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 Steering Wheel Alignment not Wheel Alignment

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zeng
post Nov 24 2020, 08:18 PM

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QUOTE(clockpulses @ Nov 24 2020, 06:50 PM)
When i drive straight because it is loose abit on left side, the steering wheel go left and cause it to steer to the left without my input. Seems to me it is not balance.

......................................................................

After left corner, the steering wont return to center at 12 oclock but instead , only return to between 11 and 12 oclock (11.30 oclock). This is nothing for short drives but it will be uncomfortable and tiring for long drives as ibhave to contantly adjust the wheel to center manually

.........................................................................
But the is aslight knocking sound on uneven road and after speed bump


In the absence of computer readouts , it is most likely wheel alignment related IMHO .

Any further speculation on (mis)alignment could be running wild , without a computer screenshot .

In the unlikely event that the alignment were properly and professionally done , it could be tyre related .......

but heck , you have installed 4 brand new tyres !

Btw, what is the car model we are talking about here ??

Note : Oops, Proton . Which species ?


QUOTE
Am i right to suspect on the steering column?

*
No, I don't think so .


Edit : Besides front axle toe adjustments , any other angle alignments ?
Alternatively , how much was the total charges for the alignment job ?

This post has been edited by zeng: Nov 24 2020, 08:35 PM
dwRK
post Nov 24 2020, 10:32 PM

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QUOTE(clockpulses @ Nov 24 2020, 08:00 PM)
Its a Proton. I never see myself selling the car, planning to use it as long as i can that is why i am very particular on thr suspension issues and want to solve all i can
*
cool. well...I'd try swapping the fronts tyres first...if problem still, next to investigate is the hydraulics steering...a leaky internal seal or clogging can cause imbalance in the system and pull your car one side or not return fully to center...

edit: I just saw you also change steering fluids... maybe problem is related

This post has been edited by dwRK: Nov 24 2020, 10:44 PM
Oldskolboyz
post Nov 24 2020, 11:19 PM

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If Proton Wira.. just change steering rack to Koyo 4G91 one cost around Rm120 - RM150 now.. my 2001 Wira VDO also got same prob very slow return to center & sometime feel steering not at center even though drive on the straight & flat road/highway. After dismantle and found out rack gear tooth wear not evenly and cost pinion move without push/pull rack gear at the same time.. Solve those prob after change steering rack & cost me RM280 at that time (2013 or 2014).. About knocking sound I only heard when steering at the same position, some where between 12 to 1 o'clock & 11 to 12 o'clock.. other than that not heard any knocking sound..

This post has been edited by Oldskolboyz: Nov 24 2020, 11:33 PM
Steponlego
post Nov 27 2020, 10:36 PM

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Just replaced steering rack in my car. The steering always points slightly to the right when going straight. The easy way to tell if it's the steering rack is to wiggle the steering wheels, check for freeplay. You might hear a soft knock coming from the inside of the steering rack - provided that your steering rack bushing is holding it solidly.

My steering rack have no leaks. Rubber boots is clean, not torn. After cornering the steering wheel didn't quite return back to center, I have to turn it myself (only notices this after comparing the old steering rack with new china steering rack).

My mechanic guy greased the inner rack first, and then he told me to use the car like normal and see if it fixes the issue. After I use it for a week, the grease inside becomes black. So it's confirmed la something is wrong inside the steering rack, probably the gears inside was busted. It's a 13 years old Persona.


This post has been edited by Steponlego: Nov 28 2020, 11:19 AM
Ultra+
post Nov 28 2020, 11:24 AM

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Anyone can recommend an honest shop in PJ for alignment & balancing? Thx
Steponlego
post Dec 1 2020, 12:15 AM

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i'm trying to solve the same issue too, it seems like replacing the steering rack is only half of the solution.

fiddled around with the front brakes, found out that the brake caliper pin was seized on both sides. plus my left wheel bearing is busted too. the left rotor has gone bad.

in short, almost all front suspension part can cause slight off in alignment. at this point i'm replacing all the front suspension part. but since this is the first time in 12 years, maybe it wasn't so bad.
newhouseowner
post Dec 2 2020, 02:10 PM

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QUOTE(scorgio @ Nov 24 2020, 01:07 PM)
Some say the most experienced in the business.

Ah Hee Motors at Salak Selatan. RM40 for front only (1.8L sedan).
*
This is my trusted wheel alignment shop. All my car no issue when doing there thumbsup.gif
abubin
post Dec 2 2020, 03:29 PM

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Oh..BTW, when we go to shop and ask for wheel alignment, they only do wheel alignment? They won't do steering alignment? Or it's something that they do together?
Steponlego
post Dec 2 2020, 08:53 PM

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QUOTE(abubin @ Dec 2 2020, 03:29 PM)
Oh..BTW, when we go to shop and ask for wheel alignment, they only do wheel alignment? They won't do steering alignment? Or it's something that they do together?
*
Usually the steering wheel will not move. So nobody readjust it. Unless you specifically ask the technician to re-center you steering wheel because you take off the steering wheel for whatever reason typically after replacing steering rack. I just had my front wheel realign for RM30 plus RM5 for steering wheel recenter/adjust because the steering wheel is way off to the left even when the wheels are straight - this of course when the car is not moving.

But if the steering wheel is slightly off the any side when driving, chances are there are some other causes that you need to investigate...
zeng
post Dec 2 2020, 09:25 PM

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QUOTE(abubin @ Dec 2 2020, 03:29 PM)
Oh..BTW, when we go to shop and ask for wheel alignment, they only do wheel alignment? They won't do steering alignment? Or it's something that they do together?
*
At the initial stage of performing front (2) wheel alignment job , the steering wheel is always FIRST centred ,
prior to adjustment of camber and/or caster angles (which is often omitted by alignment shop) to be followed by toe angles adjustment at the tail end of the job .

Hence, centering of steering wheel is part and parcel of front wheel alignment job (whether or not front camber and/or caster angles are adjusted) and not separate apart .

This post has been edited by zeng: Dec 2 2020, 09:28 PM
abubin
post Dec 3 2020, 11:22 AM

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QUOTE(zeng @ Dec 2 2020, 09:25 PM)
At the initial stage of performing front (2) wheel alignment job , the steering wheel is always FIRST centred ,
prior to adjustment of camber and/or caster angles (which is often omitted by alignment shop) to be followed by toe angles adjustment at the tail end of the job .

Hence, centering of steering wheel is part and parcel of front wheel alignment job (whether or not front camber and/or caster angles are adjusted) and not separate apart .
*
Hmm...if I remember correctly, seems like some shops don't follow this. Maybe my memory is just bad but I do see certain shops not centering the steering or maybe I missed that part.

Even if they do, will they like ignore it when found steering base not aligned?
zeng
post Dec 3 2020, 01:30 PM

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During the middle of the wheel alignment job in progress , one has to be standing next to the driver side glass window looking downwards into driver seat and directly at steering wheel to see/check if the steering wheel is properly restrained .
Steponlego
post Dec 3 2020, 06:59 PM

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Hey OP, just sharing here. Finally my steering wheel is centered. Main problem was bad steering rack, left wheel bearing gone bad, left rotor warped and seized caliper pin on both sides of the front brakes. Now my Persona feels ok.

In hindsight, the steering rack was probably still good to use for a few more years, probably better to move from cheaper parts first - brakes and bearings, and then work your way up to the expensive part.
THE CLASS OF 13
post Dec 4 2020, 03:48 PM

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QUOTE(clockpulses @ Nov 24 2020, 06:50 PM)
Thank you for your replies. I want to update you what have i fixed/replaced

1. Absorber front and rear
2. Absorber bush front and rear
3. Absorber mount front and rear
4. Stabilizer link front and rear
5. Stabilizer bar bush
6. Steering rack bush
7. Front lower arm with bush and ball joint
8. Steering fluid
9. All 4 tyres

Car handling is solid, like new. But the problem is with the alignment,  which i suspect because one of the steering component (not the rack). Most probably the steering column(?)

When idle, turn abit the steering wheel to right feel nice and tight. But to the left,  abit loose. But no play, means when i move to left the tyre it's moving. So no issues with free play.

When i drive straight because it is loose abit on left side, the steering wheel go left and cause it to steer to the left without my input.  Seems to me it is not balance.

If engine is off,  turn left and right is steady and balanced. No loose

After left corner, the steering wont return to center at 12 oclock but instead , only return to between 11 and 12 oclock (11.30 oclock). This is nothing for short drives but it will be uncomfortable and tiring for long drives as ibhave to contantly adjust the wheel to center manually

Fyi, handling of the car is good,  no wobbling right and left like it used to. But the is aslight knocking sound on uneven road and after speed bump

I also dont think it is the steering rack, cause no fluid leak.

Am i right to suspect on the steering column?

Fyi, the steering system is hydraulic, not EPS
*
like I advice u previously it could be the original/adjustable camber nut bengkok or gave up already... bend knuckle and misalligned subframe also can caused the problem...lastly it could be the rack.. cos preve si famous with inconsistent steering like u said left and right doesn't feel the same. oops forgot it could be also the power steering pump..

Steponlego
post Dec 5 2020, 12:36 AM

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QUOTE(THE CLASS OF 13 @ Dec 4 2020, 03:48 PM)
like I advice u previously it could be the original/adjustable camber nut bengkok or gave up already... bend knuckle and misalligned subframe also can caused the problem...lastly it could be the rack.. cos preve si famous with inconsistent steering like u said left and right doesn't feel the same. oops forgot it could be also the power steering pump..
*
Knuckle can bend? I mean, how much force do you need to bend the knuckle?
THE CLASS OF 13
post Dec 5 2020, 08:37 PM

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QUOTE(Steponlego @ Dec 5 2020, 12:36 AM)
Knuckle can bend? I mean, how much force do you need to bend the knuckle?
*
can why cannot, happen to my flx before.....
zeng
post Jan 19 2021, 10:57 PM

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QUOTE(Steponlego @ Dec 3 2020, 06:59 PM)
Hey OP, just sharing here. Finally my steering wheel is centered. Main problem was bad steering rack, left wheel bearing gone bad, left rotor warped and seized caliper pin on both sides of the front brakes. Now my Persona feels ok.

In hindsight, the steering rack was probably still good to use for a few more years, probably better to move from cheaper parts first - brakes and bearings, and then work your way up to the expensive part.
*
The bold is after another subsequent or redo wheel alignment or caused by 'repairs' or other parts (rack,brake) replacement that followed after 'original' alignment ?



This post has been edited by zeng: Jan 19 2021, 11:04 PM
zeng
post Jan 19 2021, 11:05 PM

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QUOTE(clockpulses @ Nov 24 2020, 06:50 PM)
Thank you for your replies. I want to update you what have i fixed/replaced

1. Absorber front and rear
2. Absorber bush front and rear
3. Absorber mount front and rear
4. Stabilizer link front and rear
5. Stabilizer bar bush
6. Steering rack bush
7. Front lower arm with bush and ball joint
8. Steering fluid
9. All 4 tyres

Car handling is solid, like new. But the problem is with the alignment,  which i suspect because one of the steering component (not the rack). Most probably the steering column(?)

When idle, turn abit the steering wheel to right feel nice and tight. But to the left,  abit loose. But no play, means when i move to left the tyre it's moving. So no issues with free play.

When i drive straight because it is loose abit on left side, the steering wheel go left and cause it to steer to the left without my input.  Seems to me it is not balance.

If engine is off,  turn left and right is steady and balanced. No loose

After left corner, the steering wont return to center at 12 oclock but instead , only return to between 11 and 12 oclock (11.30 oclock). This is nothing for short drives but it will be uncomfortable and tiring for long drives as ibhave to contantly adjust the wheel to center manually

Fyi, handling of the car is good,  no wobbling right and left like it used to. But the is aslight knocking sound on uneven road and after speed bump

I also dont think it is the steering rack, cause no fluid leak.

Am i right to suspect on the steering column?

Fyi, the steering system is hydraulic, not EPS
*
My first attempt at alignment had the steering wheel properly centred , but car pulling left when hands off the steering wheel despite of camber and toe angles were in the green zone .

A subsequent redo has improved the pulling left problem , but the steering wheel is senget slightly to the Right when driving straight ahead . sweat.gif

This post has been edited by zeng: Jan 19 2021, 11:08 PM
Steponlego
post Jan 19 2021, 11:10 PM

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QUOTE(zeng @ Jan 19 2021, 10:57 PM)
The bold is after another subsequent or redo wheel alignment or caused by 'repairs' or other parts (rack,brake) replacement  that  followed after 'original' alignment ?

My first alignment had the steering wheel properly centred , but car pulling left when hands off the wheel  .

A subsequent redo has improved the pulling left problem , but the steering  wheel is senget slightly to the Right when driving straight ahead .
*
Did alignment many times, the steering wheel always points slightly to right. I have faith in the technician doing the alignment, he seems to be quite proud and thorough with his work. It goes like this: i get some part replace>go to alignment>replace another part>do another alignment.

Anyway, the steering rack is actually not the culprit. It was a bad front wheel bearings on both sides. Had to diagnose it myself because the bearings does not show usual bearing problem (wheel freeplay and grinding noise) and most workshop prefer not to spend much time on it. The only symptoms I experience is occasional clinking noise coming from the brake pad clips and rhythmic thumping noise when cornering to one side.
TSclockpulses
post Jan 19 2021, 11:17 PM

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QUOTE(Steponlego @ Jan 19 2021, 11:10 PM)
Did alignment many times, the steering wheel always points slightly to right. I have faith in the technician doing the alignment, he seems to be quite proud and thorough with his work. It goes like this: i get some part replace>go to alignment>replace another part>do another alignment.

Anyway, the steering rack is actually not the culprit. It was a bad front wheel bearings on both sides. Had to diagnose it myself because the bearings does not show usual bearing problem (wheel freeplay and grinding noise) and most workshop prefer not to spend much time on it. The only symptoms I experience is occasional clinking noise coming from the brake pad clips and rhythmic thumping noise when cornering to one side.
*
The bolder part exactly like my situation lol

So your bearing produce any humming sound at high speed?

I got this kruk krak sound on left side on uneven road and kuk soubd from right side after bump, both from front, don't think it is steering rack too, either the bearing or the brake pad clip or both. Weird thing is my last workshop can't find or the source of the issue, they said not bearing either. Also no humming sound at high speed, or maybe got lah but very minor and cannot be heard

Anyway no budget allocated yet for 2021 lol, maybe in few months time. I'm gonna change both the bearing and check the brake caliper area

This post has been edited by clockpulses: Jan 19 2021, 11:20 PM

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