u use so many bombastic words. It looks like u r trying too hard

How am I indifferent or outright hostile to anything positive about the project??? Just because I don't support your imagination I am suddenly negative about the project??

I have always been a staunch supporter of facts and evidence... I'm also OK with speculation so long that it is within reasonable means...

But to support something that is not even remotely credible... sorry but i cannot do that... I won't promote false information here...

Even for the negative points I've raised... it will always be supported by reliable sources...

For instance... I've quoted MBPJ plan as evidence that there are plans to develop low cost residential as a possibility that the area will become severely dense...

Discussion should always be based on reliable sources such as the municipal published documents , the developers newsfeed and reputable news article... not freaking gut feelings or imagination...

when2meets2boy

Just in case you think I am bias against this property...

My earlier posts... early this year...

I've also mentioned about the positives of this project...

for example... I've talked about the revival of the sizable empire city mall... which is good for the residence

I've also talked about the affordable price.... @just around 700k I think you could get >1k sqf 3-4 bedroom units... there are not many new projects located in PJ area that you could purchase @ such a price these days..

This post has been edited by holypredator: Oct 15 2021, 06:42 PM

Very Trumpian reply. When faced with insurmountable challenges, mock, insult and deflect

Nah, I disagree. Of course you're entitled to your opinions, however infantile it is. If you ask me, I come to think it's just my fluency and better command of the language.

其实如果你觉得我用英文你太难消化， 不如我们转用华文好吗？ 是否这比较适合你？ 沟通是需要了解才行。 我来帮帮你吧？

Akan tetapi, jika bahasa inggeris atau bahasa cina tidak sesuai untuk membantu kefahaman anda, kita juga boleh guna Bahasa Malaysia. Kamu hanya perlu beritahu saya bahasa yang lebih sesuai bagi anda

This post has been edited by when2meets2boy: Oct 15 2021, 06:56 PM

I've elaborated on this in more than once in our multiple exchanges and the post you're replying to. Need I say more?

All the above points you're making - I'll sum up to one conclusion for you McNamara fallacy

It doesn't convince me (that you're a staunch supporter of facts and evidence), because of the simple fact that you make big claims without even doing a site recce. Own up to this.

No one is asking for your support. Nor did I claim that EXSIM will build something at the rock face. Get your head around this simple thought bottleneck

I was and have been merely pointing out the fact you're indulging in speculation when you accuse others of speculation

Do we actually need to list down the totality of your posts here. I invite you to set up a poll on this thread and ask the audiences here if they think you have a negative bias or not

Lest you accuse me of not being impartial, you should run this experiment. Discover the facts though the poll. Use evidence to settle the question .example (Ask thread members, do you think I come across as negatively biased against this project?)

I don't think you have a better command of the language when you can't fulfill the main objective of being fluent in a language... which is to communicate effectively...

Some of the phrases/expressions that you've used doesn't make sense...

and of course... everyone who reads your posts can tell that you are trying real hard to show off your vocabulary skills....

it is fine if you understand what the words mean and knows how to use it in a proper context but the problem is... some of the words you have used just don't fit into the statements that you are conveying..

for example... "very trumpian reply"... what does property talk or what we are discussing here got to do with supporting donald trump and his political views??

also... making up your own words certainly doesn't help... "mantra-ing"??? mantra is a noun... don't turn it into a verb and expect people to know what your made-up word means..

This post has been edited by holypredator: Oct 15 2021, 07:01 PM

You're entitled to your opinion..and there was no made up words, it's call coining terms, it's a form of figurative speech

That's why there is dash in between mantra and IMG.. you must have been living under a coconut if you haven't seen such coining of terms before. If you can understand what's a mantra and you already understand the context of that sentence.. I've already succeeded in the communication

I'll do one better for you, if you can't stand quirks in modern English, then just replace mantra-ing with "argument by repetition"

As for Trumpian.... It really shows you have no knowledge of recent popular events. Just Google it 😂😂😂😂😂 do the homework, find out what Trumpian is meant to imply. Hint* it's used as an adjective in the context of my sentence

This post has been edited by when2meets2boy: Oct 15 2021, 07:15 PM

https://www.thestar.com.my/business/busines...323m-debt-notes

EXSIM have to give a big thank you to D’Quince Residences and D’Vervain Residences buyers. Sales must be really good. They manage to "monetize" the sales performance of these two to convince UOB to supply them more funds (loans)

Buyers should ask for some "rewards" in return


On a more serious note, this piece of information highlights some of the underlying motivations that can be running EXSIMs decision moving forward. If the next trache of loans also have similar terms.

It partially explains the price point and positioning of DVervain and DQuince

If I recall correctly the UOB loan is for DCP and EXSIM'S commitments for Empire City..so we know there is cash for the time being

This post has been edited by when2meets2boy: Oct 15 2021, 07:40 PM

U r incoherent. What is the point u r trying to make.

DCP is a good and fantastic project?

Let me just point out one small detail most ppl probably dont realize. DCP has launched 6 or 7 projects in 3 years. All of them r moving at the same time.

In the last 6 to 12 months. Steel prices have quadrupled.

I hope exsim priced their products appropriately. Otherwise this will be empire city 2. Funny as it was the original name.

If u think ur wall of diarrhea is insurmountable, u r very wrong.

Its gross, but its just annoying

Anyone with a certain amount of fluency can see u r talking rubbish

This post has been edited by flight: Oct 15 2021, 08:29 PM

Your lack of attention to detail is really a shame. Fact is, not even once do I ever mention DCP is all good or fantastic. You need to be more fastidious with facts when making up oft statements about others, you can't just because you feel like it. If you intend to make statement, at least back up your statements with reality.

If you ask for my opinion on their launch speed launch pattern☝️Look at the sukuk/UOB terms and conditions, it's easy to see where the price point, rush to build, rush to sell is coming from. They need the cash flow, they got their cash flow. Which is probably a lesson they learned from Mammoth. But I would opine that EXSIM wouldn't have enough motivatuons to rush the launch of commercial phases, given the current economic climate, the oversupply in the vicinity, and the ROI is not as immediate as an affordably priced residential unit.

They are property developer first, so it make sense that cash flow, build, launch, sell, monetize their sales prowess, borrow, build, launch, sell, repeat

As for - steel prices are definitely going to have a knock on effect, but then again it affects all developers across the board. How much risk exposure would this translate to to EXSIM, we don't know what we don't know. Hard to gauge when Winds an whispers of the steel price rise has been blowing since late 2020, it would be rather stupid if the developers don't hedge for this, especially for developers like EXSIM that have had their current expansion plans hatched years ago. We will just have to monitor the news if any developers get into trouble .

Another market to watch is a developer's cash flow.

Haha, I would I reckon the potency of my reasoning and elaboration is insurmountable by the likes of you.

Otherwise why would you find it annoying? I posit it's because there is little to ni way you can respond to my writings. Hence, you went the Trump route. Lazy but understandable. I feel you.

So say the person who have zero elaboration while making bold proclamations about others

Remember the days when Najib and UMNO proclaims " The Silent Majority agree with us". ... Yeah that's how your statement feels like

It not only mirror Najib and UMNO, it is also classic Trump.

Delusions of grandeur. Stop relating completely unrelated events.


This project is far from being the number 1 project around. The way u r arguing it is as if it can do no wrong.

I didnt spend anytime reading ur posts btw, its complete gibberish. I suspect most ppl wouldnt.

How is the empire mall doing there? Being one of the selling point, hope it could be revived well

Hahahaha. You're really a comedy. Why a comedy? I find you've just shot your own foot. It's funny and embarrassing. I'll elaborate.

We now have a fair idea why you find my posts and reasonings insurmountable. You admit you don't spend time reading any of my posts, then it's perfectly normal for you not to get it. Because you've never read it. It not even that my reasonings are insurmountable, it's unfathomable that you would understand my posts - you've never read it

Oh boy, this is at another level. At least Predator was reading but just aren't fastidious enough. I was right when I opined that, when faced with persons of your level (calibre), there's only so much we can expect

So much for your opinions about me... Big words used in accusation, I.e. delusions, grandeur, I can do no wrong, gibberish.... It's all empty words, ....

Read and understand false dichotomy. Because you're full of it. The world is not black or white. A project is not only good or bad. It's about weighing upsides and downsides and then matching it to your needs, wants and risk calculations

Positive opinions doesn't in any mean it's a "number one project". That's a false dichotomy you continue to peddle in your mind. And certainly I have not ever make any claim that I can do no wrong. It's all in your mind.

This statement of yours, , is aptly directed at Predator instead IMHO. She/he has shown this multiple times throughout this forum and throughout my exchanges with her/him.

You can continue embarrassing yourself if you wish. But if you don't have anything substantive to add. You're wasting all our time. My advice, learn to back up your strong claims or accusations with equally potent elaboration, or else people will soon learn to not take you seriously, regardless if you have made one or more points in the past that are valid. I'll say it, I've found some of your points and opinions valid.

You've made valid points in the past. But at this juncture, seeing so much infantile outburst from you. I've found you wanting, to say the very least. And insufferable.

This post has been edited by when2meets2boy: Oct 17 2021, 12:42 AM

I'll start my views with, we don't know what we don't know, but we can extrapolate from what we see and what we hear

Last we read before the pandemic, the mall was already in dire straits. Losing tenants, incomplete construction, even the main attraction - the ice rink was reported to be in terrible state

I would expect the pandemic to "kill off" much of what tenant left

But on the flip side, we know that Empire City Mall "is too big to fail" for EXSIM. It's also tied to the EXSIM JV, so they would have to deliver. It also helps that DCP value proposition is tied to ECM as the value proposition (selling point). So it's mission #1 for EXSIM to revive it

What we do know. DASH is still ongoing. Sky deck/Sky garden connecting ECM to DCP is being constructed. There is also a cash infusion for ECM with "rubber glove windfall money" being added to the revive ECM JV (Refer to page 20-21 of this thread, the news article is there).

We also know EXSIM successfully gotten its second tranche of loans from UOB/sukuk providers by "monetizing" their sales success for phase 1,2,3 of DCP. (Refer to news article in page 22-23)

So,in my opinion. ECM is dead now.
But there are current positive indicators that it will be revived. Just keep monitoring.

I mean what else in Empire City can be salvaged to revive the veneer - the lowest hanging fruit is ECM. So it will likely be the first component of Empire City to be revived.

A few posts up @flight brought up the issue if "expensive steel", which is a significant headwind since late 2020. And I added an opinion that what we need to watch as an indicator (if EXSIM can weather the storm) will be to watch it's cashflow.

I feel I need to elaborate. So it warrant a quick discussion and overview of the "expensive steel" situation, the undercurrents and the future predictions

This article give a concise and easily readable piece for us to explore the topic.

EdgeProp.my: Would the rising cost of construction materials lead to house price hike?.
https://www.edgeprop.my/content/1857228/wou...ouse-price-hike

A few salient points mentioned in the article IMO.
1. the rise in steel price is a direct consequence of the pandemic way back in 2020.
2. however the key reasons for this is logistics, shutdown of steel mills during lockdowns, low demand due to stop in construction/industry during the pandemic (steel mills have to reduce supply to adjust), and then the spike in demand due to economic reopening in China.
3. Hence the article posits that with normalizing economies, supply, demand post 2021, steel price should normalize
4. The coal crunch in China recently should also throw another spanner into 2021 Q4 steel supply, since China is rationing coal, impacting steel mills.
5. Another upside is Malaysia has its own steel mills, and iron ore supply has no issues. In fact, recently, there is a drive by the steel production "guild" of Malaysia to secure tariffs to foreign steel. Which means the guild meants to fulfill the local demand and the government wants to encourage this so that Malaysia can be self sufficient. It's complex,. but price and supply is expected to normalize. The tariffs mentioned here are abour renewal of existing lapsing tariff, so there's nothing new here to "screw" steel price.

Finally, that out if the way. Now why I think watching EXSIM's cash flow is a good indicator of the health of DCP

First clue, the recent relevation that EXSIM's model for financing and securing the loans is based on how well they sell the project. Hence, I would posit that despite the steel price pressures that is predicted to raise property prices, EXSIM would have to keep their launches at an attractive price point to continue to monetize sales records to get more loans

Second clue. Most of the DCP ongoing phases and also the plan to revive ECM, build Mossas, and contruct "niceties" such as skydeck/sky garden/road connectivity - ALL are hatched before 2020-2021. If we follow standard QS and construction best practices, steel price would have been priced in and supply hedged to allow construction to continue unabated. In short, the industry don't buy steel on Monday to construct on Friday. So, I reckon current DCP phases should be cushioned. But we don't know what we don't know unless we have a spy inside EXSIM

Which leads me to third point. Cash flow. Regardless of whether EXSIM planned for the expensive steel or not, in the worse case scenario, to make sure it's business as usual, you will have to buy steel, even if it's priced more. This is when cashflow is key. Watch EXSIM's cashflow

Cashflow is how MAMMOTH Empire got killed, dooming Empire City and Empire Residence. EXSIM's financing strategic plans seems to indicate they don't want to repeat MAMMOTH EMPIRE'S mistake

And in extension, watch how EXSIM's creditors view the health of EXSIM. I.e. if UOB suddenly talks bad of EXSIM, or it fails to secure the third tranche, then red flags!!!!

Then there can also be a scenario that EXSIM cut corners. Of course other commentators have pointed this out. You pay peanuts you get monkeys. So don't have overexpectations. Keep your expectations to what is promised in your S&P and official marketing material (Like what Predator says)

I would think EXSIM will not be stupid to deliver below expectations (below what's promised in S&P)

Main reason. DCP is not only phase 1,2,3,4 it's more. Tearing up its reputation would repeat Mammoth's mistake. What's the point of taking up all the risks to invest into a JV to fix Empire City and make money with DCP if EXSIM repeats Mammoth Empire's Archilles heel.? Nothing to gain cutting corners. They will likely built to spec (S&P, also like others have said, D series spec)

Oversupply of residential is the key headwind faced by EXSIM, so it's is likely they will keep churning out Residential phases before "FOMO investors" wise up.

Shouldn't becomr a problem for buy to stay buyers since they've priced in their affordability, the property's value proposition and their needs. You won't get this price in mature PJ for the entry level offerings. Like Predator said, don't rush to buy based on pretenses. Read the S&P before you sign.

In the short to middle term, If EXSIM wants to keep up the momentum, they'll have to add more value proposition besides the ECM and the offices. They will need new value propositions to add value against the competition,

so I am optimistic that before they launch DCP commercial phases, they will have to do something to freshen their marketing and add new snazzy value propositions. I

IMO, if they don't do this, how do they differentiate DCP commercial Vs Empire City commercial..these two will be direct competitors and the fact is EXSIM can't earn much to anything at all from EC commercial phases that is already built and sold.

It could be new snazzy attractions at ECM or maybe something at the Rock face (hahaha I expect Predator will be incensed by this "imagination")

My 2 cents with some casual careful analysis of what's available in the public domain. Read the articles. Read my reasonings. Critically analyse them. Would like to hear your own opinions and analysis. But don't do empty naysaying that gives strong opinions but provides no elaboration....

This post has been edited by when2meets2boy: Oct 17 2021, 01:52 AM