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 Military Thread V29

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darth5zaft
post May 1 2023, 05:27 AM

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QUOTE(KLthinker91 @ Apr 28 2023, 05:55 PM)
There are many many many things wrong with LCS for USN let's put this way biggrin.gif it would take too long to go through

Anyway it's just a suggestion. There could be many reasons why we shouldn't take it up either
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A great ship for the LMS2 requirements thought.



ukapaka
post May 1 2023, 01:40 PM

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Another bully case? If true what a waste of investment and unnecessary waste of life.

Edit: no one was dead thankfully.

https://twitter.com/ummiiiiinmo/status/1652732431030697985

This post has been edited by ukapaka: May 1 2023, 01:49 PM
azriel
post May 4 2023, 09:28 PM

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QUOTE
IMDEX 2023: Singapore shares MRCV design details

4th May 2023 - 00:27 GMT | by Chen Chuanren in Singapore

Singapore's new Multi Role Combat Vessel is designed to be a 'mothership' for various types of uncrewed systems, the navy has revealed.

The Republic of Singapore Navy (RSN) has lifted the curtains on its Multi Role Combat Vessel (MRCV) design, sharing that it will be the first of its kind to be an ‘unmanned systems mothership’.

It has engaged Saab Kockums and Odense Maritime Technology (OMT) to provide the basic design by the end of 2023, before ST Engineering dives into detail in work 2024 as well as the construction phase.

The MRCV will replace six Victory-class missile corvettes, with the first vessel due for 2028 delivery.

The Defence Science and Technology Agency (DSTA) remains the project manager and system integrator.

OMT is part of the team that presented the design for the Type 31 frigate, and is also responsible for the Danish Navy’s Iver Huitfeldt-class frigates, both between 5,700 and 6,600t.

user posted image
Saab Kockums and Odense Maritime Technology (will provide the basic design by the end of 2023 with ST Engineering picking up detail work in 2024. (Image: MINDEF)

While the project remains to be in the design stage, Maj James Lim of the MRCV project office told Shephard the MRCV will be ‘a little larger’ than the frigates, which are 3,200t, and need to be stable enough to operate multiple uncrewed systems.

An Initial rendering also shows the MRCV with two stern ramps to deploy and retrieve large RHIB-sized craft.

The RSN has also already selected the OEMs for the self-defence suites (Thales, MBDA and Leonardo), without providing specifics.

Based on the RSN’s past requirements it is likely that the ship will be equipped with Leonardo’s 76mm main gun, 12.7mm Hitrole remote weapon systems, MBDA's Mica-VL or even the Aster-15/30 anti-aircraft missile, and a new Thales multi-function radar, likely the APAR or Sea Fire systems.


Read more: https://www.shephardmedia.com/news/naval-wa...design-details/
azriel
post May 4 2023, 09:30 PM

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Mai189
post May 4 2023, 11:37 PM

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Naval news insists that full load displacement is 10000 tons from its sources in SAAB i.e. with it's complement of helicopter, USVs, UUVS, UAVs, mission modules, etc. Whether or not RSN eventually makes reference to that or a lower tonnage figure is their prerogative. RSN seems uncomfortable to give a definitive figure but did say that it won't be bigger than the Endurance class lpd which is about 8500 to 9000 tons at full load.

Regardless, it is clear that the ship is way bigger than the Formidables and certainly more formidable. The current Iver stands at 6000+ to 7000 tons

It won't be the Vanguard 130/140 as confirmed by ST Engineering in the video which is >5000 ton ship. I always thought this design is too tight.

Do a side by side comparison with the Iver and you'd realise that the ship seems longer than the baseline Iver.

Parts to note:

1) Front of the ship has been extended/enlarged to accommodate the Slyver VLS launchers - shows 32 VLS but the space can accommodate around 48 launchers. The baseline Iver has space only for up to a 76mm gun - and space is tight.

2) Centre mission bay seems extended/enlarged and can accommodate more VLS launchers - at least 32 to 48 more VLS launchers. Plus not 24 SSMs (likely more advanced variant of Blue Spear anti ship/land attack missiles) - I suspect at least 32 SSMs. Note: Formidable class centre mission bay can accommodate 24 SSMs.

3) helicopter deck is certainly extended/enlarged to accommodate the launching of helicopters and Uavs and USVs in the lower deck. The baseline Iver has a shorter helicopter deck.

This post has been edited by Mai189: May 5 2023, 02:26 PM
icemanfx
post May 4 2023, 11:50 PM

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QUOTE(Mai189 @ May 4 2023, 11:37 PM)
Naval news insists that full load displacement is 10000 tons.
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More likely frigate class 3000 to 4000 ton.

Mai189
post May 5 2023, 12:02 AM

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QUOTE(icemanfx @ May 4 2023, 11:50 PM)
More likely frigate class 3000 to 4000 ton.
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No. It already uses the Ivers hull as a baseline which is 6000+ to 7000 ton ship.

Look at the design in the artist impression cum video above and do an overlay over the original Iver - see my post above.


Mai189
post May 5 2023, 12:14 AM

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Radar is more or less confirmed to be the Seafire 500 AESA radar or otherwise known as Europes Aegis Spy radar. This also means that RSN will be operating Aster 30s and the newer Mica vl NG on the MRCVs and upgraded Formidable frigates.

Now, it would be interesting to see if RSN will replace the Herakles radar on the Formidables with the newer Seafire 500 radar as part of the current Formidable mid life upgrade. Herakes Bk 2 is a more cost effective alternative though with longer range than the current Herakles.

Note that the video of the MRCV is an artist impression at this point in time - no doubt close to the actual design.

I look forward to seeing more advanced models of the MRCVs as the design is refined further. Or that we have an actual model to look at.

These 12 surface combatants i.e. the MRCVs and Formidables will be the most powerful surface naval flotilla in ASEAN with significant area air defence, anti surface and anti sub capabilities. And then theres the modular LMVs which can be configured into large corvettes, Invincible and Archer class submarines, future ocean going light frigates or OPVs and future Lhds or JMMS. RSN is largely a green water navy now and honestly, it looks like an upper tier European-NATO navy.

This post has been edited by Mai189: May 5 2023, 11:56 AM
Mai189
post May 5 2023, 12:50 AM

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QUOTE
..with completed design still being worked out..


It isn't the final design. But I guess RSN wants to give a flavour of the MRCV for now. Pretty damn good ship at that.
Mai189
post May 5 2023, 02:50 PM

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QUOTE(Mai189 @ May 4 2023, 11:37 PM)


Naval news insists that full load displacement is 10000 tons from its sources in SAAB i.e. with it's complement of helicopter, USVs, UUVS, UAVs, mission modules, etc. Whether or not RSN eventually makes reference to that or a lower tonnage figure is their prerogative. RSN seems uncomfortable to give a definitive figure but did say that it won't be bigger than the Endurance class lpd which is about 8500 to 9000 tons at full load.

Regardless, it is clear that the ship is way bigger than the Formidables and certainly more formidable. The current Iver stands at 6000+ to 7000 tons

It won't be the Vanguard 130/140 as confirmed by ST Engineering in the video which is >5000 ton ship. I always thought this design is too tight.

Do a side by side comparison with the Iver and you'd realise that the ship seems longer than the baseline Iver.

Parts to note:

1) Front of the ship has been extended/enlarged to accommodate the Slyver VLS launchers - shows 32 VLS but the space can accommodate around 48 launchers. The baseline Iver has space only for up to a 76mm gun - and space is tight.

2) Centre mission bay seems extended/enlarged and can accommodate more VLS launchers - at least 32 to 48 more VLS launchers.  Plus not 24 SSMs (likely more advanced variant of Blue Spear anti ship/land attack missiles) - I suspect at least 32 SSMs. Note: Formidable class centre mission bay can accommodate 24 SSMs.

3) helicopter deck is certainly extended/enlarged to accommodate the launching of helicopters and Uavs and USVs in the lower deck. The baseline Iver has a shorter helicopter deck.
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The graphics of the MRCV isnt really created to scale but we can do a visual comparison of the parts of the ship I mentioned above vis a vis the original or baseline Iver:

Front of bridge weapon platform - note the 4 A50/70 Slyver launchers (or 8 x 4 or 32 VLS cells). There is space for 2 more A50/70 Slyver launchers. I am anticipating around 32 Aster 30 Blk 1 nt and 16 vl Mica Ng (note micas don't need Slyver launchers but comes in individual canisters so they can be easily installed around the Slyver launchers):

user posted image

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Centre mission bay:

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Heli Deck - also see the size of the hangar door (p.s: there is a ec725 parked inside the MRCV)

user posted image


user posted image

user posted image

This post has been edited by Mai189: May 5 2023, 03:16 PM
Mai189
post May 5 2023, 04:28 PM

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More details of the MRCV - good article:

https://www.edrmagazine.eu/singapore-provid...e-combat-vessel

Plus the near certain configuration of the Aster 30 Blk 1 NT/Vl Mica Ng missile configuration which are already integrated with the Seafire radar:

user posted image

user posted image

As shared, the MRCV's front weapon or mission platform (front of bridge,) can accommodate at least 32 Aster 30s Blk 1 NT and 16 VL Mica Ng missiles.

Aster 30 BLk 1 NT has >150 km range for medium to long range area air defence. Meanwhile, VL MIca NG is a shorad with max range of 40km.

^ Note: I am expecting the mid life upgraded Formidables to carry the same anti air missile load. Yes, there is space front of the Formidables bridge. Question is whether RSN will use Seafire on the upgraded Formidables or upgrade the current Herakles PESA radar. The upgraded version of the Herakles has range in excess of 300km and has been installed on the French Freda AAW destroyers/frigates.

Formidable class front weapon/missile platform;

user posted image

Note: the 4 Slyver launcher modules are spaced out and they can be packed closer together for the integration of 16 Mica vl NG individual VLS cannisters behind the Slyver launchers. Whoever designed the Formidables should be given awards for their ingenuity.

This post has been edited by Mai189: May 5 2023, 04:53 PM
KLthinker91
post May 5 2023, 06:51 PM

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From: Cherasboy
QUOTE(Mai189 @ May 5 2023, 04:28 PM)
they can be packed closer together
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Nope
Mai189
post May 5 2023, 07:21 PM

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QUOTE(KLthinker91 @ May 5 2023, 06:51 PM)
Nope
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They can..

user posted image
user posted image
KLthinker91
post May 5 2023, 07:40 PM

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From: Cherasboy
QUOTE(Mai189 @ May 5 2023, 07:21 PM)
They can..

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the highlighted section here is less than half a meter
you squeeze how also you won't squeeze another A-50 set in there

user posted image
Mai189
post May 5 2023, 08:40 PM

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QUOTE(KLthinker91 @ May 5 2023, 07:40 PM)
the highlighted section here is less than half a meter
you squeeze how also you won't squeeze another A-50 set in there

user posted image
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Whoever said anything about a 3rd row of A50 slyver launchers? /facepalm

You dont buy sylver to fit in vl mica or vl mica ng. Move the current two rows of Slyver closer similar to how they are installed on the horizon class or charles de gualle - see my previous post. Add in the individual vl mica launch cannisters behind.

Micas are compact missiles (more compact then Asters) and fitted in compact invidual launch cannisters.

user posted image

This post has been edited by Mai189: May 5 2023, 09:03 PM
Mai189
post May 5 2023, 08:43 PM

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Gabriel 5/Sea Serpent/Blue Spear..

Active Aesa radar guided with range of up to 400+ km depending on flight profile.

The often quoted max range of 290km (without booster launch rocket) is its low-low or sea skimming profile:

QUOTE
The Sea Serpent is designed to give a good stand off range. In its flight profile, it can achieve greater than 290 km in a low profile mode. It has an extensive capability against peer plus threats. But I can’t give details about its terminal phase on this unclassified forum. I can say that it is hugely exciting and the Royal Navy will be pleasantly surprised with the capabilities that we are offering


https://www.navalnews.com/event-news/dsei-2...i-ship-missile/

No prizes as to what surface to surface/anti-ship missile the MRCV will carry.

The LMV also has a yet to be seen anti-ship/anti-surface missile module. I suspect the Blue Spear will come in the form of mission containers installed just of the rear of the bridge superstructure. Is the Blue Spear designed to be launched from such mission containers? Yes.

This post has been edited by Mai189: May 5 2023, 08:57 PM
KLthinker91
post May 5 2023, 10:21 PM

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QUOTE(Mai189 @ May 5 2023, 08:40 PM)
Move the current two rows of Slyver closer similar to how they are installed on the horizon class or charles de gualle - see my previous post. Add in the individual vl mica launch cannisters behind.
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tight squeeze if at all possible - I'm still not sure
the MICA VL installation is not extremely compact
just one cell you see here measures approximately 36cm x 54cm minimum
as I showed you, the bit of gap between the two existing A-50 launchers is less than half a metre
and you can't take ALL of that space, there will always be a few cm here and there

user posted image
KLthinker91
post May 6 2023, 03:33 AM

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Beautiful picture of French Horizon class frigate

user posted image
Mai189
post May 6 2023, 10:24 AM

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QUOTE(KLthinker91 @ May 6 2023, 03:33 AM)
Beautiful picture of French Horizon class frigate

user posted image
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Indeed it is. One of the photos above which I posted is from the Horizon class. As you can see, the gap between the rows of Slyver launchers are even tighter - tighter than the Formidable.

I think your point is that I am suggesting for an integrated module akin to the US MK 41 system.

Not at all.

I am saying that as the two rows on the Formidable can be eve tighter or closer together - see the photos of the horizon and Charles dw Gaulle I've shared. You can install two rows of micas at the space behind.

This post has been edited by Mai189: May 6 2023, 10:41 AM
Mai189
post May 6 2023, 10:33 AM

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QUOTE(KLthinker91 @ May 5 2023, 10:21 PM)
tight squeeze if at all possible - I'm still not sure
the MICA VL installation is not extremely compact
just one cell you see here measures approximately 36cm x 54cm minimum
as I showed you, the bit of gap between the two existing A-50 launchers is less than half a metre
and you can't take ALL of that space, there will always be a few cm here and there

user posted image
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Well the entire ship is unbelievably tight/compact but packed with weapons in the first place. It has more/better weapons than some destroyers or larger frigates.

The Micas are in self sustaining containerized launchers. They missile and individual launchers are smaller than the slyver and the asters for sure.

They managed to fit in 12 launchers on a smaller space on each lmv:

user posted image

This post has been edited by Mai189: May 6 2023, 10:40 AM

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