QUOTE(TOS @ Nov 24 2022, 04:35 PM)
So many lowballers. Next t bill maybe 3.8% SG Savings Bond (SSB) & Treasury Bills (T-bills), Guaranteed by Singapore Government
SG Savings Bond (SSB) & Treasury Bills (T-bills), Guaranteed by Singapore Government
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Nov 24 2022, 04:38 PM
Show posts by this member only | IPv6 | Post
#121
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2,543 posts Joined: Jan 2003 |
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Nov 24 2022, 04:46 PM
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8,667 posts Joined: Aug 2019 From: Penang <-> Singapore |
QUOTE(ikanbilis @ Nov 24 2022, 04:38 PM) Made it to the front page of Bloomberg...Must be too popular...https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/202...h-record-yields (May need to bypass paywall to read) The Edge has a "copy" of the article, without paywall: https://www.theedgemarkets.com/article/sing..._medium=Website » Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... « I notice it's 60 bp behind 3-month, similar to last time... Gone are those good days where the spreads are just 5-20 bp... This post has been edited by TOS: Nov 24 2022, 06:24 PM ikanbilis liked this post
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Nov 25 2022, 11:40 AM
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8,667 posts Joined: Aug 2019 From: Penang <-> Singapore |
Today is the last day to apply for the Dec 22 SSB.
https://www.mas.gov.sg/bonds-and-bills/Sing...e-Savings-Bonds Do so via OCBC and UOB before 12 pm (or 5 pm?, can't be sure, check your respective internet banking settings.) DBS deadline is 9pm tonight. Jan 23 bond rates are available for comparison here: https://www.ilovessb.com/ |
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Nov 26 2022, 01:03 PM
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8,667 posts Joined: Aug 2019 From: Penang <-> Singapore |
From BT 251122:
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... « |
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Nov 28 2022, 04:06 PM
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8,667 posts Joined: Aug 2019 From: Penang <-> Singapore |
SSB Dec 22 allotment result has been published. https://www.mas.gov.sg/bonds-and-bills/auct...date=2022-12-01 QUOTE This Savings Bond was allotted using the Quantity Ceiling format. Applicants who applied for S$14,000 or lower were fully allotted, subject to the individual allotment limits. Applicants who applied for S$14,500 or higher were allotted either S$14,000 or S$14,500. Approximately 39.34% of these applicants were selected at random and allotted the additional S$500. ikanbilis liked this post
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Nov 30 2022, 09:02 AM
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Senior Member
8,667 posts Joined: Aug 2019 From: Penang <-> Singapore |
Yesterday's 4-week and 12-week MAS Bill auction results:
4-week 5.49% is crazy yield figure... The SG institutions all pakat and bully cheng hu Source: 4-week: https://www.mas.gov.sg/bonds-and-bills/auct...date=2022-12-02 12-week: https://www.mas.gov.sg/bonds-and-bills/auct...date=2022-12-02 |
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Nov 30 2022, 11:21 AM
Show posts by this member only | IPv6 | Post
#127
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2,543 posts Joined: Jan 2003 |
QUOTE(TOS @ Nov 30 2022, 09:02 AM) Yesterday's 4-week and 12-week MAS Bill auction results: Yet the sg pipu so dumb bid low2 for the t bills
4-week 5.49% is crazy yield figure... The SG institutions all pakat and bully cheng hu Source: 4-week: https://www.mas.gov.sg/bonds-and-bills/auct...date=2022-12-02 12-week: https://www.mas.gov.sg/bonds-and-bills/auct...date=2022-12-02 |
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Nov 30 2022, 11:44 AM
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8,667 posts Joined: Aug 2019 From: Penang <-> Singapore |
QUOTE(ikanbilis @ Nov 30 2022, 11:21 AM) Did sgh bid "low low"? (If yes, that means he says you are dumb. Actually, cannot blame them entirely. It's law of one price at work. SG government sets a much-lower-than-market risk-free rate for their CPF accounts, so it's rational for people to queue for hours just to secure a higher rate of return on their CPF savings by investing in T-bills, which carries the same risk profile as CPF accounts. In the end CPF proceeds, (which goes into purchasing SSGS first) and T-bills proceeds all go to GIC in the long run, so it is always in the interest of GIC to borrow with a lower rate from CPF savers. Principal-agent problem. Anyway, GIC will have to work hard these few years. Free money era is over. |
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Nov 30 2022, 12:41 PM
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122 posts Joined: Feb 2019 |
QUOTE(TOS @ Nov 23 2022, 04:47 PM) I received DBS FD promo today. New promo code, so I guess it's another campaign: https://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopi...ost&p=105950711 How does the bond work?Anyway, I bid 4.35% p.a., pity those Sporeans... Must submit a bid price like in the stock market? |
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Nov 30 2022, 01:55 PM
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8,667 posts Joined: Aug 2019 From: Penang <-> Singapore |
QUOTE(tradingGo @ Nov 30 2022, 12:41 PM) You can look up MAS official website for info on SG T-bills: https://www.mas.gov.sg/bonds-and-bills/Sing...for-IndividualsQUOTE Treasury bills (T-bills) are short-term Singapore Government Securities (SGS) issued at a discount to their face value. Investors receive the full face value at maturity. The Government issues 6-month and 1-year T-bills. Reddevil has his own version on HWZ, which is easier for you to understand: https://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/threads/...-bills.6769601/ ------------------------------------------ The bill (Technically, <1 year maturity = bill, 2-10 year = note, >10 year = bond) is issued at discount to par value of 1000 SGD. So, you pay in multiples of 1000 SGD to MAS, MAS refund the discount to you, and at maturity, MAS return you the multiples of 1000 SGD you paid earlier. 3 cashflows involved. The bidding process is called "uniform price auction". There are 2 ways you can purchase the T-bill. Non-competitive bid vs competitive bid. Reddevil summarized those 2 processes in his post. QUOTE When you apply for T-bills, there are 2 options, competitive or non-competitive bids. ------------------------------Non-competitive = you will accept whatever yield (i.e., Cut-off Yield) that came out from the auction. In other words, if the cut-off yield is 2%, think of it as if you interest on an annualised basis is going to be 2%. So if you were to apply for $1,000 for a t-bill with 6 months tenor, you will almost immediately after the auction get back ~$10 upfront. Then your $1,000 will be credited back to you at the end of the 6 months. Competitive = you want a baseline as to what yield you might want to accept. So example, you can find a yield of 2.5% somewhere else, so you wouldn't bid for T-bills if you don't get better than 2.5% from it, in that case you may want to put in a competitive bid of 2.55%. Should the eventual cut-off yield be 2.7%, you will get the t-bill, but instead of getting a yield of 2.55%, you will get a yield of 2.7%. Should the eventual cut-off yield be 2.2%, you will get nothing. To conclude for Competitive If your bid is < cut-off yield, you will definitely get the full allocation an the yield is the cut-off yield If your bid is = cut-off yield, your allocation is pro-rata (stand to be corrected) and the yield is the cut-off yield If your bid is > cut-off yield, you get nothing. Use non-competitive bid if you really want those T-bills regardless of what yield is given. Use competitive bid (i.e., you need to enter a bid yield) to ensure a minimum floor which means you won't accept any yield below your stipulated bid yield. You will need a CDP-linked bank account with DBS, UOB and OCBC plus a CDP account in Singapore in order to be able to purchase T-bills or SSBs. |
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Nov 30 2022, 04:51 PM
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122 posts Joined: Feb 2019 |
QUOTE(TOS @ Nov 30 2022, 01:55 PM) You can look up MAS official website for info on SG T-bills: https://www.mas.gov.sg/bonds-and-bills/Sing...for-Individuals Thanks for the info and all the links! Really helpful!Reddevil has his own version on HWZ, which is easier for you to understand: https://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/threads/...-bills.6769601/ ------------------------------------------ The bill (Technically, <1 year maturity = bill, 2-10 year = note, >10 year = bond) is issued at discount to par value of 1000 SGD. So, you pay in multiples of 1000 SGD to MAS, MAS refund the discount to you, and at maturity, MAS return you the multiples of 1000 SGD you paid earlier. 3 cashflows involved. The bidding process is called "uniform price auction". There are 2 ways you can purchase the T-bill. Non-competitive bid vs competitive bid. Reddevil summarized those 2 processes in his post. ------------------------------ Use non-competitive bid if you really want those T-bills regardless of what yield is given. Use competitive bid (i.e., you need to enter a bid yield) to ensure a minimum floor which means you won't accept any yield below your stipulated bid yield. You will need a CDP-linked bank account with DBS, UOB and OCBC plus a CDP account in Singapore in order to be able to purchase T-bills or SSBs. Are the returns usually lower than FDs? |
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Nov 30 2022, 05:08 PM
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8,667 posts Joined: Aug 2019 From: Penang <-> Singapore |
QUOTE(tradingGo @ Nov 30 2022, 04:51 PM) You asked a very good question. There should be only one risk-free rate for each tenure. T-bills therefore should yield somewhere close to SGD onshore FD (promo) rates. I can't speak for the past few years when yields are close to 0. For this year, when yields are rising, the observation is T-bills rate pull ahead first, as they follow US T-bill rates. The SG banks are the last in line to play catch-up game. So, right now the returns are quite close. 6-month onshore SGD FD promo rates from major SG banks are somewhere around 3.5-3.9% p.a. and (no) thanks to the huge influx of CPF money in the last two 6-month T-bills issues, the 6-month bill now yields 3.9% p.a., so that amounts to a difference of some 40-50 basis points, depending on which bank you are looking at. Large stable S-banks usually carry lower promo FD rates at 3.5-3.55% whereas smaller/foreign banks like BOC offer better rates of 3.85-3.9% p.a though you end up with a slightly higher (counterparty) risk. https://sgfd.neocities.org/ tradingGo liked this post
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Nov 30 2022, 06:33 PM
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8,667 posts Joined: Aug 2019 From: Penang <-> Singapore |
CPF Board announced yesterday that the various CPF account rates remain unchanged through 31st March 2023.
https://www.cpf.gov.sg/member/infohub/news/...re-sum-for-2023 It's gonna be tough for the next few months for SG T-bill bidding. |
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Dec 1 2022, 04:46 PM
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8,667 posts Joined: Aug 2019 From: Penang <-> Singapore |
Jan 2023 SSB rates announced today. Closing date: 27 Dec 2022, 9pm. https://www.mas.gov.sg/bonds-and-bills/auct...date=2023-01-03 Amount offered: 900 million SGD ikanbilis liked this post
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Dec 1 2022, 05:04 PM
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#135
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2,543 posts Joined: Jan 2003 |
T bill 22124H announced today. Auction date 8 dec 2022 https://www.mas.gov.sg/bonds-and-bills/auct...date=2022-12-13 Amount offered 4.6 billion TaiGoh liked this post
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Dec 1 2022, 10:39 PM
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302 posts Joined: Mar 2010 |
How about Malaysia government bond?
Anyone is buying Malaysia government bond? |
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Dec 1 2022, 11:02 PM
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8,667 posts Joined: Aug 2019 From: Penang <-> Singapore |
QUOTE(zebras @ Dec 1 2022, 10:39 PM) lol Malaysia government securities are on a very different risk spectrum. Malaysia government securities are issued mostly to institutions like banks, insurance companies and local asset management firms. Foreign investors like them too. QUOTE Malaysian Government securities are marketable debt instruments issued by the Government of Malaysia to raise funds from the domestic capital market. The central bank (Bank Negara Malaysia) acts as banker and adviser to the Government and assists in planning and facilitating issuances through market infrastructure that it owns and operates. Currently, the various forms of Government securities in Malaysia are: Malaysian Government Securities (MGS) - long-term interest-bearing debt securities issued by the Government of Malaysia to raise funds from the domestic capital market for development expenditure Malaysian Government Investment Issues (MGII) - long-term Islamic Government securities, issued based on established Shariah principles Malaysian Treasury Bills (MTB) - short-term discount securities issued by the Government of Malaysia for working capital Malaysian Islamic Treasury Bills (MITB) - short-term Islamic Government securities, issued based on established Shariah principles Source: https://www.bnm.gov.my/financialmarkets/bondmarket Malaysia government rarely sell bonds directly to the public. (The last time they did that was during the issuance of Sukuk Prihatin, can Google the details of that bond online). For now, the most straightforward way is to buy Malaysia government securities on FSM MY bond express platform. https://www.fsmone.com.my/bonds/bond-express/retail-bonds The minimum denomination can be quite high at 10,000 MYR. Also beware that bonds held on FSM are subject to counterparty risk (FSM is holding it for you). There is no CDS-like central depository facility in Malaysia for bonds, unlike Singapore. Hope that helps. |
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Dec 1 2022, 11:03 PM
Show posts by this member only | IPv6 | Post
#138
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2,543 posts Joined: Jan 2003 |
QUOTE(zebras @ Dec 1 2022, 10:39 PM) Malaysia bond can refer to thread belowhttps://forum.lowyat.net/topic/5328012 TOS liked this post
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Dec 3 2022, 11:58 AM
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692 posts Joined: Nov 2021 |
T-bill rate has been spoiled by those using CPF OA so they bid low as long as above 2.5% they happy. Now CIMB SG 6 month onwards FD is 4% and above so I have placed there instead. Looking at other bank FD, Bank of China, ICBC China banks FD not bad and theirs can terminate FD via mobile app no need call in or go branch which is what I like. BOC minimum placement 5000 and ICBC 500 all best the Msian banks in Spore just their rates slower to match CIMB RHB etc
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Dec 3 2022, 12:12 PM
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128 posts Joined: Jan 2007 |
QUOTE(sgh @ Dec 3 2022, 11:58 AM) T-bill rate has been spoiled by those using CPF OA so they bid low as long as above 2.5% they happy. Now CIMB SG 6 month onwards FD is 4% and above so I have placed there instead. Looking at other bank FD, Bank of China, ICBC China banks FD not bad and theirs can terminate FD via mobile app no need call in or go branch which is what I like. BOC minimum placement 5000 and ICBC 500 all best the Msian banks in Spore just their rates slower to match CIMB RHB etc Thanks for the info!Foresee the upcoming T-bills cut off rate will be lower than 4%, so putting CIMB SG 6 Months FD might be a wiser choice. The only downside is 10k minimum placement.. |
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