Pro-moderation group G25 has clarified their stand on the laws against apostasy and the Department of Islamic Development Malaysia (Jakim), following criticisms by several quarters.

On Saturday, G25 had released a report — Administration of Matters Pertaining to Islam — where they spoke out against apostasy laws, saying that a Muslim's decision to leave Islam was between that person and God.

“On apostasy, we wish to state categorically that G25 does not condone nor encourage Muslims to leave Islam," the group said in a statement today.

“On the contrary, we believe apostasy is a major sin in Islam and Muslims should remain faithful to the religion both in their private as well as their public life.

“However, if they insist, and especially if they are recent converts, they should be given the right to do so as the constitution guarantees the freedom of worship not only to non-Muslims but to all Malaysians.”

They pointed out that other Muslim countries, such as Morocco, do not make apostasy a criminal offence because of the contextual interpretation of murtad (apostasy).

G25 said during the time of Prophet Muhammad, apostasy was a punishable offence because there were Muslims who became traitors by deserting to the enemy to fight against him and the Islamic nation-state.

“Thus, (at that time) it was a matter of politics and not a religious doctrine," G25 said.

“Apostasy cum treachery, as opposed to apostasy per se, was then treated as high treason and considered right to make it punishable by death.

“According to the Moroccan religious authorities, this justification no longer applies in modern times,” G25 said.

In their Jan 11 report, the group had also questioned the constitutional validity of the National Council of Islamic Affairs (MKI) and Jakim.

https://www.malaysiakini.com/news/507363

Why throw ur ticket to syurga. Gilerkah

let it be official je......
no need hide

because contrary to Eric Clapton,
there's tears in heaven

lol. since long time ago, cakap tak serupa bikin.

why don't you all put civil court higher than syariah court. then only talk la.

else sembang kencang je

Can ke??

I agree. Some people are clearly sinners but they're forced to be identified as Muslim, an as such they're destroying the image of Muslims. Just let them renounce it and be an atheist.

So what's the penalty of apostasy in malaysia

In Maressia, if melei kick out of melei.
If non, then nothing happen. Just a lot of media coverage for no reasons.

People have converted officially out of Islam in Maressia before.
Just not widely publicised and agnostic/atheist meleis afraid to speak out, while religious ones behave like any other religious redneck from any other part of the world

Cibai u make my bidadari angry later she punish you

In Indonesia, also no problem to convert out.

But here, how can? Talk only lah.....

Even people no pakai tudung already making an issue out of it by the holier than thou kind, you think it will EVER happen? Not even in 100 years here.

If they say can.... Usually its a trap.

trap? like how? they will put u in jail?

Yes. Another thread untuk golongan anti Islam berpesta.

Bravo TS.

How is asking our Muslims friends to have freedom in religion anti-Islam?

All talk kok jeeerr lah

once pipu smarting up and start leaving for real


Kek

kenot kenot
later all the ah beng
go chase fatimah
amoi how ?

Where? Just read the post lah. Anyway, carry on. Freedom of speach and freedom to insukt no longer have amy clear line so go for it.

wow!



This post has been edited by ikankering: Jan 16 2020, 10:17 PM

U like, u folo.
U don like, u stil mus folo.

Where got fair like dis?

so i can marry awek tetek besar now without converting?

Maybe yor son or grandson time can la.

Even if the awek tetek besar willing and all pass all the super hard road block

U show off the awek tetek besar kat pasar malam

All red eye death stare at you

Then one day ur name will apear in the obituary news

Kek

Yes can today if you marry outside of Malaysia in any of the hundreds of countries with civil marriage.

No, everyone at pasar malam will congratulate and ask "How did you embrace Islam?"

Here if someone lost faith in Islam, it is best to just keep quiet, nobody need to know u no longer pray 5 times a day, don't fast, pay zakat, no TH account nor any intention to go haji.

To come out, announce aloud you murtad is just asking for talibans to come harrass you, halalkan your blood.

But y Malaysia care

Jeng jeng jeng

In Malaysia, Islam has been politicized. Simple as that.

That's only if they want to be atheist. Problem comes when they want to join other sec. Its not true believes if u keep it hidden.

This.

It is amusing how religion forcing faith to someone who don’t believe. In the end they end up portraying a picture not like what religion suppose to look like.

Now now don't get confused. It's not the faith. It's the system that tries to police the faith. Some countries actually allow out.

It's more than that. It's so important to certain quarters that two people are missing today and never will be seen alive again.

While the murderers of these two people are obviously walking free and protected by these certain quarters. In the government (or shadow government....whatever that is).

It's that serious.

This post has been edited by Hobbez: Jan 16 2020, 09:53 PM

time to clap and have fun....i think some in PH really need to get hold on something fast or things will become hard and hard later on...and its not Thanos who need to do that...

inb4 syiah, geng maszlee

This post has been edited by kurangak: Jan 16 2020, 09:53 PM

Yeah i know. What i find funny is that the authority in Malaysia is trying to force people to believe what they don’t believe.

Actually even in Quran already mention, “to you is what you believe, to me is what i believe”

So why do they still want to force religion (and only their version of religion specifically) onto others?

Ma shili shite ke? Sekejap syiah, skejap salafi, skejap wahabi, mana satu ni?

ntah... dia mcm2 kena tuduh kan? kesian nobody wants him

Something something takde paksa

This is correct. You don’t need to announce to the world.

Look at gay politician in Malaysia. They don’t go and announce it to the world. They just live their life and secretly do their gay activity and the appears normal. No taliban would be suspicious if you act normal.

Reminds me of certain someone who swore on u know what to get away...... Which astonishingly, yet not that surprisingly, actually got away with it, lol. In Middle East, I think that guy already burn at the stake.

pandai quote. belajar mana? took Pend Syariah Islamiah ke masa upper form?

tak kesah mesilis lagi penting

Not all are muslim by heart....nama je....but in fact they are not...

Let thw ppl choose what they wan...rather than forcing some1 and thye are tarnishing the name

Agama kena belajar kat sekolah je ke? Lepas sekolah tak boleh ke?

Kalau mengaku islam kena la paham isi Quran. Jangan baca bahasa arab je tak paham macam org kebanyakan.

Mcm mengaku malaysian tapi tak reti cakap bahasa malaysia

And when comes to zakar naik quoting bible, boooleeeeh.

Instead it's your own reply that creates more resentment. Bravo.

Sikit Sikit anti. Why your mindset is like that?

This post has been edited by Blofeld: Jan 16 2020, 10:14 PM

malaysia law suck. people have to migrate just to change religion.

inb4 tak sukak keluar

inb4 tak sukak keluar

This only works if you don't have moral police and busybody taliban around you.

If someone who is Muslim by default never fast, never go masjid, never haji how long you think it will take for him to get reported by busybody taliban or get caught by moral police?

By that point they are just living a secret double life with double identity and no one wants to do that just because they don't believe in the same god.

Easy solution. Just don’t befriended a taliban.

Has any Malay ever been hanged for committing apostasy?

those people always want to be friend with you. same like those christian evangelist.
they say want to be friends blah blah then hey please come to our church.

I think anyone who wants out would not have lived in kelantan and terengganu, lol.

I only have taliban acquaintances never had taliban friends before. I guess it’s true that birds of feather flock together.

Could one state decide that there is no penalty for apostasy, and create a smoother process for leaving islam? Since religion is a matter for the states it should be possible right?

Wow kesian so many religion riders butthurt that I point out hypocrisy triggered to abuse report button.

Options:

Keep quiet
Run to other country
Kena hang

Which 1 u think they will pick

Hmmmmmmmmm

Kek

Jangan persoal.
Oh wait! This one okay to persoal I think.
Lol!

This post has been edited by Ewww!: Jan 16 2020, 11:32 PM

Is ok. We all going to hell anyway.

So are there any Malays who are known apostates (and still living in Malaysia)?

Ramai je la atheist Melayu kat mesia ni. Tak pelik langsung. Cuma ada sesetengah yang sibuk kutuk former religion diorang because idk why either mungkin tak tenang eventho dah keluar kek

Unfortunately, those zealots are far far louder with their kutukan because of their holier-than-thou attitude, and the atheist ones dare not respond. End up nons kena tempias because they support freedom to choose.

???

The atheists one are the louder bunch tbh
Even kutuk everything that has to do with religion eventho it's not related with people who hurted them
Honestly stop pick sides and hating too much its bad for your mental health

Hmm true also. This problem arises when eg parents divorced, the child followed the parent that was a convert but never practiced. They may revent to former religion, but the other parent that is a muslim may then claim and complicate matters.

Or when someone dies, maybe first buried non-islamic way, but then islamic authorities wanna claim the body and bury the islamic way.

Complex issue.

When do atheist muslims ever speak up against the zealots?

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-malaysia...s-idUSKBN1AN18T

Though not sure if they just keep quiet kah or publicly renounced.

They did. Also, atheist malays* or ex-muslim atheists*
Tbh I'm not one or them, and we already have issues within ourselves.

Based of sharia law..

keluar islam = hukum mati

Quite scary. Especially if takes just one parent to register their children like indira case.

Tak nak join ke?
Yang buat statement tu orang islam

Ayoh kita berpesta

From Wikipedia.


Lina Joy is a Malay convert from Islam to Christianity. Born Azlina Jailani on 28 July 1964[1] in Malaysia to Muslim parents of Javanese descent,[2] she converted at age 26. The Lina Joy case sparkled a debate about apostasy in Malaysia,[3] and her failed legal attempt to not have her religion assigned as "Islam" on her identity card is considered a landmark case in Malaysia.[4]

Court case
In 1998, Joy was baptised, and applied to have her conversion legally recognised by the Malaysian courts. Though her change of name was recognised in 1999 and so noted on her identity card, her change of religion was not (for lack of a Mahkamah Syariah[5] confirmation document); for this reason, she filed suit with the High Court in 1999, bypassing the Syariah Court (Islamic court). She later filed suit with the Federal Court in 2006.[6][7] Joy hopes to live openly as a Christian; she was forced to go into hiding by the publicity surrounding her case.[8]

In a majority verdict delivered on 30 May 2007, the Federal Court rejected her appeal.[9] Her appeal was dismissed 2-1 by Chief Justice Tun Ahmad Fairuz Sheikh Abdul Halim and Datuk Alauddin Mohd Sheriff. The ruling stated that "a person who wanted to renounce his/her religion must do so according to existing laws or practices of the particular religion. Only after the person has complied with the requirements and the authorities are satisfied that the person has apostatised, can she embrace Christianity.... In other words, a person cannot, at one's whims and fancies renounce or embrace a religion."[10]

The dissenting Chief Judge of Sabah and Sarawak Datuk Richard Malanjum wrote that "Hence, in my view this is tantamount to unequal treatment under the law. In other words it is discriminatory and unconstitutional and should therefore be struck down. For this reason alone, the relief sought for by the appellant should be granted, namely for a declaration that she is entitled to have an identity card in which the word 'Islam' does not appear."



Interesting case.

So she is now a practising Christian but with the word "Islam" on her Malaysian IC.

2.6b is not a sin?

this is good

What about converting from other religion like Buddhism or Hinduism to Islam?

Need to apply from Syariah Court and Civil Court?

Malas lah.

No need, as its a very easy & straight forward process.

By right it should be no compulsion in any religion

This post has been edited by prince12: Jan 17 2020, 07:47 AM

As muslim I agree with this especially on recent converts that convert to Islam ONLY because of marriage/love. It is a dishonest convert. You should only convert to Islam by heart (ie when you see truth in Islam)

As muslim I agree with this especially on recent converts that convert to Islam ONLY because of marriage/love. It is a dishonest convert. You should only convert to Islam by heart (ie when you see truth in Islam)

As muslim I agree with this especially on recent converts that convert to Islam ONLY because of marriage/love. It is a dishonest convert. You should only convert to Islam by heart (ie when you see truth in Islam)

As muslim I agree with this especially on recent converts that convert to Islam ONLY because of marriage/love. It is a dishonest convert. You should only convert to Islam by heart (ie when you see truth in Islam)

But that's not the case, the authority here just wants to convert as many. However most time we kenot talk about it cause it is anti/insult excuse.

https://www.borneotoday.net/mass-conversion...eges-pan-sabah/

what bodo is this
don't even know what Islam is
and pretending to be the saviour

This post has been edited by Teddysaur: Jan 17 2020, 08:11 AM

Hi, soon to be stoned.

Very easy & straight forward process to embrace the Islamic religion but it is virtually impossible to renounce it later. Caveat emptor !

Just because I believe something to be true I must force someone else also to believe its true even if they are firmly convinced that its not true. And then claim there is no compulsion.

How does this work actually?

Ledt they forget the history of war between Islam and murtadin..

There are many factions of Islam in Malaysia. try open your eyes.

1. PAS UMNO Islam - hidden racism malay supremacy behind Islam

2 Isma Islam - conservative Islam, likes to turn Malaysia into Taliban

4. PAN Islam - more tolerant Islam towards non muslims and believe in cooperation and friendship among citizens, but upholds Islam values strongly.

5. Liberal Islam like G25. Aligned with Wawasan 2020. Islam as personal choice and non imposing.

6. etc

Not murtaders?

I think we as non muslims better stop commenting on matters like these. Been there done that before, and even an attempt to have civil discussion ends up angry and defensive on the other side. Muslims themselves need to sort this out themselves. Anything we nons say or do can and will be made as though attacking Islam/muslims.

If there really was no compulsion
and there's freedom to be apostate
Amoi and minachi would face much rejection
Cos many guys would prefer awek

I think there should be proper laws to govern nons from our Muslim brethren. If an union is recognized under common law first, then it is only befitting that the dissolution of that union too be under common law too.

Once that dissolution of that union is properly ironed out under the common law to the satisfaction of both parties, only then can the interested party embrace another religion and subject oneself to shariah laws.

This post has been edited by Roman Catholic: Jan 17 2020, 08:32 AM

Why so many versions of Islam if they only believe in 1 book (quran) 1 prophet (muhammad - to be their greatest and last among a string of Jewish Biblical prophets) and 1 god (allah)?

it gave birth to modern day Turkish Republic after Altaturk renounce islamism and embraced secularism.

owait