This is a pure protection life insurance. No cash value whatsoever.

If they still have to pay, why they put such a clause?

This post has been edited by contestchris: Jun 20 2024, 08:10 PM

I am doing research on buying pure protection term life insurance. So far, the 3 absolute cheapest I have come across are as follows for model age 30:

Etiqa Ezy-Secure:

- RM555 for RM500k coverage
- Increasing premiums (constant until age 36, thereafter rising every year until age 80)
- Non-guaranteed premiums
- Death & Accelerated TPD
- Special exclusion: Natural death in first year
- Conventional policy

FWD Protect Direct:

- RM845 (20y) / RM955 (25y) / RM1,135 (30y) for RM500k coverage
- Level premiums
- Non-guaranteed premiums
- Death only, no TPD coverage
- Special Exclusion: War and Unlawful Acts
- Takaful policy

HLA Term Cover 10:

- RM348 (10y) for RM300k coverage (max)
- Level premiums + guaranteed renewal up to two times (without evidence of insurability)
- Guaranteed premiums
- Death & Accelerated TPD
- Special Exclusion: Nil
- Conventional policy

Unit cost per RM100k coverage:

Etiqa Ezy-Secure = RM111 (increasing)
FWD Protect Direct 20y / 25y / 30y = RM169 / RM191 / RM227 (level-premium)
HLA Term Cover 10 = RM116 (level)

I have run the numbers, they are all roughly the same when you account for the level/increasing premiums and varying term periods. The FWD Protect Direct 25y / 30y is the "cheapest" when discounted to PV, on the condition that I commit to the full 25y / 30y term period. The Etiqa Ezy-Secure is the cheapest when looking at shorter coverage periods (up to ~20 years). At 20 years, the Etiqa and FWD plans hit an equilibrium. The HLB term plan offers very good rates for the first 10 years, but for renewals the rates are quite poor (possibly due to the guaranteed renewals without evidence of insurability).

The downside with taking a 25y to 30y term plan is that you don't have much flexibility.

I am considering taking both Etiqa Ezy-Secure at RM500k and HLB Term Cover 10 at RM300k. I plan to keep my Etiqa policy till between ages 50 and 60, while I plan to terminate the HLB policy after the 10 year term period ends. The logic is that this gives me the most flexibility, and after 10 years I should have a lot more in EPF should my dependents need it. At the same time, I can choose whenever I want to end my Etiqa coverage. The idea is that sometime between age 40 to 60, I should have enough net worth for my dependents to continue living without feeling much of a loss.

Note: I also have a GE ILP with SMS-D-250. My life coverage is at RM100k, with "free" annual increment of RM1k.

Appreciate if you guys could comment on this strategy. For now, my focus is purely on death/TPD. I would welcome your suggestions, especially if I should consider other insurance plans.

Fi.Life (both the default increasing premium, and level-term) and DearTime are both more expensive. DearTime is also rather cumbersome as it is fully app-based (including for claims).

Fi.Life increasing premium for 500k coverage is at RM650. It's around 10-15% higher than Etiqa's comparable direct plan per year.

Which company prices at 20% margin? From what I know, margin is usually higher as there is some buffer priced in (since these are simplified underwriting, higher chance of anti-selection). Also, company needs to allocate some expenses (usually 10%) and profit margin. Not to mention these tend to have accelerated TPD, which adds a bit more to the cost as well.

Here is a compilation of Etiqa Ezy Secure, Fi.Life and DearTime for model age 30:



This post has been edited by contestchris: Jun 21 2024, 09:11 PM

The Deartime policies are only "cheap" in the initial years.

Also, take note Deartime does not offer accelerated TPD coverage.

May I know what Etiqa plan you have?

I've been trying to get some quotes this past week and notice their system is frequently down.

Anyways, is Etiqa convenient (i.e. can change premium payment method, premium frequency, nomination etc via online portal)?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nst.com.my...y-payouts-watch

How can it happen? I thought payout to non immediate family member nominee/beneficiary is subject to estate?



This post has been edited by contestchris: Jun 26 2024, 07:15 PM

Smart option if you expect to be gainfully employed for the most part until age 60. You'll save loads on your medical card.

Personally, I feel that CI is only 3rd important and even then optional, after Medical and Life (but only if you have dependent).

This post has been edited by contestchris: Jun 30 2024, 11:06 PM

Does Great Eastern have a similar medical rider? Damn I need it.

Soon enough they will have, as per revised BNM Guidelines on medical insurance. All plans need rm500 deductible at minimum, and other options

This is false. There is a lot of misinformation about the new MHIT guidelines. Even the BNM press release is not clear.

1. From 1 June 2024 onwards, ALL NEW medical products launched must come with a minimum RM500 deductible OR 5% coinsurance.

2. From 1 September 2024 onwards, ALL insurance companies must offer at least ONE medical insurance product with a minimum RM500 deductible OR 5% coinsurance.

3. Existing products are not impacted, even if customers purchase after 1 June 2024.

4. Existing policies are not impacted and will need to be honoured until the end of the coverage period.

This post has been edited by contestchris: Jul 9 2024, 06:22 PM

Look man. If you have to foot 5% of a RM20k bill (i.e. RM1k), you will make sure the hospital charges properly. You will go through the itemised bill. You will probe them in detail for the need to do any tests / procedures that might not actually be necessary. You will probe them on treatments or medications listed on your bill but that you never actually received.

At the moment, with a fully cashless 100% expenses covered by insurer, do you think any of us go through the itemized billing or question needless procedures or tests being done?

1. This is false. Some form of future inflation is baked into the IL premiums. However, it's clearly not enough. More must be done cause the medical inflation used in deriving the premiums in the SI are single digit whilst in reality our medical inflation is closer to 15%

No, upgrade. Don't be a dumb dumb go buy a new ILP and surrender old ILP and line the pocket of the agent handsomely in the process

Which company and what plan? I can give you an accurate answer knowing that

Most likely the agent is being a conman.

Also, the part about new medical plans potentially being cheaper might be true for all the reasons you mentioned above. But you can switch to the new medical rider, no need to surrender and buy a new plan. I did that myself just last year.

Look man, no two ways about it. Your agent is a conman.

What is your old basic plan?

ILP has two components. SmartProtect You (SPY) is a basic plan. Before that, they have Smart Protect Essential (SPE).

SmartMedic Million (SMM) is a medical rider. Before SMM, they had SmartMedic (SM) and then SmartMedic Xtra (SMX). The latest is SmartMedic Shield (SMS).

Assuming you have a SPE + SMM combo, there is NO WAY you will pay lower premiums if you surrender and "upgrade" to a SPY + SMS combo.

Can you please give full details? Also, how does the agent tell you that the new combo will be "cheaper" than the old combo? This is simply not possible unless the "new combo" is inferior to the old combo.

I myself have SPE + SMX combo initially. Last year, I upgraded the rider so my new combo is SPE + SMS.

This post has been edited by contestchris: Jul 17 2024, 10:28 PM

Okay, so the new plan being proposed is superior to the old plan, assuming nothing changes. Bear in mind, SMM is also a newer medical card, there is no loss spiral issue there, yet. Plus your old R&B limit is RM200, new is RM250. SMM and SMS are largely otherwise similar.

Given that, it is absolutely not possible for the new plan to be cheaper than the older plan, given that the new medical rider's insurance charges is higher (e.g. at age 31-35 Male, SMS-250-D costs RM976 while SMM-200-D costs RM864), and also your older entry age. Plus you will need to pay the high distribution + management expenses in your initial years, where your allocation rate will be low.

1. How much is your current plan's monthly premium and what is the new plan's monthly premium?
2. What is the basic plan's Death/TPD coverage for both old and new plans?
3. What is the coverage term for the basic plan and also the medical rider?
4. What is the target sustainability period for the new plan vs the old plan?

Might I just suggest to upgrade SMM-200-D and SMME to SMS-250-D and SMSE? You will not need to lose out on paying the high expenses in the initial years.

Something is missing somewhere, the bugger is cheating you and you better find out how/where, then proceed to lodge a formal complaint against him with Great Eastern.

This post has been edited by contestchris: Jul 17 2024, 11:52 PM

Not true. The cooayments are needed due to idiots who abuse insurance. I know people who have gone and admitted to do preventive tests that cost around rm2k to rm3k when their close family member has a heart disease. By right can't but agent and Dr kamching so jalan.

But if these jokers have to pay a deductible of say rm500, they will think twice to abuse unnecessarily.

Also buy having skin in the game, customers will ensure hospitals charge only for incurred expenses. Some hospital bills include charges for services that were never rendered.

Also deductible and copaymwnts save significant expenses. Just check out the RHB or HLB plans, those with deductible have significant cost savings. So the savings are passed back to customers, not retained by insurers.

Are you guys being silly or what?

Insurance prices are by and large "regulated" by BNM. Especially medical insurance. BNM has to approve the pricing of the products:

1) When the product launches
2) When the product is being repriced

There is A LOT of scrutiny that happens when a product is being repriced. Usually for medical insurance, BNM will not entertain any request for repricing unless loss ratios > 90%.