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 Help me Understand a Rebellous Subordinate

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sp3d2
post Jul 7 2024, 08:20 AM

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QUOTE(Rorschach85 @ Jul 7 2024, 08:12 AM)
gone are the good old days when things can easily settled by fist fight outside the garden.
*
This kind of person to that TS is dealing is kind of cunning but no so cunning. As we can really predict their next moves.

TS is the boss here, so he should be more careful.

I had one subordinate like this before, I chose not to fight, but to put back the pressure on him, then finally he resigned.
seinganchai
post Jul 7 2024, 08:32 AM

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Talk to HR , make sure you get enough evidence / 3 strikes before you let her go. Always do counselling session until she ready resign or get sacked. Make sure it is minuted and sent to HR.
farisq
post Jul 7 2024, 08:37 AM

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Seems like a person who doesn't like to be managed. maybe not suitable to work in a team. Does she behave like this with other superior/bosses or just with you...?
Blofeld
post Jul 7 2024, 09:12 AM

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insubordination is already considered a misconduct in the office, grounds for termination.

do the same on her, keep all records of evidence that points to her poor performance and misconducts.

these are the tricks i have seen a company trying to get rid of someone

last time when my company wants to get rid of a manager (cakap saja but cannot do work one), they dig out all his internet surfing logs and attendance timing (late to office).

another one (this one was a good manager but somehow had a fall out with the top). They added an additional portfolio to her existing portfolio, creating a burden for her. She had to resign.

another one (i dont know him well enough). They transferred him to another department and made him do the dirty and dangerous job around the company. He had to resign.

another one (another good guy-manager, but somehow couldn't get along with the big boss) Big boss humiliated and shouted at him almost everyday until he resigned.

If it's poor performance, make sure you give her the timing for improvement.

if it's gross misconduct, make sure there is a committee that oversees the investigation.

This post has been edited by Blofeld: Jul 7 2024, 09:26 AM
TSgashout
post Jul 7 2024, 12:23 PM

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QUOTE(sp3d2 @ Jul 7 2024, 08:20 AM)
This kind of person to that TS is dealing is kind of cunning but no so cunning. As we can really predict their next moves.

TS is the boss here, so he should be more careful.

I had one subordinate like this before, I chose not to fight, but to put back the pressure on him, then finally he resigned.
*
pressure i can only put on her work quality, which is so shitty, so that is easy.

QUOTE(seinganchai @ Jul 7 2024, 08:32 AM)
Talk to HR , make sure you get enough evidence / 3 strikes before you let her go. Always do counselling session until she ready resign or get sacked. Make sure it is minuted and sent to HR.
*
gathering evidence is so time consuming. all her behaviors have been recorded into the system.

she can deny them but i doubt that would work - cause all is truth!


QUOTE(farisq @ Jul 7 2024, 08:37 AM)
Seems like a person who doesn't like to be managed. maybe not suitable to work in a team. Does she behave like this with other superior/bosses or just with you...?
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if you are smart, i won't manage much.

But if you are bodoh, then act like I need to answer to you even when I am your superior, you are very delusional.

I did ask her if I should be the one who manages her or she would like to manage me.

She behaves like this in front of everyone else now, which is GREAT. cause all her true colors is shown. She has now pissed off many people. Neither do I need to try and hide her ugliness by sorting out this problem of hers.

QUOTE(Blofeld @ Jul 7 2024, 09:12 AM)
insubordination is already considered a misconduct in the office, grounds for termination.

do the same on her, keep all records of evidence that points to her poor performance and misconducts.

these are the tricks i have seen a company trying to get rid of someone

last time when my company wants to get rid of a manager (cakap saja but cannot do work one), they dig out all his internet surfing logs and attendance timing (late to office).

another one (this one was a good manager but somehow had a fall out with the top). They added an additional portfolio to her existing portfolio, creating a burden for her. She had to resign.

another one (i dont know him well enough). They transferred him to another department and made him do the dirty and dangerous job around the company. He had to resign.

another one (another good guy-manager, but somehow couldn't get along with the big boss) Big boss humiliated and shouted at him almost everyday until he resigned.

If it's poor performance, make sure you give her the timing for improvement.

if it's gross misconduct, make sure there is a committee that oversees the investigation.
*
I had designed a good project for her, then she mislead and somehow made her project looks 1/3 of mine, which is very low quality, then she took 1 month to argue with me again.

Then she quickly finished her work (terrible work as it's done in one evening) and demanded I to meet her.

I refused, insisting her to get on with her work and she still sent the meeting invite which I would reject. - I told you, she thinks she is the boss.

I am cautious giving additional pressure to her as she will be filing complains that I intentionally try to fail her in her progress and work completion. She can't even deliver the basic, so that is good!
hksgmy
post Jul 7 2024, 12:29 PM

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That’s why I personally prefer the hard sciences with objective quantifiable results. For instance in medicine, primadonnas are tolerated and in fact respected if they continue to demonstrate exceptional skills - say the surgeon that can map out an approach to remove a tumour close to the spinal cord while minimising peripheral collateral damage.

Showbloating fakers get called out quickly because post operative outcomes are dismal and the mediolegal complaints quickly pile up.

It’s a self governing profession to a certain extent.

I don’t know what is it exactly you do, but I have the impression it’s not dealing with one of the hard sciences if you know what I mean. That’s why your Thai colleague has gotten away with her narcissistic primadonna “look at me but don’t look at me” bad attitude.

She wouldn’t have lasted a day if I were her boss.
empyreal
post Jul 7 2024, 12:40 PM

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You're definitely a patient man. The person is just deadweight and takes more of the company's (i.e. your) resources than what she's contributing.

Recommend for pip and send her to hr to be rotated someplace else.
hksgmy
post Jul 7 2024, 12:44 PM

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QUOTE(empyreal @ Jul 7 2024, 12:40 PM)
You're definitely a patient man. The person is just deadweight and takes more of the company's (i.e. your) resources than what she's contributing.

Recommend for pip and send her to hr to be rotated someplace else.
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That’s like tai chi’Ing her off to someone else’s turf for her to be a problem there hahaha
empyreal
post Jul 7 2024, 02:11 PM

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QUOTE(hksgmy @ Jul 7 2024, 12:44 PM)
That’s like tai chi’Ing her off to someone else’s turf for her to be a problem there hahaha
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I like to say I'm delegating the problem to someone with more patience lol
TSgashout
post Jul 7 2024, 03:10 PM

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QUOTE(hksgmy @ Jul 7 2024, 12:29 PM)
That’s why I personally prefer the hard sciences with objective quantifiable results. For instance in medicine, primadonnas are tolerated and in fact respected if they continue to demonstrate exceptional skills - say the surgeon that can map out an approach to remove a tumour close to the spinal cord while minimising peripheral collateral damage.

Showbloating fakers get called out quickly because post operative outcomes are dismal and the mediolegal complaints quickly pile up.

It’s a self governing profession to a certain extent.

I don’t know what is it exactly you do, but I have the impression it’s not dealing with one of the hard sciences if you know what I mean. That’s why your Thai colleague has gotten away with her narcissistic primadonna “look at me but don’t look at me” bad attitude.

She wouldn’t have lasted a day if I were her boss.
*
No hard science to it. Life isn't always black and white.

You know how this land is so accommodating criminals and offenders than the innocents have to suffer most time.

QUOTE(hksgmy @ Jul 7 2024, 12:44 PM)
That’s like tai chi’Ing her off to someone else’s turf for her to be a problem there hahaha
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QUOTE(empyreal @ Jul 7 2024, 02:11 PM)
I like to say I'm delegating the problem to someone with more patience lol
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If I pass her to someone else, I'll inform the other person her whole package.

This isn't about the question on patience anymore.
cfa28
post Jul 7 2024, 03:32 PM

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just sack her but be careful as she might be sucking someone c0ck to be so arrogant
TSgashout
post Jul 7 2024, 03:38 PM

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QUOTE(cfa28 @ Jul 7 2024, 03:32 PM)
just sack her but be careful as she might be sucking someone c0ck to be so arrogant
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She has a few white superiors whom she tricked before with her gullible innocent Thai girl look

Too bad, all her behaviors towards me is now known to everyone.

I don't want to cover for a perpetrator anymore. She poops, and she has to clean her own shit.
hksgmy
post Jul 7 2024, 03:44 PM

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QUOTE(cfa28 @ Jul 7 2024, 03:32 PM)
just sack her but be careful as she might be sucking someone c0ck to be so arrogant
*
Oh yes. The classic “courage by c0ck slurping” syndrome of many an Asian AMDK lover.
TSgashout
post Jul 7 2024, 03:47 PM

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QUOTE(hksgmy @ Jul 7 2024, 03:44 PM)
Oh yes. The classic “courage by c0ck slurping” syndrome of many an Asian AMDK lover.
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this also brings to another awareness by a colleague of mine

he is also very aware that she isn't happy she is placed under me, instead of a AMDK.

Talk about asian woman hating their own people. It's shocking to many to hear my stories, because they thought we would have worked well together due to similar culture and background.
CyberSetan
post Jul 7 2024, 04:04 PM

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TL DR

if she is too much of hassle - just fire her. (get some reasonable reasons, otherwise she can sue back)
sp3d2
post Jul 7 2024, 04:10 PM

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QUOTE(gashout @ Jul 7 2024, 12:23 PM)
pressure i can only put on her work quality, which is so shitty, so that is easy.
so you win already.

the fact she treat you like that is just because you allowed her to behave like that. thats all.
silverhawk
post Jul 7 2024, 04:19 PM

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QUOTE(gashout @ Jul 6 2024, 04:26 PM)
- always sends documents attached to cloud and she often makes changes to it (leaving no trail of her terrible work)
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Incase you didn't know

Most cloud services for document storage/sharing/workflow have version history. So whatever stupid shit she did and saved in the cloud before, will be available for organisation to see. If you're using something like sharepoint, as long as you view access, you should also be able to view history.

QUOTE(gashout @ Jul 6 2024, 05:47 PM)
Underperform and huge ego. Then ask me to submit to her. Then she will direct the meeting. But she looks so stupid in the meeting because she had no idea what she's doing. And when I correct her, she finds it offensive. But if I don't, she will blame me later on that I didn't guide her well.
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If she's under you, then she's conlanfirm super bodoh.

I've purposely gave enough rope for incompetent people to hang themselves infront of important people during meetings. Followed up with meeting minutes email having that incompetence recorded and signed off in black and white. Sometimes you tell higher ups that this fella is sohai, no one really believes (they think people playing politic) to do anything until they see it themselves.

QUOTE(hksgmy @ Jul 7 2024, 12:29 PM)
That’s why I personally prefer the hard sciences with objective quantifiable results. For instance in medicine, primadonnas are tolerated and in fact respected if they continue to demonstrate exceptional skills - say the surgeon that can map out an approach to remove a tumour close to the spinal cord while minimising peripheral collateral damage.

Showbloating fakers get called out quickly because post operative outcomes are dismal and the mediolegal complaints quickly pile up.

It’s a self governing profession to a certain extent.

I don’t know what is it exactly you do, but I have the impression it’s not dealing with one of the hard sciences if you know what I mean. That’s why your Thai colleague has gotten away with her narcissistic primadonna “look at me but don’t look at me” bad attitude.

She wouldn’t have lasted a day if I were her boss.
*
Like Dr. House! laugh.gif

Though I know you doctors sometimes also face this issue, dealing with the "softer" more "political" side of things that hinder you from doing your job properly or having the patient's interest at heart. So sometimes really no choice when you have to deal with idiots in admin/management. All jobs also the same laugh.gif
TSgashout
post Jul 7 2024, 04:43 PM

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QUOTE(sp3d2 @ Jul 7 2024, 04:10 PM)
so you win already.

the fact she treat you like that is just because you allowed her to behave like that. thats all.
*
i need to be careful as others are watching how i manage her. i shouldn't even show a hint of misuse of power.


QUOTE(silverhawk @ Jul 7 2024, 04:19 PM)
Incase you didn't know

Most cloud services for document storage/sharing/workflow have version history. So whatever stupid shit she did and saved in the cloud before, will be available for organisation to see. If you're using something like sharepoint, as long as you view access, you should also be able to view history.
If she's under you, then she's conlanfirm super bodoh.

I've purposely gave enough rope for incompetent people to hang themselves infront of important people during meetings. Followed up with meeting minutes email having that incompetence recorded and signed off in black and white. Sometimes you tell higher ups that this fella is sohai, no one really believes (they think people playing politic) to do anything until they see it themselves.
Like Dr. House! laugh.gif

Though I know you doctors sometimes also face this issue, dealing with the "softer" more "political" side of things that hinder you from doing your job properly or having the patient's interest at heart. So sometimes really no choice when you have to deal with idiots in admin/management. All jobs also the same laugh.gif
*
she always embarrasses herself in her every of her chess move, and with her not wanting to talk to me in private and prefer to talk to me in a group, and in group emails. ok, i have her wish come true.

don't cry i am a bully after that.
sp3d2
post Jul 7 2024, 04:48 PM

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QUOTE(gashout @ Jul 7 2024, 04:43 PM)
i need to be careful as others are watching how i manage her. i shouldn't even show a hint of misuse of power.
trust me. she is playing with your mind and will try her best to make sure you lost your sanity.

keep your friends close and your enemy closer. micromanage her activities and monitor her every single daily movements and activity. she will get frustrated. trust me.
TSgashout
post Jul 7 2024, 04:50 PM

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QUOTE(sp3d2 @ Jul 7 2024, 04:48 PM)
trust me. she is playing with your mind and will try her best to make sure you lost your sanity.

keep your friends close and your enemy closer. micromanage her activities and monitor her every single daily movements and activity. she will get frustrated. trust me.
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she is, lots of gaslight happening, with her innocent pitiful look like she hasn't done anything wrong.

i did do that, she then asked - are you going to update you everyday?

then she once did say I micromanage her, as I ask for weekly updates which is very common and normal.

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