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IP law is still not enforce here, well until we sign on the CPTPP.😶

This post has been edited by darth5zaft: Oct 4 2021, 02:37 PM

Lol.
Humour meter rosak already.


On serious note: maybe you should pay for Geopolitics & economic publication as well.

No one buy gunboats for the sake of gunboat nor because gunboat are cool. Nor are buying gunboat to defend against other nor attack one another. these day & age with SJWism run high & the existence of globalization. Most won't be going to do real state vs state war. No one wants to give others reason for sanction. Even china not going to do that. They are not going to even invade Taiwan.

Just look at how fucked up china are when they self imposed sanction on Australian coal. Australia baited them, CCP bite and now CCP run out of power. Their citizens are annoyed & they become the laughing stock of the world.

But People still buy gunboat. And gunboat are to do one thing and that's is gunboat diplomacy, and thus gunboat are an economic tools. And military are mostly for postering 1st. It's the stick you weild to get an upper hand in diplomacy. Because no one really want to go to war really. But it's there if it does indeed goes that's way

You need to understood what china want,what MY want,what US want, what are the jobs of military in the modern day that is the problem. China understand her self interest is not aligned with all her First chain island neighbors. So it's is all about using intimidation to enforce subjegation and we are resisting subjegation because it's not in our best economic interest. We are upper middle income like they are, going to them mean we would stay forever poor.


You however think that china are really going to invade us, so quick hide behind the hills and do gurella warfare, bend the knees be nice to them don't be too aggressive. Which is true but ONLY if china want to invade us. Which they don't. So Doing what you want is doing them a favor rather than deterrence. That's exactly what they wanted. Subjegation.

.

Depend on how much hornet they get i guess.

Original Cap55 called for 3 squadrons of LCA & 2 squadron of MRCA. DWF only say they interested in filling out the remaining 10 hornet.
AF usually wanted 18 jet per squadron.So around 54 LCA.

But If the AF do acquired all 28 hornet. Then there enough for 2 squadron. A good hint of thats is the recent AF chief interview where he stated the reactivation of former MIG squadron & acquisition of 18 LCA this RMK & 18 more LCA the next RMK. afterwards in RMK 14 they started the acquisition of MRCA .

If they did that. Then the likely outcome is 2 squadron of LCA & 3 squadrons of MRCA.

Of course the money to upgrade the hornet do need to comes out of somewhere. So the quality of LCA may also be reduced. The BVr requirements may not be a priority anymore.

IMHO

1)Scorpene are extremely expensive. And its build with french weapon in mind, retrofitted to fit weapon we want increase the cost further. French engineering is full of custom made part that make building & maintaining is extremely expensive without much in term of reliability. They are excellent designers but horrible engineers.

The likelihood that German, sweeden & Korean sailang french offering something cheaper while also promising local assembly is really high. The navy Chief said 2 submarine would be procure by 2030-2040. 2040 is when the Scorpene start retiring. They can order more afterwards. So commonalities with Scorpene isn't really needed. I like 6 but 4 is the more realistic number.



2) The LCS as it is is already expensive and would be terbengkalai until 2023, Since details design on the changes that TUDM want won't end until end of 2022. Doubt gomen going to order more. The navy wanted 6 because the other 3 ASW platforms is the MRSS itself.


3) type 31 are build with backwards compatibility to it's original vessels. so adding Absalon ASW equipment is possible without much cost of intergration i guess. Type 31 being design to operate with type 26 do make it a compelling buy to MY due to FPDA. A worthwhile replacement to the Kedah. Would love 6, but the most likely number is 3.


4) large UUV isn't really much a thing right now. We are not rich & competent enough to do R&D. If EU or US ever get one ready to use, why not,


5)OSV as in Ocean Station Vessel? If that according to CG is freaking expensive to run. More cost effective to run a mothership said them.

If it's offshores service vessels then like i said before. Jabatan laut has it.money are tight, why bothered owning it when you can just called jabatan laut? Money may be better utilize by buying thing they really need. They are short of ship to do their main tasks afterall



6) tanker depend entirely on hibah from Petronas. Infact I think even the MRTT would be a hibah from AirAsia x. They have some A330 that's nearing the end of it's feasibility as low cost passanger jet. Most of the time such jet are sold for cheap to freight companies. AirAsia in itself owed the gomen lots of debt on airport fee and taxes.




7) if i have to guess japan would get the MRSS contract. They want to export military equipment but at the same time it's illegal under their own constitution. MRSS is one of those ship that Japan can sell. RMN had request a MRSS for decades and only now did gov give a firm date of 2024. The only major difference between then & now is Jap entry into MRSS contest.

Japan also subsidies other countries purchase by giving really low interest rate well below that of inflation. I think Philippines get 0.1% rate with 10 year deferment for their OPV. Would be great if CG buy Japanese ship by loan though. I mean u get ship fast due to loan and it's subsidies by Japan. Because indirectly it safeguard supplies of 70% of their energy & food.

MRSS requirements in itself is really weird, it's seem like a halfway point of ASW carrier like Hyuga class and osumi class LPD. There's are ship like that but most are double the displacement that RMN can afford.

The japs do have a design that can fit RMN requirements.



https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/31145...g-marine-forces

Fit in the essm like the Hyuga and it's a competent kinda warship i guess.



8) your LMS in size are better suited for CG. CG would fight tooth & nail to get a monopoly of it. And high likelihood gov going to agree with them.



9) if helo is locally assemble doubt you get 12 per RMK. It would make more sense to drag it out production for as long as possible to maintain jobs & talent. Currently they rent of from LTAT. For gov it's just keluar poket kanan ,masuk poket kiri.

Like i said the American helo aren't going to be fully operational until 2040.Those FVL is 20 years away while Helo live span is 30 years old. really doubt american would allowed local assembly, its really technologically advanced than what the rest of the world have.

Let say if H160M is choosen. It's really not that bad.Like i said, it's the EU version of FVL and it's available soon & can be CKD, But it got full combat abilities ready and with composite body, can be made stealth too.

It's an incomplete X3 afterall.the longer you wait the more upgrade you get. The X3 with it speed & range make it a very ideal platforms for maritime warfare also for Petronas use. just that without the fly by wire complete, they can't install lift wing like bell fara nor forward propeller like Boeing FVL.



10) the likelihood of duplication of CG & RMN ship would not happen no matter how much both agency wrote it in their masterplan. Despite different ministry both operate under the national security council and senior minister of defense. If let say we need 18 large ship, and if RMN get 12, then CG can only get 6.



11) the gov already said they wanted to do economic of scale and harmonizing ship between CG & RMN. While RMN need to harmonize weapon with AF & TD. If you want type 31 for RMN, you get Absalon in it's support ship form for CG. if you get tun Fatimah for CG you get a sigma for RMN. If AF use Amraam, RMN has to use ESSM. That's what reducing the military footprint is all about. We could not go around and have setis in some ship, tacticos in some ship, mica in navy, amraam for AF, some sensor is manwha, some other from Thales. It's need to be standardized to safe cost, it's also need to use the same weapon as our main allies, you know to make procuring missiles easier in time of need.

This increase efficiency in staffing & competency of maintainece while buying us lots of deterrence due to limitless supply ammo shared from willing allies. It's also there to make TD job of networking share situational awareness things easier



12) reducing military footprint also mean if get hibah hornets, the LCA would likely be T7. When hornet retired, weapon, facilities & technicians would move to T7. The T7 would then replace the hornet while F35 is the additions in AF capabilities. T7 need to be able to at least in the future be the wingman for the F35.


The budget are there, there's no need to rewrite it. IF politicians don't interfere in ATM acquisition. Just look at gempita, it's cost twice as much as other 8x8. It's effect the acquisition timeline greatly as thing that supposed to be acquire last RMK, get push to this RMK, or they try to push hibah SPH to TD which would effect their maintenance budget. Or how the ghost of Kedah Hurts the lcS


Personally i think the current apple in gov eyes is the AF. So doubt navy budget going to go bigger going forward. While warship are scary, warplane are scarier. Missiles & submarine are scariest. So for navy to continue received huge funding, selling the idea of finding sub & shooting stuff from the sky is what they need.

Hbah hornet is a great quick fix for politicians going into election need. Just like how Aussie need to get rid of the unpopular french sub as they also headed into election.

Ordering LCA alone doesn't look right in most of our citizens eyes. It's not the kind of reply to a pencerobohan that they want. Ordering it together with Hornet however is a different ball game. But that kind of desperation likely mean US ain't going to give the hornet without ordering T7 or at the very least FA50. They wanted total control of a country avionics afterall. Which kinda explain ID decline the free radar and ordering rafales i suppose.


That's why I say m346 is what politikus would want. also reason why sinki & Jew get them. It's not a great jet in performance but it's allowed a wee bit of leeway in freedom of action. And that leeway is more than enough to satisfied China & Russia. They all kinda use derivatives of that jet. Buying everything american for AF would be intrepid by other as we moving into the US camp. And they are right to thinks so. What can a country do without their air superiority?

Our politikus won't get easy access to Beijing as before. you know how much money they stand to lose buying T7 or even FA50? The likelihood that china going to throw some temper tantrums is also quite high.

Sabarlah.

Kan tengah dalam details design phase until end of 2022.

Some equipment would then be removed & some would be add on.

So overall 2024- 2025 kot for the 1st ship to complete

This post has been edited by darth5zaft: Oct 5 2021, 01:53 PM

Ahh i wish we have one regardless of how useless it actually is.

What more when It's really within reach, just a flat top MRSS + squadron of F35B

Ismail Sabri bahek orenya
Dia tak suka tipu🤣😂

Biasalah amek designers Perancis. Kerja 4 hari seminggu, lunch break 3 jam tu Sbb 4% design makan 2 tahun.

Australia order submarine,lepas 5 tahun PON design tsk siap lagi🤣

Barang baik so kena tunggu lama sikit lah🤣😂

Nak lajut kena beli Express pass MCM kat Disneyland 😆


Kita bukan gagal.
Kita cuma belum berjaya 🤣

Not about the type 31.

But am wondering is the EC725 is locally assemble in ID or the customization is done in ID?

There's some news stating that after the assembly, it's is converted in ID?

What kind of conversion is it?

I see UMW had gone beyond composite and are making turbine casing as well.

I say that AF purchase tradeoff with us being components manufacturer really pays off.

Different country different needs.

They are going for self sufficiency similar to Korea & turkey while we are going to embedded ourselves deeper in the global supplies chain.

Nah. Won't be cheap anymore if we get it🤣

ID had a long history of getting equipment as it is off the shelf.
MY had a long proud history of gold plating everything.

What you think the likelihood of
1)MY get the type 31 as it is like ID & pay RM1.5 bil a ship
2) MY get type 31 then try to make it a MRCV mothership with UUV, UAV & USV on top of adding Absalon ASW equipment?

You mean like we did proton? Hahahaha.

To be fair, if Mahathir was nicer to the west and get us a preferential access to rich western market then maybe proton could be at least quarter as successful as Kia. Unfortunately he just go full on erdagon instead.

No lah, not for whole economy just in term of defense, we accept manufacturing contract as tradeoff for weapon purchase while ID is more interested in buying weapon making knowhow with their purchased.

If not mistaken, France offer local assembly of rafales to us before. Which probably explains why ID are interested in KFX & Rafale despite it being twice the price of an American jet.

Overtime they would acquired IP for last gen weapon like Korea acquisition of KFX(which basically a nice looking super hornet), M11a1, 30mm dual aircraft gun, reverse engineered the s400 and so on.

It's not shit. It's them being force to do stuff by politicians things they didn't want to do. The moment said politicians are out of sight they reverted back, then another politicians force them back.

Like you already give an example for in aerospace industry. Self sufficiency create mediocrity. Not to mention having something like deftech & BNS for the military is
1) a total waste of their money, gempita is double the cost of other IFV
2) really detrimental towards national security. Having self sufficiency create a situation where politicians think it's ok to ditch MY traditional security providers, have a very independent foreign policy like sucking up to DaGe.

SG is very successful because they draw up their minister from the civil service. There's no such thing as political interference in SG planning, policy & acquisition. There's no such thing as politicians in SG just birokrat.

Self sufficiency does create a mediocrity situation.

Look at SK. Their KFX & surion is basically a rebadged of stuff from the 70s being procure at way higher cost than this gen stuff like F35 & EC725.

TOT to acquired final assembly tech comes at the cost of far more profitable components contract trade off. Which lead to a situation where MY aerospace industry is 1000% higher than ID.


Well for every $1 of Chinese export to US. $0.60 is components made in US send to china to do a final assembly point. Then resend back to US

China can banggalah make end product like Xiaomi or geely. But Chinese profit margin are tiny . US being the manufacturer of components & IP owner get high profit margin instead.

Major MY defense contractors are failing because they fail to provide value to our military other than sucking them dry and charge high price for a mediocre product.

TNI acquisition of EC725 is really interesting. Rather then stupidly build a custom heli plant for low yield production that increase the cost substantially. Just build the components domestically & send it to be assembled in France.

It was the rakyat own fault really.

Keep voting the same guy into office, for sure that what they would do.

Unfortunately, you are getting our priorities wrong in our shipyards strategy.

We are not far off place like china or Korea that need to work hard to survive. They either build ship or they won't be in the maritime sector at all.We live in the middle of trade routes. Most shipyards in MY, Batam & SG specialized in refit, refurbishment & renovations because that's where the money is. PT PAL is far enough away from major trading route that buildings ship is the only way for them to ensure their survival.


Look at RSN acquisition, they are not really learning to design ship from scratch. They want to learn how to retrofitted. The LMV is basically a heavily modified Visby, the JMMV look like a flat top Damen enforcer while their MRCV look like a modification of their current LPD

ST engineering unlike deftech & BNS are not a dick that suck their military dry. They do provide value added service to RSN. The LMV is somewhere in the middle between Visby & arafura. It's give RSN an advantage compared to other off the shelf ship. Does a slightly bigger gowind but weapon are similar & custom weapon on pars give ATM any advantage? Nope! It's just money down the drain.

While BNS is pulling, i want to learn this, this & this and i can build this ,this & this for you. Now give me money RMN then buy my piece of shit that you don't want. ST engineering learn this or that to advance their commercial ship building while BNS doesn't really have any kinds of commercial customers.

I don't get it?..

Is he's talking about creating domestic military industrial complex or to seek timbang balas from foreign purchase?