Ah thanks! What do you think about this brand? Recommended by the electrician...

JOVEx again haha. BTW, I dont believe any build in electronics ELCB.
Only 2 brands I found is using Electro-Magnetic. ELCB.

YET to me is not enough and by the rules regardless whether the unit comes with built in, they must have an exter RCCB, RCB, RCBO 10mA.

And probably 99.99% user ignore

Sorry, never used before. There's something you must realise which unfortunately is this: Contractors don't recommend something based on your best interest. They recommend something because it is easy to purchase, or that is what they have in stock, or it has a large profit margin, etc.

You also cannot trust something simply because it has a SIRIM sticker. You must get something that has a SIRIM sticker that has passed electrical specifications. A company could very well get a SIRIM sticker on the claimed weight of the item.

That being said, if funds are limited, then go for Maxguard, EPS or Himel branded RCBO with these specs : 20 A overcurrent, 10 mA trip. All have SIRIM and are JKR approved*, meaning they have at least been electrically tested by someone independently. If you go for an RCCB instead of RCBO, then get 25 A, 10 mA trip. The 25A is because there will be an additional MCB for the water heater. NOTE: these specs are if your WH is below, say, 4500 W, which it probably is. Please review if the WH happens to be above this wattage.

I can tell you that the store "Combi Electric" online delivers very fast, and price is fair. Now, saying that "Contractors don't recommend something based on your best interest" why should you trust me? I have absolutely no connection to the store just stated, I am not making money off you, and I am only recommending this based on your safety, because I can't get anything else from you!

Disclaimer: * last time I checked

Just to clarify, you are using a storage water heater correct? Not an instant water heater.

If it is a storage water heater, then FYI storage water heaters do not have a built-in circuit breaker like instant water heaters. So they have to rely on the DB box circuit breaker. BUT if your storage water heater is not grounded / no earth connection, no matter how good quality your circuit breaker is, the circuit breaker will not trip when there is a current leakage, and u will be electrocuted.

Hence why SIRIM / Suruhanjaya Tenaga now set a new guideline for storage water heaters to come with Isolation Barriers placed at both the storage water heaters' inlet and outlet water connection. Most SIRIM certified storage water heater brands already complied to this guideline, and some brands even took the extra safety effort to pre-install the isolation barriers on the heater, such as CENTON, which is extra good, considering some inexperienced installers will missed out installing the Isolation Barriers if they are not pre-installed on the heater out-of-the-box.

Isolation Barriers are simple devices that elongate any current flow from the storage water heater to users, so any current flow (if there is) will barely reach the users. So in your case where there is an unfortunate current leakage because of the lack of earthing, if your storage water heater is pre-installed with Isolation Barriers, the Isolation Barriers will protect u from electrocution to a certain extend. But every device has a lifespan as well, so u will probably be protected until the lifespan of the Isolation Barriers ended. So don't just rely on the Isolation Barriers to protect u. Installation and earthing connection has to be correct in the first place.

Basically just a safety tip for u, if your storage water heater do not have Isolation Barriers pre-installed, u are advised to install them.

This is the reason a 10 mA RCCB/RCBO is specified for water heaters, either instant or storage, whether your heater is Grounded/Earthed or not. You become the Ground/Earth point, and the RCCB/RCBO trips before a fatal current electrocutes you.
As for this, you should absolutely also use isolation barriers (basically, a section of non-conductive pipe to break the path of the hot water copper pipe), or use PP-R or PB pipes for hot water.

ElectroBOOM shows the effects of even a small gap of water on electrical conductivity on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dcrY59nGxBg&t=93s

"Contractors don't recommend something based on your best interest." Wise words.

Ok, thanks for the recommendations! Found these, these are the right ones right, as long as you get the 20A, 10ma versions? They all don't seem to have the earth fault indicator though which I read is important. Worth getting one with that in your opinion?
https://shopee.com.my/MAXGUARD-20A-2P10MA-T...9b-d362c89e75bc

https://shopee.com.my/Himel-HDB9PLEN40C-RCB...98-32ff6290e643

https://shopee.com.my/EPS-20A-25A-2P-10mA-6...fe-bfcd8624b2e9

Also, curious, how do you find out a product is JKR approved?

Yes, it's a storage water heater, the type that's installed up in the ceiling. Joven, model JH25.

Thanks for the tip about Isolation Barriers! So yeah, quite freaked about this whole affair. Went up and took a look, definitely no isolation barriers, copper piping all the way... second pic shows it going into concrete and connecting to my steel shower. And these were installed only 4 years ago.

All those C20, C32, etc are MCBs.
Your DB box is using Hager components, better for you to buy Hager RCCBs as they will fit perfectly when you cover the enclosure. The enclosure tolerance is tight, if use other brands may not be able to close back, may need to trim the window on the enclosure cover if want to use cheaper brands. Take note that I am not talking about the outer cover, I'm talking about the cover where the stickers (main switch, danger, etc) are on.
On another note, your DB box should not be having those C32 MCBs unless there are ring circuits in your house (which is very unlikely). Check what those MCBs are for and replace them with more appropriately sized MCBs.
You must also change your main RCCB which is using 300mA sensitivity to 30mA (0.03A). 300mA house burn down also RCD will not trip.

This post has been edited by gobiomani: Jul 21 2022, 10:45 AM

"JOVEx again haha."

Why? You had similar experience with Joven? Actually I had two Joven water heaters spoilt within a week of each other, this one and the other one suddenly trip the whole house when I tried to switch it on. Both were because of the heater element. Both also just reached 4 years old. Makes me wonder what kind of quality the WH are and here I thought Joven was a reputable brand.

Yours is the water heater tank types, not the regular one.

You have current on the tap head - possible causes is you have some wiring work done and neutral and earth wiring got connected wrongly or wiring have issues. Better get a technician to check it ASAP.

Edit : Saw TS found the root cause at post #15. I replied immediately because of the severity of the issue. Glad that you found it.

This post has been edited by AbbyCom: Jul 21 2022, 11:09 AM

Water heater safety guides from the electrical and electronics association of Malaysia

https://www.st.gov.my/en/contents/presentat...-%20Updated.pdf

Sorry to be a bit pedantic, but I have to point out...
ST = Suruhanjaya Tenaga = Energy Commission = can make rules that must be followed
electrical and electronics association of Malaysia = guidelines, no legal standing

Is not whether can or cannot. Its mandatory under the Electricity Regulations 1994 to have 10mA RCD fitted for wet floor appliances.

1. You trust your life insurance to cheapo china brand?
2. Want to do, do properly. ABB or Hager 10mA RCD.

Also like mentioned above, the 3 phase 0.3A = 300mA RCD is useless and against the law, cos of it all your 13A sockets are illegal and unprotected.
You need to change to 30mA (0.03A) RCD. This will cost the good part of RM300-ish for the barang alone.

This post has been edited by ceo684: Jul 22 2022, 12:54 AM

Hey thanks for all the tips! Did not notice that about my RCCB if you hadn't mentioned it! Will get my electrician to look into those C32 MCBs that you mentioned.

Heheh... thanks for the concern.

Sorry lah boss, didn't know better then . Learning by every new post. Didn't notice my RCCB was 300mA also, had thought it was 0.3A until gobiomani mentioned it.

Appreciate the input.

This post has been edited by subaiku: Jul 28 2022, 07:58 AM

looking at how TS's electrician installed the water heater and the errors with the DB box.... I'm wondering how many other houses out there are done the same way by the same guy with the same mistake as well? basically all ticking time bomb.....

This post has been edited by ZeneticX: Jul 27 2022, 02:01 AM

This kind of thing is unfortunately very common in Malaysia. Most so called electricians in Malaysia don't know what they are doing or want to get it done with minimum work for them. The attitude of most Malaysians where they are not willing to pay for good quality and knowledgeable electrician is also a very big contributing factor to such poor quality work.

Nice thread.. I've learned a lot from you guys... tq and stay safe

An overwhelming majority - sad to say.