You are right, you need a soldering iron to heat up the solder joint.

What soldering kit do you use? Any recommendations? Or are they all the same. TQQ

For soldering, most any soldering iron you can find at supermarkets are good enough.

For desoldering, I'd recommend getting something much more reliable and powerful. Something with temperature control. This is what I use:
https://shopee.com.my/KSGER-T12-Soldering-S...605.20490523193

Don't use the K tip that comes with that particular set, get a D tip. I use a D16 (1.6mm) but sifu horns says that that's too small. So probably go for the D32 tip.

https://shopee.com.my/KSGER-T12-D08-D12-D16...605.17275323993

Edit: Actually he uses 2.4, but also 3.2

This post has been edited by niakulah: Jul 14 2023, 04:29 PM

basically, a soldering iron that supports temperature control, and is capable to maintain good heat transfer during operations are good enough. coupled with decent 63/37 solder wires, it's easier enough for beginners to do soldering and desoldering quite painlessly. these days, soldering stations with t12 tips (like the one mentioned by niakulah above) are common and affordable. hence, it's better to get them instead.

as for the tip types, i chose chisel tips of 2.4d and 3.2d because i took an additional consideration that clones might not be as efficient in heat transfer, compared to genuine parts from well-known manufacturers. apparently i was wrong about 1.6d, since niakulah has no issue using it lol (also, experienced users can use any tip type, as long as heat conductivity is efficient for the jobs)

my current soldering station is also an affordable option. it supports temperature control, auto sleep, and uses t12 tips. with it i can do switch soldering at 300c with 63/37 solder wires. (i use 310c for desoldering) previously i have posted the link to the station at taobao, and also all 63/37 solder wire brands and models that i have tested to work fine, e.g., kester, mechanic, white monkey, you bang, etc.

previously I was comtemplating to get the proskit desoldering station at around RM400+. It should be easier to do the job, but ended up with the pump. lol

yes i believe so. however, doing it manually is also not hard.




This post has been edited by horns: Jul 17 2023, 06:51 PM

imo, soldering/desoldering tools that are good for manual work flows are sufficient for hobbyist usage. it doesn't matter if the technologies used are old or new. both will work fine. in my case, none of my builds actually failed and required repairs/massive overhauls. my desoldering jobs are mainly to 'fix'/tune inconsistent key switches only. (a.k.a., 'tangan gatal')

of course, if you can afford professional or industrial grade tools, you can always go ahead. years ago, clones were problematic, mainly due to inconsistent behaviors and qualities that impact performance of such tools. the results were inconsistent as well because of that. back then, the common soldering irons were based on t18 tips, and the ones with t12 tips were expensive; some of these clones had bad heat conductivity, and couldn't maintain consistent heat transfer during operations; clones of desoldering pumps were also like sucking air only, not solder. to prevent bad things from happening to beginners, again, decent, safer, but relatively expensive choices were promoted.

today, there are clones with parts that are relatively decent and affordable. there might still be gaps compared to professional/industrial grade offerings, but they are mostly good enough for hobbyists.

also, as long as you stick to the basic rules of soldering/desoldering, and maintain them accordingly, even the tips can survive for a long time. my tips are still performing well. (they are still the stock tips. i don't need to replace them yet)

edit: back in the older days, it was a fun, but risky and hellish experience haha. there were plenty of bitter sweet memories, but then, many still survive.


This post has been edited by horns: Jul 17 2023, 07:48 PM

I'm in complete agreement with this. I have just completed the replacement of the RK browns on my RK61 with my balance Akko Jelly purples. Those switches needed to be desoldered and I totally find the process of desoldering not as difficult as anticipated using the silicone tip desoldering pump. Using just a simple standard stock tip is already quite usable and in a hobby setting, it is more that sufficient. It is not like I'm soldering and desoldering daily, unless I'm looking at many many boards, then getting a vaccum type desoldering tool does speed up the process.

As a side note, I'm currently trying to daily drive that RK61. Even with the standard key combo on the RK61, I'm pleasantly surprised that I'm liking it more and more. those function row accessibility using the FN key combo is unexpectedly easy for me. It is more of the Pg Up, Pg down, end, home key that needs some additional customization that the RK61 does not allow.

Come to think of it, using or getting 60% or 65% boards seems to be cheaper in comparison to a TKL. Of course, a smaller board using lesser material will cost lesser, but I read from your previous post there are good quality 60% generic" boards that are very affordable and when I browse for a TKL, it does not seem to have a "generic" board per se, or am I looking wrongly.

Probably I would check and join some "lower" cost 60% boards GB and check them out. Now going to get a metal board to try it out.

A note on tuning stabs, I tried out popular choices like super lube, permatex, 205G0. For the new TX AP, using a thin coat of 205G0 seems to be the suitable for it as using super lube does make it slightly more sluggish. As for other not so tight fit stabs, I find using super lube is easier and the feel is just nice, while using the permatex (which is significantly more viscous) easily makes the stabs sluggish. My method of lubing the wires and wire hole on the stem, I just squeeze the super lube into the stem hole until it is full and just a spread of lube on the wire.

yes about tools .. and you're right again about stock prebuilts, even for the entry-level options. in general, they are unoptimized, so the outcomes are relatively significant after tuned. unfortunately, only those who have first-hand experience get them haha

maybe. 60/65 are probably cheaper, like what you described, but that's not really the point. most people actually like tkl for various reasons.

yes, you misunderstood my posts. for 60%, my route is custom builds, based on generic parts. i get stuff blindly from various sellers, then try to make them work nicely. my main aim is to make sure i can type on each key daily, but i wanna have dedicated arrow keys. (plus many other requirements, e.g., most generic 60% pcbs and plates were for multi-layout supports, and noisy metal cases. i didn't want these, but they were chances for me to learn how to make them work). tbh, it's a hard route for me few years ago, because good and compatible parts were rare, and they were all tray-mount based. only in recent years i had the chance to get single-layout pcb and plates (somehow the 64-key layout is more popular than i thought. it's now one of the community layouts in qmk), and collect plate-mounting options that are outside tray-mount, e.g., top-mount and gasket-mount.

there are 60% gbs. i also wish for kits that fit my requirements, but nothing that i wanted came out.

while it's basically a personal choice, but you're correct about impacts of different viscosities of lubes on stabilizers while they are fresh. you should also observe for a longer time for changes.

this is actually a good observation that very few people mention about. (well, it's like none) it's also the real reason why i think behaviors of 'echo chambers' without own experiments to find out the truths first are bad, and should not be encouraged.

by the way, do not feel insulted if someone simply tag you as 'echo chambers', if you are delivering the right messages that are correct and helpful to others. just keep quiet and move on. you have done your part.

Thanks very much for the clarification. This makes sense now. lol, my bad.
I'm currently liking the size and usability of the 60%, did not hinder me on my daily workflow.

Looks like narrowing towards a personal preference board does take effort and especially money.. lolx.
Getting a few boards in test and build really put a dent in the wallet.. lolx. But this is how it goes.

Do you have a recommendation on a board to start of with for 60%?

I will keep in mind the stabs with the super lube and see how it holds up over time.

it is the internet which have its good and bad. For better or worst, communities exist as like-minded people group together to discuss same interest and topics. In this situation, echo chamber would form naturally, i guess.

But try not to let it get to you as the whole purpose of a hobby is to share your ideas and thoughts. Without generous sharing from members, it would not be a hobby to have fun in.

My 2 cents.

no problem hehe

yes, 60% is fun. when you keep on optimizing own typing habits, you can strip all unnecessary keys, and make sure you can type on all keys everyday. i don't wanna go further to 40, because 60% is comfortable for me, and generic parts are readily available. on the other hand, starting from 65%, i start to have keys that i seldom use. i have gone through a lot of layouts that are available for 60%. so far, the most comfortable for me are 63- and 64-key. i don't wanna do split space bar, because i have many good 6.25u space bar key caps lol

right, narrowing down to actual own preferences needs time, efforts and yeah money hehe (first-hand experience is very important in this case) however, you can also stick to few good boards and still have fun. it's really up to individual plans.

also, there are things to keep in mind, e.g., the smaller the form factor, the more important the firmware on pcb is. these days, qmk is relatively stable.

i mainly focus on 64-key soldered 60% tray-mount. for generic parts, my current pick is dxws at taobao (cases: zt60, xr60; plates: aluminum, pc, brass, pom, plate-mount stabilizer support; various foams). for pcbs, dz60v2 (flex-cut) (not available when i checked just now), yd60mq, and cx60 (64-key single layout only)

echo chambers are fine if correct messages are delivered. it's a good thing to do, in order to lead beginners to the right paths, and to make the community a better place.

you're right, it's the internet, consisting of individuals from all walks of life. weird persons that hope for the worst for others always exist.

while i keep reminding myself not to do soldering at late night, i still do it frequently. just fixed the shift key for its bad responsiveness. the key switch is fine. the cause was due to a bad soldering job. (lesser solder was fed to one of the pins)

--

when i scouted for new stuff just now, i came across the new magnetic hall sensor linear key switch from gateron. i believe it's for wooting's 60he.

it's a good technology, but manufacturers do not pick this up yet. i hope it will not end up like optical key switches.

--

this list of generic 60% cases was found at wooting. the list is about case compatibility for 60he, and is not complete, but it's a good starting point for tray-mount case selection.

This post has been edited by horns: Jul 19 2023, 10:00 PM

just when a friend and i chatted about hall effect key switches, geon announced his plan of a new tkl kit that supports ec (topre), mx, and lekker (hall effect/he) key switches.

geon's continuous efforts to design and make good-quality kits that are as complete as possible are good to the community in general. his glare65 has a collection of plates (standard, half, and island) with seven plate materials to choose from, beside solderable and hotswap pcbs, with fly daughter board, and other stuff.

.. and now geon's aiming to make one kit that supports not only mx key switches, but ec, and he. i'm happy now

But Geon is pricing his boards around at the higher end of the premium pricing. Like his glare65 i checked it out, and it will cost like almost USD600 including shipping and tax. And more if you get more plates and PCBs..

Like his Frog mini, I liked the design but it is really costly and you cannot buy more boards with the same budget. lol

but Geon recently sells in stock, which is great

Maybe I will snag that F1-8x V2 end of the month. lol

in terms of price, yes it's on the higher end. however i think the price is fair. (if you compared geon to other vendors of high end kits, that is) also, you will never get that many options from other vendors. making a kit as complete as possible doesn't mean we must get everything. it just means there are more options for us to pick. collectors might swallow everything, but that's another story. i believe optional parts will be available on relatively regular basis, especially for that new tkl.

just spend wisely. like many stuff, there will always be the 'next best thing'. there is no need to fall into the famous rabbit hole haha

I came across something like the QK100 which does provide quite a lot of plate PCB, colors options for it, though it is not the higher end boards such as Geon.

Though to be fair, Geon does mostly in stock sales which is not the same as group buys.

Oh ya, the rabbit hole, all hobbies do fall into in more or less.... lol.

yes, they are from different classes. that's exactly why i said geon's direction is good, because he offers the same and more (e.g., value-added services, like in-stock sales, expanding mx-only options to ec and he switches) at highend range.

i never look down on kits from all classes. they are options for different target audience, and there are always hidden gems in each class. most importantly, everyone gets to own them, based on individual preferences and budget.

honestly, there are good options in entry- and mid-tier range, and progressive shifts of certain features that are only found in highend kits to mid-tier and entry-level are also real. i believe there will be new options from time to time, at cheaper price tags.

right, every hobby has rabbit holes. my advice is always, 'just spend wisely.'

--

desoldering kailh-style key switch sockets with a hot-air gun is also simple. (very simple indeed) just now i tried 350c, 50% air flow. now i just need to practice, then find out better temperatures and air flows for this during the process.

the tools you need is a hot-air station with temperature and air flow control, a tweezer, and flux. i use tooth pick to apply flux.

1. turn on the hot-air gun (350c, 50% air flow);
2. apply flux on the two sides of switch socket;
3. aim the hot-air gun tip on both sides, to and fro, repeatedly, until the flux melt;
4. use tweezers to clamp the plastic body of switch socket, and move it gently;
5. after few seconds, the switch socket can be removed effortlessly.

that's all.

i use this kasadi hot-air station, https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=543411986211

edit: step 3. is continuous until step 5 is achieved. the kasadi station comes with nozzles of three sizes. i use the mid-sized nozzle.

This post has been edited by horns: Jul 22 2023, 12:11 PM

PSA. Some GMK sets shipped this year has issues.

https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboard...ps_know_before/

This post has been edited by niakulah: Jul 23 2023, 08:31 AM