Right so 2-3 weeks ago I came into office late for the entire week - 5 1/2 days per week. Work hours are 8am to 5pm, Saturdays 8am to 12pm. So for that week, I checked into work by 5-10mins late, and it was just that week I came in later - due to bad weather.

So last week the HR girl came and find me. She was telling me "this is a verbal warning because last week you were late by 5-10mins. In the future if you are late again, it's grounds for you to get fired. Do you understand?" Something along that line. I of course apologised and said I won't do it anymore (or at least try not to) in the future.

And earlier this week, one of my colleagues got a warning letter for being late by 5mins...

I understand its not a good habit to always come in to work late. But really? Getting fired just over lateness? Isn't that a bit extreme? Is lateness in a non-FSC job taken in such a high regard? We're not a back or financial sector, and we don't face customers in person daily. We deliver our daily and weekly work earlier than usual. We've been consistently hitting targets regularly too. Is lateness any worst than say...stealing money from the company? Or breaking company property to say the least? Why are employers like this??????????????????????????????????

Edit: all right guys I've read the comments. I'd just like to clarify that although yes it's my fault for coming in late, I do hope that the company can be a bit more flexible sometimes. After all the job I am doing is not a customer-facing job nor a manufacturing job. I'm a content writer cum social media exec. My work hours do not necessarily abide by the regular 8am-5pm, 9am-6pm. Sometimes I may have to work weekends, like tidying up my work and whatever. However, if the management thinks that coming in to work by 5-10mins late is the biggest offence to have existed, then boy are they really....******.

Also, if I am late by 10mins, I don't mind working extra 10mins after work to replace those late minutes. It really isn't that hard. What I didn't like is how the HR and management are so stiff in what they do. Some days I clock in extra 30-60mins they don't bat an eye. I come in 10mins late, they threaten with me getting fired. It's pretty obv when they "sent a message" by giving a senior staff a warning letter for coming in 5mins late. Sometimes its about live and let live.

This post has been edited by Redshelf411: Dec 16 2020, 02:20 PM

Usually Japanese company or Chinaman company. Either you accept it or get another employer. No other choice

For me, if I am your boss, if you show up late for the entire week, I will raise the alarm as well. Sporadically, it is okay. You see, your inability to come to work on time means that some other area is lacking as well,. Maybe not true for you but perception is reality.

That's kinda normal if you're working in a company that's strict when it comes to timing. That's what it's like in my previous company. You'll get a warning if you're late a few times and be fired if you continue to be late. I can't remember if anyone actually got fired though but management was serious about it. If you're late they'll tell you to leave the house like 15 - 30mins earlier next time which in a way does make sense. If you want to argue that you still get your work done even when you're late then that's something you have to explain to management because maybe it could simply be because they don't see it.
It's the newer staffs who needs to be careful since they need to make a good impression but if you're one of those staffs who has shown that you can get shit done and can provide a valid reason why you're late then there's nothing to worry about. Bad weather is definitely not a good reason though.

This I agree.

This post has been edited by masterelr: Dec 3 2020, 10:34 PM

Half hour one hour that is overboard but this only few minutes only. Even berak takes longer than few minutes

usually have other underlying issue.
boss will ask hr to monitor. try to find mistakes.
give warning letter then can fire. this fulfil the legality side.

chinaman company definitely

i have worked in companies where ppl come in 15 minutes late (i myself did that), 30 minutes late, one hour late every single day, no issue at all...

You have some salty HR unfortunately. Looks like Chinaman company indeed.

As some forumer here have said, there might be an underlying issue. It could be your company is looking for a reason to let go some staff. Or it could be you and your colleague is not performing.

To answer your question can company fire you for being late? Yes they can but not so easy. You will get few warning letters, then showcause letters then they can fire you. My advice start looking job somewhere else or stay there and follow the Chinaman rules. If you good in office politic go try be friend with HR and boss, you might get special treatment.

Could be. Been here close to 6mths now and I've been seeing new staffs being asked to leave at end of probation period or before. Wouldn't be surprised if they want to let new staffs under 1 year leave too.

chinamax company. and it seems like they are using probation staff as cheap temporary labour while still operating within legal grounds (we assess this staff to not be performing up to standards...)

but TS, do take this seriously if you want to stay in that company. verbal warnings do count and can be escalated into formal written warnings. try to get on your hr's good side as an interim measure?

well, some companies strictly follow the policies only, so if the hour stated 8am to 5pm, you come in sharp and leave sharp je, dun rugi to the company.

whether they got grounds or not? likely because you're the one who is in contravention of the policies? it also depends on your boss, whether your boss ok or not.

last time my company 8.30am but clock in 10am or so also no problem for us, why? because we work round the clock, when we work until morning, nobody bats an eye.

just be careful tho. coming in late often will hurt your performance review. if the company wants to lay off employees especially during this covid19 situation, they can use whatever reasons to deem you as "poor performer"

not just chinaman company, MNCs also do the same.

I get the memo during my 3mths probation here. The 3mths probation, after that lay off is already so clear of a message. A lot of times I just lower and hang my head so I will be less subjected to their line of fire. Compromise sikit lah what to do. I know I can fall back to my freelance job and rely on the income. but sometimes having a bit more money is good too.

Thats true. I guess anything can happen during this period. Best I lower my head and just be their yes-man saja

must sit at the place 8am, doesnt matter u doing anything... do coffee,wash cup,chit chat....

sampah company with of course come with its sampah culture

dude, check your employment letter and tell me what it says about coming to work timing

I've checked again. They never said shit about it. BUT in the employee handbook, they did list lateness as a serious offense. Sleeping in office also a serious offense.

Not forgetting to mention their "list of workplace offences, major and minor" spans 7-8 pages. Ridiculous though it's like they are scared of getting offended.

if it's in the handbook, then they have the ground to fire you la.
there must be a precedent for them to put that rule into the handbook in the 1st place, especially for manufacturing/service based industries. The solution is simple, don't like the workplace rules just leave them and find another alternative that suits you.

Yeah and over being late by 5-10mins? Albeit delivering results consistently (or relatively)? We aren't manufacturing/service based company. We aren't sales exec either. This is like a case of "
一点不能放开" situation.

And the "don't like it, then quit/give up" approach? Childish tbh. I don't mind joining a company that pays me shit for the cinapek amount of work they dump on me but hey look I'm still here! I c an leave but that means they'd go back to a china-like company with crap branding. Typical Malaysian mindset.

In all honesty, that lateness of 5-10min could have been avoided by leaving house 15min earlier than usual. Knowing it's not a good habit, definitely try to avoid. Like someone said, sporadically being late - that's still alright. But consistently 1 week late is bad news. Company does have the right to issue warning letter for this, but whether it could be grounds for termination - unsure. Probably someone in the HR can advice.

For us it's simple. Overall throughout the year if you're late for more than x number of days, x% of your bonus will be deducted (quite a big %).
Cinapek? Very so if mau jaga poket then don't be late - that's the message they're sending.

i know where you are coming from and someone already mentioned this before, this only happens typically in Japanese/China based companies. I'm not defending this rule.

"Jaga pocket" lol just how much bonus will we get after 1 year of covid-charged business. Heard my seniors say this year the benefits clawback. But funnily enough still hiring new staffs. No idea where the common sense and logic went already.

I don't know man... I am a firm believer of following rules and respecting other people's time. If my date shows up late a few min in our first date, that raises a tiny flag in my mind. To me, a person respecting other people's time and rules earns my respect already especially in the working world.

If respecting thy rules over time management is important, the company would have released our salaries by 30th/31st of the month. Not wait until 7th of the following month before releasing the salary. Our salary is our time given to the company. Can't pay salary on time is also a form of lateness. Fight me.

The company you work for is a shitty company then. Please do not use the company you work for as an excuse not to respect time. Also, yes, I am fighting you.

Respect is a 2 way street. I can do whatever the company wishes me to do. But to pull the card "I'm boss"? Sure, most likely the kind of company won't last 10 years.

In this covid situation, chinaman companies become even more chinaman because they know its an employers market now

Yes, Tardiness/Lateness can be serious misconduct after repeated verbal/written warning.
At the end, it could be grounds of termination for employment contract.

I went through some of traditional mindset companies, they will say:

Today, the employment contract/ offer letter formed because
- Employer give salary to employee
- Employee give services to employer

If employee did not follow the clauses in employment contract (e.g. 48 working hours per week), it can consider as breach of contract indirectly.

This post has been edited by Jesse0916: Dec 5 2020, 11:18 PM

this

No idea. Company managed to 'recover' after MCO period, and things improved tremendously in the past few months. The Management has always given out bonuses, even during recession in the '98 (according to the long timers), so I guess even in the worst case scenario, a small payout will still be given. Partially should be $ saved from any annual dinner/ trip etc this year, and also contribution from our deducted salary.

That's being way too strict imo. Give some flexibility. Being late several minutes for a social event (ie. a date, gathering, dinner etc) shouldn't be judged. But being late for a meeting, convention, important company event etc shouldn't happen for reasons it's official business/ work. Professionalism should be shown.

Thanks, guess you're from HR. I have a question:

You mentioned the 'clauses in employment contract' ie. the 48 working hours per week. This is in presumption that the employee who is constantly late for work, leaves on time.

However if he/ she always make up for the lateness? Example, every week he/ she comes in 15min late, but would stay up to 1 hour extra per day. That's 45min more than necessary to make up for the lateness. In this situation - i guess the clause is not effective?

Yep. Its a full on chinaman company mindset now. Can't be helped.

maybe after a few warnings?????

Well. You are right. You see for those companies, it's not really about performance or even productivity. It's just that the boss had some issues when he was young and now he just want to vent his frustration on the employees. You see, your boss is a control freak and he probably thinks almost everyone in the company are animals.

You made the mistake of joining this company in the first place. If you really have ability, you would have probably left a long time ago. Maybe you should plan to leave because really, this company really sux.

Actually, the situation can become very awkward when say someone which they cannot afford to let go at the moment stand up against them. For example me. Cinapek company are actually pretty easy to control. When you have something important, they cannot afford to let you go. And remember, no one wants to go to such a company so they probably know that they will not be able to replace you for a long time.

Now that I am working in this company for a short while, I realize only incapable people stay there. But then misery loves misery. And because I have something important. I can "play" around with them.

And I know those incapable people probably hate my guts. You see, I can do what I do because I am almost "indispensable". You know that they are incapable already because they can be so easily brainwashed and controlled.

Actually, most of those cinapek bosses really are not that smart. Serious. And they have serious issues when they were young that's why they think they now become bosses they can treat you like a slave just because they are your bosses. Stay there longer and you start to think like your cinapek boss. It's not good.

This post has been edited by sickjoker: Dec 7 2020, 09:05 PM

5 minutes is peanut, I would allow even 1 hour, but you go back 1 hour late lo.

Unfortunately, you are dealing with people who wants to make life difficult for others.

Screw people like this, its no that you get rewarded for arriving 5 mins earlier as well.

If you really think about it. The core of the issue was never just about "punctuality"

Funny why so many ppl support TS since he late to work for 1 week.
I do agreed that late to work is fine but not late to work for 1 week. If the weather remains the same for 1 month, will TS late to work for 1 month?
BTW, if stealing money they are not going to fire you. They will send you to jail

This post has been edited by dreamfasten: Dec 7 2020, 11:14 PM

I feel really sorry for you.

Fuh.. typical Malaysian mindset.
Dei. Late is late...

One reason why clock in never works.

Let's say I left my phone at my house. If I go back to my house to take my phone, I will most probably be 5 minutes late. So I just go to the office anyway. Do you think I will be able to concentrate for the rest of the day?

But people get penalized for stupid things such as this instead of getting their work done

This post has been edited by sickjoker: Dec 8 2020, 10:25 AM

legal yes after 3 wiring letter

Hmm fair point I guess

Exactly this. I mean sure I apologised for being 5mins late to work for that 1 week. But getting angry over 5mins late for the whole week is pretty telling of the management tbh. What more I have some colleagues who said "if I'm late for 5mins I won't even bother showing up to office". They have that kind of mindset. To be honest 5mins lost is just that 5mins. Staffs still have 7hrs 55mins to complete their work and target. Better 5mins late than never at all!

1 week as opposed to 52 weeks of work. 1 week late does not mean the other 51 weeks people will be late. You will rather have your staff come in by 5mins late but still have the remainder 7hrs 55mins to complete their daily/weekly tasks.

It's like people losing rm1 and then getting pissed over it. It's just rm1, not rm1,000,000,000. Not like we're earning much either we are even working 1/2 days Saturday.

My personal experience, its all depends on your manager. It was the manager who reported to HR. HR come and give warning and probation period. If manager still not happy, then you can be laid off due to no discipline and unable to meet company requirement. Another manager I've worked with, never reported to HR even staff late for an hour each day. What matter is they deliver and easy to reach via phone.

This only works if you are not front facing customer or similar to that line.

This post has been edited by alien505: Dec 8 2020, 11:02 AM

Sorry TS i am not knowing you that well.
Are you saying this is the first time u late to work (though it is entire week) for whole year? The rest of the 51 weeks you never being late to work before.
If yes, then I had to take back my words.

I had to clarify that i dont think being late to work is an issue. But if it is repetitive for the entire week, I think something wrong is here. But if you saying you seldom late to work and this is your first time to do so, I think your boss is being too strict on this. Nonetheless, your boss should know you better than me.

Haha...I am HR kuli, bukan expert.

Can he/she make up for lateness? This is depends on the company & management, but I believe majority managers will not allow it.

1) For example, if you are in manufacturing (assembly line), each worker start their production at 8:30am. If one person late to the production line, the whole production target will be affected.

2) Some of the company still has key holder practice(the last person lock the door). If the staff want to make up for the lateness, but key holder want to lock office door on time & go back home. In this case, it become impossible to stay up.

3) the 48 hours per week is an example. Most of the company will indicate the working hours in employment contract clearly, such as 9am - 6pm Monday to Friday.

etc....will add on if any.

Any company that needs you to work on Saturday in office is surely a Chinaman-style old-fashioned company that values only zombies.

Try to find your way out or you will suffer imbalances in your life. It's even more damaging when your earnings don't mean much, especially when you take Saturday as typical holidays to be spent with your loved ones or friends.

The govt should make Sat/Sun triple the daily pay compulsory regardless of industries to discourage workers exploitations.

As for your lateness of 5 mins, the mutual respects go both ways. The HR shouldn't interfere with your timeliness unless specifically directed by your superior or HOD. Direct involvements by HR means that the company is a small biz that doesn't value talents (if there is even a talent management team) that needs robots, not human for the work.

This post has been edited by abc2005: Dec 9 2020, 12:37 AM

Not everyone works in manufacturing line, or in customer service jobs. I'm sure a good lot of us a just your regular Joes, regular Janes working white collared jobs. Yes we do check in at 8am/9am Mondays to Saturdays (my company work 1/2 day Saturdays). Thing is I've elaborated in the other comment. You come in 5mins late, you still have 7hrs 55mins to get your daily, weekly, monthly tasks to complete. Would you rather have an employee coming in late by 5mins, but still get things done? Or would you rather have an employee who knows they are late by 5mins but choose not to come in to work *at all*?

Think about it. The employee still have 7hrs 55mins to do the work anyway. It's still an honest day's work after all. What more a lot of Malaysian companies don't even pay OT for white collared staffs. If they really want to be so calculative, then nobody's gonna win this blame game. This whole "I slap you, you stab me" mindset has to be killed off once and for all.

When I first joined this company I thought things seemed OK. 2-3mths in is where all the cinapek mannerism start showing. At one point I have to deal with a 40yo colleague (or department HOD) and his crybaby ass. He legitimately cried when we disagreed with his flawed idea and presentation. I'm not kidding he broke down in tears what a fucking nightmare! The boss actually sided with him just because he's older. The whole debacle got so bad the other guy just decided to up and leave the company. Because there's no way 2 20+yo youngsters have to deal with a man twice our age who knows nothing but only to cry when we point out the flaws and want to correct it.

That's how shitty the company's mindset is. They basically run on this "I can do this to you, but you cannot do this to me" mindset and "you step on my foot, I will stab you to death" approach. Just last week we have 1 biz dev coming in. Within less than 1 week she decided to just give 24hr and leave because somehow the management is just too overbearing and cannot see beyond their nose. So yes my current company is memang a chinamam company lol.

This post has been edited by Redshelf411: Dec 9 2020, 08:27 AM

Perhaps, but it also depends. Like in my office, honestly speaking - both my superiors have no issue with our team coming in slightly late and whatnot. To them it's a menial issue and most of the time we work more than required anyway. So long it does not fall habitual in being late everyday.

Its the HR and top management who wanted to implement the system that ties in bonus with lateness

Haha how often would we get experts lurking here. Most of us here more or less are kulis.

No, I'm not referring to whether employees are allowed to 'make up' for their lateness. Was referring to the fact that employment clause states employees must work min 48 hours. So my point is, even if included in the late hours, the employee still contributing >48 hours, is it deem ineffective for the employer to take action?

.

No doubt your point if the person is a 'key holder' or if they're in the manufacturing line - there's utter importance for accurate time to report in. But so far in most of the work places I've been in (apart from 1 or 2), everything is auto and all you need is your staff card to enter.

Even if there are key holders, there will be a few people with keys. There's no concern about no one opening the door or 1 person being late which then causes everyone else to be late too. If there is such practice in the workplace, then my comment is - it lacks proper planning. What if the sole key holder has an emergency? What is the key holder, for example, forgot his key that day? 101 possibilities. Never rely only on 1 person.

I think some sort of compassion should be shown to the colleague. Why he behaved that way - partially could be due to stress, or he has mental health problems. He may be dealing with problems that nobody knows. What happened could be an outburst after he was being cornered.

End of the day, mass majority will find it hard to not work for Chinaman companies because SMEs are >90% in Malaysia.

Well. Typical. But then, we can see people trying to defend this old man behavoir.

In an MNC, this guy will be kick out no question. But then in a cinapek company, you can do virtually anything once you reach a certain position like I implied earlier. This guy basically knows once he uses this tactic, he basically wins. But then we also know that this guy is probably shameless. What kind of person will behave like this at such a age? No shame? See. This is what happens when you stay in a toxic environment for too long.

In fact, I am still "adapting" working in a cinapek company. A person can virtually be useless but yet still get away with it just because that person has experience in working at a small company. I dunno. They can virtually steal and take your credit in an obvious manner and still get away with it. And there is no shame in them doing it at all even though it is so obvious. And the stupid manager will somehow still side with that person. For example, I provided a architecture diagram for the whole system. The new person that comes in just made a little change to that diagram, prettify it and then send it to the group. And of course the stupid manager sided her because I am in very bad terms with him.

Now you know why that 40 year old can cry and still get away with it.

So the question is, do you really want to deteriorate to such a level working in this kind of conditions.

I know one thing. Once I resign and the whole system get messed up in the process, that manager will still continue in his ways just because he can.

Actually let me add something to make this more interesting.

I have shown very clear intentions of leaving. And yet I was still "mistreated" just because I show face to my boss.

Of course, if they could kick me out, they would have done so a long time ago but yet for some reason my boss treated me not in the best possible way.

The thing is, I am like a walking time bomb. Once I leave, the project that I am involved in will probably take a very "long time" to restart again seeing the capabilities of the people joining my team.

But then my boss still thinks that he is actually "god".

See the stupidity in this kind of company?

Actually adding one more observation.

The person who newly arrived acted arrogantly towards me even though she needed to learn about the system from me and also her abilities are not really up to par. I dunno how chinapek companies work. But then in most scenarios, this person would probably be let go right since if I cannot work with her, I will have to request to the boss that she leaves.

But then she probably knows how the system work having work in cinapek companies b4.

Everyone has stress and deal with problems outside of work, us included. What gives this dude the right to throw a tantrum in the office? His life is hell, does not mean he should make others' lives hell. We just merely let him know there's a mistake in his work. All he need to do is just make the changes and get on with life. We didn't get paid to be workplace nannies.

True though. I've observed in the last 5-6 months of working here, he's started by talking crap and spreading rumours about the other guy. Mind you, this other guy (our IT guy) is also new as he came in around the same time we do. This IT guy found out and confronted him a few times about it. Nicely and politely of course. But everytime he tried to talk to the 40yo guy, this 40yo guy will just walk away or pretend the IT dude isn't there. Until that "fateful day" when we pointed out the mistakes this 40yo guy did, that's when he go into a crying tantrum and do whatever other shit. The HR girl gave him a warning letter, and gave me a verbal warning. The warning letter the IT dude received was his sign to leave the company. Printed out a resignation letter and submit on the spot. Said he's gonna leave and just don't contact him anymore.

What makes me stay, you ask? I'm still looking for a new job here in East Malaysia. I may not like where I am now, but believe me I'm trying my best to look for a better job here. Hells be damned if I have to work Saturdays in the next company. Dealing with a 40yo crybaby in the workplace is mega ridiculous. Company giving warning over 5mins late is just as ridiculous too.

Good lord this company and country is going to the dogs. Everyone thinks its ok to be shit to each other, but if people bite back it's like they've been sinned against a million times

Checked with my HR college about your question here.
As long as staff was late for even 2 minutes only, it still consider as "lateness", and company is able to take disciplinary actions to end the employment contract after few warning letters. It happen to some of my colleges also.

As mentioned, end of the day this is depends on your superior/manager, whether they will cover you or not.
Assuming you are one of the poor performance staff in the department, definitely "lateness" will become one of the points to against you.

This post has been edited by Jesse0916: Dec 9 2020, 10:37 PM

That's more of the reason to get this shit done with ASAP. In East Msia, there would not be much other than oil & gas, logging, and fisheries. Not sure about your industry but if you are into oil&gas, you should aim for reputable companies like Shell or Petronas and the likes. Chinaman-style companies are quite prevalent in S&S compared to West Malaysia where the HQ are more likely to follow international standards of 5-day work week. Having your boss to defend the indefensible made things even worse.

If all else fail, try to look into opportunities in West Msia or SG if your skill-sets are in demand. Just never settle for less or compromise on Saturday work, unless you can get replacement leaves or compensated for your work.

Am looking into west Malaysia tbh. Not gonna lie, here I am in the office and I'm already bored AF with work. What more the management forever having their eyes on us is pretty tiring though. What could have been an easy, stress-free job job turned into one that's making me burnt out.. Hells.. My colleague next door has been dozing off more often than usual. In a day he can be sleeping for up to 45mins-1hour. Snoring some more. Ughh shit company is shit company!

a lot of people mention japanese company, chinaman company. eh, if you have stupid boss who is very critical about timing, malay, and indian company also the same la. they will still find excuse to penalise you.

Someone mentioned here (or somewhere similar on LYN) that "chinaman" usually refer to the mindset, not the race. So yes, if your boss is an Indian or Malay, it's possible they run on a chinaman style too.

from my experience, yes you can.

but i bet its through multiple warnings that is.

it is normal to deduct salary if late to work?

from HR perspective:

its not that easy to fire someone just because being late.

being late is a minor misconduct.
but habitual lateness is a major misconduct.

and habitual lateness can cause issues with teammates/colleagues, interfere with work, productivity, and whatever negative effect you can put in.
example: how can a manager or supervisor arrange a schedule / plan, and then one of his staff doesnt come on time and cause him to change schedule everytime?

this is more than enough reason to fire someone.

of course, need to give enough warning and ample time for the staff to explain and improve themselves.
if still continue, then bye bye.

agreed with this case. there was some in my company as well. they even resort to potong gaji/cancel the yearly increment/no bonus. to that extend but after 3 warning letter off course. and i'm not in chinaman company.

until we change new bos and he change the policy to more relax working hours - flexible. now no more lah.

This post has been edited by edan1979: Dec 10 2020, 01:08 PM

Is it normal to always pay staff salary late?

Typical mindset where "I step on you, you stab me to death" scenario. There's no winning here.

You are right. Frequent lateness like TS is a habitual lateness. I encountered cases MNC fired staffs who were regularly late for work. One can go to the Industrial Court case management portal to search and download the details for those cases.


Paying before or on 7th of next calendar month is legally allowed. Section 19(1) of the Employment Act 1955, you're to be paid within 7 days after the last day of any wage period (usually a month). HR needs time to compute PCB, EPF contribution, Socso, OT calculation and etc.

Even if it's legal, it's still late. You seem to forget most MNCs release salary by 1st in the latest. Receiving salary by 7th = no motivation to work.
Chinaman company is really chinaman company. Work 5.5 days of the week, 52 weeks of the year, and still paying such a crap salary. Work OT didn't even pay OT. You think this is fair for the employee or not? Can say "just leave on time lah" sure can. Then later boss bising say never stay back to do more work what's your justification for that?

If want us to replace the 5-10mins during lunch or after work, also can. Not an issue with me. People just have to live and let live.

To be honest, I still do not understand why receive salary by 7th. All cinaman companies seem to be like that.

When you pay by 7th, how am I going to pay my credit card fees, my rental etc.

My rent is due every 1st of the month. When I told my landlady my salary will be out only by 7th, and that I can only pay by that date or after, you should have seen her face. It's like I've just called her some kind of very offensive name.

There were few times already where she yelled at me for always paying rent late. But how to pay rent on time when company always pay by 7th? Go find my boss and yell at him lah!

Thanks for clarifying.

'nuff said, employees need to take this more seriously than it may seem. Malaysians have a bad habit of being late, thus the "Malaysian timing" saying. BUCK UP PEOPLE!

Salary cannot be out later than 7th of the month. If they're even 1 day late, you can report them.

But do labour department ever do anything about it? Although they mentioned how even if it's just a 1x incident where your salary is paid on 8th and can report. My ex-colleague tried before but labour department advised her to "just wait" or "sabar saja", somewhere along that line.

Interesting discussion guys, to me it’s all depend on company culture and practice, I have worked in an environment like TS and there’s no other way to deal with that except to follow the norm in the company.. I’m not saying it’s right or wrong but that’s how the company operate and we need to abide by the guideline

On the other hand, you can always leave if you’re not happy with the culture like I did and most companies that I work before or after that never see time to office as an issue or a even a point of discussion, new KPI/SLA is very robust and as long as you achieve your target, complete your deliverables by end of day/week or month no one gonna ask you anything even they didn’t see in office at all and i strongly believe this is a better practice after over 15yrs in employment market. This practice would allow exceptional creativity from the employee and better result.

luckily my mnc bank emphasize on effectiveness/efficiency rather than on this sort of minute stuff.

And it is an unwritten rule that meeting should not be set at 9am sharp. I believe this is the family value that my employer keeps emphasize on

Like it or not, the "leave if you don't like" and "don't like, don't use" comeback is getting stupid. As long as the company and I need each other, this mindset should be burnt to ashes and never be brought up again. It's pathetic as much as its childish.

This basically. It's not like we are a customer facing department. We don't even deal with customers at all. So what's the problem when we complete our daily, weekly, monthly tasks on time? It's not like we drag 500yrs to complete it.

Don’t really understand your point here.. what sort of mindset you referring to? And from which perspective?

my advice, if you do not like the working culture, just leave. No big deal.
Even myself, i left my previous companies due to management and culture issue.

"Don't like working culture then leave" is a pretty stupid advise. So if you face a problem, your predisposition is to leave? Man if that's your approach to life, then your problem solving skills must have really sucked. No 15yrs of work experience can cover that up.

If late by 5-10mins late, either leave house early or replace the late minutes. That's one of the ways to resolve the problem. Not leave over 10mins lateness it's very childish. Typical Malaysian mindset.

i left and get to higher level to where i am today.
if that's your way of dealing with your problem and stay at the same place while powerless change jackshit, more power to you then

The problem here is not 5-10mins late, it’s continuous lateness and it’s your attitude buddy.. your company has a strict policy either you follow them or like many have said, you have an option to leave. But if you choose to stay and wanted to change the policy and culture all I can say is good luck.

Another interesting things here, you asked an opinion from public forum and you didn’t listen, I don’t expect you to follow or take all the opinions, ppl provide their feedback based on their experience and there’s no right or wrong in that, you have an option to take whichever that applicable to your scenario which only you know best. However you choose to refute them with very unprofessional choice of words.

All I can say to you, all the best! and I believe attitude is most crucial element if you want to go further up.

Usually the lodging of such report should have been taken note by the Labour Dept, but I'm not surprised Malaysian employer sometimes releases salary 1-2 days late. If it happens frequent, make a report every time it happens.

Also, because of Covid/ pandemic, personally, some flexibility to the company for 1-2 days late esp companies that may have cash flow issue. If the company is habitually late, report them every time your salary is late. With high number of records or high frequency of complains (by other staffs as well), the authorities will need to take action.

You can read about this here:
https://fareezlaw.com/employment-law/employ...salary-on-time/

But really, usually such concern is when employers always pay late, or refused to pay when there's an ongoing dispute.

Somewhat agree. There's no justifying lateness (exception to occasional lateness ie. heavy rain, major accident etc) - otherwise it's indeed wrong in the first place. Companies that practices flexi hours would be suitable for those who prefer not to be tied down with 9-6pm kinda work.

Again 5-10mins late won't kill a mundane office job. What more the boss said he will only try out this department for 1/2 year before booting it. If he already has that kind of mindset so be it. Don't expect people to respect you when you can't respect them. Shit attitude begets shit attitude.

Sure if leaving and landing a new job guarantees better pay I'm sure every Malaysian would have done that. Flash news: not every Malaysians can do that. So why don't you get your company to hire all of us then? Shit attitude begets shit attitude.

Well rules are rules.
Just so that you probably need companies that have flexi working hour or less stringent with late 5 minute.
If late 1-2 hours once in a blue moon with valid reason is also okay geh.
It all depends on employment policy and flexi working hours or not

See where this issue and discussion is headed for? People can say its ok for bosses and management to do what they and it's "justified" with no hardline evidence to back them up. This is a clear case of "I can do this to you, but you cannot do the same to me." Until then, it's a push-pull workplace issue.

instead of asking why cant i be late for 10-15 min?

why not woke up 30 min earlier and come out 30 min earlier

if 1 weeks late 1 days, due to bad weather make it a habit to text yr manager to let him/her knws. i guess they wont make any noise.

but if 1 weeks every day late hard to justifies.

when you signed offer letter, you agreed to their working hour. so try ur best to abide by them.

you are right too. many chinaman company have this mindset because of discipline.

all my previous chinese bosses have the same discipline mindset when it comes to work - come in early and start the day fresh.
but now the generation is slightly laid back and take things for granted.

Too me its depends how value yourself and how the company values u,For my case as IT software i can come in office late as long as I deliver my tasks then they are ok with it.
Anyway my working time is 9.30 but i always arrive at 10.30am to 11 been doing it for years.Its depends on the nature of work and your discipline towards the work.We are in the software industry We have to work countless hours.A HR tried to do the same doing a clock in system (Web) i didnt even bother to login and clock,I never get any warning letter or any sort and my CEO will just come and buy me coffee and ask me to tried to be early.





Value yourself more then u value your company.

Another piece of advise value your clients more then your company.That is how you cari makan.

You sure provide in valuable advice.

To be honest, why would the ceo even ask you to try to be early? You really should get out of the company as soon as possible.

Actually you should hint to the ceo that if he tries to be funny, you may actually think of leaving the company.

Arriving to work on time can be settled in many ways. Eg. Staff may be rewarded for achieving certain targets, same as medical leave taken, etc

The issue is lack of recognition and lowered morale which leads to less motivation to support organization needs and hence the perception that contractual terms such as work hours may be broken because the company is a 'lousy place to work'.

This is then a sign of poor management which HR should help address.

A highly motivated workforce with clear reward incentives linked to meeting organisation goals do not have persistent punctuality issues

Lol, if they are so strict on this issue, just adhere to it but by 531 pm, ignore any communication from them.

ts can start own biz and hire workers....

be your own boss.....different perspective