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 LYN Proton Saga/Iswara Drivers' Forum! with **V9**, SIE "Saga Iswara Enthusiasts"

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neosaint99
post Dec 9 2007, 09:45 AM

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hey guyz
leave u guys skejap n u all go n start v9 d
hahaha

anywayz,...heres a snippet of the post i put in my iswara mod thread

*quote*
i just tried out my friend's new lmst
its using the stock 4-1 exhaust manifold
i can honestly say that his car has far better low end torque compared to mine which is using a long 4-2-1 extractor (which was stock when i purchased my car back in May)
if ya'll are having problems with power, i would suggest you get a trade in on the 4-2-1 extractor at your local exhaust shop
im sure they have many 2nd hand 4-1s hanging around
im seriously considering doing this as my low end torque is really bad hmm.gif
*unquote*

the new lmst (with the crummy tail-pipe and 'long' gear shift) is wayyy lighter than mine which i got in May
the clutch is lighter, the gears smoother, i think the power steering is also lighter (havnt driven my car in a month so cant really remember)
...and the best part is,...it has far better low end torque!
this will significantly improve efficiency,...especially in town driving

any idea howmuch it would cost to swap my 4-2-1 for a stock 4-1?
neosaint99
post Dec 9 2007, 09:49 AM

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oh,...and i need to fix fog lamps on my car
some of the roads here are really really....(and i mean REALLY)...dark rclxub.gif
any pics of ppl who have installed?

i saw in v8 singchaii posted a pic
but that was with the lights on
couldnt c how the lights themselves were mounted

anyone else fixed fog lamps?
can please post pics here?
i need ideas
hehe
thanks alot peeps
biggrin.gif
neosaint99
post Dec 9 2007, 10:51 AM

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QUOTE(singchaii @ Dec 9 2007, 10:10 AM)
I suggest you don't swap to 4-1. Just like me change the exhaust system last month ago. I changed my midbox into bullet and monza straight flow and still using 1.6 piping with 4-2-1 wise extractor. The different now is, I had better pick up. Seriously that my pick up so gear. While in top speed, no different with last time.. Stock exhaust setup, 0-100km/h I get around 12 seconds while after change my exhaust, I can get around 10 seconds. I tested it at a long straight road.  icon_rolleyes.gif
*
but if i can get the same with a stock swap i would rather do that than change the exhaust line
lastime i drove my fren's lmst to ipoh n back
got 16++km/L!!!
his was using stock 4-1 manifold
and there were 3 of us in the car
n had our stuff in the boot too

thats y wen get 12+km/L with my lmst i was very disappointed
i think it has to do with the extractor and exhaust line that they changed
no idea y they keep changing
dun think they are doing any modeling to test oso
just main change change je
haih...

QUOTE(singchaii @ Dec 9 2007, 10:10 AM)
I suggest you get HELLA driving lamp. The light beam, more good that our LMST headlamp.  sad.gif But above Rm160 for each. The image i posted is myvi foglamp. I wouldn't help much in driving.
*
any pics?
i tot the myvi fog lamps similar to the gen2's?
the gen2 fog lamps performance not bad wor
wen i 1st came here i was using a gen2 for 3 weeks
it had the fog lamps and i was using them alot for my night driving on the darker roads


any1 got pics of fog lamps they installed?

thanks all biggrin.gif

This post has been edited by neosaint99: Dec 9 2007, 10:57 AM
neosaint99
post Dec 9 2007, 06:58 PM

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QUOTE(blackpc @ Dec 9 2007, 10:57 AM)
bro, u can check out mine;
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


for the picture of them lighted up, refer to the first page.

I am very happy with the fog lights' performance. Price is only rm120 per pair. It's very sturdy as well, no scratches at all until now.

By the way, where is pembunuh bijirin going?
*
what brand is it?
can it adjust the "left-right" direction?
i see the mounting as if can only adjust up and down hmm.gif


Added on December 9, 2007, 7:00 pm
QUOTE(singchaii @ Dec 9 2007, 11:19 AM)
I dunno how to count how many km/l. While after I change my muffler, RM0.17 per km. Hehe. I dun think swap the extractor only can give more improvement.

I dun think myvi foglamp can work well when after install in our lmst bumper. because, the myvi foglight we terbalik only can fit. So I scare the beam also terbalik.

this is Hella comet 450. (rm90+ each)
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


This is hella driving lamp. The beam, more good that our oem headlamp. (near RM200 each)
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

Pembunuh bijiran wan go johor already. This coming saturday TT wan come or not ler? Hehe.
*
oh
didnt know must terbalik...
if like that den duwan lor
hahaha

the hela comet looks like something off a land cruiser or range rover
dun think it'll look good on a car
the driving lamp on the other hand looks good
any dimension?
and can it adjust "left-right" direction?
this one oso the bracket looks like can only adjust "up-down"


Added on December 9, 2007, 7:01 pm
QUOTE(wkho555 @ Dec 9 2007, 05:27 PM)
swap with mine. ^^
as u can see in the market. performance exhaust is 4-2-1. i hv check mine n i found out the the proton oem 4-1 exhaust bend is bad.  i can see the main band hv a sharp corner. for sure the exhaust flow is no good.
*
do u have a pic of the band?
would be interesting to know

all performance extractors are 4-2-1
thats true
but then the engine must also be tuned for it
cant just go and slap an extractor on just any engine block
if the match doesnt jive, the performance will actually decrease rather than increase

This post has been edited by neosaint99: Dec 9 2007, 07:03 PM
neosaint99
post Dec 9 2007, 09:15 PM

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QUOTE(singchaii @ Dec 9 2007, 07:33 PM)
confirm is lousier suspension. My suspension dead after when 3months.  vmad.gif  vmad.gif  mad.gif  mad.gif
The driving lamp can adjust. About the hella comet 450, it look ugly if put on bumper. It will look better if put behind the behind. I mean behind the grill.. It look more nicer. If with amber, it look like AE86. =P

I got some example of Hella 450 beam. If you wanna see, I post for you to see..
Absorber didn't include warranty although it dead 3 month.. Power window yes, air cond yes.
*
yeap
most definitely!
where can buy ar?
if put behind the grill how will the beam be effected?
neosaint99
post Dec 9 2007, 09:21 PM

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QUOTE(wkho555 @ Dec 9 2007, 09:09 PM)
i use v-power rm50 can go for 250km mean 0.20sen/km
so what about normal fuel rm50 can go how far???
*
this is exactly why the cent/km is not practical
how can one compare the fc of two different fuel types which have different prices?...
what is being compared now is cost per km
which of course will be different due the difference in fuel cost... dry.gif

This post has been edited by neosaint99: Dec 9 2007, 09:22 PM
neosaint99
post Dec 10 2007, 08:21 PM

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QUOTE(singchaii @ Dec 9 2007, 09:39 PM)
Actually no such thing that fuel give more millage. it need to see your engine condition, good engine oil, driving style, and also whether is city user or highway user.
*
actually, there is
additives to the fuel do reduce engine friction and improve the combustion of the fuel to a certain extent
also they have anti-fouling agents added in
this reduces soot and foreign matter buildup in the combustion chamber and on the piston...and to a certain extent the spark plug too
this in turn provides better combustion conditions, less blow by and better energy conversion

im not saying efficiency can go up by 10% or even 5%
its much less
but still there nonetheless
also, the additives are in the parts per million
they are in very small quantities as the major volume and thus dominating characteristics are still that of the fuel itself
biggrin.gif
neosaint99
post Dec 13 2007, 07:38 PM

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QUOTE(kabyss87 @ Dec 13 2007, 03:08 AM)
gd morning everyone!!!!

i wanna be part of the list.. hehe  laugh.gif 

been driving the car since last mth....

just service my lmst last week.. break 1st 1000KM liao..  thumbup.gif  thumbup.gif

just one question b4 i take the car out for another spin...

izit normal to hit 3000rpm when i top up to 100km/hr? at that rpm still fuel efficient arr?  rclxub.gif  rclxub.gif  rclxub.gif
*
you shouldnt be driving at that rpm before 1000km
before that you should keep it below 2500rpm
after the 1000km change can rev but still dont too high
take care of your engine until it wears in...about 5k
then u can drive like normal
and ofcourse high revs and hard driving at any point of the car's life is not good

btw,for a typical iswara gearbox on gear five at 110km/h cranks in at about 3450rpm


Added on December 13, 2007, 7:42 pm
QUOTE(cheeann @ Dec 12 2007, 09:45 PM)
actually welding is better~
*
just wondering about the fender bar
if the guy can drill through the metal with a battery powered hand drill, the metal cant be very thick or very hard
so, what kind of force transfer will that point have?
if the bar is a rigid system, then the surrounding metal will be flexing massively and this would be very bad for the car body
the two anchored to the door hinge points are probably abit more robust as they were designed to be anchor points...
but still, their load would be static load, not dynamic load
so the appropriateness of anchoring there is also questionable to a certain extent

im not saying the bar wont make a diff
i dont know and i wont comment on that
but its just that from the looks of it, the car body is going to be massively fatigued (unneccessarily) by the installation of this bar


Added on December 13, 2007, 7:46 pm
QUOTE(andychan @ Dec 13 2007, 07:44 AM)
good morning to all and kabyss87 and sifu sky happy.gif
100kmh all the way will safe fuel more happy.gif just keep your RPM not to high this will safe alot smile.gif

want me add you in the list of member and do you want to join out TT season this sat smile.gif req feedback ASAP. TQ
*
the most efficient speed for this car at steady state at gear 5 is between 80 and 90km/h...actual speed, not what is shown on our meters,...use gps or count the distance markers on the highway when at constant speed to know your error...
mine shows 8km under...meaning if its showing 90, im actually doing only 82km/h!

this speed im quoting is not only taking into account the peak power on the power curve of the engine, but also air resistance encountered by the frontal cross section of the car
once the car starts approaching 100 and above, the air resistance gets higher (the increase is non-linear) and thus more power is needed to maintain the speed and efficiency drops


Added on December 13, 2007, 7:53 pm
QUOTE(andychan @ Dec 13 2007, 09:32 AM)
manual car cant check meh? sorry is clutch oil not gear oil tongue.gif


Added on December 13, 2007, 9:38 amcant press clutch, mostly not enough clutch oil, or leaking tongue.gif
*
manual cars use DRY clutch
there is no oil in the system
if oil seal from gear box leaks and oil gets onto the clutch plate, the clutch wont catch and u'll get a burning pad even when fully engaged
can be one of two things that the prob
1. clutch cable snapped
2. clutch arm busted
or very unlikely 3. spring plate busted


Added on December 13, 2007, 7:58 pm
QUOTE(dopeisgood @ Dec 13 2007, 11:36 AM)
found sumthg interesting~
CHECK IT OUT!
*
thats gona increase your fc
its a double butterfly
the iswara stock carbie uses a linear air flow carburator
the butterfly flap gives a non linear (exponential) air flow increase
the linear air flow carbie is practically a mechanical EFI
next to injection, this is the best
and FYI, with my 6month old 1.3 which hasnt even worn in yet properly, im getting 12.8km/L which works out to 15cents/km
not to mention next year petrol prolly gona be 2.50 or 2.60 per liter
the weber aint gonna help your wallet...


Added on December 13, 2007, 7:59 pm
QUOTE(kevinlim001 @ Dec 13 2007, 01:25 PM)
Guys who know the price of the caburator of our car? My gf's iswara a/b cabbie spoil already.. the mech say now the mod a bit so that the fuel no need to pass thru cabb anymore  blink.gif is that possible? If wanna replace how much?
*
the only way would be to install an efi system
without that, the fuel will need the carburator to control the flow

This post has been edited by neosaint99: Dec 13 2007, 08:10 PM
neosaint99
post Dec 13 2007, 08:08 PM

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QUOTE(Gilbert5107 @ Dec 13 2007, 08:02 PM)
neosaint99 speaks all.... notworthy.gif

neosaint99@
grounding cable got wad effect?
*
i have yet to find any conclusive evidence on this (either negative or positive)
so far as i can tell at the moment, the verdict is 'no effect on efficiency'
i wont comment on ICE performance or other stuff like that as im not into those things
my no.1 priority is to reduce fuel consumption...and so far the best options i have come up with is good engine tuning, good maintenance, proper driving habits, and most importantly,... a vacuum gauge! biggrin.gif
neosaint99
post Dec 13 2007, 08:52 PM

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QUOTE(andychan @ Dec 13 2007, 08:45 PM)
neosaint99 is it manual car dont have clutch oil?
i dono for other car lah but waja i see have it ?
*
usually manual uses dry clutch
is the waja a manual?
n r u sure it is clutch oil and not the automatic transmission oil?
if u r sure about it, then i'm very interested to know y the waja is using a wet clutch
usually low power transmissions only use wet clutch...like low cc bikes
even the 125cc and above nowdays try to go for dry clutch d hmm.gif
neosaint99
post Dec 13 2007, 09:00 PM

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QUOTE(the_catacombs @ Dec 13 2007, 08:53 PM)
u mean clutch pump ahh??... cars like waja n wira, they use hydraulic clutch pump... while ours use cable saja....
*
ohh,...u mean for the servo izit doh.gif hahaha
neosaint99
post Dec 13 2007, 10:48 PM

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QUOTE(singchaii @ Dec 13 2007, 09:53 PM)
about the fender bar, it drill there. But have you see how difficult to drill? Last time autogen wanna drill the hole there feel so tired. It need force in so hard then only the drill bit can go tru. Where we drill there, is the most hardest place among the whole body. Even thought if you use the power drill and drill 4wd vehicle also can go tru la. See like nothing can do, but it really gave alot of improvement. Try already then you know.  icon_rolleyes.gif
*
as i clearly stated at the begining,... im not denying that it improves performance

im just saying that its going to fatigue the metal
and ofcourse its hard to drill with a battery operated drill
the rpm is too low for the drill bit
those are HSS drill bits (high speed steel)
not meant for low rpm
as it is, the low rpm will make it hard to operate efficiently
and if they are constantly doing it, then the drill bit will most definitely be blunt due to the wrong operating conditions,... making it even worse
that is most likely why it was so 'hard' to go through
right tools for the right job bro...if not everything gets spoilt and the tools will not necessarily make life easier sweat.gif

also, you are saying that its the hardest place in the body
did u check and see if there was a mounting plate there for force distribution?
mounting/load points are always designed differently,...especially when it comes to dynamic loads
the place that they are drilling into doesnt have anything behind it
or they wouldnt be able to bolt the bar in
and since there was nothing there, there most likely wont be a mounting point there and thus no additional strength in that location
it will just be a normal pressed metal plate like everything else
this being the case, the strength would be the same and thus it in all likelihood wont be suitable for dynamic load bearing


QUOTE(singchaii @ Dec 13 2007, 09:53 PM)

Grounding cable not much effect. But if install it at some age car, you can feel it. The effect can give is,

-Better headlight. (Because the grounding enough. Even our oem headlamp also need grouding. Imagine using a tiny wire to grounding the headlamp with thicker wire, which is better?)
- ICE
- Engine start better. 1 crank jao start.
*
you have to understand that bigger is not always necessary
the light has a rated power draw
if the wire can support it, then a larger one is not required
if the draw is 5amps, then a 8 or 10amp wire will do
installing a 50amp wire will not make any difference innocent.gif

and another thing
the grounding wire is only the negative
if every1 is so for installing huge 100amp grounding wires, why not change all the positive wires to thick wires too?
wouldnt the 'tiny wire' supplying the power at the positive terminal of the light now be the bottle neck?
its a closed circuit
you just cant go and change half the loop and say it now has better capacity
and if the excuse is oxidation, then wouldnt the positive also be oxidized?
why not change that one too? whistling.gif

and bottom line,...the efficiency still does not improve

This post has been edited by neosaint99: Dec 13 2007, 10:54 PM
neosaint99
post Dec 13 2007, 11:44 PM

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QUOTE(camel90 @ Dec 13 2007, 11:09 PM)
hello guys/sifoos..

wana ask smthng. the CAI thingy, will it give same effect to my old saga with stock carburator same as the effect it gives to those EFI engine like wira 4g15?

i know the purpose of this CAI thingy is to suck in cold air instead of hot air that circulating under the hood. im just curious about the effect to my old carb saga. biggrin.gif

thanx in advance.
*
no matter how old your car is, if u r sucking in hot air now, the cold air will definitely make a difference
its basic thermodynamics icon_rolleyes.gif
neosaint99
post Dec 14 2007, 12:04 AM

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QUOTE(singchaii @ Dec 13 2007, 11:48 PM)
Why we need additional grounding?

First, why i said when installing grounding, my headlamp is brighter? My headlamp wiring had been change to 90/100w, while the stock grounding is not enough for me. it already proven to me, when installed additional grounding, my headlamp become better..

Another thing, when my car still stock, I installed ICE. Not much, just a 4 channel amplifier and a 12 double magnet woofer. When I turn it, the headlamp, meter light, even door lamp will blinking when the bass kick in. When after I installed the grounding, all those thing solved. That is another reason, stock grounding is not enough. It maybe enough for car which 100% stock. Thicker, doesn't mean the better. But if choose the thick compare with tiny, confirm the thicker is better that the tiny stock grounding cable. And one more thing, how you know my car all positive wiring is still stock wire?  whistling.gif  whistling.gif

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «



Added on December 13, 2007, 11:57 pmGuy.. Izit possible to get the old batch lmst side spoiler? I wanna buy it and put at my car. I feel with those side spoiler, it look better.
*
thats the thing
if wana talk bout cables, we should not just talk bout 'grounding cables'
should be basically rewiring

i dont think can get the side spoilers
coz if ppl wana take them out, then there will be holes in their car
its screwed into the side
mayb can get from half cut shop or from cars that have been totaled hmm.gif
neosaint99
post Dec 14 2007, 12:34 AM

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QUOTE(singchaii @ Dec 14 2007, 12:08 AM)
Drill hole to screw de meh? I thought double side tape? That also one of the proton parts. cannot get at Proton Spare part shop?
*
yeap
screwed in
atleast one screw each
on the horizontal part
rest i not sure how its held in
mayb can get from proton parts in glenmarie
not sure bout that tho hmm.gif
neosaint99
post Dec 14 2007, 06:33 PM

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QUOTE(dopeisgood @ Dec 14 2007, 01:38 AM)
kinda interested since its purpose suits mine.. hahah
erm.. yeah correct tuning should provide betta FC
not necessarily as proper tuning will give betta FC than normal carbie.. ultimately still depends on ur right leg..
yeah tats wat im reali into DGV instead of DCNF or DCOE.. haha
*
the weber lets in more air at the higher rpm
thats the whole point of the progressive double butterfly valve
but more air without more fuel will not produce more power
so if what everyone says is true that webers increase a car's power (and it is true), it also means that the car is burning more fuel along with the increase of air
so,...you do the math...


Added on December 14, 2007, 6:34 pm
QUOTE(virginslayer @ Dec 14 2007, 03:58 AM)
thanks...aish...din enter this thread for few days edy.
anyway,i didnt mod my car anything.
except for the brake,change to air brake.
nothing changes,can drive fast.depend how crazy i drive...
if super fast,puchong to sunway only 6minutes...that's the fastest i can go.
*
air brakes?!
u mean like lorry?
so now ur car got compressor ar
wat u had to change?
how much?
where you did? notworthy.gif


Added on December 14, 2007, 6:37 pm
QUOTE(camel90 @ Dec 14 2007, 09:40 AM)
when i was washing my clothes just now, i found this. its from washing machine by the way. but, if i want to mod it to become a CAI can ar? hahaha.....just curious only biggrin.gif

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

*
u should not use washing machine hose or vacuum cleaner hose for CAI
it is in the engine compartment and will be exposed to higher temps
you should use either temp resistant hoses, or just go get the ori CAI
click on the link in my siggy n check out the details there
not expensive wan to get good CAI done
very worth it
wink.gif


Added on December 14, 2007, 6:38 pm
QUOTE(yewwing @ Dec 14 2007, 11:06 AM)
That new saga is running 1.3cc with campro engine..If i m not mistaken..hehe

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


andy don't terminate me la..hehe i will stay here and spam
*
the gen2 campro very VERY rough
hope they improved the new one
if not,...really crap man
better drive 20year old jap car
doh.gif


Added on December 14, 2007, 6:45 pm
QUOTE(andychan @ Dec 14 2007, 12:00 PM)
go to autogen lah they can diy for you one happy.gif
*
erm,....just FYI,...."DIY" means "Do It Yourself"
going to a shop and asking some dude to fix it for you does not fall under that catogary
it would fall more under the catogary of,..."buying something with installation service charge included"
innocent.gif


Added on December 14, 2007, 6:50 pm
QUOTE(popopi @ Dec 14 2007, 02:50 PM)
erm, what s cv joint?? please enlighten me.....

where is that?
*
cv stand for constant velocity
when the car turns around a corner, the outer wheel spins faster than the inner wheel coz the outer wheel has a larger radius
if both wheels were just connected through a fixed gear train (they both spin at the same speed), the outer one would drag or the inner one would skid
both of these situations would cause you to lose control and to become very good friends with the nearest tree or ditch (whichever is closer)

the cv joint ensures that the outer wheel can turn faster than the inner wheel while still delivering torque to both wheels
ever wondered why when a car is jacked up u can turn one wheel and the other doesnt also turn?
or in some cases the other wheel will turn in the oposite direction even! tongue.gif
this is all thanks to the the cv joint
biggrin.gif


Added on December 14, 2007, 6:53 pm
QUOTE(the_catacombs @ Dec 14 2007, 05:40 PM)
it depends... if ur light is misalligned, even projector headlamp also useless...
chassis wont so easy break la.... unless if u put ur car under heavy stress all the time, for example playing drift n slide here n there.... this can accelerate metal fatigue.... icon_rolleyes.gif
*
erm,...the iswara doesnt have a chasis
a chasis is basically a metal frame onto which everything is built
lorrys n busses still do have chasis

many cars nowdays use channeled sheet metal
the body of the car is the frame
there is no discrete frame in the car

check out the delorean DMC12
it has a very unique chasis
really cool! thumbup.gif

This post has been edited by neosaint99: Dec 14 2007, 06:53 PM
neosaint99
post Dec 14 2007, 11:31 PM

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QUOTE(singchaii @ Dec 14 2007, 08:38 AM)
next time go there, help me ask something. hehe.


Added on December 14, 2007, 9:21 amAndy, your rear door dent not yet ketuk balik? come try this..
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


*
wow...thats some cool stuff right there shocking.gif


Added on December 15, 2007, 12:02 am
QUOTE(andychan @ Dec 14 2007, 07:12 PM)
sweat.gif  sweat.gif lolz really sifu even every single word also you judge properly  thumbup.gif

one word let you press until no sound out  whistling.gif

next time dont dare make any sound out  doh.gif
just like killer is it  brows.gif
*
hahaha
no lar bro
coz so many ppl using diy in wrong context
sory lar...ter-chose your msg to tembak
hehehe

chill chill laugh.gif


Added on December 15, 2007, 12:05 am
QUOTE(singchaii @ Dec 14 2007, 07:52 PM)
If no one around, postponed to next saturday lor. But, make sure we have a farewell TT for cerealkiller...
*
wah....where bijirin going?


Added on December 15, 2007, 12:05 am
QUOTE(singchaii @ Dec 14 2007, 10:06 PM)
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

*
wah...good review thumbup.gif


Added on December 15, 2007, 12:08 am
QUOTE(the_catacombs @ Dec 14 2007, 10:10 PM)
saga iswara chassis metal frame looks like this....

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «



Added on December 14, 2007, 10:13 pm
talk so much but no pics... shakehead.gif  shakehead.gif
*
hahaha
so sad that car kena strip kau kau
but yea...thats the frame already
no chassis in view anywhere tongue.gif

This post has been edited by neosaint99: Dec 15 2007, 12:08 AM
neosaint99
post Dec 15 2007, 01:12 AM

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QUOTE(the_catacombs @ Dec 15 2007, 12:50 AM)
muahahaha... after effect of a stolen car.... icon_rolleyes.gif
*
wah
how u know?...
u steal wan ar?... tongue.gif
neosaint99
post Dec 15 2007, 09:42 AM

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QUOTE(singchaii @ Dec 15 2007, 09:19 AM)
Bijirin going to continue his study lor.
*
ooo
benua mana?
neosaint99
post Dec 16 2007, 11:31 PM

^RedbluE^
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Senior Member
1,216 posts

Joined: Mar 2005


QUOTE(the_catacombs @ Dec 15 2007, 04:40 PM)
side-gapped sparkplugs... like this one..
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i sold a few already and receives good comments from them...

http://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopic=582529
*
wat brand u using n how much r they?
r they copper core?

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