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 Steering Wheel Alignment not Wheel Alignment

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zeng
post Nov 23 2020, 08:06 PM

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Caveat : I am no fan of Wheel Alignment and hence do not know the 'ins and outs' of Wheel Alignment through 'lack of practice in local context' .

However as I understood it , the steering wheel alignment you referred to here is actually a basic and fundamental part of vehicle Wheel Alignment often mentioned in automotive world .

If the wheel alignment shop providing such service to you did not first 'centred' and 'locked' the steering wheel in a centre position prior to reading computer screen readouts and make adjustments of alignment angle(s) ........................
then it is time for you to walk away and never to return to this sub-standard wheel alignment shop .

However if the shop has properly 'centred' the steering wheel position prior to subsequent components of wheel alignment adjustment jobs , then computer screenshots before AND after the alignment job is necessary for any third party like us to comment or assess whether the alignment job was properly carried out or otherwise .

Besides , the experience and judgement of the guys doing the alignment job proper is sometimes critical to the 'success' too .

Have you got any latest alignment screenshots to share here for third party assessment on lowyat ?

This post has been edited by zeng: Nov 23 2020, 08:10 PM
zeng
post Nov 24 2020, 02:24 PM

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QUOTE(scorgio @ Nov 24 2020, 01:07 PM)
Some say the most experienced in the business.

Ah Hee Motors at Salak Selatan. RM40 for front only (1.8L sedan).
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For front axle toe-in toe-out only , I suppose ?
How about camber adjustment labour cost , any idea ?


Edit: I think I heard about this guy a long long time ago .

This post has been edited by zeng: Nov 24 2020, 02:26 PM
zeng
post Nov 24 2020, 08:18 PM

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QUOTE(clockpulses @ Nov 24 2020, 06:50 PM)
When i drive straight because it is loose abit on left side, the steering wheel go left and cause it to steer to the left without my input. Seems to me it is not balance.

......................................................................

After left corner, the steering wont return to center at 12 oclock but instead , only return to between 11 and 12 oclock (11.30 oclock). This is nothing for short drives but it will be uncomfortable and tiring for long drives as ibhave to contantly adjust the wheel to center manually

.........................................................................
But the is aslight knocking sound on uneven road and after speed bump


In the absence of computer readouts , it is most likely wheel alignment related IMHO .

Any further speculation on (mis)alignment could be running wild , without a computer screenshot .

In the unlikely event that the alignment were properly and professionally done , it could be tyre related .......

but heck , you have installed 4 brand new tyres !

Btw, what is the car model we are talking about here ??

Note : Oops, Proton . Which species ?


QUOTE
Am i right to suspect on the steering column?

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No, I don't think so .


Edit : Besides front axle toe adjustments , any other angle alignments ?
Alternatively , how much was the total charges for the alignment job ?

This post has been edited by zeng: Nov 24 2020, 08:35 PM
zeng
post Dec 2 2020, 09:25 PM

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QUOTE(abubin @ Dec 2 2020, 03:29 PM)
Oh..BTW, when we go to shop and ask for wheel alignment, they only do wheel alignment? They won't do steering alignment? Or it's something that they do together?
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At the initial stage of performing front (2) wheel alignment job , the steering wheel is always FIRST centred ,
prior to adjustment of camber and/or caster angles (which is often omitted by alignment shop) to be followed by toe angles adjustment at the tail end of the job .

Hence, centering of steering wheel is part and parcel of front wheel alignment job (whether or not front camber and/or caster angles are adjusted) and not separate apart .

This post has been edited by zeng: Dec 2 2020, 09:28 PM
zeng
post Dec 3 2020, 01:30 PM

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During the middle of the wheel alignment job in progress , one has to be standing next to the driver side glass window looking downwards into driver seat and directly at steering wheel to see/check if the steering wheel is properly restrained .
zeng
post Jan 19 2021, 10:57 PM

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QUOTE(Steponlego @ Dec 3 2020, 06:59 PM)
Hey OP, just sharing here. Finally my steering wheel is centered. Main problem was bad steering rack, left wheel bearing gone bad, left rotor warped and seized caliper pin on both sides of the front brakes. Now my Persona feels ok.

In hindsight, the steering rack was probably still good to use for a few more years, probably better to move from cheaper parts first - brakes and bearings, and then work your way up to the expensive part.
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The bold is after another subsequent or redo wheel alignment or caused by 'repairs' or other parts (rack,brake) replacement that followed after 'original' alignment ?



This post has been edited by zeng: Jan 19 2021, 11:04 PM
zeng
post Jan 19 2021, 11:05 PM

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QUOTE(clockpulses @ Nov 24 2020, 06:50 PM)
Thank you for your replies. I want to update you what have i fixed/replaced

1. Absorber front and rear
2. Absorber bush front and rear
3. Absorber mount front and rear
4. Stabilizer link front and rear
5. Stabilizer bar bush
6. Steering rack bush
7. Front lower arm with bush and ball joint
8. Steering fluid
9. All 4 tyres

Car handling is solid, like new. But the problem is with the alignment,  which i suspect because one of the steering component (not the rack). Most probably the steering column(?)

When idle, turn abit the steering wheel to right feel nice and tight. But to the left,  abit loose. But no play, means when i move to left the tyre it's moving. So no issues with free play.

When i drive straight because it is loose abit on left side, the steering wheel go left and cause it to steer to the left without my input.  Seems to me it is not balance.

If engine is off,  turn left and right is steady and balanced. No loose

After left corner, the steering wont return to center at 12 oclock but instead , only return to between 11 and 12 oclock (11.30 oclock). This is nothing for short drives but it will be uncomfortable and tiring for long drives as ibhave to contantly adjust the wheel to center manually

Fyi, handling of the car is good,  no wobbling right and left like it used to. But the is aslight knocking sound on uneven road and after speed bump

I also dont think it is the steering rack, cause no fluid leak.

Am i right to suspect on the steering column?

Fyi, the steering system is hydraulic, not EPS
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My first attempt at alignment had the steering wheel properly centred , but car pulling left when hands off the steering wheel despite of camber and toe angles were in the green zone .

A subsequent redo has improved the pulling left problem , but the steering wheel is senget slightly to the Right when driving straight ahead . sweat.gif

This post has been edited by zeng: Jan 19 2021, 11:08 PM
zeng
post Jan 19 2021, 11:21 PM

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QUOTE(abubin @ Dec 3 2020, 11:22 AM)
Hmm...if I remember correctly, seems like some shops don't follow this. Maybe my memory is just bad but I do see certain shops not centering the steering or maybe I missed that part.

Even if they do, will they like ignore it when found steering base not aligned?
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On centering or locking the steering wheel as part of wheel alignment procedure ...
Youtube at 12.03 .....

This post has been edited by zeng: Jan 19 2021, 11:22 PM
zeng
post Jan 20 2021, 01:00 PM

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QUOTE(Steponlego @ Jan 19 2021, 11:10 PM)
Did alignment many times, the steering wheel always points slightly to right. I have faith in the technician doing the alignment, he seems to be quite proud and thorough with his work. It goes like this: i get some part replace>go to alignment>replace another part>do another alignment.

Anyway, the steering rack is actually not the culprit. It was a bad front wheel bearings on both sides. Had to diagnose it myself because the bearings does not show usual bearing problem (wheel freeplay and grinding noise) and most workshop prefer not to spend much time on it. The only symptoms I experience is occasional clinking noise coming from the brake pad clips and rhythmic thumping noise when cornering to one side.
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Not trying to be argumentative here , I beg to differ that the front wheel bearing sets on both sides were bad (as in bold above) and it causes the steering wheel pointing right previously . But heck you were driving the car , who knows you could be right .

I would speculate the steering wheel pointing right problem was resolved not by the supposed bearings replacement on both sides per se , but mainly by the latest and last wheel alignment job in 'correcting' the front camber and toe angles . It could have been solely resolved by the optional/additional Rear wheel alignment , if such option was carried out in your case in point .

Just as my current steering wheel pointing right problem could not be resolved by replacement of parts (such as bearings, brakes,steering column etc) but by another more thorough/comprehensive redo on front wheel alignment ,IMO .

Note:I suppose your Persona rear wheels are adjustable , IDK .

This post has been edited by zeng: Jan 20 2021, 01:08 PM
zeng
post Jan 20 2021, 07:00 PM

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QUOTE(Steponlego @ Jan 20 2021, 02:21 PM)
I believe the rear alignment has always been okay after first alignment job. The tire shop guy would never let go an opportunity to charge me extra. First alignment job he charge RM50 for front and rear, subsequent alignment after that he charge RM30 for front only. I used to think that his alignment job was crappy, until I go to other alignment shop.

The latest and last alignment job after front bearing replacement the guy did front angle camber adjustment.

But yeah, I only suspect it was a bad bearing because that's the last thing I can replace on my front end - now everything on my front suspension is brand new. Figured that the wobbly wheels from bad bearings might cause the steering wheel not centered when driving, but the angle measurement on the alignment machine all within spec.
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Front and Rear alignment charges at RM50 , and sort of fully resolve your issue ...... ? That's a very good price to pay . Do you mind sharing the location of the alignment shop ?

I too paid RM30 for Front Camber and Toe angles adjustment , but this is outside Klang Valley where I happen to pass by visiting relatives .

This post has been edited by zeng: Jan 20 2021, 07:01 PM
zeng
post Jan 21 2021, 02:40 PM

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QUOTE(Steponlego @ Jan 20 2021, 08:53 PM)
Close to Rm2k actually. I literally had all front suspension parts replaced over the span of 3 months. The right bearings was the last thing I replaced. Left bearings 2nd last. Only noticed right bearings also bad when noise issue and alignment still persists. I throw parts at the problem until it fixed.

https://goo.gl/maps/wKtRsFEev6yyV9yh6

just an inconspicuous kampung tire shop. the boss there is very thorough with his job. tried 3 other shop before this, he's the only shop that make sure the tire pressure is right before doing anything. do ask him to check for steering wheel centered or not, last time he charged me extra RM10 for adjusting the steering wheels after steering rack replacement.
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Thank you very much, Sir for the location map . notworthy.gif

Having done the repeat alignment job but the pulling left problem remains not fully resolved though its severity has lessened or improved , and it came out with a 'new' found problem of steering wheel pointing Right now whilst driving straight ahead (which was pointing straight before current repeat job) rclxub.gif .........
as typical of most alignment works , I'm quite disappointed with the current alignment shop .

However I will continue monitoring to see if my current 'problems' persists and continues on ( short of swapping tyres between Left and Right ) , meanwhile I am shopping around for a good and reliable wheel alignment shop should the need arises .

Your link above will surely be one of my considerations in times to come .

Btw, I spent RM1750 on suspension parts replacement about a month ago just before and prior to the wheel alignment job in question . sad.gif

This post has been edited by zeng: Jan 21 2021, 02:44 PM
zeng
post Jan 22 2021, 09:04 AM

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QUOTE(speedy3210 @ Jan 21 2021, 03:36 PM)
Dats why I chose to let the expert (wheel alignment guy) work his mojo on my cars. I mean he is supposed to be doing this job >9hours a day and 6days a week, and he would have figured out things we don't.

I only need to drive my car to my wheel alignment guy, sit there and chat with him while he works on my car, pay and then bid adieu. I have always treat the process as a friend meetup since more than 15yrs ago.

Not sure if you can travel to his place during this MCO period as there maybe roadblocks along the way.
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Really envious of your long time pleasant experience with real competent alignment guys ..... which ,unfortunately I don't have one for decades not years .

No, I won't be visiting this place intro'ed by @Steponlego yet under current MCO as I'm assessing current predicaments/frustration and see how it goes .

This time round I wish to attempt seeking out the service of one or several socalled alignment 'experts' hoping that my long time unfavourable 'misconceptions' (or otherwise ?) against the wheel alignment industry are drastically altered ..... for good .

This post has been edited by zeng: Jan 22 2021, 09:07 AM

 

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