Whether or not Rear cambers and toes of a vehicle car is adjustable (for Rear Independent Suspension design) or
non-adjustable (for Rear Torsion Beam or solid live axle design),
it IS critically important to measure and display Rear cambers and toes in a typical 4-wheel Alignment or Thrust Line Alignment.
Front Wheel Alignment (as commonly practised locally in Malaysia) without any regards to Rear cambers and toes readings is a sure recipe for headaches or poor driving experience for local car owners imho.


Source: What Every Motorist Should Know About Wheel Alignment
by www.aa1car.com

This post has been edited by zeng: Oct 25 2021, 12:28 PM

Hi guys,

Wanna ask my proton saga vvt 2018 is having an issue when driving straight line. The steering is pointing to left when I’m driving in straight line.

I have went for alignment, but still the same result.

May I know is camber issue or you guys have any recommend alignment shop in klang valley?

During straight ahead driving/tracking a steering wheel points to left phenomenon usually means toes setting problems.

That is assuming during alignment process, the steering wheel was properly 'squared' by the shop.

I suppose you have to apply effort holding on to the steering wheel at ALL time whilst tracking straight ahead?

Does the car veers or drifts to left/right with hands temporarily off the steering wheel?

In the absence of alignment result screenshots, I would speculate your problem is not caused by camber angles, not suggesting these camber angles are perfectly set up here.

If it is under warranty, I suggest you go back for an foc re-do/re-work .....
otherwise look out for another shop, where a good one is hard to come by IME.

Edit: 2018 Saga vvt has a Rear Torsion Beam suspension design which is non-adjustable stock. This shop may have overlooked and not considered the Rear cambers and Rear toes in this alignment job and contribute to your current problem.

This post has been edited by zeng: Oct 27 2021, 10:18 PM

So bro do you have any recommend tyre shops near Cheras or balakong?

There is a limited number of wheel alignment shops listed in Post #2 in this thread, not sure about their quality or finishings though.

Balakong ??....

May be have a look at Ah Man who uses manual method and provide feedback here on how he fares?

Note: I too am personally looking out for a top class wheel alignment shop with good finishing and quality service at reasonable price, hopefully near Subang Jaya/PJ area.

This post has been edited by zeng: Dec 22 2021, 11:09 AM

I think I will go for the Balakong one, but not sure how much does it charge...

So far there is no feedback in this thread of pricings and workmanship finishings of Ah Man, Balakong.

However, member @NobodyII has kindly updated here Ah Man has a sister Branch in Bandar Kinrara 5, Puchong which billed him RM120 for a more complete 4 Wheel Alignment on his SUV (brand/model unknown).

Your 2018 Proton vvt has a Rear Torsion Beam suspension design which is Factory non-adjustable and being isn't a SUV/MPV , hence I speculate it should be lower price than a 'real' 4 Wheel Alignment.

Avoid Front Wheel Front-End Alignment and ask for Thrust Line Alignment as explained here, if the shop guy knows what you are refering to as both these methods are part of 2 Wheel Alignment.

Kindly update us what happens?

This post has been edited by zeng: Oct 28 2021, 07:37 PM

Bro, I just went over there. The service is quite okay and it's manually alignment the tyres instead of using computer.

I would rate 4/5 for the service and the price too.

Thank you for your service ratings, for the benefit of all readers here.

Glad that you appear to be quite happy with the outcome thus far.

Btw, mind sharing with us his price of manually-aligning a 2018 Saga vvt and how long you got to wait ?

After a month or two of rather 'extensive' driving and testing, try to test and update us later whether your Saga can at ALL times drive straight like an arrow (American speak) and planted/steady:
a )under varying conditions of lower (60-80 km/hr) and higher (100-130 km/hr) road speeds, and
b )occasionally with both hands off the steering wheel (Caution!) where condition permits, and
c )during acceleration, and
d )during braking etc.

Besides, test if you have equal ease or heaviness in making turns to Left or Right.

Await your feedback on Ah Man's finishings in months to come.

Edit: The bold above is sort of a highly pleasurable ultimate/near-perfect driving experience one can get to enjoy and benefit from on typical roads/streets driving .......
even from cheapo cars with non-adjustable Rear suspension systems like Rear Torsion Beam and/or Live axle imho.

This post has been edited by zeng: Oct 28 2021, 11:21 AM

How to install rear shims on cars with Rear Torsion Beams suspension for improved alignment 'tuning' ?

What are the benefits?

https://www.hyundai-forums.com/threads/do-i...ignment.232377/



Question: Can rear shimming be carried out on a Rear Live/Fixed Axle like Avanza's?

Note: Rear Torsion Beam suspension is found in most Vios, Corollas, Prius, Yaris, City, Jazz, Fit, Civics, Accents, Elantras, Kias, some Europeans and probably all Perodua's etc, subject to specific model years.

This post has been edited by zeng: Dec 10 2021, 09:54 AM

Tuning for Oversteering and Understeering..

link



Refering to this display/screenshot, has the writer got the corrections reversed/terbalik?

tyre pressure seems incorrect, it will actually result in more under/oversteer instead

but on actual road, tyre pressure give very less correction on under/oversteer, not as much as adjust the stiffness of suspension

2010 Hyundai Tucson Front Suspension parts.

I commented something regarding the above in another lowyat thread.

Attached below are pictorials of some parts in question.

1 )Front Spring & Strut;



2 )Front Stabilizer bar assembly and;



3 )Front Lower Control Arm and Steering Knuckle;



Enjoy...

this web correct. myself got handful experienced jor.
the other web told u terbalik rite. i know the reasons.


we play pressure becos it no cost. change suspension require dollar spent

Yea, that's what I was thinking too along the lines of lower tyre pressure gives relatively higher grip than higher tyre pressure, everything else being equal.

Having said this, it bases purely on 'tyre engineering' or properties.

Could the writer approach this subject of over-steer/under-steer corrections from the perspective of vehicle suspension dynamics (which we ignore totally) during turning/cornering, which may cancel, neutralise or over-run grip effects of lower/higher tyre pressure?

For all we know, the writer could be right ?

Btw, does higher tyre pressure results in higher spring rate of a car suspension spring system whilst lower tyre pressure results in lower spring rate of said suspension system?

This post has been edited by zeng: Dec 31 2021, 11:46 AM

i dont know much about vehicle suspension dynamics or motion ratio, maybe you should email the writer to get your answer why he will put higher pressure at front to overcome understeer

from my experience going through different kind of road including track, too much pressure will cause the tyre not being grippy at corner and at straight it will be bumpy as well, and you will risk the tyre burst when it get higher than the designed air pressure, higher pressure do get you lower rolling resistance though

running lower pressure will allow more part of the tyres in contact thus more grip, but pressure too low will cause the wheel spinning on tyre sidewall while cornering and you will risk your tyre ripping itself off the wheel, on normal driving you might experience bouncy ride because of pressure and soft tyre sidewall

i have experiment with both and i use 33-35psi hot pressure for track day and 40psi front and 37-38psi warm pressure for normal/high driving, and it doesn't really help much in solving understeer or oversteer issue, or maybe a very minor effect, but from the perspective comfort,

tyre pressure doesn't affect spring rate, spring rate is the properties of the spring, unless you change the spring or the spring worn out/damaged, the spring rate will remain constant regardless your tyre pressure

personally i refer to this post https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=1110130 for more precise fine tuning, at the end of 3rd post there is the explanation on entry, mid-corner and exit understeer/oversteer and ways to overcome it, which i find it quite accurate since i can play around with the damper settings on track

but all these tuning and adjustment can only help you to a certain extent, if you did everything as told and your car still under/oversteer then that is the limit of your car/tyres and you are driving above limit, is time to look at your driving style instead

This post has been edited by amduser: Dec 31 2021, 08:08 PM

Not sure if I understood/interpret your position correctly, do you mean to say the pictorial by writer is correct?

@amduser may be right with his statement and experience above, which I generally concur .....
i.e the pictorial on understeer/oversteer corrections are not correct and indeed terbalik.

Besides in a vehicle turning or cornering scenario, increases in tyre pressure results in higher spring rate (on tyre contribution) that leads to tyre grip reduction.

Decreased tyre pressure correlates with lower (tyre) spring rate that leads to tyre grip increase.

From the viewpoint of vehicle suspension dynamics in a turning/cornering, @amduser's position is still valid imho.

This post has been edited by zeng: Jan 4 2022, 01:17 PM

many not realize. originals article base on racing slick not street tyre.
saja copy paste to post so make us all upside downed

another reason is becos of posche website maa.
everything become correct when u put reverse gear

so zeng ur way is correct. dont hesitate.