They all fighting for a limited resources afterall.

We are not Sinki where an agency got a monopoly of a single responsibility. Over here Multiple agencies can do similar thing. RAC,Prasarana,MRT corps, Penang gov & IRDA all are building rapid transit line.

The agency that can convince the gov why they should get the job, get the jobs. So you know, so the guy with the Best plan win. Horrible agency get their agency dismantle and absorbed to other agencies.

So considering the similar number of 18 OPV & 18 FAC they both comes up with. I guess they go wrote a full document on how they should monopolize all jobs and then let gov decide which agency do what.



They already explicitly said for forward deployment beyond the tanah air.
Why do Swedish solution when ATM wants to pull an Aussie?

If you want to operate independently then don't join any alliances.



Yeah, some equipment here don't even get through to the age of 30.
Use it too long and it keep falling off the sky like Nuri. We aren't very good at maintenance afterall.

As it is the plans for new helicopter is on the next RMK. ATM want spanking new helo while gov want to CKD those helo,Infact there's a high probability that even the LCA would get assemble here. The US unlike B4 are more welcoming to the idea of distributed manufacturing & maintenance in preparation for their cold war while we want to realized those aeroangkasa industry whatever they got in plan for RMK12.

Infact how they going to acquired those 6 MPA over a period of 15 years do sounds like the conversion would be done locally.

Yeah i mention H160 because it's not the best tools for everything but good enough general purpose tools to be use by all internal security & defense agency thus allowing you an economic of scale. The Blackhawks size is a wee bit too big for the CG,navy, police & bomba.

Maybe the air force can get away by arguing in battlefield search & rescue, the less heli the better. Guess the navy also lucky by arguing that h160 ASW is not a thing yet and thus they get to buy the heli they wanted.

H160 is the bridge between last gen helo like dauphin & next gen like the x3/FVL. Once they sell enough and get the R&D money they need, it would be further develop into the x3 or at the very least get the fly by wire just enough to put those tiny wing like bell fera design. Again if they truly CKD this thing it would come in batches over decades rather than 1 big time purchase.




That's asymmetrical warfare going too far. sending our police who neglected their job as a police to fight an army that's pretend to be a Police while sending our army to do police jobs.



Go to MOF and argue why 12 special purpose frigate is needed but it wouldn't do any peacetime patrol but instead we going to order 18 more OPV that's jobs to do peacetime patrol but no wartime utility. I guranteed you the first question is why not go buy the frigates only and do peacetime patrol with it

Remember the lcS is also known as 2GPV.



Then whose going to fight the penyeludup, pirate & economic migrants? Using navy to go into hot pursuit into our neighbors territories aren't really well received by their public and them doing so here won't be well received as well.

Penyeludup, pirate & migrants are more of a concern then Chinese CG because these people create a loss of economic opportunity to our country.




They already said it 2 years ago and I had repeat so many time already.
NGPV IS A WARSHIP NOT A GUNBOAT.

overshadowing Chinese submarine with multi billion ship may not be very bright as they can shoot those ship. Just get a very competent MALE & MPA aim you weapon from the air if you found them like the Japs had done is better solution. If they stay submerged then you can intrepid it as hostile intent and not just innocent passages.

MMEA meanwhile can get plenty of smallish boat if they don't blow their money on big ship. Their whole argument on their mothership is cost saving compared to a floating sea base. They probably wanted a MRCV just without the missiles. A floating base on which they launch boat & unmanned vehicle.


Only the Chinese would take the opportunity to see it that way. For the rest of the world Chinese coast guard & their maritime militia is a military organization.

The navy aiding the CG due to lack of resources is a convinience excuse even employed by Japan. You really think jaoan has not enough resources to build as much CG ship as they wanted?

The Chinese meanwhile are using white hulls & maritime militia as asymmetrical tools again the US & geng & We should be smart enough not to fall for those tricks. They afterall have huge capabilities to churn out ship beyond what we capable off. Didn't sun Tzu Said something about not playing into the enemies strength or something? That's exactly what you would get yourself into if you try to match the Chinese with numbers.

What we need is to play into our strength instead. and that is credible A2/AD capabilities and make the sea is swirming with foreign navies so they won't provoke an incidents in the first place. How many times has USN chase out Chinese coast guard out of our water again? infact it just easier to ask for their help in this case, we look innocent, the Chinese got their devil to warns their citizens about and US can play the hero world police. Everyone can go back home happy.

Seriously, how many more time do I need to repost this?

I even highlights it in the previous post.



also when I say it's an opinion, i fully wrote it there as an opinion.
If someone read it wrongly and after giving proof that I say it's an opinion but he still insist I'm putting words in other people mouth, there's nothing I can do. Just like how someone read the white paper see the NGPC is a warship but then for the next 2 years pretend not to see it and keep on insisting it's an OPV.

This post has been edited by darth5zaft: Sep 30 2021, 08:12 PM

Read better and get triggered less would do you a lot of good.

If people couldn't even read something that has been highlighted is not my fault. That person should read before kecam not baca tajuk terus kecam.

This post has been edited by darth5zaft: Sep 30 2021, 08:14 PM

Now I'm not sure whether you are playing with nuance to win internet argument or just suck at understanding your own national language.

Sure sure, whatever floats your gunboat lah. All general Bodo Bodo punya. That's why they buy gunboats.

Oh wait. Where the official source that NGPC a gunboats again? As someone wisely said to me few minutes ago. If you have opinions, own up to them. Nothing wrong to have opinions. Don't say that it is in the defence white paper .🤣😂😆😊

You see. At this moment I can either be a man and accept your explanation as it is because who care, it's an internet forum.

or I can be a literal dick who would keep on insisting for 2 or 3 or more Post (i think that certain someone do it for 8 or 10 post ) that what's you are claiming your opinion is you putting your own words as an official position. Then say everyone else can see what you wrote and you should be ashamed of yourself

Quick Guess which action would i took?

This post has been edited by darth5zaft: Sep 30 2021, 09:02 PM

Simple.

Pull all military man behind the territorial water and send in the coast guard to the Chinese.

Is NOT something he would likely says 🤣

A short summary of above statement is.

"Let give china our EEZ"

No you can't.

You would never build enough CG ship fast enough or big enough to challenge the Chinese CG & maritime militia to a water canon & ship ramming fight. You re playing a game where Chinese get the upper hand.
That's is exactly what Philippines did before and they lose Access to plenty of reefs. Which is now being use to threaten the Philippines on a daily basis.

China is a super power but they are alone just like USSR of old. The whole point of NATO is to standardized equipment & strategies so smaller army can work together to defense against a larger foe. That's why most of their military look like a cookie cutter of one another which is what DWF suggest but you don't like it, preferring to be creative, asymmetrical or whatever that's limited your ability to not just work with western powers but also your own neighbors.

When you work with neighbors & friend, you do not need to acquired everything under the sun on day 1, but you don't wanna it, saying something about having sovereignty of equipment or something. Working with neighbors & other mean you have to be committed to at least acquired the equipment to help them and they aquire equipment that can help us. You meanwhile Don't want to do any of that, prefer to work alone thus you retreat behind Territorial water an area the Chinese never claimed. You can't help others, others won't help you. Exactly what the Chinese hope & wanted.

The whole let buy low quality in high quantities equipment is also playing into the advantage of Chinese. You have access to technological advantage but you throw it out the door and reach technology parities with the Chinese who at the same time has the numbers. Again you are not winning anything with this strategy.

So who actually is delusional? The DWP author or you?

Not at the expenses of their navy like you suggested.

Again per DFW.
3GPV is a kapal perang & 2LMS has at the very least FFBNW.

One do not keep harping over the original plans when they have updated their plans.

Would be great if we know what CG plans are. I been googling their masterplan but nothing comes up that's available in the public domain.

you still harping over the original plan & BNS wet dream again
As per H20, they plans are 8 2LMS & 6 3GPV in the next 2 RMK.
It's easy to conclude that reduction in numbers of ship = increase the price per ship.



The Chinese aren't going to send their warship over if we have competent A2/AD just like western power don't sail along the Taiwan straits anymore.HMS repulse & POW sunk as the empire of Japan get a foothold in Indochina. It just there to show the flag, they all know it's toothless again full japanese aggression. Jaoanese occuption of indo china Allowing them to establish supplies lines that sinks those ship and the then the invasion of Malaya then afterwards the invasion of ID.

That's is why most country in silence agreed to US containment of china strategies. They do not want further southern expansion of PLA. You really think in an event of something happening, ID are going to wait beging territorial water and aren't going to forward deploy their FREMM & type 31 to prevent the war ever happens in their back yard?

MY alone would never be able to counter china. But MY work together with her neighbor backed by western powers would. Exactly what DWP want to do. MY can't do anything to Chinese long range missiles but western & japanese aegis destroyer could, MY can't treaten china directly but refueling and escorting US bombers would. MY is not a nuclear power like china but F35 are certified to carry someone's else nuclear bomb

Your strategies of everyone falls back behind Territorial water, priorities quantity over quality, priorities CG over navy, everyone don't cooperate and do their own shit, everyone wait in their territorial water waiting their turn to fight the Chinese one by one is the wettest wet dream the Chinese could ever hope for. Pecah & perintah at it finest. Instead what you want to do is to do the opposite of what they wanted. write a strategy that involves working with your neighbor & outsiders.

Vietnam is different. At the end of the day they are a communist dictatorialship country where they can't really count on western support, they also share a land borders with china and the Chinese had times & times again invade them. so it's logical for them to pull a sweeden. To acquired the asymmetrical ability to defend themselves by themselves but as the same time can work with others. If war ever started, it would start at Vietnam. China can't go straight away invade MY. If they did other people would cut their supplies line and the campaign is cut short.

If china want to invade us, then ID is next. So it's quite logical to you know. Fight a war in someone's else land. Rather than let them falls and wait for our turn then surrender when we are occupied and just let ID fight alone afterwards. So what we want is just a stereo typical cookie cutter highly deployable NATO Styles army that can do both offensive & defensive. Go forward to help Vietnam or go backwards to help ID.

ID likely would modernize their navy for forward deployment, but will keep a traditional Soviet asymmetrical TD because everyone know what the Chinese really after is Malacca, Sunda,Lombok & Makassar straits.

All we want is for the Chinese to look at all the layers and be discouraged by it. Not to go start a shooting contest.

That's a snippet of their plan summarize by reporters one can get from news report. Not the PDF version of their full plans itself.

I think we both can agree that RMN & CG plan are competing with one another and aren't really suplimenting one another. There nothing much of what CG roles is in National defense in the DWP. With the navy operating in the EEZ & beyond there's a glaring hole in the territorial water defense. We can only speculate that CG would fill in the shoe of a Brown water navy but there's no official statement.

If by news report then they going to get 3 mothership this RMK which sounds a lot like a missiless singkie MRCV able to carry 6 FIC and all kinds of drones.Then another 5 OPV & 8 NGPC. No words if the overall near term 14 NGPC is there to replace current RMN 14 FAC. Beyond boats they still short in the coastal radar, MSA & helo. Would be great if they given us the times line for acquisition

They can buy us a whole lot of deterrence if all 20 OPV, 96 FAC size craft & all 228 small boat are choosen & fitted correctly even if all it got are guns. Get a cb90 for their small boat for example.

Choosing the correct gun can makes all the difference. As you point out Their current gun are meh. mostly good enough for CIWS but not good enough for anything else. If missiles are flying then plenty of AAW Capable gun are a good thing to have. Then there's human capital development, if they wanted to play for defense they need regular training with ATM, other CG & navies as well.

Guess if they wanted to standardized around this missiles then a Rafale makes senses. US might not be so open minded about it.

Interesting.
It seem earlier report that Kuwaiti super hornet being delayed to 2025 isn't true at all.



https://www.janes.com/defence-news/news-det...ries-for-kuwait

According to this guy, Tunisian had back down on the Kuwaiti hornet acquisition few days before. Is it true?



This post has been edited by darth5zaft: Oct 2 2021, 06:09 PM

Everyone know that Chinese coast guard & their maritime militia are them doing their small stick diplomacy. They are not capable of projecting power yet but they wanted to do it now and so they send out lightly arms ship for low intensity conflicts for now.Make no mistake, once those navy ship are complete it would replace those CG & maritime militia for a proper power projection.

Using all our money to fund CG to fight their CG are just a anjing mengejar bayang bayang. We would never able to match them in numbers and as we do that, their actual navy would show up. Their CG are just a distraction. Why blow money chase a distraction while ignoring the big bad wolf over the horizons? Winter are coming so to speak, you care too much about the zombie horde but not the night king himself.

CG should acquired enough vessel to do their enforcement job first then think of how those vessel can contribute to national defense. Not go around building ship for the sole purpose of babysitting them Chinese. Those ship are useless once their navy comes.

Everyone know we don't have enough money. Why do you think US gifts us those radar in the first place? Play out card right and we could get patriot that they pull out of Saudi place here. Nothing wrong enlisting Jap & US aegis destroyer to pusing pusing around here. Again you are playing all by myself something that grant Chinese the advantage.

And you really expect your idea of cooperation in which you expect other to fight the Chinese on your behalf for your own EEZ while you wait by the shore line going to work? Which idiots going to do that?

And also acquiring nuclear delivery platforms like Sinki just did with f35A & escorting foreign operators who carry nuclear bomb like we did few days ago is NOT aqusition of nuclear weapons nor despite both being public knowledge not like any of our ZOFAN neighbors bangkang it.

Ps. I also noticed someone with the same name as you get pissed off at possible legacy hornet acquisition in another media platforms. What's wrong with getting 10 to 28 jet as interim solution until we can get F35?

Why exactly do you keep going back to strategies that always give them Chinese the upper hands again & again? After being told it's would play on Chinese strength and you are at a disadvantage, you keep insisting we do it again and again. Isn't all the asymmetrical warfare you like about is all about exploiting adversery weakness & avoiding their strength. And yet you are doing the complete opposite of playing into their strength, discarding your advantage nor take advantage of their weakness?



Again you go back to the original 1525 As usual.

How exactly is the Chinese LMS going to be renovated to fullfil all the requirements of LMS outline in the DWP? You yourself said it's impossible to install minesweeper in the CLMS. Why thrown away all the supposed contenders of 2LMS RFI? Why would people offered >1000 tons ship id what they wanted is a 700 tons ship. Why ignore all reports that 2LMS would cost RM500 mil? Why ignore the fact DWP called NGPC a kapal perang. Why ignore DWP calling 2LMS can be FFBNW weapon?

Why you always go Back to the original 1525 even after the DWP,RFI & so on? Seem you currently just pusing pusing to OG 1525 and ignore everything afterwards just to justified your own confirmation biases that RMN general are idiots for ordering gunboat even after the DWP mention it's not going to be a gunboats.

They are not ordering anymore gunboat. Just move on already.


This is the OG 1525


Fact.
* Navy usually has a fixed RM 7 billions ish budget every RMK
* There's no LMS for 2031-2040 period as you claim
* 8 LMS for 2026 - 2030 have all but disappear as per H20 statement.


If more LMS & NGPV going to be order beyond the current 2 RMK then it would be build using funding from those period. How exactly money from this RMK going to pay for ship 10 -20 years in the future?

At best you could only say the money from RMK14 going to supliment RMK13 acquisition of 6 3GPV. or they going to order 5 more NGPV in RMK14.


Anyway you the one who scared shit of Chinese missiles & complain about relative weakness of CG current gun. What wrong with getting plenty of big guns that can be put offshores to shoot stuff down from the air. protecting bases & escorting vessel is basically what USCG do when they join overseas war campaign.

Facts.
*There's no NGPC going to be ordered by RMK12
*.NGPC as per latest DWP is a warship not a gunboat.
*There's no price given for NGPV price, not even a reporter speculation, all he got is the numbers from BNS wetdream of selling gunboat for rm500 mil a pop.


Please write opinion as an opinion, because as someone said, please write opinions as opinion, because there's nothing wrong with having an opinion but please state it's an opinion 🤣

And your prudent planning is buying more gunboats? How is gunboats better than RMN actually plan for RMK12

Kapal Misi Pesisir (Littoral Mission Ship, LMS) yang boleh menjalankan pelbagai misi termasuk SAR dan HADR, antikeganasan dan antipelanunan, pengumpulan risikan dan peninjauan, hidrografi dan antiperiuk api. LMS adalah reka bentuk modular dan boleh dilengkapi dengan senjata dan sistem tambahan untuk memenuhi keperluan operasi masa hadapan


And more Scorpene, the subs who aquatic signature documents had been leaked in full glory?

It's really weird for bean counter like yourself to recommend Scorpene when German & it's Korean derivatives are half the price. Or the fact Scorpene has been leak is the reason you want it?

Scorpene are due to retirement under the OG 1525 during 2030s. After 20 years of service. Even if it didn't, at most you can only squeeze out 10 more years out of it . There's no point buying it for the sake of commonalities. There's no saving whatsoever. Surely you know that already.

Still pusing pusing lagi? DWP called 3GPV a kapal perang and put it in the same categories as LCS. You failure to understood your own national language is not my fault. You deny what terang terang written in DWP to satisfied your own cognitive biases that ATM is stupid is also not my fault.

Slander? U basically write there let's go buy Korean OPV.

Why you so special kah? I need to convince you so far that RMN is not bunch of retards. You want to believe and thus twisted everything to justified your own biases that RMN is retard is not my problem.

You could do the simple math yourself.
RMK12
At least 7 billion to Complete the 6 LCS + 8 2LMS

RMK13
At least 7 billions to build 2 MRSS + 6 3GPV.


So far it's doesn't matter to you how DWP describe the 2lms nor the DWP called 3GPV a kapal perang. You keep coming back to its being a gunboat and go on a full rant on how stupid RMN is. Then you keep on claiming your gunboat is in the DWP. Then you go on a pusing of how budget from RMK12 going to pay for boat in RMK14. Seriously how far down the retard hole do you want to dig yourself into?

Anyway you want to continue your cognitive biases that RMN is bunch of retard you punya suka lah. Am not in RMN anyway. And please continue writing your fantasy acquisition of useless stuff that results in china winning every single time then called ATM stupid whenever they acquired useful stuff which make china winning harder.




This post has been edited by darth5zaft: Oct 3 2021, 06:45 AM

1% ish of GDP,
Our GDP is $337 billion

Historical value of military spending per GDP

2020 1.14 10.00 %
2019 1.03 7.53 %
2018 0.96 -12.74 %
2017 1.10 -20.48 %
2016 1.38 -7.95 %
2015 1.50 4.82 %
2014 1.43 -4.31 %
2013 1.50 6.08 %
2012 1.41 -8.98 %
2011 1.55 4.20 %
2010 1.49 -20.37 %
2009 1.87


https://www.google.com/amp/knoema.com/atlas...-GDP%3fmode=amp

If not mistaken we would spend 1.5% of GDP next year.

ID usually spend 0.7% of GDP & SG spend 3% of GDP thus their defense budget is 300% of us. If everything goes to plan. We Would be a $500 billions economy by 2026. Trillion dollar economy by 2030.


https://www.thestar.com.my/business/busines...rillion-by-2030


As for ID, Their army is quite immovable and thus kinda high personel count. That's why despite paying the same $$$ as SG annually, their equipment is a whole lot less than SG.

So that's $9 billion is not the reason they can afford those shiny new stuff.If not mistaken ID plans to acquired most of those shiny new things through debt. And those debt would only happened if Probowo won next presidential election. Thought unlike us they with high growth potential and relatively low debt can afford debt. We couldn't.

Another thing to consider is not just about how much money we have but also why we spend the money in the first place.

By 2030s, ID GDP would be around $3.7 trillion & would also be the 5th largest economy in the world San 2050s. Thus explain their regional power ambitious. Basically it's all about TOT for now. Anyone willing to sell the secret to built a full weapon get the jobs. If china sells them the secret the would buy Chinese missiles. Thought the irony is the Chinese sell missiles tech to ID who intent to shoot those missiles back at the Chinese.

What they want Building the foundation for their eventual place of abang besar in these neck of the woods.


Sinki Mostly use defense purchase to upgrade their human resources competency. Too much tech cramps in their ship & APC with big fat multifinger touchscreen without fallback button. that may or may not work outside of peacetime operation. Thought they won't take any kind of risk for their AF. Just like sweeden don't take risk for the army since it's the backbone of their defense strategy. They both would experiments with the other 2 sister service to advance industrial interest at cost of defense.

As for us, the backbone for our security used to be TD. the gov spare no expenses nor play around much with TD acquisition. we really f*** u* the AF & navy acquisition back then. But as threats perception change & AF & navy being the Frontliner, we kinda stumbled far too often trying to strengthen them too.

officially what we want is to be part of the international supply chain,(thought outside the strategy papers & airplane parts, nothing so far indicate that what we actually doing) If not mistaken from now on new military purchase would require 40% local components

Good news is as we want to enter the global supplies chain for military industrial complex, US want to decentralized production, supplies chain & maintenance facilities to facilitate the eventual cold war they have in mind. Aussie & Canada really industrialized hard during the decentralization phase during the world & cold war, making planes,jet & ship. Aussie lost most of it as US centralized back but Canada do acquired & retain some competency like building plane & trains.

US is also the source of high value added FDI, and preferential access to their market is what we desire most to solve our middle income trap crisis.

US is giving us what they had offered EU, Japan, Taiwan & Korea before. not just protection but also wealth. It's basically the recreation of the old Brits empirical trading block. Just like how Aussie, kiwis, indian, ceylonese fight for defense of Malaya back then. We too now need to fight for other if we wanted to join the blocks. The block that guranteed us wealth. And the need to fight with others for others is what dictated our acquisition strategy.

This post has been edited by darth5zaft: Oct 4 2021, 12:14 AM

Punya suka lah bero.

Sendiri fail bahasa melayu tapi mengaku paham payah.

Bosan

Bagi lah links.

Mana best baca tersekat sekat.😂



Anyway isu kerajaan Melaka sudah runtuh lebih penting.


Oh technically it's kinda a replacement, . They so not going to get the 3rd batch of LCA now.

This post has been edited by darth5zaft: Oct 4 2021, 02:09 PM