hey guys... so today i had an argument with my friend... he said DotA is RPG game because it involves character building. However, i believe DotA is a strategy game because it involves resource gathering and team works...

So, what is you guys opinion on what genre is DotA belong to? Strategy or RPG?

According to Wikipedia,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Role-playing_game
Role-playing game, in which players assume the roles of characters and collaboratively create narratives

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real-time_strategy
In computer gaming, real-time strategy (often abbreviated as RTS) is a genre of wargames which take place in real time.

Serious discussion only please.

dota is no game!!!! it's a matter of life and death!!!

seconded for truth.

Dota is in no way a full RTS game.

You do not gather resources , you hunt for resources. This resembles all the RPG games like Maple , FF , where you control 1 or a few characters to hunt for that resource.

You do not teamwork with your own units , basically cause you control only 1 unit in most cases.

You have nothing to do with base building whatsover , you just control 1 unit in most cases.

Dota in no way is a full RTS game. May have elements of it but it is NOT. minimal micromanagement is needed compared to true RTS games.

Well, its not a true blue RPG in the vein of Baldur's Gate or Final Fantasy, but it definitely is one.

The genre you're looking for is Action RPG... Basically, RPGs that have pretty much all the narrative and questing stripped down to cater for pure action-based gameplay. You still have all the regular hallmarks of an RPG like character progression, inventory and item management and of course... stats based combat.

Games in this genre include Diablo, Dungeon Siege, Titan Quest, etc.


Plus, in your quote for the definition of an RTS, you only quoted the part that suited your opinion... Here's the rest:


Still think DotA's an RTS?

This post has been edited by H@H@: Aug 31 2007, 11:15 PM

Actually there is no specified definition for RTS... 10 ppl can come out with 10 different definitions. I somehow disagree that a RTS must gather resources and control large number of armies.

What game genre is Maple and FF? RPG?

Contradictions

You are indeed a legendary poster .... big LOL at you

guys , TS is the guy who said west ham is invovled in match fixing and thats why sheffield united not happy .... legendary strike backs lol

This post has been edited by befitozi: Sep 2 2007, 04:00 AM

Then why did you quote Wikipedia then when they're definition is totally different from yours? Actually, why even have this thread if everyone is going to have their own definitions?

Hell, let's just throw away with "genres" since no one can agree on what a genre really is. Let's just keep the descriptions as detailed as possible so no one could possibly misunderstand what a game is.

So, when Starcraft 2 comes out, it'll be something like this:
Genres are there for a reason. If genres are solely based on individuals perceptions, technically speaking, ANY game could be in any genre.
Observe:
DotA
- First Person Shooter:- I mean, first person doesn't necessarily mean first person view right? I'm still controlling the character in the first person; I'm not using anyone to control them. Plus, you can shoot shit in DotA so therefore its an FPS.

- Racing :- A race is generally a contest to get to one objective faster than your competitor. Since in DotA, you have to race against your opponent to destroy their tree/throne, therefore DotA is a racing game.

- Flight Simulator :- Do the dragons in DotA not simulate flying in the game? Flight sim it is!

- Football :- Football involves two teams on opposing ends trying to score a goal in the opposition corner. Now, a goal is also known as an objective and since the objective of DotA is to destroy the the Tree/Throne at the opposition corner, therefore DotA is a football game (Come to think of it, this definition could also include Battlefield and a slew of team based MP games)

- MMORPG :- Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game.
Massive : To me, massive is having more than 5 players Check
Multiplayer: Needs more than one player to play Check
Online: Can be played on B.Net Check
Role-Playing: You have a role in the game... As a hero to defeat the enemy Check
Game: Its fun Check
Conclusion: DotA = MMORPG

... and I could go on and on and I can do this for pretty much EVERY game out there. Doesn't matter that some of these definitions are full of shit right? I mean, according to you EVERYONE's definition is correct no matter how retarded or stupid they are aren't they?


If you really want to argue your point on whether DotA is an RTS or not, use proper points and not immediately dismiss the general consensus. That just makes you look like an arrogant bugger trying to piss ppl off.

The bigger question remains though; Are you intentionally doing this to rile up the RTS gamers in this forum? I know how they sort of mocked you silly in the Starcraft 2 thread and nothing irks an RTS gamer more than DotA (They're eternal enemy) being considered to be an RTS.

Go read this
http://sport.scotsman.com/football.cfm?id=1301382007

and this

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/main.jhtm...ufnsheff116.xml

it really happened last season but i didn't see any discussion in the football Lounge.

FPS, Racing, Flight Simulator, Football(what?) are definately out. There are plenty of strategy games that do not require you to build buildings and train armies.

Sacrifice - strategy game but no need to build buildings... just steal enemy souls..
http://www.gamespot.com/pc/strategy/sacrif...=result;title;0

Caesar IV - strategy game but no need to gather resources
http://www.gamespot.com/pc/strategy/caesar4/index.html

RollerCoaster Tycoon - no harvest no battle but building (yes)
http://www.gamespot.com/pc/strategy/roller...coon/index.html

SimCity 4 - no harvest no destroy... just build
http://www.gamespot.com/pc/strategy/simcity4/index.html

Wikipedia mentions that ("harvest, build, destroy") are key components for strategy game yet the games i listed above do not have all the strategy game characteristics yet. You see they are still listed as "other strategy games" at gamespot. If you click on the "other strategy games" you will find the games listed above.

http://www.gamespot.com/games.html?type=ga...owse;category;6

The definition is not always right.

dude , the reason sheffield not happy is because of carlos tevez , nothing to do with match fixing .... i LOL at you again

Does it even matter? RPGs need a story and role for the player to fit in. I'd call dota an RPG if we see people actually playing in character, thinking and chatting like how the hero in question should be doing. I only do that occasionally, and only if i get techies. It's fun yelling DON'T RUN, WE ARE YOUR FRIENDS when you're going at full speed with a haste rune towards a target who knows it.

Otherwise, I'd consider dota an RTS. A dumbed down version for players to micromanage sure enough, but still more of an RTS. You have resources, you have units (allied, forest, dominated/summoned), a base to take care of strategically. Really doesn't feel like an RPG to me.

In some way I agreed your point on definition is not always right, especially when people just simply go copy and paste definition from wikipedia and believe what it say is right. Wikipedia can only be used as a reference and not to be used as an exact or layman term, correct answer, as bear in mind that, anyone can contribute to wikipedia.

And back to the topic, I seriously doubt what is presented by wikipedia on the definition of Strategy. Harvest, build and destroy ?? Hello ?? We are in 21st century and frankly that definition is only suitable 10 years ago where all RTS game are almost alike but not suitable for strategy games nowadays. Strategy games is in a period of transition right now as every developers out there are trying to make something different. So to me, as long as a particular game involve strategy thinking, resources handling, army formation, building placing, etc etc and involving controlling armies/race as a whole would be categorized as a strategy game.

RPG is more towards to controlling one or more character and most of the time, you are stuck with that character(s) until game over. Dota is similar to Neverwinter Night and/or Baldur's Gate alike so it's definitely a RPG game, hmm... I guess it's not a even consider as a game, it's just a mod.

Oh and btw, Caesar IV, Tycoon series and SimCity series are belongs to Strategy games, but they are categorized into a smaller category of Strategy, Simulation. Sacrifice I'm not too sure as the game been there for quite some time, cant remember exactly how the game looks like.

And may I know, the point of this argument ?? From the way I see it, even if the world sees dota as a strategy game, you still cant change the fact that, it's just a mod.

to me its RPG in an RTS environment.

Ok, I'll bite.
Sacrifice - Technically you can build a building in this game (Manaliths) so this is out. Plus, the way this game functions, YOU are the base.
Caesar IV - Dude, this game is ALL about resource gathering. There's like 15 different farms and resource gathering structures you can build to collect natural resources. Where the hell did you get the idea that there isn't resource gathering in this? Anyway, this game is more city simulator than RTS (The combat in this game is minor at best)
Roller Coaster Tycoon - This is NOT an RTS... Hell there's not even COMBAT in the game.
Simcity 4 - Same as above

So, you've given me 2 RTS games that still adhere to the traditional RTS model and 2 others that have no relation at all. Now, I know you're just pulling games out of your ass. Please quote proper examples next time. If you want to be taken seriously, use proper examples.

Anyway, if you must know, the core elements of an RTS are:
Base building/management
Combat using direct control of armies
Resource gathering/management

As long as an RTS has all of these (Or at least variations on one of these), its an RTS. DotA, pretty much only passes the resource gathering part.

Now, if we were to look at the core elements of an Action RPG:
Individual-based Combat heavy which rely heavily on stats
Inventory/Item management
Levels/Experience
Various styles of play using classes/roles, etc.

You'll see that DotA fits this almost perfectly.



Now, instead of us trying to defend your crap attempts at saying Dota's an RTS, how's about you show that DotA ISN'T an RPG. That make more sense? I mean, you should be able to give points and counter points for both sides of the fence right? Your argument is flawed otherwise.

This post has been edited by H@H@: Sep 4 2007, 12:00 AM

most of the efforts to by some people to show that dota is a rts game is due to the fact that they realise that the things you need to master and do in dota is FAR FAR less then a true RTS like Frozen Throne. they wanna relieve themselves from the fact that they are playing a far simplier game by bringing up the 'status' from a mod , to a rts ... what they should be doing is accept the fact that dota is not a rts game but something else which is special and different, something which has its own advantages and disadvantages ...


This post has been edited by befitozi: Sep 2 2007, 11:10 PM

Micromanage?
ZZZZ...........i wont call that micro. You control one unit and there is no macromanagement.
If controlling unit in dota is micro, then id say Diablo and WoW also requires micro.

Taking care of your 5 dragoon vs 3rines, a tank and few vulture with mines without losing any of your unit is micro (see pimpest plays 2006). Because you manage each unit. That is the definition of micromanagement to me. Pls cut the crap that DotA requires micro. It doesnt even exist in DotA.

there's no proper storyline in DotA at all.. how would that call an RPG??!!

we do not need to build anything beside characters.... it's not an RTS either...

It's just a piece of crap to me.

Anyway,i do believe TS want to cause trouble around here after the chaos in SC2 thread.

Nuff said.No point arguing with people like him.

Christ.. flame war again..

Games like simcity,rollecoster tycoons and etc are not RTS. They are given a new category which are call simulators game or god games.

back to topic

Dota cant be a RTS since RTS is managing more that one unit in the game.

Err dota is not exactly resources manging also. Since you cant control the flow of cash.

Dota is a action MMORPG to be precise.

Since the game intergrates leveling, abilties ,stats and PVP(player vs player) into 1 game. Minusing all the story telling and quest.

Nowadays genre are not more fixed to merely FPS,RTS, and MMORPG nowadays.

and 1 more thing.. ( dont believe 100% anything from Wikipedia, cos anyone can input those facts.)

This post has been edited by redeye84: Sep 3 2007, 11:17 AM

its not an mmorpg, cause the map is like 2mb of file.