"im sure u are guessing it. You got no idea how many players back then wrote letter to In2 hope that they will make DoW into WCG. even the 2v2 National tourney held by New Era back then got 32players participate." I'm not guessing it as i did vote for CS,SC every year. Now u see what situation those dota fans is in. We are now gathering more players to send letter TO ICM. Anything wrong with that? DoW have no attitute problem players?(Some using this reason)

To RtP|DEV, I know what is happening in Korea. But what you don't understand is Dota didnt kill other games as claimed. So, I would say u didnt understand dota that much and other games are not up to Dota's standard. Can?

If WCG is using the vote system now, I will just vote. If they abuse it, by giving privilege to some game, I don't really care as long as I did my contribution to vote. During last year(or last last year) CS also nearly out of the list due to low votes but in the end the votes caught up.

It's very obvious that you all are biased. It is actually the same situation with other games but because its Dota you are giving some irrelevant reasons. I can live without Dota and still hoping for a better games but I don't give lame reasons if I hate that game.

This post has been edited by oRoXoRo: Dec 8 2007, 08:45 PM

Look up DreamHack winter . Yes the same dreamhack as the recent 3v3 WoW arena tournament . Or http://forums.dota-allstars.com/index.php?showforum=402 for that matter . Companies like Intel have already taken notice of Dota . Hell even teams like Pandemic and MYM (formerly Curse on WoW EU) has its Dota team . So I think , yes , Dota has made it into international gaming . Just a matter now if it makes it into the WCG or not .

Huh?????, see, you're guessing it. Your vote is yours alone.
Did WCG release statistical data on votes every year? Prove me wrong here. They don't dare because it'll show how f#@*ed up their system is.


Read the whole post #106 again.
I said we dont know about that because majority of our gamers play DotA. Why? influence from friend maybe. Maybe because most CC got DotA. My point in post #106 is we don't get enough exposure when it comes to other games compared to Koreans. In Korea other games were given chance, but in our country they're not. So my claim that other games are not up to par compared to starcraft make sense.

I also have real life experience on this issue.

I manage to get some of my DotA player friends that never really understand the true mechanics of RTS, play Starcraft. At first they were a bit skeptical about SC. They told me they already played the game before, the game is too old and the graphics is an eyesore . Then i explain to them the essence of RTS, how SC 1vs1 is played, i even introduce them to Korean pro scene.

They were amazed by the amount required to master Starcraft and the beauty of the game they've not seen before. Later they've become addicted to Starcraft, play on iccup and practice online everyday. If you asked them now what they think about DotA compared to SC, i guarantee you they'll say DotA is a crappy game.

You can insert SC with any other games here. Actually they're many great games that have potential, but because we live in DotA Mad Nation those games died.


So you're suggesting it ok to have "Tak Apa" mentality. Then when you vote on other genre, i'm sure you just vote any game that you think deserve to be included as official games. By voting other genre that you don't even play, you actually kill all the efforts made by other games community that actually deserve a spot in WCG. This is the biggest flaw of the voting system.

Why on earth are you turning this into a my game > your game thread ?

U and yr friends are a tiny bunch to conclude that dota is a crappy game. If its so crappy y on earth is everybody so into it ? Mayb all of them have crappy tastes ? different genres of games should not be compared. all they are trying to do is to get dota into WCG, vote if u support thats that. U wont get yr fav game anywher by bringing another one down.

Had a really rough day today... and what do I come back to?

Very interesting point and something I've been trying to downplay for a long time.

This is why I don't really get that "into" competitive gaming... Its not worth it. I'll just be busy playing games for fun


Anyway, guys, can you please stop bringing up "Dota is not a game" arguments. Seriously, if you want to argue why Dota isn't suitable for tournaments and whatnot, argue about its gameplay elements or balance issues... Not just dismiss it solely over the fact that it requires another game to run.

Because that's like you saying "Mods aren't games and are lame"... And there's nothing I hate more than anti-mod bigotry.

So, I'll let this continue even with all the "My game can beat your game in a punch up fight" discussions but anymore talks on "Dota is just a custom map" and prepare yourself for the banhammer. You want to talk about that, take it to a new thread.

I can say you're the same when you only read my last post, and then conclude that me and my friends are that type of person. Pls read my post before that post of mine to understand the relation between my post.

Did i? People say learn to listen or be a good listener. In this case since we're on a forum, i say learn to read!!!
Thats the type of reply we'll get when you read with the intent to reply back, not to understand the context as a whole.

My point is:

Let say you go to a restaurant with your friend.
You order you usual favorite(DotA), your friend orders different kind of meal(other games).
When you get what you ordered, your friend asked you;
"Wanna taste mine?"
You reply;
"Nah nevermind."
Your Friend;
"Come on have a bite."
You;
"I think i'll have to pass. I'm sure it wont taste good. "

This is the scenario that happened in our country.
See, this is what i mean when i say majority of our gamers are close minded.

In Korea they taste it before they judge. It might not be to their liking but they taste it!!!

This post has been edited by RtP|DEV: Dec 9 2007, 12:29 AM

even eMg gaming (US team that represent US for CS this year) have their own dota which is the best in North America right now... even russian VP (represent russia for CS) has their own dota team!

XcN that sponsors indonesia no.1 CS team also have their own Dota team..

SK gaming from sweden also have their dota team...

MYM , WE ,xQr , and many more

even a gaming community website gotfrag have recently added DOTA into their website...

I would give you the same advice . Your posts have been preaching on the greatness of Starcraft and how other games are not worthy . You even went as far as to infer WE > FIFA . So yea , please go back and reread it . Your posts show a bunch of irrelevant points about starcraft and an already biased mindset . So please , continue talking about 'closed minds' . I mean , bringing your dislike for a game into a thread which asks for support for that particular game simply screams open-mindedness . Hypocrisy at its best .

I never said its bcoz of that FIFA is in WCG, Im saying DOTA didnt killed FIFA thts all.

I donno if FIFA were not in WCG how would things be now i wont know.. maybe bcoz of tht we have the stepping stone.

But even if its not in WCG, i'll still play FIFA.. the reason i 1st started play FIFA is not bcoz of WCG, its bcoz i like it. I believe u still play WE/starcraft too regardless of if its in a tourney or not if u have the same reason as i am.

Im being honest with my feelings and thts how i felt. Plus i never even envy other games bcoz i dun have any reason to be. I play DOTA,FIFA,BF2142,CM,O2jam,Diner Dash,yahoo chess and sum other games which i like.


As i said b4 if u really like the games tht u played just play it.Enjoy it. U dun have to go screw ppl around saying other games are bad or wht so eva.


For me, all games has its own advantages and disadvantages and have its own target community. If u are a simple gamer so its obvious u like simple games. So there is no reason to be jealous or wht so eva.

And im not being bias,bcoz i do feel some of the DOTA players are as wht the anti-DOTA here r saying "not gentleman". But its not just DOTA players,FIFA,CS also has this kind of ppl. Its not bcoz of the games.Its the person itself. If u say its bcoz of the game, try ask ur parents or ur sisters to play and c if they suddenly turn into this creatures.

If the person has a nice heart, he will be nice no matter what.

I wonder if Diner Dash will be voted in WCG! lol ^^

This post has been edited by Rin @ si_jali: Dec 9 2007, 02:15 AM

To RtP|DEV,

1st of all, If i remember correctly, there is those polls that show the total votes of every games. But since Im not so sure I will not comment about it.

2nd, I think most gamers do have exposure to other games. Myself for example do play all the new games. If your frens are those playing for fun type, then of cause they will only follow the majority. As what stated by Rin @ si_jali a gamer himself, can prove this. I would say that only your frens didn't have the exposure because they are just casual gamers. Since we are talking about tournaments, I focus more on those pro gamers.

3rd, I think u misunderstood my statement. Im not having the "tak apa"mentality. It's just if WCG abused the voting system, there is nothing we can do right? We can only vote for our fav games. You maybe right about the voting system( that its NG ).

Your mindset aldy set. That we(dota players) are mindless people that follow the majority. It's totally wrong. Casual gamers are those that will follow the majority and it's their choice. To make it short, ur opinions is that we didn't have enough exposure to other games = WRONG. To make our e-sport/e-gaming successful, gamers itself need to be supportive to games that he/she likes and don't like. Your type of mentality will only hinders the progress of the e-sport. For myself, I quit from joining competition but I still hope Dota will be successful.

This post has been edited by oRoXoRo: Dec 9 2007, 03:50 AM

when is WcG 2008 held?

I brought Starcraft into this topic because some ppl start comparing DotA in Malaysia with Starcraft in Korea.
Since i play Starcraft and follow the scene, i feel its my job to enlighten people that Koreans are not from Mars.

Im not preaching about the greatness of Starcraft. After all the things i wrote on post #106 about why Koreans love Starcraft, oRoXoRo quoted my bolded conclusion and said it was funny reasoning. Thats why i replied in post #119;
"What's so funny about it?
Well, i dont blame you if you fail to see the greatness of Starcraft."
Sarcasm should be replied with sarcasm.

As for WE > FIFA thing, i merely state that some of us from WE/PES community have these sentiment. I dont mean to directly said that WE > FIFA. Im done with WE > FIFA long time ago. If i said most Malaysian are racist, ppl will get angry. People can deny it, but its true. Its the same for how ppl in WE/PES community feel.

ive send about 10-20 emails already to the main WCG. no need send to in2 unless dota is in wcg already.

You know why your reasoning is funny? It's because when those Koreans are all hype in playing SC and its correct because other games can't beat SC as stated by you. But when Malaysians are all hype about Dota, it's NG. See why? It's the same situation but when one is biased, nothing much can be done.
This thread is all about sending mails to ICM(not in2). Dunno where the TS went. *sudah hilang*

the threadstarter, flizzardo, just post around la. its hard for him to come back in this thread. i think he never realize that his tread has become a flame baiting thread.

Wow! This thread had became more and more sentimental and emotional.

Going back to our initial topic, whether a game goes to WCG World Final are multifactorial just like in :-

F = wA + xB + yC + zD + ........ etc

where F = Game that successfully being listed for the Final.

by example :-
A = Publisher/ Sponsor influence
B = Players factor
C = Fan/ Spectators viewing capasity
D = Organising country
E =? F=? G=? .........

w, x, y, z, .... = constant

Writing to ICM may be a good initiative plan however, other factors (multi) may bear more weightage than this.

The interesting facts, it is not the factorS (A, B, C, D ...)that count only but also the determing contants (w, x, y, z).

In short of all the factors/ plans that we have discussed, which factor have a bigger say (depends which factor had a higher constant) ?

This post has been edited by CityLife: Dec 10 2007, 05:21 PM

Serious Gaming have just added RedBear for their roster

http://dota.gosugamers.net/news/serious_gaming_adds_redbear

more n more gaming giants adding dota teams to their roster now...

but threadstarter's spirit will still remain !

yeah, i hope all the gamers out there realise that dota is here to STAY.