This is a robust design aka Type 31 and a good choice. But I think PT Pal are meddling with Babcock until everyone gets confused.

Japan Fleet Review 2022 live.



It is 3hr+ long so itll be sometime before your respective ship is seen..

This one better:

This post has been edited by alexz23: Nov 7 2022, 11:23 AM

Thanks on the 76mm super rapid - which again doesnt make sense to have two. A more reasonable option is to have a 35mm millennium gun on the upper deck.

Does not remotely resemble sylver launchers for Asters - as ive said, it is unlike any i have seen.

The mast does not resemble the current design of Sea Fire though the arrays can indeed be integrated into different masts. My point is - if this is a radar with planar arrays, it is missing from the mast after all the effort of coming up with the model.

Brahmos will trigger CAATSA and more importantly, how do you integrate Brahmos with Western C2 systems? Go Indian?

The model is nothing more than someone's wet dream or that the folks behind this project are as undecided and confused from the outset esp. given the lack of funding. If this project goes ahead, I am expecting the original Iver frigate sans most of the things you see in the model.

This post has been edited by Mai189: Nov 7 2022, 11:36 AM

It has a 35mm millenium gun at on top of the hangar, but no FCR for it on the model.

Original Iver Huitfeldt does have 2x 76mm super rapid

I dont think they are the Super Rapid version but the basic 76mm guns with slower firing rate.

But yes, more and more I look at it- the model seems to be carrying 2 127mm guns.

This post has been edited by Mai189: Nov 7 2022, 11:49 AM

in your dreams
57th far far more likely

Hunter was only prototyped in mid-2018. 500 modern vehicles in 4 years?! you siao lah, only countries like the USA and China builds at that rate.

a) learn what is "enclosed mast"

b) that's not big enough to be 127mm. might be 76mm or even 57mm, most likely the former like the Martadinata-class frigates

c) the model shows only 56 VLS forward and 16? VLS amidships which is not more than a Burke. even if it's MICA, in the future environment with drone swarms a possibility there's nothing wrong with squeezing a few more tubes in

and at the end of the day, in the words of Patsy, it's only a model - as usual you let your head run away with building assumptions on top of assumptions on top of assumptions. simple answer to your castle in the sky: "final product may differ from illustration shown"

what on earth is a 35mm gun going to contribute?

dual 76mms can deal with more than one threat in two directions at once, or both target an incoming missile. noting wrong with that. have a look at the Italian Horizon-class frigate.

integration of non-NATO equipment depends on the equipment capabilities and what level of integration is ultimately achieved. refer: AGM-88s on MIG-29s, GBU-10s on Su-30s.

the model is a model, nothing more and nothing less. quit running around like Chicken Little

This post has been edited by KLthinker91: Nov 7 2022, 12:01 PM

This is what..with serial No. 31? No. 310?



If the prototype is revealed in 2018 - must it be the case that they start testing then or prior to it?

And what was ST Engineerings land division or 10k plus workers doing in the 4 to 5 years after the construction of the Terrex is done? 500/ assume 4+ =100+ chassis thereabout in one year.

Read up on SAF serial numbers: http://kementah.blogspot.com/2013/08/guide...af-mid.html?m=1

Oh really, an enclosed mast? OR R u CONFUSED with an integrated mast - in which case, my point still stands - where are the planar arrays if it is an integrated mast esp. since they have gone as far as to put in the other details?

This is the difference between a typical integrated mast (left pic) and an enclosed mast (right pic):



See the difference in shape esp. for the radar that is housed "within" the conical radar dome for the enclosed mast.

Oh yes you are right abt the VLS cells on the AB. Correction: It has more VLS cells than a basic Type 45 or Horizon destroyers. Big difference it makes in terms of the point Im making.

The 35mm is cheaper and can deal with air targets. The Italians and French do not use the 35mm millennium gun and that is why they have 2 76mm guns. The French may use a Nexter 40mm gun in future. The Indonesians have both the 35mm gun and 76mm SR. It makes more sense to have 1 76mm gun and 35mm gun if the concern is air threat with the 76mm retaining a better anti surface capability.

Have you seen a Brahmos integrated on a western naval oriented ship? One can always hypothetically say it can be done. But easier said than done. Also, who is going to pay? India?

The only one running around like a chicken is You. Some people enjoy posting and having a discussion. Grow up KLthinker! Wonder why ah?

Edit: ST has about 22k+ workers working in the various sectors.

This post has been edited by Mai189: Nov 7 2022, 01:38 PM

Yeah sure
And nobody in the history of defence has ever played around with serial numbering before (and other methods) to disguise the true numbers of assets

There are practically no details at all on the main mast. As usual you're jumping to conclusions than jumping from there to ever further conclusions until what you say barely resembles reality. Yes, an "enclosed mast" could well be a possibility, though personally I think the model is simply incomplete. You however ignored the option entirely and proceeded to rant and rave as usual.

The Type 45 project is going on 20 years old now. This is a proposal for a future design. The threat picture has changed significantly and there's no reason why a ship may mount more VLS cells. Which is why the Royal Navy is adding 24 more missiles to the Type 45 for a total of 72 Aster 30 and CAMM. Go on, go tell them they're idiots and barely resemble reality.

The Oto Melara 76mm system is more capable than the 35mm Millenium, even for anti-air and close in defence role. It's not for lack of options that the Italian Navy chose it - it's one of the best gun-based anti-missile defences around. If the Indonesians don't mind a little extra top weight, or shell out for lightweight mounts, theres no reason why it shouldn't be chosen.

P.s. I won't say what can or can't be done with Brahmos OR any other missile system. Suffice to say I won't be so arrogant or so far removed from anything resembling reality as to imagine that it is TOTALLY IMPOSSIBLE!!1!!

This post has been edited by KLthinker91: Nov 7 2022, 01:45 PM

Whats wrong with you KLthinker? Your post is emotional. Cannot take a critique?

By all means.. if you think they are fibbing with serial numbers for something considered a run-of-the-mill equipment as an IFV esp. given the hundreds of M113 they are going to replace with the Hunter AFVs anyway.

Of course the model is incomplete and unreliable. That is what im saying..duh. The model has never seen before vls and what appears 2 be 2 127mm guns and a mast without radar (not an enclosed mast).

You are missing the point. The Type45 is a 8000 ton to 9000 ton ship and weapons like Asters and Brahmos are not light or their launchers. As another poster has pointed out, there may be stablization issues. There must be a reason for ships of a certain size to carry a typical number of VLS.

Some would argue the 35mm Millenium is better at in an anti-aircraft/anti-missile role with its 1000 round per minute rate compared to the 120 rounds per minute for the SR 76mm.

And you are missing the point again on the Oto Melara. The Indo navy uses the 35 millenium and 76mm guns. It makes sense to use these then spend more on 2 SR 76mm.

It certainly is a far fetch from reality to see Brahmos on a western oriented ship seeing as such there is none now! You want to pay for the integration?

Edit:

Singapore bought approximately 1000 M113s (Top secret right for the number of Hunter AFVs Sg will acquire to replace the M113s (sarcasm))

300 M113A1 APCs delivered between 1973 and 1974
500 M113A1 APCs delivered between 1978 and 1980
200 M113A2 APCs delivered between 1988 and 1989

This post has been edited by Mai189: Nov 7 2022, 07:14 PM

Thought babcock is currently the owner of Iver Huitfeldt/Absalon IP?


Pappy aren't dumb.
Because they aren't dumb they ain't going to build 500 IFV in 5 years to replace the 1000 m113 they acquired during a duration of 30 years.

Ain't they glad they don't get you as a citizen?

This post has been edited by darth5zaft: Nov 7 2022, 03:19 PM

Double post- see below.

This post has been edited by Mai189: Nov 7 2022, 03:36 PM

Seriously your posts dude...





https://www.army-technology.com/projects/hu...ng-vehicle-afv/

News to me. Development started in 2006. ST supposedly started construction in 2017 (after the last batch of Terrex IFVs (of which there are 300-400 based on serial numbers). It is very reasonable to expect 500 Hunter AFVs by now in end-2022.

OMT/naval team denmark is still the IP owner of Iver Huitfeldt design.

Iver Huitfeldt AAW Frigate

On Hunter AFV

Do not underestimate Singapore manufacturing capability.

They have manufactured 800++ Bionix AFVs



4 years, 400+ AFV manuactured is within their capability.

This have been posted before here. PT PAL 143 meter frigate. The model on display at Indo Defence 2022 is based from this brochure. Credit to Yang Wen.



http://defense-studies.blogspot.com/2022/0...batant.html?m=1

Well babcock said in an interview they are the owner now.
Off course it's not impossible for 2 or more shipyard selling more or less the same thing. Kedah,Makassar & type 206 is a fine example.

Personally ,There's really nothing wrong with TNI ordering air warfare frigates. Type 31 designs is backwards compatible with the equipment & weapons from the iver huitfeldt & Absalon. UK also has a stronger economy & military then the Danes. So if you want to 'bribe' someone might as well send it to the Brits then the Danes.


it's also a model shown at PT pal booth. Of course taking out the essm,sm2 & tomahawk out of the original design and put in mica, brahmos & aster is PT pal wettest dream as the integration cost would be very lucrative to their bottom lines using 'non block' as the justification to do it.

Personally if they had gone with essm,sm2 & tomahawk then I wish RMN just get this one rather than the LMS batch 2.

This post has been edited by darth5zaft: Nov 7 2022, 06:16 PM

https://www.kompas.id/baca/polhuk/2022/11/0...sanan-indonesia

https://www.kemhan.go.id/2022/11/07/disaksi...kerja-sama.html

I am no longer inclined to believe what Indo "intends" to buy as it just crazy - e.g. first Brahmos, then NSM, now Atamaca. Or F15ID, Rafale, KFX, Mirage 2000, etc.

The root issue is that there is no funding. It is an onerous process of seeking approval for commensurate foreign loans, getting the foreign loans in a difficult climate and investors and contractors worried that Indo can afford the loans with interest.

This post has been edited by Mai189: Nov 7 2022, 07:12 PM