You know, its funny how you're using a red herring to justify your statements.

Let's put it this way, why would there be a correlation between the lack of participation in Dawn of War tournaments due to Dota? Let me point out a few flaws in that connection you made:
1) Dota and DoW are not even in the same genre. What makes you think the disappearance of DotA will suddenly cause them to turn to DoW instead? Also, one key argument made by anti-Dota pundits is that said DotA players are too crap to play RTS' so that pretty much bolsters my point.
2) Lack of participation in a DoW tournament just means a lack of DoW players. Saying, "Dota's stealing them" is like Jack Thompson saying "GTA is increasing gun crimes among the youth!" This is what is known as a strawman argument. Making something out of something not relevant.

Look, I know you love DoW to death and hence hate Dota to the core, but that's what happens when you live in a country where the "gaming" population follows the trend more than what they really like. The only thing we can do is move on. Blaming the "pretty boy who gets all the girls" game isn't going to do any good.


All I have to say is, you guys need to stick to one line of argument. Either say:
a) Dota players are nubs who can't handle a real man's game like an RTS
or
b) A lot of Dota players are actually "stolen" from the RTS genre due to popularity

Using both just invalidates your whole case.

oh Johnny, is not stealing from them
is the trend of gaming environment influence them
u see Korea, most of them is still playing starcraft, because their prize money is tempting, therefore more and more player joining
Roma doesn't build in 1 day, it must be those player influence them, u try go Korea, ask them to play DotA, they won't give a damn to u, is because of the environment
Malaysia is the largest DotA community around the world if i'm not mistaken, every gamer here will know how to play, well this also depends on player interest, team game is fun, some sort like CS
FIFA u need great experience and skill, some gamer doesn't have, but look at DotA, even u are a "noob", with great teamwork will cover everything

no point to argue with if you dont see the logic here...

do you think game gendre really care? as long as one game is dominating, the other will fade away..

look at the pass, when CS is dominating, everyone, every cafe was playing that game. it was FPS game.
then MMORPG Helbreath.... game gendre does not really make any difference here.

and btw the discussion is really gone out of topic





i think you really think too much. i didnt mean that turn every Dota player to DoW player. what i mean here is, with the
existence of Dota, no chance to promote other game.



dont take this statement into the discussion, i never really think of promoting my favourite game here.

that's the correct situation now... u never really believe that DOTA does kill the other game? even starcraft in korea 'almost' killed every other game.
agree??

This post has been edited by johnnycp: Dec 8 2007, 03:32 AM

Lol, I'm speechless. lol why don't u tell me which games that dota really killed? Actually you are praising DOTA because you think dota is capable of killing other games. If Dota is so good and capable of killing other games I don't see any reason to exclude dota from WCG. During CS era, CS dominated and it can be included in WCG why not dota now? Since Dota is dominating the gaming scene now.

This post has been edited by oRoXoRo: Dec 8 2007, 04:53 AM

This is really seriously getting out of hand...

Yup. Bro Johnny and radkiller got point there. You guys pls stop comparing DotA in Malaysia with Starcraft in Korea.
Like Johnnycp said, in Malaysia gamers don't get enough exposure when it comes to competitive gaming. Hence, they fail to see the beauty of other games.

Unlike in our country, Korea got enough exposure when it comes to e-sports.
They have FIFA league broadcasted live on TV. During the glory days of WC3 they have MBC Prime League and TFT League broadcasted live on TV. If you guys have time to watch MBC Game and OGN channel, they have even weirder game broadcasted live on TV. Koreans were shown various types of competitive gaming on TV and yet they still love Starcraft. This is the evidence of Starcraft as a great game, not because they(Koreans) still live in 1998!!!!

Starcraft survived in Korea because it's the greatest and the most beautiful game to play and watch.
Boxer and his successors showed Koreans the beauty of Starcraft. Its not because of money like yhtan said.
These generation of pro gamers, from Boxer, NaDa, iloveoov, July,sAviOr to Bisu inspired ppl to play starcraft.
-Kids watching their hero play Starcraft on TV were inspired to become one of them.
-Girls become crazy when they watch their handsome hero play Starcraft.
-Young guys were inspired by the brilliance tactical display of these Starcraft players.
We see Starcraft as part of e-sports, but Koreans unconsciously view Starcraft as sports.

Unlike DotA, Starcraft is a living thing. Yes the graphics maybe from 1998, but the gameplay is 2007.
I think 95% of you still think that Starcraft is played the same way as it is 5 years ago. Heck even 2 years ago the gameplay was different. 3 years ago(6 years after the release of SC), we Starcraft players, don't know that Muta stacking exist . These past 9 years Starcraft has evolved, and no its not because of the patch but because of the pro gamers. Starcraft dont kill other games in Korea. Other games fail in Korea because they're not up to Starcraft's standard.

Is DotA as great as Starcraft? No one can answer that. We dont know because majority of our gamers only play DotA, and like some of you said, some DotA players dont even play RTS or genre. Majority of our gamers are close minded. So imo, its no use to compare our community with Korean community.

I believe this is what Johnnycp and radkiller are trying to say when they said DotA killed other games.

reason why DOTA is still alive is similiar to why WOW is so hugely popular. Dota is always updating.
New versions means new heroes, skills, weapons etc. Every version is a different experience.
There is an official forum for DOTA where player rant out their imba and suggestions, and the devs do take them into consideration for the next version. New versions of Dota releases very often.

again, don't compare it to Starcraft. I don't understand Koreans.

Other games, such as Dawn Of War, is just that. Although we do get 'Balancing patches' once ina blue moon. You know as much as I do those patches sucks. Dawn of war is terribly unbalanced. Its easier for a Necron and Tau player to get far compared to the other 'lower tier' races. It doesn't make the game more fun, it makes it more frustrating. And all your rant falls on deaf ears in Relic forum.

also DOW patches don't come with new units/weapons until the next expansion. Its the same imba game again and again.

...oh and Dota is FREE.



note : I'm not a DOTA fan, but I used to like dota (the very first version which was done by Eul, not Guinsoo or icefrogwtfever). I hate the current dota thank to the ahbengz attitude of the players.

This post has been edited by Sichiri: Dec 8 2007, 11:28 AM

Especially the anti-dota ones . 2007 is coming to an end . It's about time to give up on your sentiments that Dota is killing other games . People like Rin have pointed out that their game community in growing , which in this case is FIFA . Take a look at the section this thread is under . There is growing support for other games as well . Hell , even o2jam made it big when Dota was growing . It's no wonder it's hard for other games to grow when instead of having people promote the game , they just go off and QQ about another game . Contrary to popular believe , it is possible for a couple of games to thrive at the same time . Eg - WoW + DotA + FIFA + CS . Think oligopoly and stop pointing fingers when your game doesn't make it . There could be reasons like the ones mentioned above , its just imbalanced and no one really does anything about it .

This post has been edited by Heemee: Dec 8 2007, 11:58 AM

^ CAPTAIN OBVIOUS!
Of course those games can thrive at the same time!



WoW : MMORPG
DotA : Hybrid RPG
FIFA : football sim
CS : FPS


unless everybody in the world is the same, different genre perference is always there lar!

back to topic : DOTA in WCG? no thanks! Theres no Global competition anyway.

This post has been edited by Sichiri: Dec 8 2007, 12:33 PM

But it would seem that a few of the earlier posters needed some aid to realize that point

This post has been edited by Heemee: Dec 8 2007, 12:41 PM

why would u say no global competition?

I think johnnycp is just pissed at the suggestion of DOTA in WORLD CYBER GAMES.

Dota is not even a REAL game. Its just a custom map for Warcraft 3.(told a thousanth times) But people a treating it as if Dota is THE GAME and not Warcraft 3. Going as far to say "lol blizzard copy dota", "Dota is the best game in the world!", and my favorite "LOL why Blizzard not make DOTA 2?"

anyway we can all rest our minds, DOTA will NEVER. I repeat, NEVER make it into international gaming. Its just not qualified. The most you can have is propably local-level tournament or inter-SEA at most.

Unless Icefrog decides to make a standalone retail version of Dota.

---

Added on December 8, 2007, 1:28 pmcustom map for WC3 = not qualified for international gaming

This post has been edited by Sichiri: Dec 8 2007, 01:28 PM

local level tournament ? u mean only in malaysia?

if really that bad.. DoW never really got chance to get into WCG 2005 and 2006.
even WCG singapore got DoW..

alright stop talkign DoW.. let see WCG2008 got any other RTS game competition other than starcraft and warcraft3.

Thats it...done...no more need for any arguments...

if DotA really did make into WCG...Rest assured that we can't do sh*t about it...

Off topic : Anyone else beside me really praying hard for Unreal 3 in WCG2008?

I really missed the classic fast-paced frag-em-all! style FPS.

---

Added on December 8, 2007, 2:40 pmYes. You really don't think they'll sponsor you to LA/Korea/Germany to play in a DOTA world championship grand finals with a USD100,000 price money do you?


This post has been edited by Sichiri: Dec 8 2007, 02:40 PM

I was waiting for Quake to show....disappointed...

UT3 to show....I'm not getting my hopes up....

Lol, I'm not the 1 started comparing Dota and SC in Korea. Because Dota is just a mod map that's why you guys complain so much lol. I think anti-dota players are the one that should be more open-minded. All the long posts u guys posted makes no sense.
"Starcraft dont kill other games in Korea. Other games fail in Korea because they're not up to Starcraft's standard." Funny reasoning.

DoW cant get into WCG is because there is not enough players to vote for it. Now, please open up ur mind and think logically. What we asking here is to get more players to support dota and if ur DoW/other games is good it will still be included in WCG. DOTA is not that powerful till it can kill CS or watever shits. It's just another game in its own genre.

This post has been edited by oRoXoRo: Dec 8 2007, 04:46 PM

What's so funny about it?
Well, i dont blame you if you fail to see the greatness of Starcraft.

The best way to compare Starcraft in Korea is to compare it with American Football in the States.

Long time ago i dont understand Americans. How can they watch nonsense game like American Football.
And how stupid of them to call it football when you carry the ball with your hand. Only Americans play the game. The rest of the world play soccer(real football). It shows how ignorant Americans are.

But later when i understand the rules and how the game is played, my opinion change.
American Football is one of the most entertaining spectators sport to me. I finally understand why Americans love this game so much.

BS. Its not about the vote, its about money. You think being a great game and enough vote, the game will make into wcg? Not to mention the voting system is crap.

Rin also seems to credit his community too much. Its true their community are making large effort but thats not why their games made into WCG. FIFA got free ticket to WCG because they're made by EA.

Because i came from WE/PES community i know how BS WCG system are. Some of us have this anti-FIFA sentiment. Why?, from our point of view our game is better than FIFA. Its not hard to distinguish which is better game when both are football sim. Plus EA is so ***** for patenting some of their game element. If Konami did the same long time ago, todays FIFA game will become a dysfunctional footy sim. Many element of modern FIFA actually were taken from WE/PES.

This post has been edited by RtP|DEV: Dec 8 2007, 06:47 PM

so far i dont see any cybercafe loaded with UT3. i was hardcore UT back in 1999.
it was the only game taht dont required CD-KEY to play online lol.

looks like the chances to promote this game is very thin.eventhough we can gather 20people
play on certain cyber cafe every weekend, dont think it will make any differences. Unless
someone rich enough to sponsor some mini tourney/friendly match/league

---

Added on December 8, 2007, 8:20 pmim sure u are guessing it. You got no idea how many players back then wrote letter to In2 hope that they will make DoW into WCG. even the 2v2 National tourney held by New Era back then got 32players participate.

This post has been edited by johnnycp: Dec 8 2007, 08:20 PM