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 LYN Christian Fellowship Thread Ver 15

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prophetjul
post Dec 12 2020, 09:33 AM

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Learn something about the Jewish understanding of FAITH(AMAN) instead of the modern understanding of 'altar calls' or mental assents.

QUOTE
The use of aman in this passage indicates that Abram did not just give mental assent to God's promise (Ge 15:5), but that he relied on that promise and made a personal commitment. In other words Abram's faith was not only cognitive (the mental act of acquiring knowledge) but also personal for he believed God’s word of promise (Cp the NT "commentary" on this OT use of "aman" -- Hebrews 11:8-note = His faith was the root of the fruit of obedience, which is a sign that one's faith is genuine saving faith and not just mental assent! {See obedience of faith and separate discussion of faith and obedience} Note the depth of his faith which led to the ultimate act of obedience in Heb 11:17, 18, 19-note) and he committed his soul to the God Who had revealed Himself. Considering that "amen" (truly, it is certain) is derived from "aman", it is as if Abram heard God's promise in Ge 15:5 and said "Amen!" Jesus repeatedly used the Hebrew word "amen" ("Truly") to express the trustworthiness and abiding certainty of His sayings.

Paul’s use of Genesis 15:6 in Ro 4:3-note, Ro 4:9-note, Ro 4:22-note and Galatians 3:6 demonstrates that this Old Testament verse is foundational for our understanding of what it means to "believe" God.

Caveat: The use of the Hebrew verb aman in Genesis 15:6 provides the key to how a man or woman was saved in Old Testament and that key is by grace through faith just as in the New Testament. OT saints were not saved by works of "righteousness" (Ro 3:20-note Ro 9:11-note Ro 11:5,6-note Eph 2:8, 9-note 2Ti 1:9-note, Titus 3:5-note), by keeping the Law (Dt 27:26, Gal 3:10, Jas 2:10) or by performing the prescribed sacrifices (He 9:9, 10-note, He 10:1, 2-note, He 10:11-note He 10:3-note explains in part the purpose of sacrifices).
https://www.preceptaustin.org/hebrew_definitions
prophetjul
post Dec 18 2020, 10:52 AM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Dec 18 2020, 10:17 AM)
According to the Bible

Faith  = confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see. (Hebrews 11:1)

I think it's rather important to see how the Bible defines faith.

This is further expressed in verse 3

3 By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God’s command, so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible.

That is part mental accent. So it has it's place. You cannot discard it, neither vilify it to demonize it.
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Dont stop at vs 1



QUOTE
2 For by it the elders obtained a good report.

3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

4 By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.

5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

7 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.

8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.

9 By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:

10 For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.

11 Through faith also Sara herself received strength to conceive seed, and was delivered of a child when she was past age, because she judged him faithful who had promised.

12 Therefore sprang there even of one, and him as good as dead, so many as the stars of the sky in multitude, and as the sand which is by the sea shore innumerable.

13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

14 For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country.

15 And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned.

16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

17 By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son,

18 Of whom it was said, That in Isaac shall thy seed be called:

19 Accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure.

20 By faith Isaac blessed Jacob and Esau concerning things to come.

21 By faith Jacob, when he was a dying, blessed both the sons of Joseph; and worshipped, leaning upon the top of his staff.

22 By faith Joseph, when he died, made mention of the departing of the children of Israel; and gave commandment concerning his bones.

23 By faith Moses, when he was born, was hid three months of his parents, because they saw he was a proper child; and they were not afraid of the king's commandment.

24 By faith Moses, when he was come to years, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter;

prophetjul
post Dec 18 2020, 11:32 AM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Dec 18 2020, 10:53 AM)
Also explain this in post# 2934. Also that Mental has it's place, we cannot demonize it, that is the point. Because it starts from there.
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i am not demonizing the mental asset in faith. After all, faith comes by hearing the word of God.
But the modern preachers teaches that faith is vs1. And the sheep thinks likewise, that they can go on sinning without any conscience and that their altar call acceptance justifies their salvation. That is crock and dangerous.
Preachers close blind eyes to rich business men committing corruption and adulteries and maintain that they are saved by their 'faith'in wealth churches. They are going to hell because of false teachings.

The scriptures is loaded with the acts of faith of the sages following their faith conversion. Anything less than that is dead. And the dead cannot raise the dead.

Any teaching which does not tell you to repent and revoke your past sinful lives, is HERESY.


prophetjul
post Dec 18 2020, 12:47 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Dec 18 2020, 11:45 AM)
Yes it starts from there so it has it's place.

As to the matter of sin, no contention there. I don't know why this is even brought up.
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Because false teachers like J Prince says otherwise. So faith without acts of repentance is DEAD. Reason its brought up.
So essentially works has a role in faith too. That is the Jewish understanding of faith.
prophetjul
post Dec 18 2020, 01:22 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Dec 18 2020, 01:08 PM)
Really? How did he say it? Just curious as how'd you picked it up.
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From Prince's book Destined to Reign

i. On pages 107-109, Joseph Prince teaches that 1 John 1:5-10 says Christians must only confess their sins once. Afterwards, they can ‘walk in the light´ and no longer need to confess. (Furthermore, because 1 John clearly tells people to confess, Prince says that it is addressed to Gnostics and not believers. He is forced to make this assumption or otherwise admit that 1 John tells believers to confess their sins whenever they are aware of them. I address this point below.)

ii. On page 107- ‘My friend, this is the assurance you can have today: The day you received Christ, you confessed all your sins once and for all.’

iii. On page 108, ‘When we understand this verse [John 1:7], we realize that even when we sin, we sin in the realm of the light! So, if we sin in the light, we are cleansed in the light, and we are kept in the light. This idea of us going into darkness when we sin is not from the Bible.´

iv. On pages 111-113, Prince talks about Paul’s instructions on communion in 1 Corinthians 11. He says that partaking in an ‘unworthy manner’ does not mean partaking with knowledge of sin, but rather partaking without acknowledging the payment of Jesus for our sin.


https://theelijahchallenge.org/study-of-jos...and-conviction/
prophetjul
post Dec 18 2020, 01:26 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Dec 18 2020, 01:13 PM)
Try to read your Bible carefully. Faith is defines as how Hebrews 11 says it.

The works that are accompanied is something that God works in you, not of yourself.

Try read  Philippians 2:13, I think you need to add that knowledge to your study.
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Stop trying to detract from the works described. Whether God works through you or whatever(that is not the discussion here), works is a demonstration of Living Faith.

Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
prophetjul
post Dec 18 2020, 01:28 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Dec 18 2020, 01:25 PM)
That is from Anti Website page, they only highlight certain snippet like most Hate website or Anti Website do. It give a bias or lopsided view. This works not only for J.P or anyone else.

Like I said before, have you take it from the entire Sermon Context to see of the whole preaching? Think if what I say is right.
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Anti because of Prince's heresy of Hyper grace.

Its not a sermon. Its in his book.
prophetjul
post Dec 18 2020, 01:54 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Dec 18 2020, 01:32 PM)
It is not a detract, you must acknowledge the main source. If you don't do that, then you will commit the error that falls back on your own human strength.

Even working out your Salvation must be rooted from God. If even this you do not know then this is something for you to investigate.
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You do not need to preach to me. Stay on the discussion of the word FAITH.
prophetjul
post Dec 18 2020, 01:55 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Dec 18 2020, 01:33 PM)
Try to understand what I've just said. You have to look at the entire of what was said otherwise , do you think it's fair?
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Its fair in his context of Confession and repentance and hyper grace.
prophetjul
post Dec 18 2020, 02:11 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Dec 18 2020, 02:07 PM)
I have to, it's related. You are so concern on works.
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I am. You have no understanding of AMAN faith. Keep to the subject and stop preaching.
prophetjul
post Dec 18 2020, 02:12 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Dec 18 2020, 02:08 PM)
I don't think so, the way the writer writes already tells me it's a lopsided bias view.
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As is Prince's heretical hyper grace bias.
prophetjul
post Dec 18 2020, 02:14 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Dec 18 2020, 02:12 PM)
I am keeping to it, You are the one who is trying to deflect God away who is the source.
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You are trying to detract from the topic of Faith. Heb 11:1 is your context.

This post has been edited by prophetjul: Dec 18 2020, 02:16 PM
prophetjul
post Dec 18 2020, 02:15 PM

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https://au.thegospelcoalition.org/article/t...tined-to-reign/

QUOTE
Use of the Bible

Prince often boasts that he reads the Bible in its context, but when it suits him, he ignores the context, as in 2 Peter 1 above. Generally he highlights Paul’s comments on grace, but not the good works and morality that are to follow. While he is right to say that if we appropriate grace correctly, it will not lead us into sin, he fails to see that commands and laws help guide us away from sin. If Prince were right that we make no effort and need no law, then several chapters and sections in the epistles would be irrelevant.



prophetjul
post Dec 18 2020, 02:20 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Dec 18 2020, 02:19 PM)
How can I detract when that is what Heb 11:1 says?  laugh.gif

If anything u are the one ignoring the source of life and power where the Christians are empowered from.
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Heb 11:1 is all you have for your minute understanding of faith.

You have a serious problem of pinching verses from their context and displaying them to support your theories, much like Prince.
prophetjul
post Dec 18 2020, 02:32 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Dec 18 2020, 02:21 PM)
Yes, Exactly the problem. I think his church does a lot of good works. Proving the writer and you wrong.
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See who you deceptively change the subject matter?
Subject matter was hyper grace with Prince without repentance and confession.

Well, Jesus did warn about workers too; "i did not know you"

What is "good works"?

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

This post has been edited by prophetjul: Dec 18 2020, 02:38 PM
prophetjul
post Dec 18 2020, 02:34 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Dec 18 2020, 02:23 PM)
No Hebrews 11:1 defines Faiths as what it is.

Works is the result of God working in you.

They are related but very 2 different meaning in definition.

We have to stick to what define Faith and Hebrews 11:1 defines it as it is.
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The whole of Heb 11 defines faith, not just Heb 11:1. Thats how myopic your reading of faith is. ONE single verse.
prophetjul
post Dec 18 2020, 02:48 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Dec 18 2020, 02:44 PM)
U quoted this in your previous link, look at the bold. I answered that, so how is that deceptively changing the subject when you the one who posted this.
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Actually i was pointing to the taking verses out of context. laugh.gif
But Prince's morality?
prophetjul
post Dec 18 2020, 02:49 PM

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QUOTE(desmond2020 @ Dec 18 2020, 02:45 PM)
So UW, if bible is not talking about salvation, then what it talk about? Live like a king on earth?
So now, show me the faith without work please
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Like Prince and his Dolce and Gabana clothing!
prophetjul
post Dec 18 2020, 02:58 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Dec 18 2020, 02:53 PM)
You are referring to the works that follows, isn't it? And is not Philippians 2:13 true?

Yet Hebrews 11:1 tells us, that is what Faith is.

It starts from your believe and what follows after that believe, has to born from the source of God.
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Heb11:1 is not a complete description of faith. Unless you are subscribing to the mental ascent theory.
The whole of Heb 11 describes faith. Don't be short changed.

Phil 2:13 is ONE single verse.

Judas hung himself.
prophetjul
post Dec 18 2020, 03:03 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Dec 18 2020, 03:02 PM)
heb 11:1 define what Faith, what follows after that you need to understand where is the empowerment that comes from.

This is not short change but understanding the entire Bible.

If anything you're the one who is short changing it.

You cannot say Phil 2:13 is ONE single verse.  It has to do and very related to all there is.
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Hebrews 11 does not speak about the source of empowerment. It describes faith. Not just verse 1.
Understand the whole bible? You missed out on the rest of Hebs 11, for crying out loud! laugh.gif


» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


YOU missed 39 verses on faith!

This post has been edited by prophetjul: Dec 18 2020, 03:05 PM

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