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 Country Heights Grower Scheme (CHGS), anyone heard before?

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hyh78
post Jan 22 2013, 03:38 PM

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I haven't received the letter yet but based on my friend's explanation, it sounded like the management proposal is 1 sided.
Also, I call the head office this morning and I got to know there is a proxy vote form included.
For those of you who aren't able to attend the meeting, you are required to send in ur proxy vote.
It will serve as a "voice" during the meeting.

2 items which I haven't got an answer is:

1. this announcement is very recent, will there still be any dividend be payout for the year (2012 feb - 2013 feb) period, because obviously in average the CPO is above rm2100 (12%).
if i'm not mistakken, the new proposal will only take place on march which means investor's should have the rights to receive their dividends by the end of feb.

2. based on my understanding, to vote "FOR" or "AGAINST", both also we will screw up.
if we accept, 10% will be refunded within 30 days while the other 90% will be distributed in 2 years (still can get it back or not also dunno).
if we don't accept, where do we go from here? will the land be sold and $$$ be returned to the investors in 1 shot?

what is the other alternative? i would propose having the dividend cut from 12% to 8-9% during this difficult time.
that way, CH won't look that bad or else they will really screw up their reputation. but of course, after another few years, if this happen again, then headache again.

hyh78
post Jan 22 2013, 05:19 PM

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found the documents of termination....for those who have not received the official letter yet:

http://www.chgs.com.my/download/CIRCULAR%20-%20CHGS.pdf
hyh78
post Jan 22 2013, 07:11 PM

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1 quick question, if we do not agree with the proposal, what will happen?
will the trustee assign a new management to take care of the business that is currently running?
hyh78
post Jan 22 2013, 08:27 PM

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David, after reading over n over again, I say we accept it. But 1 question still remain unanswered. 2012 dividend what happen? I need that $ to survive u know...now need to eat sand everyday...sad.gif nevertheless at least they informed us about this. If other scheme, I think the big boss already long gone...

I agree with chwong...2years seems like too long. 50% first, another 50 within 1 year sounds reasonable

This post has been edited by hyh78: Jan 22 2013, 08:29 PM
hyh78
post Jan 22 2013, 09:49 PM

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QUOTE(netcrawler @ Jan 22 2013, 09:16 PM)
We should gather forces and report this to DAP since the scheme was endorsed by MCA's Woman chief and Tan Sri is BN's big cro*y. Also we should set 3 conditions for the CHGS.

1. They should pay out dividend 12% for last year without setting any condition whatsoever.

2. Refund 50% in 1 month and another 90% month in 6 months.

3. Tan Sri and his management to come out in public to explain and apologize to Growers for failing to live up grower's expectation
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2. i think u mean 50% in 1 month and another 50% in 60 months....you 50% + 90% = 140% liau....they might as well announce wind up....LOL!
like the other poster said, getting back the full refund without the dividend, i'm ok with that...the 12% from last year is an icing on the cake....let's just hope for the best.
I'm voting "FOR" the proposal...in the meantime, loop in DAP lawyer and see what they think about this case...
I think they will be very interested to take a swap at huang nen nen....biggrin.gif
hyh78
post Jan 22 2013, 10:58 PM

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QUOTE(Ck1976 @ Jan 22 2013, 10:43 PM)
Ya agreed ...2 year too long and high risk...
come back and think why 2 yaers.

2 years sufficient for them to access ,what is the risk by then ....
if by that time CHGS is pork a meat sure will fully take up the offer and
by right will fully refund us.
But if is a pork Bone what do you all think at that time ???

Maybe by that time the 2 years earning should be able to pay half of the growers money.

Good some highlight that we should try to set the condition on how the payment should be.
lets continue the discussion...
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stupid question: can't the mother company "country heights" do something about this?? they are a public listed company right? should be plenty of cash....
hyh78
post Jan 23 2013, 10:10 AM

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I can't make it to the meeting as I am staying all the way in Penang.
For those of you who can make it to the meeting, pls help to voice the following item if you have the chance:

1. investor reserved the rights to received the 2012 dividend. you can't ignore the facts that the CPO price was doing well through 2012 period and the announcement of termination is just
announce recently (last week) when we have another month to go to complete a full year dividend calculation. it is very unfair that they EAT our dividend that way. many of us are
depending on this money, especially for those who are in need of medical attention.

2. 10% during the 1st 30 days and 90% within 2 years. i think this is too long. we are not trying to force them to close shop but i think 10% during the 1st 30 days, 50% within 6 months and
40% within another 6 months. i think this is very fair to both investors and the company.

Both conditions, we are talking facts and not simply extorting the company to death. I believe with these 2 condition, both investor and the company would mutually agree to terminate the scheme without any issues.
hyh78
post Jan 23 2013, 10:14 AM

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QUOTE(truth_seeker_09 @ Jan 23 2013, 09:53 AM)
what i meant is instead of return money...
give us share? in case cannot pay back us 2012 interest and principal amount.

Btw, another question, each of us bought the plot with different price... they will return us with what amount? eg. you buy with 7000.. u get 8000(last selling price?), 7000(Purchased price) or 5000(first launched price)?
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that is a very good suggestion. give us country heights shares in return if they can't pay us in cash full amount.

This post has been edited by hyh78: Jan 23 2013, 10:16 AM
hyh78
post Jan 23 2013, 10:41 AM

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QUOTE(limwc78 @ Jan 23 2013, 10:39 AM)
I just create a CHGS group page in facebook. IS better to invite your friend or relative who invest on CHGS to join the group. so we can update the latest news immediately. It also help to gather more people.

http://www.facebook.com/ChgsGrouphttp://www.facebook.com/ChgsGroup
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wow...u even created a new logo for it....impressive....LOL!
hyh78
post Jan 23 2013, 01:21 PM

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QUOTE(stonkong @ Jan 23 2013, 01:18 PM)
mkhor, your download link is break, it say limit exceed....
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i posted a new link, get it here.
The link previously need username/password (very troublesome)

http://www.chgs.com.my/download/CIRCULAR%20-%20CHGS.pdf
hyh78
post Jan 23 2013, 01:45 PM

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QUOTE(stonkong @ Jan 23 2013, 01:34 PM)
The question is good, why not attend the meeting and bang them.
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come to think of it, it is unfair for previous year buyers...
they invest in this thinking that it would be a good return of 12% this year.
instead, 1st year invest in this, already gone case....
also, if previous year buyer bought at a higher price, how are they going to offset the loss?

e.g. 1st owner bought at 6k.
1st owner tries to sell the plot at 7k (with a 1k profit).
2nd owner sees an opportunity and buy the plot at 7k (expecting a 12% return this year, roughly about rm720 (based on 6k plot)).
end up, this year come out the termination proposal. 2nd owner gets nothing in return and loss 1k instead.
hyh78
post Jan 23 2013, 02:13 PM

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QUOTE(KKK45 @ Jan 23 2013, 02:02 PM)
ya..if vote For, will they listen to us and change their terms n conditions on the pay back period?

if vote Against? anybody there to help..
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if vote FOR = meaning we will follow their proposal and I don't think we can change the terms and condition. end up they pay us back 10% and 90% (in 2 years time frame).
no need to talk about 2012 dividend anymore as it was not even mention inside the circular.

If vote AGAINST = meaning we don't agree with the clause that they propose, we want it to change so that it sound fair to us as INVESTORS.
meaning a lot time will be wasted (trustee side, court, etc)...

vote FOR = 2 years time frame
vote AGAINST = 2 years or more (nobody can be sure of this time frame)
in the end, I still need either the 2012 dividends or the 10%. I'm really depending on that for medical purposes.... cry.gif
hyh78
post Jan 23 2013, 03:13 PM

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QUOTE(FALSEALIAS @ Jan 23 2013, 02:52 PM)
DONT TALK NONSENSE OK.

U WORK IN CHGS IS IT? OR JUST LIKE TO TALK BS & SPREAD PANIC FOR FUN?

UR BS BOUT 'vote AGAINST = 2 years or more (nobody can be sure of this time frame)' IS UTTER NONSENSE!

VOTING AGAINST, IF ANYTHING, WOULD ENSURE SPEEDIER REMUNERATION AS BUYER FINDS THE SETTLEMENT TERM PERIOD DISAGREEABLE & WANTS SPEEDIER REMUNERATION. ITS EVEN STATED 30 DAYS OR SPECIFIED PERIOD IN THE CHGS CONRACT!!!

READ MY PREV POST BEFORE TALKING SUCH NONSENSE!
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I'm not talking BS. I'm talking about worst case scenario only....and who the F are u to judge my comments.
Don't pretend that you know ANYTHING and EVERYTHING....
If you don't like my comments, just leave it. I'm not trying to stir FIRE here....I am in the same boat as anyone else here...GOT IT??
hyh78
post Jan 23 2013, 05:55 PM

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QUOTE(sam sam @ Jan 23 2013, 03:49 PM)
in the event they cant sell the land this represents worst case scenario.
the unaudited assets divided by the amount refunded
they can only refund in full if they sell the land succesfully at 129 million or higher
again this is the worst case scenario.
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at least someone is talking sense....read the details figures inside the circular
hyh78
post Jan 23 2013, 05:57 PM

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QUOTE(stonkong @ Jan 23 2013, 04:19 PM)
Deeply understand your feeling. I am complaint to the MCA website every 5 minute. Hope you can do so.
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already did that this morning....1st stop, huang nen nen website....already logged her a few msg for endorsing such scheme and end up like this.
next stop, MCA website...!
hyh78
post Jan 23 2013, 06:23 PM

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QUOTE(FALSEALIAS @ Jan 23 2013, 03:40 PM)
WZUP mkhor7

All buyers are very angry and disappointed with this Proposal by PGCB.  Until the meeting day, many of us are still confused and grieving over our imminent losses. > EXACTLY. SO THERE'S NEED TO CREATE UNNECESSARY PANIC. IF PPL ARE STATING OPINIONS, CLEARLY SAY ITS OPINION. DUN ACT LIKE ITS FACT.

But please, fellow forum members here do not need harsh words. > OH, I NEVER INSTIGATE SALTY LANGUAGE. BUT AM MORE THAN HAPPY TO RETALIATE WID EM.

CHGS by their action is throwing the contract covenants into the bin because they claim no foreseeable profitability from the CHGS plantation, and they do not want to "subsidy" from their other plantation and business.  Money talks louder than their dignity. > BOTTOMLINE, SCHEME SHUD BE TRANSFERRED BY TRUSTEE TO A VIABLE PARTY WHO CAN BRING IT UP AGAIN. FAILING THAT, FULL CAPITAL REMUNERATION & 12% ROI WITHIN A MAX 1 YEAR PERIOD IS A MUST. WORSE CASE SCENARIO > WE STILL OWN THE LAND.

Our best strategy now could be vote Against their Proposal, then use the meeting to find alternative solutions.  Be prepared for more meetings after CNY with the Trustee and PGCB. > AGREED! NO WAY IT WILL BE RESOLVED IN 1 MEET.

One sure thing by voting Against is that CHGS must pay us 2012 yield of 12% due on Valentine Day Feb-14. > EXACTLY. NOW, WHY CANT THE REST GRASP THIS SIMPLE CONCEPT...?
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This one I fully agreed. There's no way they forfeit our 2012 dividend whatsoever....
I went back and forth looking at the Grower's Management Agreement. This is our rights....!

Page 2, no.2
The management company intends to commence or, has commenced an oil palm grower's scheme (blar blar) whereby the management company agrees to OFFER the growers plots in respect of which the grower pays the grower's fee and, in consideration of which the grower OBTAINS a profit a prendre interest and, is ENTITLED TO RECEIVE the NETT YIELD ANNUALLY DURING the TERM and commencing from the commencement date herein defined.

Page 7, no.3 Grower's rights in respect of the grower's plot
in consideration of full payment by the growers to the management company of the grower's fees, the GROWER shall obtain an interest in the nature of a profit a prendre right in the Grower's Plot in respect of which the management company shall pay to the Grower the Nett Yield based on the computation specified in the Fourth Schedule hereto <-- (the chart)
hyh78
post Jan 23 2013, 06:27 PM

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QUOTE(mkhor7 @ Jan 23 2013, 06:08 PM)
The RM129million is definitely conservative as it is a valuation dated Oct-2010.  Latest expert report on the estate was dated Mar-2012 in the Prospectus that you can download from CHGS website.  Yes it seems they can easily refund us in full within 2 years with the sales proceed of the land.  But is getting a refund within the first 8 years the original purpose of us investing in this CHGS?
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Hell No...I'm going all the way for the 23rd year!
hyh78
post Jan 23 2013, 11:17 PM

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I just talk to my mom who works in a lawyer office...and yes, she is also an investor of CHGS.
After looking at the big picture and taking much consideration, I have change my mind to vote "FOR".
In simple terms, 10% for the 1st 30 days. another 90% will be distributed within to years.
If PGCB does not have enough cash to pay back to the investor, Bee Garden will act as an guarantor to step in and settle the amount.
Based on coming 2 years of calculation, Bee Garden is capable of paying back the full amount.

On the other hand, voting AGAINST will result in trustee stepping in to resolved this.
What I am worried is that PGCB will no longer take charge, trustee will look for a new management or something.
And this kind of thing will go for years while the funds being depleted year after year due to professional fees, this fees, that fees.
In the end if it doesn't work out, PGCB will go for last resort of winding up the company, so it makes no difference to their proposal now except longer years.
At that time, wherever asset that they have will be distributed back to the investors.
It might be lower than the 90% that was proposed in the circular.

See if I have the time I will post it up in an image format for better understanding.
A picture is more than a thousand words.
So end of the day, I'm voting FOR and this is just my opinion.
hyh78
post Jan 24 2013, 12:37 AM

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QUOTE(tehoice @ Jan 23 2013, 11:32 PM)
you have a point here mate. but, you are "literally" being steered into accepting the proposals, which I think it does not serve the rights of a minority.

this is just another classic case of minority always being out-played by the big guns.

speaking of which, would really appreciate if you can post the picture of yours for our reference.

I have another worry here, my concern is the uncertainty on the 90% repayment which MIGHT be made by them to us within the next 2 years.
my question here is, "how, when, what method/ways, are they going to pay us back?"

this is clearly not stated in the circular, save for just an undertaking by Bee Garden, I personally have not much of knowledge in this company, maybe I should start picking up some of their audited financial statements for the past few years from bursa.
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Yes, I understand that I am being steered into accepting their proposal but u have to understand, I am just a small fish in a large pond.
They are the pond and they proposed (control) everything, what am I suppose to do? fight with the big guys?
I even received emails from my agents telling me to vote AGAINST and he is telling all his customers as well.

I don't have any answers to ur question on the how, when, what, I guess that will be answered during 8th Feb but what I know is that both FOR and AGAINST will both result in disadvantage to us as an investor. The only difference between FOR and AGAINST is FOR (2 years time frame according to the proposal), a glimpse of hope. U might get ur 90% money back, u walk away forgetting about this and look for a new investment. Let say the AGAINST win the vote, what is the next course of action?? Trustee steps in, PGCB replaced by a new management, don't care anymore, Bee Garden no longer have to bear anything anymore, no more responsibilities from their side. Will the new management be able to run the business as normal? Are they going to revise a new agreement to all the growers? How can u be sure that the new management won't let this kind of crap to happen again? If they can't manage it, they wind up, I get nothing at all...and I have to go through this more than the 2 years time frame just to know in the end it's a dead end.

It is unfortunate that this happens now after enjoying the dividend for the past 5 years but for me after looking at the big picture, short term pain is better than long term pain.
I know many ppl won't accept my comment but anyway, this is my opinion only. no hard feelings.
hyh78
post Jan 24 2013, 01:03 AM

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QUOTE(smurfet @ Jan 24 2013, 12:54 AM)
Yes, i agree with you.
Dear friends, at first i too was very frustrated. Now having given much thought to this whole thing over the last few days...let us look objectively without letting our emotions affect us. This company is unlike other scheme where they simply fold up and run away or abscond. Instead they are giving us notice so that we can make a decision. Also, few points to consider:-
(i) this company is following the rules as in the trust deed and want our approval;
(ii) in business, there is always risks and things can go wrong unexpectedly whether rightly or wrongly. we cannot always want the good things all the time from the company without also at times accepting reality. I am saying this because some of our friends who invested from the start in 2007 already receive 48% return. but now if company facing problem we must try to undertsand and not kill the company;
(iii) More importantly for us, this company is not running away but appears to be responsible in wanting to return our investment.
(iv) important for us to attend meeting and find out problem before voting in favor or not.
I agree with some of our friends who want to vote in favor because:-
(i) if the plantation advisor is correct, we will have to wait long time to see any profit;
(ii) the independant advisor knows the cash flow of the company not enough to go on paying so high yield to us that is why he is also advising us to accept company's proposal.
I just hope and wish the company will pay our money back and unless we give the company a chance to do that, how else are we going to get back our money?
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Frustrated, Exactly...and that cause me to can't think in the first place. What I told my friends is exactly what u said earlier.
They realize the issue and they are acting responsibly by giving notice of 21 days upfront before the GM.
If this is another get rich quick scheme, I think by now, the ppl are already in Hawaii enjoying. Why further called for the GM to take place.

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