I want vote against, but need to think about solid solution to settle the shit also

I cant get what you mean, does it mean you mail me the form, and i need to submit to them b4 the date line? Or i just hold your original copy and attend the meeting?

Just one question here, have any grower visit the gua musang estate b4? And, can share your view here? Is it really suck like the proposal mention?

There is no one else but PGCB themselves. If PGCB themselves do not wish to carry on with this Gua Musang plantation because of lack of managers and workers, etc...then there is really no alternative but termination of CHGS. It would be termination on what terms - take the VT now or negotiate for better terms.

LKY is BADASS to force this down on us Growers before CNY. Maybe PGCB really have no cash to pay over RM20million on Valentine Day, and LKY money talks louder than his dignity (was there any) here.

It did not happen overnight, read the plantation expert status report in the current Prospectus available on CHGS website. The latest one was dated 25 May 2012 is not rosy.
An earlier Prospectus issued in 2010 with status report dated 17 Sep 2010 has already mentioned some problems. There are good progress between these two reports - CHGS plantation is viable and operating. However its future seems not to be able to support PGCB continue paying us high 10-12% yield based on high CPO average prices. PGCB other plantation in lahad datu is doing better. This is where LKY pull the plug out and offer to buyback. He is cutting their losses. They do not want to bleed for us despite whatever was promised in the Prospectus. Money talks louder than their collective dignities. LKY would already has some plans for this Gua Musang plantation. It is still viable, the expert status reports said so.

I'm really working OT on this. I have only seen some photos online, and read the status reports included in the Prospectus.
IMHO, the VT Proposal is painting a much more dire picture to get us to vote FOR.
Even Andrew Heng of that big time firm chooses his words to paint a bad financial picture of the plantation, esp. note in page 6 of his report 2nd para.
"reporting a loss after tax in four out of six years". He knows the fact that CHGS is in incubating stage and profits were increasing yearly since 2009.

He did explain with many words at the end of the para. that the plantation is still young hinting on its future profitability.

This post has been edited by mkhor7: Jan 23 2013, 10:43 PM

The Proxy Form can appoint someone, who if do not turn up, the Chairman of the meeting must use count your vote according to your instruction.

I was thinking more about ensuring no hidden hands preventing my proxy form said to be "lost in the mail", etc . There is no control here.

The extra original form is for your keeping. Preferably the Company Secretary can acknowledge receipt on your copy.

Whatever, it must be received by them before 10am on Feb-6. We can post directly to them if there is some inconvenience for you to deliver the form.

Update:
Please send fast by courier your signed proxy form to MSWG office which can be found in later posting.
MSWG will organize a group of proxy holder to vote on your behalf.

This post has been edited by mkhor7: Jan 31 2013, 09:57 PM

I just talk to my mom who works in a lawyer office...and yes, she is also an investor of CHGS.
After looking at the big picture and taking much consideration, I have change my mind to vote "FOR".
In simple terms, 10% for the 1st 30 days. another 90% will be distributed within to years.
If PGCB does not have enough cash to pay back to the investor, Bee Garden will act as an guarantor to step in and settle the amount.
Based on coming 2 years of calculation, Bee Garden is capable of paying back the full amount.

On the other hand, voting AGAINST will result in trustee stepping in to resolved this.
What I am worried is that PGCB will no longer take charge, trustee will look for a new management or something.
And this kind of thing will go for years while the funds being depleted year after year due to professional fees, this fees, that fees.
In the end if it doesn't work out, PGCB will go for last resort of winding up the company, so it makes no difference to their proposal now except longer years.
At that time, wherever asset that they have will be distributed back to the investors.
It might be lower than the 90% that was proposed in the circular.

See if I have the time I will post it up in an image format for better understanding.
A picture is more than a thousand words.
So end of the day, I'm voting FOR and this is just my opinion.

you have a point here mate. but, you are "literally" being steered into accepting the proposals, which I think it does not serve the rights of a minority.

this is just another classic case of minority always being out-played by the big guns.

speaking of which, would really appreciate if you can post the picture of yours for our reference.

I have another worry here, my concern is the uncertainty on the 90% repayment which MIGHT be made by them to us within the next 2 years.
my question here is, "how, when, what method/ways, are they going to pay us back?"

this is clearly not stated in the circular, save for just an undertaking by Bee Garden, I personally have not much of knowledge in this company, maybe I should start picking up some of their audited financial statements for the past few years from bursa.

Yes, I understand that I am being steered into accepting their proposal but u have to understand, I am just a small fish in a large pond.
They are the pond and they proposed (control) everything, what am I suppose to do? fight with the big guys?
I even received emails from my agents telling me to vote AGAINST and he is telling all his customers as well.

I don't have any answers to ur question on the how, when, what, I guess that will be answered during 8th Feb but what I know is that both FOR and AGAINST will both result in disadvantage to us as an investor. The only difference between FOR and AGAINST is FOR (2 years time frame according to the proposal), a glimpse of hope. U might get ur 90% money back, u walk away forgetting about this and look for a new investment. Let say the AGAINST win the vote, what is the next course of action?? Trustee steps in, PGCB replaced by a new management, don't care anymore, Bee Garden no longer have to bear anything anymore, no more responsibilities from their side. Will the new management be able to run the business as normal? Are they going to revise a new agreement to all the growers? How can u be sure that the new management won't let this kind of crap to happen again? If they can't manage it, they wind up, I get nothing at all...and I have to go through this more than the 2 years time frame just to know in the end it's a dead end.

It is unfortunate that this happens now after enjoying the dividend for the past 5 years but for me after looking at the big picture, short term pain is better than long term pain.
I know many ppl won't accept my comment but anyway, this is my opinion only. no hard feelings.

Yes, i agree with you.
Dear friends, at first i too was very frustrated. Now having given much thought to this whole thing over the last few days...let us look objectively without letting our emotions affect us. This company is unlike other scheme where they simply fold up and run away or abscond. Instead they are giving us notice so that we can make a decision. Also, few points to consider:-
(i) this company is following the rules as in the trust deed and want our approval;
(ii) in business, there is always risks and things can go wrong unexpectedly whether rightly or wrongly. we cannot always want the good things all the time from the company without also at times accepting reality. I am saying this because some of our friends who invested from the start in 2007 already receive 48% return. but now if company facing problem we must try to undertsand and not kill the company;
(iii) More importantly for us, this company is not running away but appears to be responsible in wanting to return our investment.
(iv) important for us to attend meeting and find out problem before voting in favor or not.
I agree with some of our friends who want to vote in favor because:-
(i) if the plantation advisor is correct, we will have to wait long time to see any profit;
(ii) the independant advisor knows the cash flow of the company not enough to go on paying so high yield to us that is why he is also advising us to accept company's proposal.
I just hope and wish the company will pay our money back and unless we give the company a chance to do that, how else are we going to get back our money?

Frustrated, Exactly...and that cause me to can't think in the first place. What I told my friends is exactly what u said earlier.
They realize the issue and they are acting responsibly by giving notice of 21 days upfront before the GM.
If this is another get rich quick scheme, I think by now, the ppl are already in Hawaii enjoying. Why further called for the GM to take place.

Your comment would be valid if the Trustee has the power to takeover the management of the plantation. Please refer to the Prospectus for all relevant legal rights and liabilities. The Trustee Deed is not given to us nor available online. A copy is kept at PGCB office and a summary of its terms are in the Prospectus. We should demand that its full version be made available online on CHGS website. This is to avoid confusion as can be seen here.

CHGS is a partnership scheme where PGCB offers some plots at a fee to us Growers in return they covenanted to pay us the annual yield based on CPO price and a share of the FFB harvest. It is NOT a share in PGCB the management company nor title to the leasehold land nor any right to any property of PGCB .
CHGS is strictly a financing scheme for them to use our RM200+ millions to incubate a new plantation. The Trustee power is limited to how and when our money are being released to PGCB on fixed scheduled dates which is not even based on progress milestones.

The Trustee cannot takeover the management company. We cannot even enter the plantation if not given permissions by PGCB.

There are only two choices available - revision of terms or termination of CHGS agreement.
The certificate issued to us is not share in PGCB. It is just a profit share in this Gua Musang plantation performance up to year 2030 and how the CPO prices moved which directly impacted the revenue of the FFB produced. It is the recent high CPO and slower return rates from GM plantation that burns their pockets.

Voting FOR is going along with them, ie no 12% payment this Valentine Day since the scheme is now ended, and they return our money in two payments.
Voting AGAINST is telling them their payment terms are not acceptable and there is room for revision of CHGS terms or termination payment terms.

It would have been better if the GM is postponed to another date due to CNY holidays and most Growers unable to attend.
There are provisions printed in the Prospectus about Meeting of Growers on page 57 onwards.
The chairman can adjourn the meeting to another date by a show of hands of those present in persons.
The Chairman can be appointed by Growers present at the meeting, or a nominee of the trustee or a representative approved by ROC. PGCB representative can even be the Chairman.
Growers can demand a poll on the election of the Chairman or adjournment of the meeting.

Hence, suggest we demand a poll to adjourn this meeting to another more convenient date and time. A poll is one vote for one Grower Plot in person or by proxy who must also be a Grower.

Meanwhile, the fact remained that PGCB may not be able to pay on this Valentine Day the 12% yield of 2012.
Adjournment only delay this reality, but may give more time for some to decide whether to accept termination at their terms, or revised either the refund terms, or continue CHGS with new terms.

to postpone the meeting, what action shall we take? write letter to them? pls forgive me that i am not high educate person. And bear in mind that, we may be the very low % of the minority grower that are access to the LYN forum. There are high % of uncle auntie that are not aware of our discussion. There may get affected by the proposal and vote yes.

Let us not be stupid. The question is not whether this company can. Untung or not. The. Question is can we get our hard earned principal back? Get out now. I consider ourselves lucky if we get our principal back.

Agreed.

YOUR MATHS IS INACCURATE.

WE DONT GAIN 24% ROI... WE ACTUALLY LOSE 36% ROI!!!

HOW?

LIKE THIS > (1) IF DONT GET DIVIDENDS THIS YEAR, THATS 12% GONE.

(2) NEXT, IF WE VOLUNTARILY TERMINATE & ACCEPT 2 YEAR PAYMENT... THATS ANOTHER 12% X 2, WHICH EQUALS TO 24% IF THE SCHEME CONTINUED NORMALLY.

COMBINE BOTH & IT MEANS WE LOSE A WHOOPING 36%, AS WELL AS LOSE ACCESS TO OUR CASH FOR 2 YEARS!!!

AT LEAST IF IT WAS IN BANK, WOULD BE EARNING 2% - 4% INTEREST IN THOSE 2 YEARS...

This post has been edited by FALSEALIAS: Jan 24 2013, 10:26 AM

For most of us, we buy into CHGS because we want to partner a palm oil plantation venture here. If the plantation now is in bad shape and some trees were lost, allow the current team some time to restore it. > AGREED. TAKE A SHORT TERM HIT. ITS STILL A VIABLE VENTURE AS DEMONSTRATED BY GLOBAL TRENDS. I'M IN IT FOR THE LONG RUN. CHGS IS USING CUT & BAIL TACTIC & PROB WANTED TO MAKE A SHORT TERM PROFIT FROM THE START.


I feel the Board of PGCB made this VT Proposal because they do not the money now to pay 12% without losing a small piece of their shirt. And if the plantation is as bad as they claimed, it has no means to pay us 10% to 12% yield on every Valentine Day up to year 2030. > THEY'RE BASTARDS FOR DOIN IT - BUT YEAH, I WOULD RATHER ACCEPT A LOWER ROI & THIS SCHEME GO THRU FOR THE LONG TERM.

Thank you for the comments False Alias. This company does not have the money to pay us the dividends. They said they can't and therefore won't. It looks like their parent company won't either. The 12% interest rate is unrealistic if we base it on their earnings form this estate. The only way we can fight for it is if we sue them. This itself is complicated with so many shareholders.Even if we win they can just declare bankruptcy and we get nothing. Forget about ROI. Cut our losses and get out of this rotten marriage. Many people don't understand. All we have is a certificate that we own a share of the profits. WE DON"T OWN ANY land. This certificate is now near to being worthless because no one will buy our shares except this company. They are willing to do the less evil thing which is to buy it back. Take it. Do you want to be bounded to these jokers the next 20 years. ROI or not the mental and psychological stress is not worth it. I forsee if we continue this partnership, we will forever be arguing about the dividends they give us each year. Take out our principal. Cut our losses from potential ROI lost and invest it elsewhere like under our mattress.

YOUR COMMENTS & OPINIONS ARE FULLY LAUDED.

EVERYONE WILL APPRECIATE AN OPINION WHEN ITS CLEARLY STATED AS AN OPINION & NOT AS A FACT.

G'LUCK TO YOU HOWEVER THIS TURNS OUT.