Depends i guess

If you consider 30mm mk44 bushmaster as some kind of CIWS then they do have one.

This post has been edited by darth5zaft: Oct 11 2021, 11:36 AM

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Let just forget about TB2.
Our primary security concerns is borders protection & to buy some deterrence from a freaking super power who do low intensity conflicts.


We are not really trying to hunt down tanks nor non state actors nor s400 battery. What we want to do is mostly Hunt down pati & increase the accuracy of firepower to blow away invading ship.

https://mymilitarytimes.com/index.php/2021/...shammuddin/amp/

Drone no matter how expensive are just a dumb flying camera.and funny enough we do the world best drone base remote sensing companies.

https://vulcanpost.com/763444/aerodyne-mala...providers-2021/

What we wanted is just to use off the shelf cheap drone to be automated and run by AI & algorithm to go round the border and allert operators if they sense something suspicious and has quick response team in the ground & sea to combat it. Next is to simulate those PATI landing as invasion and thus write AI to calculate and redirect the firepower from such landing.

Afterwards is to write the AI to hunt down insurgence in jungle, estate by training it to hunt down pochers finally write AI to use those drone for increase situational awareness in raids.

As for deterrence against a freaking super power. Well that's just way above our pay grades. just go buy something out there off the shelf with a good industrial tradeoff & strengthen military alliance. If they going to land they are not going to be deterred by a TB2.





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This post has been edited by darth5zaft: Oct 12 2021, 03:16 AM

TB2 is a close air support vehicle
It's is big and thus relatively expensive due to a need to carry bomb.
What we need is surveilant drone to cari pati & submarine.
So too big of a surveilant drone to small of a sub hunters drone.
U buy a squadron of TB2 also useless because it's not what it design to do.

If people do invade MY they would come by sea not a parade of tanks,s400,ifv etc etc. TB2 don't carry bomb big enough to sink LPD size ship. Not to mention the landing party is technologically competent, TB2 good enough to bomb the Armenian but useless against the Russian in Syria. We also not flying in contested airspace thus TB2 which cost more than a helo is not exactly the best buy either
https://internationalaviationhq.com/2020/09...st-helicopters/

TB2 is more of something Philippines should buy to bomb Abu Sayyaf Rather then us.

So what u want is 2 type of drone, 1 is technologically superior, another just commercial off the shelf cheap drone which we wrote the AI for surveilant purposes.



A Corvette or in RMN case a MCM + Corvette is something common these days







https://www.navyrecognition.com/index.php/f...ure-vessel.html

No one going to do the good old day of buying plenty of small ship then put themselves in harm way to detonate mines rather than get a big ship full of drones.

Isn't that what you always wanted?

A sovereign self design self invent weapon systems
If you want that then Just go throw the money at aerodyne

https://vulcanpost.com/763444/aerodyne-mala...providers-2021/

Go ask them wherever it's possible to wrote an AI to limit the amount of human operators and run automatically and only allert if something suspicious happened on something cheap like the fullmar.


TB2 are not technological superior at all.
It's just a normal drone operated remotely by human not an AI drone.
You ain't going to do a swarmed attack with it nor it's resistance towards jammers. Good enough to hunt down technological inferior insurgent or Armenian. You ain't going to fight Russian backed group with it nor ain't going to be a loyal wingman. Doesn't really help us find PATI nor help us fight Chinese. What do you propose we bought it for?

Why bothered reinventing the wheel?
Reinventing the wheel in order to safe money doesn't always turn out good. Just look at the F35 program. It's main objective is to safe money but the end result is anything but.

Damen,DCNS, Saab all has a proven MCM mothership design. MCMV nowdays are around 1000 -3000 tons The UUV drone are design to be small enough to carry on rigid inflatable boat to FIC size while the mothership need to be big enough to carry everything as well as a deck for VTOL UAV. If anything probably sinki LMV is too small as it's can't carry the FIC size USV on board which is probably why the dutch go for a 3000 tons design

Again steel are cheap, equipment are not. The MCM equipment are going to cost the same no matter what size vessel. But splitting the equipment up into multiple vessel has the drawback of duplicate the radars, captain & crew as well as CMS & navigation. Might as well use the personel to run the drone to increase the number of drone deployed and increase sweeping speed.

Since the ship are already big, some take advantage and just put missiles on it, (1 ship with missiles is alot better than 10 gunboat isn't it?) most take advantage and put an actual helipad rather than just for VTOL UAV to facilitate personel transfer & resuppliers allowing it to be at sea longer (when you so far out at sea spending 2 hours to go back to base then 2 hours more to be back where you are is a waste of time & Money) & it's big enough to act as a patrol boat for the sea lines of communication as well. Coastal domestic security is CG concerned not the navy, thus why the last last navy chief want to get out of FAC bussiness.

So i don't really see what the the problem about. It's a typical cookie cutter thus safe approach. OF course it's still far away, with just A RFI for now, and tender by 2022, which mean actually construction won't start at least until 2024/5 & actually delivery by 2030s. The 8 Corvette was in the wish list from 2015. It's take at least 5 years of pre studies to set a criteria with multiple yards then tender then award, then details design for another 5 years before a 5 years period of construction.

MRSS preplanning had started few years back & contract by 2024 mean construction only start by 2029/30, which is the same time frame as JMMV. Probably cheaper to just work with them then to do it alone. Again steel are cheap, equipment are not. Just skim down on the equipment if we can't afford it. 3GPV don't even get an approval for even a preplanning. If they approved today, tenders won't be out before 2027 & actually construction by 2032/3. But since nothing guess it's only would start construction by 2035 & delivery by 2040.

So if anything this MCM + Corvette is the replacement for all 8 of RMN current surface combatants & the Kedah would be with us for another 20-25 years.

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Great plans if you what you have a Lego set and every equipment run windows & connect with USB C with plug & play. Then run McFee antivirus software to keep the Chinese out


Take note that

1)putting the Ceaser gun on a new truck double the price up.

2) f35 overall software cost $10 bil & block 4 upgraded software cost $1.3 billion.

3) Saab global eyes with is basically moving errie eyes equipment + off the shelf MPA equipment into a new jet body cost $1 billion each to UAE, 300 to 400% more then a wedgetail for RAF.

You can only plug & play if someone else had pay the intergration cost like ESSM + gowind, AESA + hornet, 737 + aew antenna, atr72 + mpa equipment.

What you can't do is add $100 mil for aew radar + existing A320 = $100 mil A320 AEWC. What you can do is add $100 mil to existing 737 + $50 mil upgrade cost or get an existing A330 & pay $50 mil to get A330 MRTT. If it's that simple RAF would not buy wedgetail nor German would buy the Poseidon since they are shareholders of airbuses ain't they? If they do they can expect to pay $1 billion each like the UAE did with global eyes.

Similarly, can't just add $2 mil AESA radar + $30 mil FA/50 = $32 mil AESA capable FA/50. If it's that simple Ph won't be looking at F16 & Gripen C rather than pay for software upgraded on the FA/50 won't they? Saab is offering Gripen c to pH at $60 mil a pop btw.
https://www.pna.gov.ph/articles/1153692

As for the LCA, RMAF has a budget of about $1.7 billion to buy 36 LCA. Thus the budget for a BVR capable LCA is around $50 mil a pop.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nst.com.my...cquire-lca-jets

It's mean the software upgrade cost for FA-50 amount to $720 mil to $1 billions. (Off course LM did promise to upgrade the F35 software for $712 mil though it's now cost more than $1.3 billion)

https://thehill.com/policy/defense/549490-f...million-overrun

not to mention the risk of delayed like the 6 years delay for our new varient of little bird.

So again. Your gravely miscalculated on the complexity & cost also the risk of delayed of weapon intergration and thus come with a misleading conclusion that ATM general is not bright.


How is paying $1.7 billion ($700 mil is R&D for software development) for upgraded FA50, to achieve the whole BVR capable LCA who also a LIFt that can do interceptors program better then Just get a normal LIFT then $300 mil to retrofitted 2 existing 737 into a wedgetail then spend the rest upgrading Kuwaiti hornet or instead of wedgetail buy some amraam for NASAMs & $100 mil for ground radar.

Just wait for someone else desperate enough to pay the intergration cost of AESA into a lift like turkeministan paid for the M346FA. Or just get M346FA and forget about it ever being an interceptors. It's pretty much risk free solutions.

Let me repeat.

*Chech republic do pay twice the price of Denmark for the Ceaser.
*UAE do pay twice for global eyes then RAF pays for wedgetail

Like i said, real equipment aren't Lego set that you can just plug & play.

Your post on how global eyes cost half by the third order proof that. You only comes to a conclusion that you can plug & play because you never bother that they did infact pays more for global eyes compared to wedgetail on the initial order.

It's pretty much proof the first idiot who commission an intergration pays for the cost of intergration & people afterwards just pays for the equipment.

If ATM by your claim don't have money how is it commissioning new weapons & pays for intergration help them do that? If anything they shouldn't go around commissioning new things.

If ambik Lego block & cantum are cheaper then just buying complete thing. Why do you think army around the world doesn't do it already? You really think you the only.smart.alex that had figured those out?😂

Imiginasi is great and all but do base it on reality if you want to compared to real world stuff. As it is you are bitter at reality because you compared it to fantasy that weapon are Lego blocks.

Seem to me you the one don't understand how tenders works
Tenders are they to acquired equipment to fullfil a certain requirements.

Requirements are platforms agnostic. Platforms be it LCA,MRCA,single engine nor double engine doesn't matter as long a platform can do it's stated requirements. A dual engine doesnt guranteed higher speed or longer range, m346 are slow & f35 has similar range to legacy hornet. M346 despite 'light' have AESA radar better than some MRCA out there

So NO, a tender is not out there because of 'platforms' The tender are out to fulfill a requirement. Afterall Gripen C in itself a LCA with a good radar. Doesn't really stop them from competing in our last MRCA tenders.



Pinoy only have $400 mil to spend.
That's why they say the can only afford 2 F16 or 6 Gripen C.
Obviously the budget are enough to buy 12 FA-50.

So it very likely the whole budget are there for another batch of FA50 but They are the one that rules FA50 out be it due to politics (the pro US AFP want to jilat US, while wumao Duterte. Don't Want it) or technical limitations of FA50 making it unable to do what they wanted out of a platform. Obviously they are free to remove some requirements and get 12 FA-50. Or add more money to it & get a Gripen or f16.

If for example the FA50 still cannot do BVR & maritime strike & bvr & maritime strike is what they wanted out of a platform to have a capabilities to pew pew Chinese plane & Chinese ship then they are buying 12 useless turkey. One can also summarize the whole MRCA tender are just them trying to force the Korean hand on offering a better deal an upgraded FA50 at the same price as before or american for some loan.

So obviously this tender are just a political ploy. It's highly unrealistic, they wanted 12 MRCA capable jet at the cost of 12 LCA. it's just there to push other people hand, afterall A tender can always be cancelled & new tender issues. Similarly RMAF had gone from MRCA tender to LCA tender to LCA tender + Direct nego MRCA. UK themselves had gone from boxer then left create FRES program which piranha 5 win then cancelled and create MIV program & reentered boxer program again.

The Korean can upgrade the FA50 and absorbed the cost of upgrade themselves & charge a low price.to Philippines, the Swedish can accept less profit margin or transfer some soon to be retired Gripen C from SAF or american can offered some used f16, or some loan or some foreign military assistance.

Wonder if I can give him my old kembara, a tgdi engine, DCT gearbox, some camera and a PC & get meself a discount X50 with auto drive.

Shouldn't cost more than 10k & it would work flawlessly right?

Actually what you trying to bangkang here?

$1.27 billion for the first 2 global eyes compared to $234 mil for the third is not double the cost of the third? Or double the cost of wedgetail?

As it is, UAE are paying double the equipment cost to pay for cost of intergration.

So In ATM context how does paying double the equipment cost to intergrate new equipment into a new platforms help them solve their resources constraints problems?

Why you suggested create a new varient of MCM,MALE, AEW,MPA,.LCA and pays at least double of equipment cost as you yourself acknowledge a superior choice then just go buy something that already completed where you only pay for equipment + profit margin

How is A new varient of LCA at double the cost due to intergration expenses at $50 mil a pop a better choice then just go buy a F16 or Gripen which is around that price as well? Or you know buy an interims solution until a time we can buy a real MRCA or wait for some other sucker to pay for intergration cost in those LCA a worse choice?

How is paying the $30 mil to add MPA equipment to an already existing ATR72 is a worse choice then paying at least $25 to $50 mil to create a new varient of CN 235 MPA?
https://netral.news/en/the-cn-235-aircraft-...-the-price.html

What happened if the end product didn't work as expected or face cost & delivery overrun? What do we hope to gain by taking on those cost & risk?

If anything, the hose country should pay for it, they would benefit from export of it. Not us. Why should we go & be a sucker tongkat other people, allowing others to be rich while we absorbed the cost & risk? How that's math even works?




Ps: The reason apple is successful is they don't go around building solutions to a non existent problem. Their ARM laptop is a solution to a real problem. Don't be like Microsoft who created an Arm PC for the sake of building an arm PC which doesn't solve shit. something a lot of shiok sendiri engineers love to do.

This post has been edited by darth5zaft: Oct 13 2021, 01:31 PM

Flyable?

Guess you need a beefier radar that can see things further away first to make it possible to have enough time for the operators, CMS & FCR to operate as intended & the ship has to be strong enough to take such impact so close to it.

Even sinki don't put a standalone CIWS on the LMV & la Fayette. It maybe the most expensive ship in ASEAN but by world standard it's relatively small & cheap ship. Type 26 for example is RM12 billion a piece

But with them have pretty much 'standardized' their radar & weapon systems not just for their navy but also their coast guard. So maybe their 30mm are already configured to take down missiles.

As for us, let just say we have too much suppliers, even the 30mm cannon suppliers aren't being standardized. It maybe possible, but difficult & expensive to do. Thus the keys as always is standardization to create an economic of scale. Even the largest military in the world do JOINT light tactical vehicle & JOINT strike fighter while also working with international partner to create the much needed economic of scale.

Lupa log out ke boss?😂

There's should be 3 more paper coming out in 2021/2022

1) defense investment national plan
2) defense national industry policy
3) defense capacity blueprint


This post has been edited by darth5zaft: Oct 22 2021, 04:01 PM

Big win for the Philippines.
12 F16 for half the previous price

Admin channel tamak
Nak bolot ID & MY viewers semua.🤣

Good News!

H20 seem had start lobbying the FPDA to get the 5th gen fighter.

PETALING JAYA: Pengaturan Pertahanan Lima Kuasa (FPDA) disifatkan sebagai relevan untuk tempoh 10 tahun akan datang sehingga 2031 bagi memperkukuhkan aspek keselamatan antara negara anggota.

Menteri Kanan Pertahanan, Datuk Seri Hishammuddin Tun Hussein berkata, negara yang terlibat dalam FPDA juga telah bersetuju menyatakan lima komitmen bagi menjamin keselamatan serantau.


Katanya, antara lima komitmen tersebut termasuk pengenalan aset generasi kelima dan memberi fokus kepada peningkatan misi melawan kegananas dan keselamatan maritim bukan tradisional.

“Selain itu, FPDA akan memberi fokus untuk mempertingkatkan keselamatan siber secara berperingkat dan meneruskan program pemerhati sebagai jaminan kepada jalinan kerjasama serantau.

https://www.utusan.com.my/terkini/2021/10/f...-lima-komitmen/

You calling Germany useless kinda hits too hard at home lah bos 🥲.

As it is we also play the same game as Germany, overly reliance on the Anglo Saxon to provide us protection while doesn't really do enough ourselves which itself a very parasitic behavior while backstabbing them in the process to fake play neutrality.

Well, yeah, Unfourtunately we are always destined to be the 5th largest economies & we would not do more then what the Netherlands did.

Well come to think of it Netherlands is quite a comparable economically (machinery, plantation,oil & shipping) & socially (Pillarisation society) to MY. Guess We would just play deputies to whoever the king shit is, and king shit guranteed our security.

The Netherlands army suck up to Germany & Italy, their navy suck up to UK & AF suck up to the US. Glad we only have 1 king shit thus No matter how much Mahathir dislike the king of shit back then, he still go out and bought the M11a1s,meko, hawk & hornet.

2022 National Security Budget.

The Defence Ministry is getting RM16.14 billion in the 2022 budget while the Home Ministry was allocated RM17.089 billion. This is the third year running that the Home Ministry got a higher allocation than Defence, following the government decision in 2019 to place the MMEA in the former. The national security sector got RM33 billion out of the RM311 billion allocated for 2022 or around 11 per cent of the total budget.

The 2022 allocation for Defence is an increase of some RM280 million allocated in 2021. Next year’s budget for Home Ministry also a slight increased from 2021, which was RM16.85 billion.


Operating expenditure (OE) for Defence in 2022 is RM11.05 billion, a slight decrease compared to last year which RM11.35 billion. Development Expenditure (DE) increase by some RM400 million to RM5.04 billion in 2022 compared to RM4.5 billion in 2021. What is interesting the allocation for asset procurement goes up to RM5.04 billion in 2022, it was RM4.5 billion last year.

A CGI of P-4 MPA by De Havilland and PAL Aerospace. PAL Aerospace

The DE for the Army in 2022 is RM175 million while equipment is RM1.12 billion; the RMN is RM68 million and RM1.07 billion; RMAF RM39 million and RM1.6 billion and Joint Force Command RM82 million and RM298 million. Interestingly STRIDE is receiving RM40 million in funds in 2022 compared to RM7 million in 2021 and RM5 million in 2020. The Armed Forces quarters development is allocated RM488 million this year compared RM293 million last year and RM166 in 2020.
.

The OE for the Home Ministry is RM13.5 billion while the DE is RM3.5 billion. The bulk of the OE and DE for the Home Ministry is of course allocated to the PDRM which is getting RM2.05 billion for its DE budget. MMEA is getting RM183 million in DE for 2022 compared to RM141 million in 2021.


https://www.malaysiandefence.com/2022-natio...ecurity-budget/