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 Ask my anything about tires, I am a tire engineer

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dudester
post Sep 8 2022, 09:29 AM

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QUOTE(mdziaf @ Sep 7 2022, 09:34 PM)
Yea in your case Silverstone has closed down and replaced by Toyo. Maybe the buldge we are talking about are different type of buldge - since you seem to imply that 3 of your tires that came with your car has this issue. To me that doesnt seem to be very likely. Tires going to a car manufacturer would need to pass through the tire manufacturer’s QC and then again through the car manufacturer’s receiving QC department before again another round of QC before the car leaves the car factory. So maybe thats why you arent gettng anywhere with your request.
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So is Silverstone = Toyo?
Didnt like Silverstone before but I like Toyo now!
mdziaf
post Sep 8 2022, 10:29 AM

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QUOTE(dudester @ Sep 8 2022, 09:29 AM)
So is Silverstone = Toyo?
Didnt like Silverstone before but I like Toyo now!
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More info here:
https://www.tyrepress.com/2021/02/toyo-clos...nt-in-malaysia/
mdziaf
post Sep 8 2022, 10:35 AM

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QUOTE(BoomerangCircles @ Sep 7 2022, 09:38 PM)
what is the averange max speed for a new tyre to turn a corner without loosing the floor grip?
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Short answer: it depends

Long answer: your question is like asking how fast can an engine go?

For the case of the engine it depends on how much power the engine can output, the gear ratio of the gearbox, the size of the tire on the car, the aerodynamics of the car body etc.

For the case of a tire it depends on the weight of the car, the turning angle of the corner, the compound used in the tire, the suspension setup, the road condition etc. Change one thing and it will effect the speed you can take the corner.

But if driving on public roads, keep to the speed limit and drive sensibly. If wet then drive cautiously, because you dont want to be at the limit of grip around a corner only to realize you need to avoid an obstacle etc.
minizian
post Sep 9 2022, 01:07 AM

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Speaking of tire and its limit, is there such place as a skid pad in Malaysia where one are able to test the car grip (especially in wet road) in safe environment.

This post has been edited by minizian: Sep 9 2022, 01:11 AM
zeng
post Sep 9 2022, 06:29 AM

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QUOTE(Vsmh @ Sep 7 2022, 08:44 PM)
Eh, i think saga is also using torsion beam so technically there shouldnt be anything to adjust. Not sure if VVT is the same as older models tho.
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Thank you for clarifying a 'newer' saga vvt has rear torsion beam design, which has no factory adjustment for rear alignment angles.

Yes, older generation saga/wira used to have multi link rear suspension system.
zeng
post Sep 9 2022, 06:43 AM

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QUOTE(BoomerangCircles @ Sep 7 2022, 09:38 PM)
what is the averange max speed for a new tyre to turn a corner without loosing the floor grip?
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Having selected a specific tyre model/material in real life, tyre alignment is more significant and appropriate in dealing with your intended purpose imho besides driving skills.
ktek
post Sep 9 2022, 09:14 AM

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QUOTE(BoomerangCircles @ Sep 7 2022, 09:38 PM)
what is the averange max speed for a new tyre to turn a corner without loosing the floor grip?
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nobody gave u answer rite. becos they dont play corner brows.gif
ktek
post Sep 9 2022, 09:22 AM

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blah x3. ok my method is pump correct pressure. find a 90' wide junction.
locking low gear pijak 50kph first go.
adjust tyre pressure to learn grip character while increasing speed 60,70,80,90

i will aim for 70-80 enough. majority brand can achieve until here
unless really weak one pun 50kph pass
ktek
post Sep 9 2022, 09:24 AM

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QUOTE(minizian @ Sep 9 2022, 01:07 AM)
Speaking of tire and its limit, is there such place as a skid pad in Malaysia where one are able to test the car grip (especially in wet road) in safe environment.
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simen floor parking lot. how fast u plan to go
ktek
post Sep 9 2022, 09:30 AM

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QUOTE(zeng @ Sep 9 2022, 06:29 AM)
Thank you for clarifying a 'newer' saga vvt has rear torsion beam design, which has no factory adjustment for rear alignment angles.

Yes, older generation saga/wira used to have multi link rear suspension system.
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saga never get multi link at all since 30 yr ago
ktek
post Sep 9 2022, 09:37 AM

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QUOTE(Vsmh @ Sep 7 2022, 08:44 PM)
Hi TS, thank you for the response, however I think you might have gotten slightly confused here, my question on no.1 is actually not about grip or loss of comfort. More to tramlining and wobbly / squishy feel. Kindly see my original post (below for easier reference)
I have a few questions which I hope you can assist with.

Background: Std Saga VVT using stock Silverstone M3 175/70/13 upgraded to PS3 195/50/15.

Issues: experiencing tramlining, higher body roll (likely due to softer side walls?), car isnt as composed when breaking hard either.
Only plus points seems to be grip and rather low noise, whereas with the Silverstones it was opposite (ie: higher noise, lower grip especially in the wet but the rest were fine). What gives?
Some times i wonder if the tire shop knew of such things (and thus took the opportunity to sell) or they really think its a safety issue.
Id agree on tolerances. Tire shop said no warranty one lah, Perodua said have but need to deal directly with manufacturer. Manufacturer (Silverstone) has kinda shut down (and they were pushing me back to Perodua), later found out they are now made and handled by Toyo tires, they were of the opinion that it was within spec and normal. All these created a perfect storm since i travel long distance and if 3/4 of my tires had a "bulge" as the tire shop called them, i was not willing to risk a single pop on the highway @ high speeds.
Just a bit of backstory, tires were within warranty period, ran for about 20K km. Now i have 4 extra tires because of this episode.
Eh, i think saga is also using torsion beam so technically there shouldnt be anything to adjust. Not sure if VVT is the same as older models tho.
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did u pump air pressure according to 13" specs or 15" specs (pls refer any same gen vehicle come with 15")

i suspect alignment as well becos shop only focus on straight line or they may pick a generic saga (different gen) from computer
Vsmh
post Sep 9 2022, 10:37 AM

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QUOTE(ktek @ Sep 9 2022, 09:37 AM)
did u pump air pressure according to 13" specs or 15" specs (pls refer any same gen vehicle come with 15")

i suspect alignment as well becos shop only focus on straight line or they may pick a generic saga (different gen) from computer
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Hi yes, 220kpa for cold tires, 250kpa for hot/warm, same across the board for 13-15" but their sticker is for the following:
175/60/R13
185/60R14
185/55R15
Mine is 195/50/15, wonder if i need to increase?

I find that some shops dont really know how to do alignment, driving will feel unengaging, steering not stiff enough and they will say ntg to do with alignment, but those that know they can sort it out. So its a bit of a hard time to get a shop that can do it properly....
Do let me know if you have any suggestions.

ktek
post Sep 9 2022, 10:48 AM

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QUOTE(Vsmh @ Sep 9 2022, 10:37 AM)
Hi yes, 220kpa for cold tires, 250kpa for hot/warm,  same across the board for 13-15" but their sticker is for the following:
175/60/R13
185/60R14
185/55R15
Mine is 195/50/15, wonder if i need to increase?

I find that some shops dont really know how to do alignment, driving will feel unengaging, steering not stiff enough and they will say ntg to do with alignment, but those that know they can sort it out. So its a bit of a hard time to get a shop that can do it properly....
Do let me know if you have any suggestions.
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i recommend u go simen parking lot. stop the car without motion. pusing steering to left & right end.
got squeek noise? increase pressure 1 step (5kpa or 1psi).

or another way round, u pump high 300kpa, go parking lot test. slowly reduce until squeek noise appear. read the pressure and save forever.
thats how i find best surface grip for low speed turns
ktek
post Sep 9 2022, 11:06 AM

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if modified spring, absorber, lowered, not same alignment specs liao
need to catch back slowly
Vsmh
post Sep 9 2022, 11:09 AM

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QUOTE(ktek @ Sep 9 2022, 11:06 AM)
if modified spring, absorber, lowered, not same alignment specs liao
need to catch back slowly
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Tak de, using ori proton rims the rest all stock
BoomerangCircles
post Sep 10 2022, 10:21 PM

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QUOTE(ktek @ Sep 9 2022, 09:14 AM)
nobody gave u answer rite. becos they dont play corner brows.gif
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Sad, I ask tyre he answer safety and cars and not related to tyre…..

Normal condition, corner maintain 60-80km/h will pass. If the tyre sound. Then reduce the speed. That’s what I get from testing and testing. Of course testing on when no traffic around.
zeng
post Sep 10 2022, 11:22 PM

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QUOTE(ktek @ Sep 9 2022, 09:30 AM)
saga never get multi link at all since 30 yr ago
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Thanks for the heads up.

You're right. A quick search shows 2008 and up Sagas are rear torsion beam design.

I owned 3 Sagas from 1985 to 1990, IIRC they were all rear multi links but not definite about it.

Any info on rear suspension designs of Sagas from 1991- 2007?

Early Wira's are definitely rear multi link design.

This post has been edited by zeng: Sep 10 2022, 11:23 PM
e-lite
post Sep 10 2022, 11:31 PM

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out of topic a bit but for discussion.

how michelin / bf goodrich manage to sell so expensive tyres?

is it because they use premium grade compound/manufacturing process? is it because they invest back into r&d?

i have used michelins before and know what they have to offer. sometimes even more than twice the price of other top 5 tyre brands.
zeng
post Sep 10 2022, 11:35 PM

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QUOTE
Hi yes, 220kpa for cold tires, 250kpa for hot/warm,  same across the board for 13-15" but their sticker is for the following:
175/60/R13
185/60R14
185/55R15
Mine is 195/50/15, wonder if i need to increase?


At similar air pressure, the load capacity of your R15 likely exceeds that tyre sizes on the sticker.

So, you'll never overload and safe.

QUOTE
I find that some shops dont really know how to do alignment, driving will feel unengaging, steering not stiff enough and they will say ntg to do with alignment, but those that know they can sort it out. So its a bit of a hard time to get a shop that can do it properly....
Do let me know if you have any suggestions.
*
The tyre alignment finishing car owners are getting in the market are very mediocre and cin cai imho, including those whose print out (which is rarely given to customers) have numbers within green zones.

I'm also in search of a 'perfectionist' alignment shop. Somebody here did suggest a xxx Hin along Jalan Klang Lama if you're in klang valley, which I'm yet to try him.
zeng
post Sep 10 2022, 11:41 PM

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-delete-

This post has been edited by zeng: Sep 10 2022, 11:43 PM

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