yeap... weber 32/36 dgv 5a is a progressive carb... its dual barrel, primary and secondary, which opens one at a time... different with dcnf or dcoe where both of their butterfly flap opens together....
well, its this characteristic that fascinates me much about the power delivery.... when the second barrel opens, u can feel an extra surge of power... thumbup.gif  thumbup.gif
*
yeah tats wat im reali into DGV instead of DCNF or DCOE.. haha
the_catacombs
post Dec 14 2007, 01:59 AM

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QUOTE(camel90 @ Dec 13 2007, 11:09 PM)
hello guys/sifoos..

wana ask smthng. the CAI thingy, will it give same effect to my old saga with stock carburator same as the effect it gives to those EFI engine like wira 4g15?

i know the purpose of this CAI thingy is to suck in cold air instead of hot air that circulating under the hood. im just curious about the effect to my old carb saga. biggrin.gif

thanx in advance.
*
yeah... got effect... nod.gif nod.gif

QUOTE(dopeisgood @ Dec 14 2007, 01:38 AM)
yeah tats wat im reali into DGV instead of DCNF or DCOE.. haha
*
so, go get one then... icon_idea.gif
dopeisgood
post Dec 14 2007, 02:18 AM

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QUOTE(the_catacombs @ Dec 14 2007, 01:59 AM)
so, go get one then... icon_idea.gif
*
erm.. still thinkin.. now kinda on tight budget.. take it slow.. haha
virginslayer
post Dec 14 2007, 03:58 AM

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QUOTE(andychan @ Dec 9 2007, 09:10 AM)
wellcome  rclxms.gif
your name added in the list  drool.gif
hope you will visit this thread every day  icon_idea.gif
*
thanks...aish...din enter this thread for few days edy.
anyway,i didnt mod my car anything.
except for the brake,change to air brake.
nothing changes,can drive fast.depend how crazy i drive...
if super fast,puchong to sunway only 6minutes...that's the fastest i can go.
the_catacombs
post Dec 14 2007, 04:03 AM

8 stars wooo....
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QUOTE(dopeisgood @ Dec 14 2007, 02:18 AM)
erm.. still thinkin.. now kinda on tight budget.. take it slow.. haha
*
take it before its being taken...

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